30 So. Portland In Contract 'Significantly Over' Asking

Well, 5 larger floors on South Portland is very different than 4 smaller floors on Washington Avenue . . . one is bigger, and in prime Fort Greene, the other is smaller, and not Fort Greene at all.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:34 AM

Yet another broker plug. Congrats to the broker, though - kind of like the last person on the helicopter in Saigon.

Read the article in the WSJ this morning?

The question is no longer when prices begin to decline, but by how much.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:36 AM

take a look at the comment thread from when this house was first profiled.

notice how many naysayers there are.

i'd like at least ONE of those people who said it would never sell, or that AY was causing people to leave the neighborhood to step up to the plate and admit they were dead wrong.

anyone?

anyone?

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:36 AM

it certainly is very funny to read those previous negative comments in the face of this sale!

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:44 AM

I think part of the reason why the FG market is still strong is because the nabe gets better and more convenient every day. We're getting a butcher for christ sake.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:53 AM

a butcher! in a neighborhood?! wow!

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:05 PM

Lets wait and see when this finally closes. Pardon me if I am a bit skeptical about taking a broker's word for "significantly above asking"

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:05 PM

SPECIAL HOUSE, RIGHT TIME, nothing more.

1.) This house was one of the nicest houses on the market at that time, or since. So, it was a special property. Not all houses are as nice, or on such a nice block.

2.) The owner was lucky to have sold it right before the crunch. Had it been 2 months later,it would have sold for asking, but NOT for significantly over asking.

3.) The Corcoran listing on 344 Carlton avenue also sold for over-asking at around the same time. Again, special house, right time.
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/05/house_of_the_da_315.php

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:12 PM

This house went into contract in September. I was following it. There wasn't even talk of a mortgage crisis then, believe it or not.

To Z: I've done that with archived HOTD. You can link directly to Property Shark and see sales data. You'd be surprised how many of those HOTD sold for a bit under asking price.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:19 PM

There is NO comparison between 30 South Portland and the Washington Ave house. Absolutely no comparison. Aside from the fact that 30 SP went into contract before our little recession, I would definitely say that if you have a special property, it will do well in ANY market. So to all the potential sellers of really nice houses: put it on the market! Don't wait. You'll still get a great price.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:41 PM

Brooklynnative -

here's the link to then WSJ article

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119638554201808816.html

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:44 PM

credit crunch started in august

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:57 PM

12:19 -- you're wrong about the mortgage climate in September -- crisis was in full swing, credit was tight, rates were up. I went into contract on June 15 and closed in early August, and watched rates creep up a point and a half in the interim, all because of the mortgage issue. Congress held hearings on this issue in April -- it's been stewing for a long time

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:59 PM

thank you, 12:57.

i remember hearing a ton of credit crunch fallout in august.

people just can't admit they are wrong on this website.

ever.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:01 PM

12:57--no effects were really visible until around October, and the shit didn't hit the fan until later. There was no angst on the street then.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:04 PM

sorry, but you are wrong, 1:04.

here's one article of THOUSANDS in August about what was happening then...it began in July actually.

http://populareconomicsweekly.blogspot.com/2007/08/week-of-august-13-2007credit-crunch.html

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:12 PM

from august 11

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/business/apee-fed.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:16 PM

Our money is worthless.
Brownstones in Fort Greene are selling for three million dollars!
Your savings are worthless.
A million dollars does not buy much and yet it is still real real hard to make or save a million dollars.
The aristocracy has all the money.
The rest of us will eat dirt.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:19 PM

you want a butchers in the neighborhood, not a butcher!

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:19 PM

POPULAR PERCEPTION, that's what I'm talking about. In August and September, there was no collective angst or panic, as there is now and has been for the past month or so.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:25 PM

If we stop and think about it our dollar is REALLY WEAK. a 2 million dollar house to us is a little under 1 million Pounds or 1.5 million euro dollars... The only people that can really make out well are Europeans and Asians. What happend to this county???

