Scooter Sweep in the Slope

I would rather have them park on the sidewalk than the street where they take up lots of space where cars could park.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 9:45 AM

scooter owners pay taxes, have license plates and have a right to take advantage of free parking on the street like cars. but unfortunately, many car owners are absolutely menacing to scooters. they either drag them out of their way, causing damage or leaving them in a spot where they're more likely to get hit by other cars, or just knock them over and drive away. i have a small frame vespa '76 (takes up SO little room) that gets knocked over about once a month on 3rd street. when i first bought it i made the mistake of parking it on the street with just the front tire pulled up on the side walk so i could chain it. some incredibly uptight neighbors kept calling the police and getting me ticketed, just because one lousy tire was on the side walk next to the light pole absolutely not in anyone's way. now i park on the street, with nothing on the side walk but my scooter is showing the damage from careless, thoughtless drivers who knock it over constantly.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:05 AM

In a city where traffic is so bad and parking is at such a premiums it sure seems that more should be done to encourage the use of scooters (and bicycles). Instead it seems that the city actively discourage their use.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:08 AM

Not just scooters, motorbikes are treated like garbage by car drivers (SUV drivers especially). My 250lb 400cc "scooter" got knocked over by a car and he just left it and drove off.

The city needs assigned scooter/bike parking areas. In one or two car spots you can have over 10 scooters/bikes. Bonus points for a rack at the edge that can be used to anchor them. They get 80+ mpg, and are much less polluting and take much less road space when parked, and when mobile. Why are they actively discouraged by the city? we even have to pay almost identical ez-pass fees as cars!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:20 AM

as a motorcycle (and former scooter) owner, I say we don't need dedicated scooter parking. I can find a place, legally, for my bike on any block at any time. It's why I have a bike in the first place? And do they sometimes get knocked over? Sometimes, altho hardly once a month (you are parking in spots way too tight!). More like once or twice a year. That's the price of doing business IMO -- it's like complaining that your bumper gets scraped if you park on the street.

I'm annoyed too but seeing those bikes in the photo like that. So entitled.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:21 AM

to all the scooter and motorcycle owners out there, I say we find out where Bren lives and t.p. his house.

since when is a scooter an eyesore? Do you consider bicycles chained to a pole or tree (usually in groups) an eyesore as well?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:26 AM

almost identical? you mean "less"?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:34 AM

Whatever problems scooter people have, they shouldn't ever be allowed to park on the sidewalk.
No way. No how.
One wheel, two wheels or four wheels. Keep 'em on the street where they belong.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:42 AM

sidewalks are for people. dedicated bike, scooter spots would be better.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:42 AM

Scooters need to be locked to something - they can be lifted easily and thrown in a truck/van and stolen.
As long as they are not blocking pedestrian traffic, what harm are they causing on the street.

I've had people pick up my 500lb motorcycle from legal street parking and put it on the sidewalk so they could take my parking space. I've also had hundreds of dollars of damage done to my bike from people knocking it over when the park. Even with all that my motorcycle stays parked in the street.
My scoot is a different story - it is locked to a pole on the sidewalk.

In Philadelphia, many streets in downtown have 1 or 2 dedicated two wheel parking spaces every few blocks. There is no reason why NYC can't do the same.

You also have to remember, many parking lots will not take 2 wheeled vehicles at all, so choices are limited.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:47 AM

I like the enlightened idea, but the fact is this nonsense is to generate revenue for the city.

If the issue was sidewalk space, an occassional warning would do the trick, or maybe a ticket. Impounding is just to get the cash.

If you leave your bike on the street, it will get hit, knocked over, dragged.

