Open House Picks: Houses

As a neighbor I have every interest in hoping that 6th Street gets its ask, and it sure looks nice enough. But I believe a couple of houses directly across the fence of 6th Street, between 5th and 6th Avenue have sold, in the past year or so, closer to 1.5 or 1.6.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 1:35 PM

What's the area like for the Kensington house?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 1:37 PM

What you're missing, crouchback2, is the pool in the backyard!!!!!

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 1:39 PM

crouchback 2 -> 21x49x4 greater than 4000. PShark has inconsistent data.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 1:54 PM

I guess people think that it's cute to leave their pets in the photo's listing their homes. I don't. I'm not a dog fan, although I would never want to see any dog mistreated. The first thing that comes to my mind is how much dog spit I'd have to wipe from the walls and everything else before I moved in. That said, the house is actually very nice and the neighborhood is nice as well. Caton Avenue is a very busy block truck traffic wise though, as it leads from Ocean Pkwy and Ft Hamilton Pkwy into Linden Blvd. Price seems reasonable. Will probably go for about $850.000.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 1:58 PM

a pool?? i dont think a pool is a value add... it is a money drain. it raises your insurance costs, electricity bill, chemicals (chlorine etc) cost $ etc. Plus it is work to maintain... or you hire someone for more $.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:02 PM

Bed Stuy is sweet but quite small. Looks really overpriced to me, given the state of the Bed Stuy market.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:04 PM

2:02, I was joking about the pool. I think it's kind of crazy, actually.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:07 PM

All 4 houses at ask price are still over 2 million less than the Cobble Hill House Of the Day. But where would my entourage park their cars?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:16 PM

carrol gardens way over priced- why such a big piucture of that pool table- ugh at least we see the rump othe stffe aial hse brokers pictures. sellers would have had a better bet going with a local broker who knows the area

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:17 PM

how wide is that 5th street house?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:26 PM

5th street is nice and well done but it's still only 15X50 and not on the right side of the street when it comes to school (i.e. 321) so to me the $1.875 is a little bit too much

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:28 PM

5th Street house is 15 feet wide! Come on. There are actually quite a new few and wider Park Slope houses priced less than this one--search NY Times for all new PS listings and you'll see them. If you are going to spend $1.875, you're better off the the new President Street listing, 17 feet wide, in 321, 1-family, nice reno (BHS listing).

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:32 PM

none of these are appealing....

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:35 PM

2:32: The BHS house on President is zoned for PS 282, not 321. Only the south side of that block of President is zoned for 321. (I doublechecked by calling 311.) It also looks nice, though.

(By the way, I have nothing against PS 282, and my child goes to PS 39, which the 5th Street house is zoned for--but as a practical matter, the 321 zone does affect the price, so it's relevant.)

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: 5th Street house - I also find this a shocking price - I mean, come on - for a 15 footer? A friend went to the open house and said they did a great job with their basement (turning it into rec/guest room with small bathroom w/shower) so I suppose they're considering that it's 4 usable floors but frankly, you could buy a much cheaper house and pay yourself to fix up the basement which certainly is not *that* expensive to do. As for the "wrong" side of the street comment, I don't necessarily agree with that - PS39 is a school that's up and coming - but I think the main problem with their ask is simply that it's too small a house. Other houses of that size have sold pretty recently for significantly less - and even if they needed a lot of work, it would still have been much cheaper than this house, and you would have been able to renovate exactly as you wish, instead of inheriting the current owner's taste (which is OK, but not so great as to merit this extremely aggressive price). This house is way overpriced

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:51 PM

LOVE the Park Slope house.

Definitely going to take a look Sunday.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:54 PM

I agree--having the dog in every picutre of the Kensington house is a little creepy.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 2:59 PM

Thanks for checking out the school district issue, 2:45.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:18 PM

20+ feet townhouses are for fat people.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:29 PM

I think there are 2 dogs in that Kensington house. If you look at the second pic, you'll see the dog looking at the second dog's hindparts (which are sticking out just past the corner). In the fourth pic you can see one dog in the foreground and the other in the doorway. I love dogs.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:32 PM

what are you all talking about? the clifton house IS in clinton hill. bed stuy begins at BEDFORD. The zip code is CLINTON HILL 11238!