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:30 PM

it hasn't been a month, 1:25.

maybe in your tiny circle in manhattan it has been a month, but most AMERICANS have been feeling this since AUGUST.

look outside yourself for 2 seconds, if you are able.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:33 PM

whats your point? 1:30?

take your 2 million dollars and buy 25 homes in Argentina.

everything is relative.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:37 PM

I think they prefer Euros in Argentina.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:42 PM

1:33--you're taking things quite personally, and making assumptions about me. What's your problem? POPULAR PERCEPTION of the market and the economy is what generally informs sellers' prices and buyers' willingness or ability to pay a certain dollar amount, right? While there were rumblings and warning signs before, the shit had not hit the fan in popular perception until more recently. August and October-November were VERY different time periods. Even brokers will cop to that. Get a life.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:44 PM

Pretty good intelligence that this house went into contract at slightly above $3mm. Also heard, from a less reliable source, that the house is actually being acquired by two families that will share the space - you may recall that the house is currently configured as two duplexes and one floor through apt. It did go into contract in September in the midst of the credit crisis, however, the public perception of the credit crisis especially outside of real estate and finance circles in NYC had yet to really set in. I think there is a much greater sense of fear and risk in the marketplace now than there was when this deal was signed. I am not saying that someone wouldn't step up to pay $3mm for this house today, but it might be a tougher sell. Yet again, there aren't many brownstones of this calibur and on a great block, so maybe there will always be a strong bid for these types of houses.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:49 PM

i was just in argentina.

they most certainly still work on the peso system.

you can buy a 1 bedroom in the best part of town for 100K.

the city is amazing, if you've never been. more vibrant i'd say than new york, even.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:50 PM

1:44, if by "POPULAR PERCEPTION", you mean people who bury their heads in the sands for 3 months at a time, then you are correct. If you mean the Street, or borrowers in general, you're living in la-la land. American Home Mortgage stopped funding loans – to borrowers – on August 2 (and declared bankruptcy a few days later) – this happened literally at thousands of closing tables across the country (many other lenders followed suit).

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:53 PM

400K OVER ASKING???

Can I ask why?

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:56 PM

Argentine financial experts are counseling people to save in Euros, have been for some time.

Buenos Aires apartments are getting more and more expensive because of the foreigners coming in and buying. Also, there is lots of crime and insecurity in Buenos Aires, so your 100K purchase comes with a trade-off. Foreigners are targeted along with moneyed locals.

I am from Argentina.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:59 PM

I think real estate brokers are on edge. I don't know how they can even sleep at night.
The economy looks so ominous and the fall of the American dollar is unprecedented. Insurance companies are not renewing residential policies in Brooklyn and pretty soon folks will need to dip into their retirement accounts to pay for heating fuel.
A rent-regulated apartment is looking better and better all the time.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:00 PM

1:49 is spot on.

Also, I too heard the price was just over $3 million. They really wanted to break that mark to keep up with 344 Carlton and that renovated Washington Park house that had both passed the $3mm number.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:09 PM

"pretty soon folks will need to dip into their retirement accounts to pay for heating fuel."

umm...i believe the survey taken by brownstoner said something like 87% of people who read this site make over 100K and tons own brownstones.

you really think they can't afford their heat bill? wake up. we are talking about a 3 million dollar home here.

i'm not saying there aren't people in brooklyn who are poor and that there aren't a ton of people who are scrimping on next to nothing, but they aren't reading your post right now.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:10 PM

Personally,

I don't want to live in a place where Nazi's fled. Keep you 100G one bedrooms.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:10 PM

i call bull shit on 1:49 and 2:09.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:11 PM

1:59 here, let me correct myself. It's not just moneyed people in Buenos Aires that are targeted, and that's the sad thing. One of the most recent incidents was a senior citizen, a pensioner, who was knocked over and killed by two motorcycle bandits, all for a small sum of money he had just withdrawn from an ATM. And before that a newspaper stand owner was kidnapped and held for a ransom of about $US400. And then there are all the other more high profile kidnappings. I love Buenos Aires, it's my home, but the situation is dire for many people, cheap apartments for foreigners and all.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:22 PM

Rehab, how did you get to see the washington ave place head to toe? I was told by the broker that they hadn't even seen inside the rental on the 3rd floor. Lazy bitch didn't know anything about it and wouldn't even bother to climb the stairs to show the upper floors or basement.