I'd rent a space for my bike, but all the garages have been replaced by glassy condos.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:49 AM

Funny thing is- niether of the scooters in the picture is locked to a sign or lightpost-so by the logic here in posts one could easily throw them into the middle of the street.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:57 AM

I would love to pay for parking...if I could find a garage or lot that will take my bike. I have a vintage Lambretta and hate to leave it on the street or sidewalk. It's my main transportation and my baby. Unfortunately most lots won't take scooters. It's not so easy going into a strange neighborhood and trying to find secure parking for a bike that weighs less than 200lbs. I wish the city would assign dedicated motorcycle and scooter parking.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:02 AM

So because scooter owners have various problems, that gives them the right to hijack a public sidewalk?
That is ridiculous.
It's not their space, period!
Find a place to park it or ride the subway like everybody else.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:03 AM

As a driver who wants to ride my bike more but gets discouraged by asshole drivers...

...I vote at least two bike-scooter lockup spots, in regular parking spots, on every block. Everyone should own a bike or a scooter who wants one, and the parking should be as free and hassle-less as car parking is here.

It is too easy to drive in this city. Drivers are the entitled ones.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:06 AM

Scooters have worse emissions than automobiles. They are worse for the environment that a car. People who say they drive one for environmental reasons are lying. It is about their convenience.
They park on the sidewalk knowing it is illegal and take off their plates exactly for that reason hoping to circumvent the law.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:11 AM

"Scooters have worse emissions than automobiles. They are worse for the environment that a car. People who say they drive one for environmental reasons are lying. It is about their convenience."
That is absolutely false. Modern, 4-stroke scooters get up to 70 mpg and are very clean burning. There are also hybrid models now and even electric ones like the Vectrix.

As for the oft-misinterpreted emissions information your are quoting, it was a study of the old vintage model 2-stroke scooters. They are more polluting than a car but that's on a per gallon basis. Since they only use ONE or TWO gallons a week, do you really think that is worse than your SUV that uses that much fuel in an hour?

On a total emissions basis, even 'old dirty' scooters are more green than virtually all cars.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:20 AM

They wouldn't park illegally if there were legal parking where car owners wouldn't think of them as obstacles.

Such parking will not be created because the city generates too much revenue impounding and ticketing bikes.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:20 AM

This is Park Slope.

People here claim to be liberals, but what they actually are, are a bunch of entitled wanna be yuppies.

To those who denounce scooters...making up ridiculous lies about their emissions (when yes...they hold TWO GALLONS OF GAS!) are absolute trash and should start to be held accountable for treating our surroundings as such.

I think we should start taxing people who DRIVE CARS in a city that has such great subway access. We should be doing everything possible to encourage scooters and bicycles.

Not trying to justify your sad usage of a car to go to Fairway because you're too lazy to walk to Key Food.

God, so pathetic.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:31 AM

bren you are one angry person. i think that nless or until you experience some of the things that are being said you can't fully appreciate the level of pain. i didn't until i owned a scooter. more aware now. my bike has been knocked over and and i sleep better knowing it is at least locked to something making it a little more difficult to just pick up and steal. it costs a lot of money to fix. parking on the sidewalk, not in anyone's way......priceless.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:35 AM

I don't own a car OR motorcycle, Bren.

I walk EVERYWHERE...INCLUDING Key Food.

How about you? Car? Two of them, no doubt.

Put your money where your mouth is, go get laid and shut your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:48 AM

The mob is so vociferous, unruly and bitter when the stakes are so low. Principle, pragmatism, and the principle of pragmatism converge into a crisis that is so (un)important.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:52 AM

It's also illegal to jaywalk, so next time I see your skinny white ass walkin over to take your car to Pathmark, Bren...I'm callin the cops.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:08 PM

Are you really this passionate about this? Why? How? You are so much more similar than you think. Really. Kiss and make up! Do it!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:14 PM

10:05 here again. To the poster who asked if i was parking in spots way too tight -- i can assure you i'm not. i'm incredibly careful to always park with plenty of room between my scooter and the next car and almost always park in a space where there's only one car near my scooter -- like on a corner or at the last spot before a space for a driveway or fire hydrant. that way it isn't sandwiched between 2 cars and lessens the liklihood of it getting hit (one would hope). And i always leave plenty of room between my scooter and any car. but still my scooter gets knocked over often or moved, etc. etc.