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:35 PM

The Park Slope house (or at least the lot) is 16 feet wide. Look at the floorplan - which includes dimensions of the yard.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:42 PM

2:51: "As for the "wrong" side of the street comment, I don't necessarily agree with that - PS39 is a school that's up and coming - but I think the main problem with their ask is simply that it's too small a house..."

I agree--I love PS 39: excellent teachers, great new principal, small classes and outstanding test scores.

But when it comes to pricing a house, what matters is not reality, and not my particular perceptions, but the perception of the mass market. And in the perception of the mass market buying in Park Slope, 321 still carries a price premium. That's the only point I wanted to make (I posted at 2:45).

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:43 PM

"The first thing that comes to my mind is how much dog spit I'd have to wipe from the walls and everything else before I moved in. "

i would hope you would have any house cleaned before you move in.

this is a stupid comment.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:49 PM

I'm so tired of the PS 321 propaganda.

Just wait till 3 more mega-unit Novo condo buildings come on-line all touting the PS 321 connection. Can you say "overcrowded classes = crappier school"?

PS 321 is an ever-dissipating myth people in that school zone use to prop up their ask prices.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:52 PM

PS seems full of greedy, unrealistic sellers... this week's open house pick is just another example.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:54 PM

I know the Kensington house is on a very busy road - that gets terrible traffic from about 3pm-6pm... big downside for me

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:56 PM

You all give way too much credit to the schools issue.

No one even talks of schools when it comes to Ft. Greene, Clinton Hill etc and many homes there have sold for at least this price, if not more.

You seem to only want to use the school card, when applied to Park Slope, but not when it applies to other neighborhoods.

The fact remains, that Park Slope itself is what gives the home it's price...it's a fantastic neighborhood. The difference between ps 39 or ps 321 has so little to do with the price.

That Berkeley Place home sold for 3.4 million and it's in ps 282. NOT 321.

People want to live in Park Slope for the neighborhood. The school is simply an added bonus.

Otherwise, let's start DEDUCTING money from the prices of all of the other horrible schools that most of the other non Park Slope homes are listed in.

Bed Stuy homes are cheaper, because BED STUY isn't yet the most amazing neighborhood. Not because its elementary schools are below par.

Come on.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 3:57 PM

I would never buy a house with dogs in it, the price should be discounted for the price of the dog food that you will have to buy. Plus that Park slope house has no dogs so the house should be wider at least 20 feet to accomodate the dogs that are not there.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:01 PM

More children in the area do not mean more crowded classes. Class size is determined by the board of ed, and all around Park Slope (PS107, PS282, PS39, PS321) classes are already filled to the max.
Bigger schools (as in more children attending them) does mean more funds (as they receive a fixed amount times the number of children enrolled), which means more diverse opportunities for the students.
According to 'inside schools' website, some of the other schools in PS are more crowded than 321 (for example, 107). Only thing is 321 is bigger. Let's not confuse things.

Anyhow, the price is determined by buyers, not sellers. Look at all those brownstones out of 321 ridiculously priced and languising. Asking prices don't mean much. Closing prices are the ones to go by.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:02 PM

I could give a shit about the school issue. I don't have kids, probably won't have em, and I'm looking in Park Slope. The price on the 5th Street house is still HIGH for what it is. And there are many other more attractive houses at lower. albeit still high, price points that have come on the market, check them out.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:02 PM

We should send the dogs to PS321.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:03 PM

3:57, One of the reasons that PS is so expensive is that the schools are supposedly decent and therefore people think that they can save the 25K per kid annual cost of private school and therefore spend more on the mortgage. If the schools didn't have the rep that they do, prices would be lower. That is a simple fact. People do not discuss schools when discussing other areas because it is assumed that they will be sending the wee ones to private school.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:05 PM

PS is full of greedy sellers... this week's open house pick is another example.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:08 PM

PS is full of greedy buyers... this weeks open house pick is not another example

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:26 PM

4:05...

i don't agree that park slope is "so expensive"

why is any neighborhood "so expensive" in nyc?

is hell's kitchen "so expensive" because its schools are great?