For those looking at the photos and admiring the mantle mirrors, they don't belong. Their frames have been hacked at to get them to sort of fit.

I think 2 trees still has it in the times for the original price.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:22 PM

i heard crime (especially kidnappings) were mainly centered around certain poorer outlying areas of buenos aires.

i spent two weeks there...exploring the recoleta, palermo, and many other neighborhoods in the downtown area, and it felt as safe as the west village. at all hours.

i was enthralled with the city. i know a lot of people are still suffering there, but the city really feels amazingly alive, despite that.

more alive than nyc.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:28 PM

2:28: Crime is alive and well in Recoleta, Palermo, San Telmo, Puerto Madero, etc. A lot of the muggings and kidnappings occur right there, in downtown Buenos Aires. I wasn't going to cite this personal anecdote, but here goes: my friend's brother, a young Argentine yuppie who had just gotten promoted, left work on Santa Fe & Esmeralda and was attacked and thrown into a mini van. The mini van drove around the city for 2 hours until his sister met them at another corner and delivered $10K, which she scrounged from family and friends. This was at 5pm. They were told not to call the police or publicize it afterwards because he'd be killed if they did. It's unfortunate and very sad. It's a beautiful city, you're right, and vibrant. But its economic problems are there and always will be.

Regardless, many tourists have said they feel safe. Supposedly the police are told to focus their efforts on the tourists so as to not have it negatively affect the tourism industry and perception of Argentina. I continue to go there, to visit my family and friends, and I feel safe as well. Just be alert and mindful.

Sorry for the major digression. 3

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:56 PM

2:11. Let's wait for the closing and the public records info and then get back to me--I CAN'T WAIT. I'm 2:09.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:58 PM

Not a surprise the property is selling for over asking. It looks nice.

The house *does* have some *issues* the new buyers cannot be aware of.

It does look great cosmetically and has all the fluff/indicators of privilege (in the lower duplex)…though the kitchen has almost no natural light.

This is the perfect time for the owner to sell considering his age and the market.

I wonder if the new owners will reconfigure the place...

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:09 PM

i also was in the washington ave home in spring time - and saw all - the floors. it needs a ton of work - an old lady was living there looked like she was not going anywhere. when i saw it the upper floors were a mess... her apt as well - its been on the market for awhile... i think i was there durng the apple blossom festival..

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:14 PM

What are these "issues" that keep getting brought up in regards to 30 South Portland?? It comes up a lot whenever this house is brought up on different threads. Was it built on top of a cemetery? Is it structurally unsound? Is it next to an SRO? What?

Agreed the owner sold in the nick of time.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:19 PM

2:09 - I believe 344 Carlton actually traded at $2.5mm although there was a rumor in the market that it was selling at or above $3mm. Also, the little known secret is that the Washington Park house sold for like $175,000 above the sale price listed in the public record. The $175,000 was what the buyers paid for the hideous drapes and other furnishings. Of course, the true point of the maneauver was to limit capital gains tax and provide cash to the sellers who were going through a divorce. I hope the IRS is not on here...

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:26 PM

The heating bills, insurance, r.e.taxes, water and sewer, all are skyrocketing. if you think you can pay that on top of even a modest mortgage on $100,000 a year you're dreaming. 100,000 is just the wrong amount in NYC. It is too much for subsidized housing but not enough to buy a house in brownstone Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:27 PM

I hope the buyer put aside the bucks to restore the brownstone facade. It looks discolored and crackled. And it's a landmark regulated district!

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:32 PM

i said at least 100K. read please.

no one reading this website is hurting to pay their heating bills.

perhaps wondering whether they can afford the wife a second bmw for xmas, but not heat.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:33 PM

i'm guessing someone who just spent 3 million can afford to do whatever the hell they'd like to the facade.

probably even gild it in 24K gold leaf, if they so choose.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:37 PM

"apple blossom festival"?
"calibur"?