Just restating the dilemna scooters owners face and why it would be nice to get a little understanding from our neighbors and police. If a scooter on a sidewalk is parked in a postion that blocks car access or sidewalk access, that's one thing. But if there's a spot that absolutely causes no inconvenience to passersby or parked automobiles, why are some people so adamant that the scooter owner MUST OBEY THE RULES. DON'T HAVE EVEN ONE TIRE ON THE SIDEWALK!!

and.. one time when i filed a police report about an SUV that backed into my scooter and pushed it along the street several feet before driving off (and yes there was SO much room between my scooter and the damn SU Monster) one of the police officers who came to take the report actually asked me why i didn't park my scooter on the sidewalk to keep it from being hit. seriously.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:29 PM

you pepole have way too much time on your hands. your logic defys me. if one can lock a bike (2 wheels) to a pole why can't a scooter (also 2 wheels). most of the complainers on this thread i am sure are suv-driving yuppie-ites still living in park slope so i would think you would be happy to have more room to park your 30-gallon a day gas guzzler emission spewing vehicle! get a life everyone! this is city living!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:29 PM

fine.....xoxoxox bren.

just stop talkin shit about the 2 wheelers.

they are better for the environment.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:37 PM

electric cars are better for the environment. so I guess that means I can park my golf cart on the sidewalk outside my home whenever I goddamn please?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:43 PM

Speaking of scooters...ever been to hanoi, or bangkok, or any other major asian city? It's like living amid a swarm of locusts. If it were easy for people to keep scooters in the city, everyone would use them rather than walk a few extra blocks to the bus or subway stop (lord knows I probably would!).

I say: keep internal combustion vehicles off the sidewalks. If you want to own one, you have to play by the rules. Dedicated spots...dunno; I suppose every 3 blocks on major aves. might not be a bad thing.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:50 PM

Aplogies for going DEEP

But this City has to rethink its allocation of space on the streets.

I read on the Transportation Alternatives web page that about 40% of public space is given over to parking. And mostly this is for FREE (tickets or a few quarters notwithstanding). Compare that to the hundres of dollars people will pay for a private lot. Even if only the public spots are worth a fraction of the private (25%, 50%, etc) this is SERIOUS MONEY. They City should cash in on this, and put the money into mass transit.

Even worse than the free give away, this public good goes to minority of NYC residents-- I happen to be one of them, as a car owner in Bed Stuy, so thanks! Less than 50% of NYC household have a car.

Even worse, not only to we give this valuable resource away for free to a minority, this then interferes, intimadates (yes even kills) lots of other peopel trying to use the streets for some other purpose (a truck actually trying to make a delivery; me on my bike riding to Manhattan-- quicker than my car!; people on scooters or trikes or whatever!).

We need to realize that the streets are CASH. We need to decide how we want to use them. Free parking for cars? Swing sets? Bike lanes? Micro-parks? Scooter parking? Obviously--to me at least-- we need more diversity of uses than what we have now. What we have now is HOMOGENOUS MONOCULTURE of CAR/SUV parking as the default regime --- see the convo above about scooter parking--which everyone one else must accomodate. eah, the new bike lanes are great, but only .00001% of the total surface streets (I made up that stat by the way, but bet you its right)!

Hey-- I love my car. And my bike and my scooter. But we have got to rethink this issue. CAR PEOPLE: we've been living high for too long (hey I got a alternate side ticket yesterday, so I know its not entirely free!). Its time to PAY UP. Its time to accomodate others.

SO HOW DO WE WANT TO USE OUR STREETS!!???

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:55 PM

What's the easiest way to destroy a motorcycle? Sugar in the tank or something? I want to get that a-hole who blows out my eardrums. Those bikes should be banned!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:55 PM

So the parking regulation should read...? No motorized vehicles on the sidewalk? Only two wheeled vehicles on the sidewalk? What? I think that these discussions don't always have to become a personal attack or digress to "you're such an idiot". Tolerance, baby! Open minds! Respect for your neighbors and their opinions!