was that house in cobble hill priced at 8.75 million because the schools are superior?

i'd think soho and tribeca would have the best schools in the nation with prices of housing there. is that true?

see my point?

i don't think 1.8 million dollars for a house in one of the most beautiful neighborhoods of new york city is "so expensive"

not when that's the going rate for a decent 2 bedroom on the upper west side.

and an added bonus: you get a nice elementary school if you've got kids.

i know everyone seems to think that you only move to park slope if you have children, but you should take a walk around there sometime. there's plenty of young childless couples, lots of gay couples and seemingly more and more empty nesters.

none of which give a rats ass about ps. 321

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:30 PM

the family that blows $2 mil on a house is not sending their kids to public school, 321-Kool-Aid or not.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:32 PM

As for the PS house, the point is there is not much for under 2m in PS. I'm not saying it's worth the money, but they will probably get close to asking. And schools are very important in terms of selling price. PS 39 is far better than 282, also, district 15 is far batter than 13

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:37 PM

The dog is an akita, not a german shepard.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:38 PM

so if 321 is better than 29 which is better than 282, why did those berkeley place homes fly off the market...one for almost 3 1/2 million and one for nearly 2.7 million?

berkeley is in 282, no?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:42 PM

321 is better than 29 which pales in comparision to 282 and BC beats them all. I would not consider a house for under 2 mil. makes me wonder where all the liquids have been.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:51 PM

4:32
"the family that blows $2 mil on a house is not sending their kids to public school, 321-Kool-Aid or not."

The people who repeatedly post comments like this have no clue. Right or wrong, being able to afford $2M in Brownstone Brooklyn does not exactly qualify you for the Silver Spoons crowd. Though you may have graduated beyond Archie Bunker.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:51 PM

none of this matters.

the park slope home will sell before any of the others highlighted.

people pay a premium to live in the neighborhood they like.

period.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 4:56 PM

"the family that blows $2 mil on a house is not sending their kids to public school, 321-Kool-Aid or not."

That is utter nonsense. I have 3 kids, so private school would be 75K a year, which is a lot for me even though I can afford a 2 million dollar house. I could possibly scrape the 75K together, but it would be a big strain on the budget. And I am happy that my kids go to a good public school and that they get to experience some socio-economic diversity.

"i know everyone seems to think that you only move to park slope if you have children, but you should take a walk around there sometime. there's plenty of young childless couples, lots of gay couples and seemingly more and more empty nesters."

The childless couples are planning on having kids. The empty nesters had kids. The gay couples may be planning on having kids too.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:01 PM

4:51 who wrote: "The people who repeatedly post comments like this have no clue" ... if you're right then those purchasers have their priorities very screwed up.

Honey, let's "stretch" to buy a big 'ol townhouse and then send the kids to public school to save a few bucks.

Or are you making another [probably equally nonsensical] point?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:02 PM

People, take a look at the many new PS listings that are on the market. Many have just been listed this week. They range from $1.42-$2.3.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:06 PM

I live in Ditmas Park but drive through Kensington regularly. This street is particlarly appealing, and although little busy, not as bad as Church. There's a dead end just behind this row of houses that keeps the traffic from getting out of hand.

These street is one of the few in Kensington that has been spared seriously flawed exterior renovations over the years.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:08 PM

Kensington - one of those bedrooms looks pretty tiny. Even for a dog.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:10 PM

A few points:
1) this house IS 15 ft, not 16 ft, and the owner admits it.
2) broker is being way too aggressive
3) there are definitely other listings under 2 mil in PS
4) this is a ridiculous price for such a tiny house

Also, for the person who said people are crazy to buy a house at the expense of sending their kid to private schoool - I have researched this issue extensively, and feel confident that the NYC public school system offers a lot of great choices. Going to public school is not necessarily feeding your kids the scraps - there are many *advantages* to public school that are not necessarily present in private school (and vice versa). I would not consider private always better than public, just different - so much depends on the family and the kid. Also, buying a house is not a selfish decision parents make at the expense of their kids - the kids benefit too by having more space, possibly happier parents, and an investment their parents will likely leave to them in some form (building wealth in the family usually benefits kids too). Of course, it's a very individual choice, and I truly think many families who have some options but are not mega-wealthy find themselves wrestling with the choices, but I think it's just plain silly to condemn NYC home-buyers as being indifferent to their kids' education. Indeed, school zones pay a huge role in many families' decisions of where to buy! That said, some people will choose to live in a small place or a rental and sacrifice all for private school (or might not the money for that either) and that's fine too - why is this forum always so judgmental?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:17 PM

