StreetLevel: Papa John's Takes a Slice of Sunset Park

god...wonder if they deliver to park slope!!?

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 2:35 PM

Did anyone notice this quote from the article:

"If we get short on cheese or tomatoes, we go to him or he comes to us,” said Gino Campese, the owner of Scotti’s Pizza. “When it’s time to raise prices, we get together. There’s room for everybody. But not for Papa John’s.”

Gino is admitting to price fixing!

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 2:42 PM

I think it's very weak and cowardice to start a petition against competing businesses. Very anti-free-market. A mom/pop laundrymat in Clinton Hill (on Green betw. Cambridge and Grand) tried to do this against Cleanrite (Fulton betw. Cambridge/Grand) a few years back. Their machines were ailing, the lady was rude, the door was always locked, etc. That's why they folded. Put all your petition energy into getting your shit together. You think Grimaldi's would give a rat's ass if a Papa Johns opened next door? Nothing drives quality like competition.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 2:57 PM

yes, actually i think grimaldi's would care a lot if papa john's opened next door.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 3:01 PM

I don't see why the people would bother signing a petition. If they don't like Papa John's, then don't go! With the price of a slice of pizza escalating, I appreciate more shops that can help lower prices through competition and make it harder for people like Gino to fix prices.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 3:15 PM

Its not cowardice--a petition is a community organizing to maintain the businesses it wants in the community--nothing wrong with that. Individual people can decide not to frequent Papa John's or they can decide to make a collective effort. As for being "anti-free market" there is nothing "free" about letting chain restaurants into your neighborhood if you don't want them. Chains have the ability to lower their prices to compete against local competition and then raise them to make up for it later. You're asking long-time small businesses to fight a much stronger competitor with one hand tied behind their back.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 3:48 PM

Johnny's doesn't need to worry -- they offer a superior slice.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 4:03 PM

I dont understand the opposition. If you offer a quality product that you stand by, why would you worry about competition moving in? Your loyal customers will still support you unless the competition offers better pricing and better tasting product.People have different tastes. Some people like Papa Johns while others like the old fashioned type pizza. I am sure there is room for both.Papa Johns might have a more extensive menu including the buffalo wings etc but I am sure the pizzeria sells more than pizza also.Good luck to all .

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 4:09 PM

Time will tell if everyone feels the same in the community because if they have no customers Papa Johns will close.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 4:11 PM

Is Papa John Johny's father?

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 4:20 PM

I can understand the same block or across the street, but RIGHT NEXT DOOR? How much pizza can even New Yorkers eat??

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 4:28 PM

"I'm starting a petition to stop a Gap from opening because I'd rather buy $1.99 underwear from a rack sitting on Fifth
Avenue."

I think Gap already heard about your petition and cancelled their plans for a store on 5th avenue in Sunset Park. Whew.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 5:11 PM

People will go here.

Just like they go to Starbucks, even though they have bad coffee.

Johnny's Pizza I guarantee you is better than Papa John's but for some unknown reason to me, people will still go to Papa John's.

I wish I knew why.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 5:43 PM

back with the asses again rehab...

yeah, i love em too.

;-)

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 5:56 PM

you know dere are guyzzzz down dere dat cud take papa john's out in one shot ...
at least take the air out of their tires...

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 6:31 PM

I loves me the butter garlic dipping sauce for the leftover crusts that comes with Papa John's pizza. I prefer to support privately owned businesses too. But I vote with my pocketbook as a consumer. I don't want some big brother coming in to crush competition. Ridiculous.

Why not protest the opening of the 500th sushi place on 5th Ave in Park Slope instead? There is at least one (or 2, no joke) Japanese restaurant on every single block of 5th Ave now.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 6:43 PM

There's a Papa John's opening on Rogers Avenue in PLG, too -- I'm not thrilled with it, but at least there isn't another pizza store on Rogers in that area. Right next door? What are they thinking?

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 8:13 PM

From my experience, mom and pop pizza joints are always better than Pizza Hut, Domino's or Papa John's. The national franchise pizza SUCKS!

gary

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 9:21 PM

I'm boycotting Papa John's.
They don't have any brothers on the walls.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 9:21 PM

No real New Yorker would be caught dead eating Papa John's or Domino's.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 10:06 PM

That Papa John's won't be worth a mouth full of Johnny's hairy fuck-sauce one AY is built.

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 10:17 PM

Some of you hit the point on the head - competition is great, improves quality and lowers prices, but - and here (as Pee Wee Herman would say) "is the big butt" - chains can suck up a loss until they drive the mom & pop under and then they "own" the neighborhood. I saw it with Home Depot - they killed each of our local lumber yards and now we get - awful quality, terrible service and high prices.