I think that there is a valid point about the danger of something heavy falling on pedestrians, but I also see that a scooter in a whole car parking spot is not very sensible. I also see that while the number of scooters now is probably not a big deal- that if the numbers really increased it would not work. In the end I think that motorized vehicles should be in the street. As for the environment- it seems that, in the city, we could all probably get around on bikes. Obviously- it's idealistic.

BTW- Are scooters heavy? Do they tip easily?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:02 PM

1:02 PM - Most scooters are not very heavy - less than 200lbs (Maxi-scooters not included which can be as heavy as a motorcycle, but are the minority of scoots on the NYC streets)

They can be knocked over very easily - even a tap from someone parking by feel can send it down, causing hundreds of dollars of damage and in some instances making the bike unrideable.(like breaking off the brake or clutch lever)

However, as far as them being on the sidewalk and falling thus hurting someone, the chance is very slim. Unless someone is messing around with the bike they're not going to move on their own.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:27 PM

1:27 please read your post again- contradictory and self serving much?
sheesh.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:56 PM

It's illegal. Whether you like it or not. As a person who owns neither a scooter nor a car, I like the cops out there writing as many tickets as possible. I like that there is a team of people out there doing this all day, everyday. One more school book here, one less fire station closing there. And if you don't like it -- hey! don't park illegally. How hard is that?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:22 PM

200 POUNDS? Good grief. Park in the street.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:25 PM

We have a Vespa and mostly park it legally on the street, moving it each day for alternate-side parking--not really a problem, since there's pretty much always a space to squeeze it into. Yes, it's been scraped, bumped, even knocked over a few times, and that sucks, but we figure it's just part and parcel of living in a big crowded city.

The only problem we have is when we go out of town. As several people have noted, it's really hard to find a garage to take motorbikes. So when we're away and can't move it for alternate-side parking, that's the one time we end up parking it on the sidewalk (minus license plate, chained to a pole). Anyone have any suggestions around this conundrum? Or know of any garages/lots in Brooklyn that will take motorbikes for short periods?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:30 PM

@2:22

HA HA HA... you are so naive... as if this money just isn't filtered into corrupt folks pockets.

Schoolbooks! hilarious.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:51 PM

For the record, the sidewalks are under the jurisdiction of the DOT and it is currently against the law to obstruct the sidewalk with anything, a garbage can, a pile of rocks or a scooter. If you don't like the law, legislate to have it changed, but you do not have the option to break the law.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 3:03 PM

What constitutes obstructing the sidewalk? So- you can't chain bicycles. What do you mean no garbage cans? Not on garbage day? Well, there is the letter of the law and the law...

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 3:16 PM

1:56 PM - how is that contradictory?

Hit by a car =knocked over
Messed with by someone =knocked over
Falling of it's own accord? Not.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 3:17 PM

2:22 -- maybe a team of people can follow you around all day to write you a ticket everytime you jaywalk; everytime you put t he wrong items in your trash and recycle bins (or better yet, maybe they can go through your recycle and trash containers when left on sidewalk and ticket you even when a passerby throws the wrong item in the wrong bin). more schoolbooks! yippee!!!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 3:29 PM

That would be great- too bad Gore isn't running.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 3:51 PM

2:22 here and they do go thru my trash. Are you joking? Of course they ticket trash! I've had 2 tickets in 4 years. It's usually a beer can someone thru into my cans, but that's life. I can handle it.

If you want to change the law, fine. But it's illegal to park on the sidewalk. If you do, you'll get a ticket.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 6:21 PM

This is ridiculous. The (presumably car-owning) posters keep saying that scooter- and motorcycle-riders should have to play by the rules. But when we park our bikes on the street, they get knocked over, often causing hundreds of dollars in damage. Are the car drivers who cause this damage going to "play by the rules" and leave a note, and pay for the damage? Of course not; they slink away like weasels, tell themselves it's not that big a deal in the long run, and sleep just fine at night. It is, literally, criminal (recklessly causing more than $250 damage to the property of another).