@petunia:

1. So as not to undermine your friend's sale, a correction: their house is above 5th Avenue, not below.

2. Interesting to hear that Warren Lewis set the price. The scuttlebutt on Brownstoner in the past has been that they price low, to spur bidding wars.

3. Yeah, I hate when people here throw around the word "greedy," as if a seller has some moral obligation not to get every dime they can, like anyone selling anything else. Overoptimistic, maybe, but let's not get moralistic about it.

4. Fact remains, as I posted before, that nicely renovated houses on 6th Street between 5th and 6th (pretty block, same school) have sold arounf $1.5 or $1.6M in the last year or so. Good luck to your friends because if they get their price then I have more equity than I thought, but I see this going more in that range.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:22 PM

Hard to see the details of all the homes because their decor is blinding me. Good grief. That Caton House....talk about overkill with the photos on the wall leading up the stairs. I am so fixed on the ugly styles I can't see past them.Yikes.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:25 PM

Sounds to me that Park Slope continues to buck the trend of the National housing bust.

Probably just in time for it to rebound.

New Homes sales rose 4.8 % in September.

A good neighborhood is a good neighborhood.

To anyone buying anything on sale....YOU ARE GREEDY. PAY FULL PRICE NO MATTER WHAT!

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:37 PM

why are there never any brooklyn heights listings?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:48 PM

Re Park slope: Anyone who thinks that the new condos on 4th Ave don't have the potential to affect 321 is kidding themselves. The only saving grace is that the developers made many of the units 1 bedrooms, which are less likely to have school age kids in them. As deelopmet continues, I suspect that the school board will have to redraw boundaries in the area. 321 is bursting at the seams -- look at all of the temporary classrooms taking up outdoor play space. Max class sizes are mandated -- what happens if more kids pour into the zone?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 5:48 PM

good thing, ps 282 and ps 39 are excellent schools as well.

name another neighborhood in brooklyn with THREE above average elementary schools...two of which are improving leaps and bounds every year.

and you wonder why people are flocking to park slope.

duh.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 6:08 PM

Actually you forgot ps 107

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 6:17 PM

5:48, do you mean no Brooklyn Heights open house picks on Brownstoner, or no listings generally? There are usually a few out there at any given time. But keep in mind it's a small neighborhood, so the townhouse inventory is low compared to other neighborhoods, and many of the houses are listed by appointment only.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 6:35 PM

Caton is not a busy street?? Wow, are you kidding? It seems intensly busy to me. Maybe it's because it is so narrow that it seems more so? I don't know, I live in Kensington, and I truly love it, but I could never live on that street, as pretty as the house seems.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 6:45 PM

Sorry, the post I was refering to "a little busy, but not as bad as Church." That may be but Caton is a truck route whereas the traffic on Church tends to be more foot traffic. I wouldn't live on either. I like my nice little quiet side-street.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 6:48 PM

"Name another neighborhood in brooklyn with THREE above average elementary schools...two of which are improving leaps and bounds every year."

6:08, try Bay Ridge - PS 185 outranks 321, 104 and 127 and 102 all really great schools as well.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 7:01 PM

bay ridge...ok.

love bay ridge, but it's a little too far for most people to even consider.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 7:19 PM

"Name another neighborhood in brooklyn with THREE above average elementary schools...two of which are improving leaps and bounds every year."

this is sort of an odd question bcs many neighborhoods are much smaller than Park Slope and have one local school. Which may be better than having three depending on how you look at it.

And which? The ones that cost money. Cobble HIll (29), Brooklyn Heights/Dumbo (8) and they may be getting a brand new "green" middle school, and Carroll Gardens has 58 which will have the option of dual-language French/English immersion starting next year. There are good options. And less crowded to boot.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 7:39 PM

Only white trash live in Park Slope.