What a bunch on this site.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:52 PM

DO YOU REALLLY WANT TO KNOW what is being referred to here as "ISSUES"? Truth *may* set you free...

The new buyers will probably figure it out eventually. If there are two families buying, they may be able to afford the upgrades and repairs needed...then again, dual ownership may make it harder to deal with these issues.

Granted, the place looks pretty good. The owner has a decent sense of generic style...

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:11 PM

i'm sure a home inspection will uncover said issues.

stop being such a moron, 4:11.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:15 PM

This house sold at the common sense price. It's not the price you might think is right, and honestly, none of us can call it, no matter how good we think we are at our armchair-appraising skills. The market has spoken. It might seem astonishing, but the fact is that as soon as a gorgeous area so near manhattan gets recognized as safe -- ie. drug dealers no longer setting up shop each night at Dekalb and South Portland -- and there's two coffee shops with good brew, that's all it takes for any successful young person with a budding family to want to move to Fort Greene. There is no competition in the city in terms of beauty/transportation/price.

So rage as you might against the craziness of these prices, but please try to see things in context, and understand why people might even go as far as getting together and buying a brownstone to share. Not much amazing real estate out there, and a lot of people willing to do whatever it takes to have a nice place to call home. Ain't nothin wrong with that.

The only pet peeve I have with newcomers is the flippers and speculators out there. But the vibe I get from the newcomers in my neighborhood these days (perhaps because the prices are no longer bargains) is that they're moving in for the long haul. And that's what I want to see. People setting up homes and actually caring about where they live.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:16 PM

i agree, 4:16.

i moved to park slope last year...bought a place...not a whole house, but an apt. and i plan to stay...perhaps forever.

i absolutely love it.

i have witnessed the same among my newer neighbors. they are really setting up for the long haul, it seems.

all this talk about home prices depreciating, while fun to talk about...does not affect me one ounce.

i ain't movin anytime soon.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:22 PM

They should put in a little pneumatic elevator. I've lived on the fifth floor of a house, and unless you're a mountain climber, it's hell.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:30 PM

4:16 and 4:22. Totally irrelevant. I'm looking for a house in which to make my home, long-term, in Brooklyn. That does not mean I'll pay ANYTHING. So, this is a forum in which to discuss the market and specific properties in the market.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:46 PM

I didn't realize you were the one to decide what is allowed and now allowed to be discussed on this forum, 4:46.

You suck!

How's that for specifics on the market?

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:54 PM

4:46 pm, your definition of "discuss" sounds like Castro's definition of democracy.

Also, your definition of "anything" is kinda vague.

What would YOU pay? Where? For what? And how long would you consider your price "relevant" in your home-shopping endeavor? Until your dream house came along for your dream price?

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 5:01 PM

4:15...so much you know about home inspections! Talk about "moron"...please don't bother using epithets.

Now, there are things, in fact, an inspection, even a really good one, would NOT find but wait until it storms!

The house never got a full reno or any kind of full update. It's been a cobbling together of work over the years, much of it cosmetic or DIY. I would NOT guarantee the mechs which will probably lead to real expenses for new owners who don't feel comfortable living with them the way they are. The contractor-built extension has some issues as well.

This is not a gut reno and not even an "all new mechanicals" type of house like L's house on the park.

I would want the entire elec. system redone.

The

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 5:08 PM

So now two families are doubling up to buy a 3 million dollar brownstone in Fort Greene.
There's a mini series there.
A murder mystery because someone is bound to kill someone else in that scenario.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 5:15 PM

my info is that the house has closed already and the price as $3 million or just a bit over.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 5:34 PM

5:15
Hysterical!
Write up a treatment and we'll talk next week!

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 5:39 PM

This is a big 5 story house on a prime block. What do you think it would fetch if you moved it to center Park Slope on a park block? How about Brooklyn Heights a block or two off the promenade. This isn't a rhetorical question. I have oftened wondered what the markdown is, if any, for Fort Greene especially as compared to the Heights. What do you all think? I'm thinking $3,750,000 or more in Park Slope (they don't really have 5 story houses there do they, housing stock is newer by I'd guess a couple of decades so a bit less grand in general architecturally.) And for Brooklyn Heights I'd guess north of $5,000,000. What do brokers on here think?