So why should the riders bear all the expense here? Look at the photo above: those bikes are parked on the sidewalk in such a way that they are not blocking any cars doors, are not blocking pedestrians... they cause no moer obstruction than a tree or hydrant or trash cans. I agree that they would look better without those covers on, but again, that has to do with tickets, i.e. the bike owners will bear more expense of they take the covers off.

Basically, you're punished for riding a scooter or motorcycle. It sucks, because 1) getting your property damaged by careless drivers and not having any recourse is crap - we live in a society of laws, and there should be justice in such situations; and 2) if more people owned motorbikes, there would be less smog and pollution, and more parking spots (!), etc.; so why do we have these institutional disincentives? Those are two very different reasons, but at the end of the day you can't argue they're not both valid.

The system really has to change, it really is unjust right now. Either there should be designated on-street parking for scooters and motorcycles, or they should be allowed to park off street, in such a way as not to inconvenience others (no reason cops couldn't make this judgment call, and if house owners didn't want it in a particular spot in front of their property, they could just write a note or have cops issue a warning to move the bike elsewhere... riders actually tend to be very considerate people, more so than drivers).

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 6:33 PM

Thank you 6:33 PM for stating the case so well.

Your point about leaving a note is the biggest issue I think. I had my bike knocked over and dragged for over 6 feet once. A kind neighbor picked it up for me, but the marks on my motorcycle and the street bore testament to the act. Around $600 in damage that time alone, not to mention towing fees to get it to the shop.
If people didn't break the law by damaging others property then not compensating them we wouldn't be even talking about this issue.

And if we're talking about enforcing all laws, how about that no vehicles over 3 tons allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge. There are plenty of SUV's that easily hit that mark by themselves, let alone with the weight of passengers added - and I see them on the bridge everyday.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 7:00 PM

In most european cities, where 2 wheeled vehicles are considered serious transportation, not just lifestyle accessories (due no doubt to the $9/gallon gasoline), there is dedicated moto parking on every block.

These cities are a lot more pleasant for the smaller, narrower motos and relatively few cars.

Also dedicated bike lanes...but don't get me started on that!!!

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 7:12 PM

As a car owner, cyclist, and occasional motorcyclist (don't currently own one) I can say that this city is ridiculously biased towards car ownership at the expense of every other form of transportation, including public transport but especially 2 wheeled transport. Motorists alike harass and sometimes kill cyclists and motorcyclists with impunity, and the city harasses them.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 7:16 PM

I still don't get the 'endangers others' aspect of peoples arguments.
Granted, there are two wheelers out there who park on the sidewalk in peoples way, but the vast majority are responsible and bikes are placed in line with other obstructions on the sidewalk where people would not normally be walking.
Can anyone here cite one instance where a bike, on it's own without human interference, fell over and hurt someone?

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 9:55 PM

wow people really argue about anything and everything on here. weird

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:28 PM

Bren- you can be so good. What are you talking about this morning?

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 10:03 AM

Last night I saw a guy with his scooter parked in front of our building, putting his license plate back on via velcro. Hilarious.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 10:23 AM

The Mayor is a Mod-Hater too, Big Brother comes in all forms.

-NJ

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 4:59 PM

I'm wondering how fast it would take for the city and police to take action if instead of a bike receiving $250 to $600 in damage for parking legally in the street, it would be a legally parked car or SUV instead. Each night. Until space is made available for all motorists, or none. Let's make it fair.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 10:39 PM

My car gets dented on a regular from street parking.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 7:45 PM

I would move to another city where your scooters can park as cars safely. NYC is a shithole of a city where no one gives a fuck about anyone.

Posted by: guest at April 21, 2008 10:32 PM