Park Slope is overpriced.

Park Slope is over.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:01 PM

white trash, stroller moms, lezzies, wall streeters, dilfs, poor latinos, hipsters!!!

wow, by all the talk about park slope, it sounds like the most diverse neighborhood in all of nyc!!

and those are just the groups i've heard about THIS WEEK on this blog.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:05 PM

I have a severe allergy to dogs. I sometimes start wheasing if I am just standing next to someone who has a dog. Yes homes can and should be thoroughly cleaned prior to moving in but I learned from my days of renting that it is extremely difficult to remove dog dander. While working with my agent I had to remind her not to show me homes with dogs. I may be in the minority but I am sure there are others like me. Some people may not have health issues but just may be turned off by seeing a dog in the photos. Just today on HGTV seller's were told to put their huge dogs in a kennel and to remove the dog bowl from the kitchen floor among other things when showing their home.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:14 PM

The 5th Street house looks terrific and love the block. Price seems ok - don't see much in this price range that compares. Hearing really good things lately about P.S.39.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:19 PM

What is it, really, about Park Slope that elicits such extreme expressions of both love and hate? I don't get it.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:20 PM

What is it, really about dogs that elicits such extreme expressions of both love and hate? I don't get that either.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:28 PM

Park Slope is a beautiful, gorgeous, eco-friendly, urban neighborhood with some good schools, a world class park and the largest enclave of early 20th century architecture in the U.S.

Some people are childish and either are jealous of it or have decided, based on a small population of the neighborhood, that they hate it.

It's silly. You can hate the inhabitants all you'd like (personally I don't get it, but to each his/her own) but the hatred towards the neighborhood itself is beyond me.

You hate beautiful old buildings, mom and pop stores, parks, good schools....??

Ok. Then you are spawned from Satan.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:35 PM

It's weird though, because the other day I was talking to a woman from Manhattan, who I must tell you, is absolutely clueless about any geographical area outside of her 10-block radius, and I mentioned that my husband and I were looking to buy a place in Park Slope. The first thing out of her mouth was that "the moms in Park Slope were clique-y" and she could never move there as a single mom. I've heard this too, and I have no idea what the heck it means... beyond its literal interpretation. First of all, who are these "moms" and how are you clique-y as an adult? Then, someone else wrote on another thread to "be careful because the Sarah Lawrence moms that hang at the Connecticut Muffin will cut you"!

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:46 PM

Park Slope is not the "largest enclave of early 20th century architecture in the U.S." I thought the largest early 20th century enclave, in New York anyway, was Victorian Flatbush which was mostly developed between 1900 and 1904. Park Slope and the other Brownstone neighborhoods were developed beginning in the mid 19th to late 19th century and even then, doesn't Bed-Stuy have a larger enclave?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:49 PM

Did someone say that the basement on 5th St has a shower? Hmmm- the department of buildings approved that?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:51 PM

I'm not 8:35, but I'm quoting directly from Lockwood's Bricks & Brownstone (p. 286):
"Park Slope is New York's largest, most intact mid-to-late-nineteenth-century brownstone neighborhood."

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:53 PM

Prospect-Lefferts-Gardens: Papas & Sons market was busted Wednesday. “Word on the street is that someone in there was running numbers,” but no one’s talking. [Across the Park]

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:54 PM

Most people who make comments about Park Slope moms have never even been to Park Slope. They read stuff on blogs.

People seem to think that mothers who seek out the friendship of other mothers is being clique-y. It's absurd. I'm gay, but I happen to have more gay friends. I guess I'm clique-y then too. My father likes golf and hangs around mostly other guys who play golf. What a clique-y ass. College students...all they do is hang around other college students. Damn then.

You know...this is the largest city in the U.S. Up until a few years ago, raising children here was all but lost. It would make sense to me that moms would want to befriend other moms.

Sure there are some bad apples. Just like there are in any group.

But I simply don't see how there are any more clique-y moms in Park Slope as there are on the Upper West Side (at least in Park Slope you actually SEE some moms, whereas on the upper west side I rarely see a white child being strollered by a white woman) but that's neither here nor there. Same thing goes with Tribeca, Upper East Side, etc.