Johnny's supported the community through our rough years of gang warfare, our slowed economies - they provided a service, they donated (and still do) to community youth groups...it is sad that the problem seems complex.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 7:17 AM

Like or not, there is no reward for weathering the difficult years. This sounds like a tenants who thinks they should be permitted to stay in their apartments just because they lived there before their neighborhood gentrified. The world is not a union - seniority counts for very little.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 9:22 AM

I am against this, as it further represents the creeping homogenization of NYC, achieved in part through national/international chain stores.

Most of Manhattan and much of Queens have already been lost, Brooklyn isn't doing much better (anyone been to Montague Street lately? ugh)

It is very rare that a mom and pop succeeds against a chain. Pizza places are usually an exception though.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 9:24 AM

9:22 am--

But the world should be a union. And I am for supporting attempts to make it more union-like and less dog-eat-dog as much as possible.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 10:36 AM

that's called communism, 10:36.

you live in the wrong country.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 11:12 AM

Don't I know it. But it's home.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 12:15 PM

The only people who think it isn't a big deal about Papa John's moving in are people who have no concept of how chain stores like this one chip away at a neighborhood's identity. Why do you think more than 2,200 members of the community signed the petition? It used to be that you'd never see a chain store in Brooklyn-- now they are everywhere. And the only people who don't care are the people who grew up elsewhere-- places where strip malls and IHOPS were the norm, not mom and pop businesses. Johnny's is on my corner, and I definitely don't want a Papa John's there.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 2:34 PM

10pm is right, this is a franchise and as a franchise it IS owned by a mom and pop. It's probably someone newly emigrated from another country who didn't know better. Certain immigrant groups love the big chain franchises because it seems like a sure success. But chains are not successful in every neighborhood. They didn't do the research and they didn't ask successful business people nearby for their opinions on the idea. Both huge mistakes, because a boycott even a small one, can be enough to put a new place under.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 3:04 PM

@:34 I must disagree I find it is 'newcomers' who tend to be more upset about the opening of national retail stores - but either way

1st as previously stated this is most likely a franchise (5x more francise stores then co owned) - so in reality this is "mom & pop", and as a franchisee likely has less ability to cut prices than the non-chain because franchisees must buy from 'preferred suppliers' that are mandated by the parent co. Additionally there are all sorts of fees, promotions and costs that dont effect a non-chain pizzeria.
Next the franchisee has the same costs that any non-chain has - labor, fuel, rent etc... and the franchisee doesnt have any deeper pockets (often shallower) to sustain losses then anyone else.

Finally the most important part is that (thankfully) an item like Pizza isn't purely a commodity product (i.e. price is only one factor in buying decision). And besides the fact that Papa Johns stinks, the non-chain can compete on taste, service, decor and by being able to adjust his product mix and introduce new products in a much faster and 'localized' way then any franchise or chain ever could.

The reason why people know this is no big deal is b/c NYC Pizza is amazing and even if Papa John offered better prices, they just can't compete on taste.
The perfect example of this is Lassen & Hennings on Montague St. They have withstood Burger King, Blimpies, Subway and I am sure more to come. Why? Because rather then competing on price they compete with taste service and selection - and they keep winning.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 3:15 PM

sure 3:04 pm and to add to that just because someone mighht be an immigrant to this country trying to make it, doesn't also mean they aren't a big jerk trying to put a longtime member of the community out of business.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 3:17 PM

To 3:17 and others: the downside to increased numbers of customers with more money to spend in these improving neighborhoods, will be the arrival of new competition. Face that fact and get over it. The old timer businesses can either whine about it, or adjust their business to the new arrivals and become even more successful. They can choose to see the changes in the neighborhood as an opportunity. At least the smart ones can. I've seen a lot of longtime businesses do this. Expand their seating area, expand their menu. To their great benefit.

Sadly though, we see a lot of entitled whining in NYC. Way more than I've ever seen in any other city I've lived in.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 5:04 PM

Papa John's will charge like 7.99 for a large pizza.

Mom and Pops more like 15 bucks for a large.

Sure it tastes better than Propa John's, but this area of town has young people who will recognize the Papa name and order it for delivery because its cheap.

Posted by: guest at October 10, 2007 5:10 PM

and to the person who made a comment about price fixing you missed the point (when pizza prices go up ... they go up everywhere)

The anti papa johns is due to the fact that they opened RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 12:52 AM

i think what papa john did is wrong.rigth next door? i wonder why not next door to domino?

Posted by: guest at November 22, 2007 12:41 AM