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 6:48 PM

@2:22 PM

If I remember correctly the broker told me when I was viewing the property that they couldn't show the rental because it was occupied by an older woman. That if there was real interest they could show it on a second look. A guy was there that took me through the house leaving the broker on the first floor to help someone else.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 7:20 PM

It is difficult to compare Fort Greene and Brooklyn Heights. They are so different.
One is all nice silver and good manners and the other is all funky music and blond dredlocks.
In forty years, if Fort Greene is still a desirable place to live, and I would guess it would be, the comparison may be easier.
Brooklyn Heights is like parts of the Upper East Side. There is a flinty waspiness there that is true to form. Nothing makes Heights residents happier than to hear that their neighborhood is boring. They have been working assiduously at that for years, like a formal garden. That's why the area is so desirable. It is a real place, not a flash in the pan. It knows its place in the scheme of things, and that place is pretty good.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 8:10 PM

stoner,
i think it stinks that you let people use words like moron and asshole and the F word, and yet you censor-nix my perfectly charming essay on comparing Brooklyn Heights and Fort Greene.
What gives?
you don'tlike the word waspy? dredlocks?
I'm scratching my head here.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 9:00 PM

it wasn't censored. It's part of the new review system, which sucks. Now there is no incentive for me to obsessively check brownstoner all day like I said I did in that survey.

Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:08 PM

there are lovely 5 story brownstones on berkeley place in park slope. north side of the street. they are gorgeous, but there's no way they would sell for 3.75 million. i'm guessing more like 3 million.

that's why i believe this house at 3 million was a little overpriced. but someone bought it, so obviously it was the right price for someone. or two someones. good deal for them. it's a beauty.

Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 3:26 PM

You guys are just making me sick. A few years back, none of you guys would have had the guts to even drive through FG. As we know, everything can turn very quickly. As long as the people who bought this house can afford paying their mortgage, who cares!! Like all of the nay sayers, I'm hoping everything goes downhill and all those idiots loose their shirt, Corcoran goes bankrupt and everything goes back to gettho style living...

Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 3:36 PM

``all this talk about home prices depreciating, while fun to talk about...does not affect me one ounce.''

I think people will begin to be concerned when the prices of their houses drop below what they actually owe for it. That and lenders then finding outstanding mortgages now 'unsecured' may make them call those loans in if the 'fine print' allows that. It's going to happen it's just a matter of when and how far the bottom is to drop.

Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 4:05 PM

i don't care if the price of my house goes below what i owe on it because i bought within my means.

i could not find a studio similar to mine in north park slope to rent for 1500...which is the price of my mortgage and maint.

given tax incentives, really i'm probably spending half on what a studio in manhattan would cost to rent, and i love my pad, my neighborhood and plan to stay here at least 5 years.

i'm pretty sure there are others in my situation who bought in the last few years and plan to make brooklyn home for a while and really don't care if our homes prices dip by 15% or so.

i never had a year where my rent didn't go UP when i was doing that, so i don't mind having the same "rent" for the next 29 more years...

Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 4:32 PM

What are you talking about? Not having the guts to drive through Fort Greene? We have been living there on and off for 20 years. Maybe WE were the scarier ones way back in the day though. Used to be everybody in the neighborhood automatically said hi to people as they walked around for their strolls. Really. Now it's not so automatic unless you are a familiar looking face. I think this is just because a lot of the old-timers have gone up to the pearly gates though. I am sure if they could find a way to read a blog up there many of them would be laughing as much as we are when we read such silliness. That said a lot of my distant relatives from Long Island, as well as friends who live in Brooklyn Heights, seem a bit out of touch about what life is like in Fort Greene. That's okay. The UWS used to be hipper and more dangerous in the 1980's as well. But nobody calls it fronting do they?

Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 10:16 PM