Park Slope has been the product of some bad press and some really immature stories written about the moms here, that would otherwise be trash if written about mothers in another neighborhood.

I chalk a lot of it up to jealousy.

And your friend...8:46 is is quite ignorant. I would guess Park Slope would be a haven for a single mom. She simply has a narrow mind.

Whoever made the Sarah Lawrence mom comment...well they are just laughable. I've never heard of anything so asinine.

If you are interested in Park Slope...check it out....walk around...you'll easily get a feel for the neighborhood.

Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't...

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 8:56 PM

sorry, i'm 8:35. i realized after i wrote it, that it should have been 19th century. i thought i'd leave it for someone to correct it...

and this was what i was referring to...

"No neighborhood in America has a finer and more intact collection of late 19th-century row houses than Park Slope," notes architectural historian and Columbia University professor Andrew Dolkart

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:00 PM

8:46....

here's a little more to read about on Park Slope, if you'd like...

http://www.planning.org/greatplaces/neighborhoods/parkslope.htm

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:03 PM

I agree 8:56. I for one really like Park Slope. But this woman was going by what she'd read about, some of it in the mainstream press. I was actually suggesting PS to her BECAUSE she is a single mom. But she was repeating what she'd read and heard.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:03 PM

Wait, few nannies in PS? Are you serious? There are more nannies than moms. No less so than on the UWS or UES. To the point that the OTBKB blog actually (and extremely condescendingly so) thanked them in last year's ridiculous 100 best list:

"THE NANNIES OF PARK SLOPE because they really hold the entire neighborhood together by being there for the kids, caring for them, disciplining them, and loving them. Few families could exist without them (whether they pitch in part time or full time). NOTE: Why ignore the fact that thousands of hard working women work as caregivers? Just because people resent the fact that people hire other people to look after their children doesn't mean that they don't serve a very important role in this community. To leave them out would be a terrible omission. This is a tribute to them."

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:21 PM

Well since all the trash talk of Park Slope seems to have really depressed prices, perhaps we can pick another neighborhood to single out a group of people thus cause the same result.

Those freakin lezzies in Kensington...

Always going to Home Depot....

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:24 PM

I love how you take words from a blog as fact.

Get out of your house and make your own opinions about a neighborhood! I don't give a shit about the 100 best list.

I never said there were no nannies in Park Slope, nor did I say that nannies were a bad thing. They are oftentimes a necessity in this world we live in.

But I do live here and work on the UWS, and trust me...if I see a white woman with a white child on the UWS, it's a RARE occassion. I can't say the same thing here. And if you'll read my post, I believe I said it was neither here nor there, so really you just want to argue and that's not my bag.

I suppose you'll have to do a survey and see how many nannies there are in each neighborhood in NYC. THEN you can prove me wrong.

Otherwise my own eyes I trust a little more then OTBKB.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:28 PM

So... 3rd Place pad has a jacuzzi AND a pool.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 9:55 PM

For the one who said:

"love bay ridge, but it's a little too far for most people to even consider."

So, let me get this straight, the parents of Park Slope think it's best to stretch their dollars to buy a house, justifying the expense by sending their children to public school, and even though they could access better public schools in Bay Ridge they hate such a long commute so they won't do it.

Nice! It shows exactly why people bash Park Slope, since some were wondering. Because of all the smug narcissistic hypocrites.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:06 PM

some random thoughts:

the moms in the slope ARE tight with each other, they are a club and if you are the least bit different you won't be hanging out with them much. they are depressingly the same. same talk, same husbands, same jobs, same escapes over summer, they trade nannies back and forth.

second thought: brokers must be hurting in the hip pocket. I look at warren lewis, A&H, corcoran, BHS, and a couple of others every weekend and for the last four weeks they've moved very few properties over 450k: the same ones, week after week after week.. brooklyn properties even worse. They might be moving condos on 4th or hello blues in the car shop triangle near prospect heights, but they aren't moving many floor-thrus co-ops and brownstones.. thats for sure.. and if it is bad now, just when the leaves look nicest, how will it be over winter?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:12 PM

so they're like stepford wives, except that they all work as lifestyle magazine editors!

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:21 PM

Listen, some of us are busting our a$$es to get by in the city, putting together a decent income, college-educated, professional jobs, and maybe we weren't lucky or born early enough to get in on the ground floor and "live the dream" in Park Slope. And we have to walk around and see all you smug bastards sitting on your stoops in "one of America's 10 Best Neighborhoods" with your self-satisfied grins, with your Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers, pushing your f-ing $800 strollers, eating out at Stone Park while your tenants pay your mortgage... yeah we feel left out of the "clique." Yeah we want to take some shots. Yeah, we're praying for the whole house of cards to come down and we want to let off some steam on Brownstoner. So what? Cut us some slack--you already own the whole f-ing world already. Jesus.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:27 PM

I think 10:21pm may be the dumbest comment I've ever read on this site. And what are "hello blues"?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:31 PM

I mean the 10:12pm comment may be the dumbest comment I've ever read on this site. And what are "hello blues"?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:32 PM

Well whoever asked why people love/hate Park Slope...I think 10:27 pretty much summed it up.

You need to smoke some pot, dude.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:35 PM

all this talk is nonsense i would rather live in cobble Hill or carroll Gardens over park slope. Much nicer areas if you ask me. also the 3 place home is nice what are you people talking about?

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:41 PM

10:12 and 10:06 are some pretty dumb ones.

agreed, 10:32.

first of all someone's getting a little defensive about bay ridge.
it's a perfectly fine place, but some people don't have the ability or desire to commute over an hour each way to work. that's ok, isn't it?

some people would rather spend TIME with their children, then spend it on a subway car. that's not ok, psychopath, i mean...10:06.

10:12 may do a lot of browsing along the real estate market in park slope, but he/she has no concept of reality.

park slope has one of the lowest inventories. while some properties sit on the market, from my experience many are gone within a month or two.

FAR shorter than the 126 days average nationwide.

i'm sorry they aren't selling fast enough for you buddy. 30 days, 60 days, 120 days...you still can't afford one, or perhaps you'd have popped in and actually asked about one of them to have realized it's already been sold.

and how exactly do you know so much about park slope moms, might i ask???

for someone who seemingly hates them, you sure do claim to know an awful lot about them. been reading gawker on those lunch breaks?

p.s. anyone who uses the word "tight" is an ignoramus in my book

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:42 PM

"same talk, same husbands, same jobs, same escapes over summer, they trade nannies back and forth"

same husbands??

is polygamy legal in park slope now!!!???

I'M SO THERE!!!

the nanny trading sounds kinda hot too.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:45 PM

Park Slope is like Lindsay Lohan.

It might get some bad press from time to time, but very few people wouldn't want to get a piece of it, if they could.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 10:53 PM

i was once yelled at my 3 park slope moms for giving my daughter a bottle (of formula). YELLED

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 11:05 PM

Park Slope moms once told me if I allowed my child to watch TV they'd have me killed and make it look like an accident.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 11:12 PM

I'm a working mom in park slope. My daughter is probably one of 2-3 other kids in her preschool class whose both parents work. We are fortunate to own a small 2 bedroom coop, which we work hard to afford. It DOES hurt to see that all these parents can afford to have one parent working and one at home, and it IS frustrating to get the contact list for your kid's class and see a lot of house numbers with no apartment numbers next to them. And it makes me sad that my daughter doesn't get invited to many playdates with her classmates because I'm not a part of the SAHM scene (and most SAHMs I meet aren't into weekend playdates). The main difference between us and many of our daughter's classmates' parents? Age. We had our daughter rather young by PS standards and we are in our early 30s. Many of the parents you see sitting on stoops did manage to cash in on a market that younger folks had to suck up and buy into. Regardless, we feel really fortunate to live here. It IS a wonderful and beautiful neighborhood and most of the people I have met are very open and friendly. I don't begrudge people here their success...but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit envious.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 11:14 PM

About the SAHM issue, I think that's kind of complicated, because SAHMs resent those who have careers, and vice versa. It's always greener... Also, not all SAHMs are rich. Sometimes the math just doesn't add up if you factor in day care or nannies, and it makes more sense for 1 parent to stay home. I also know many women who could comfortably raise a family with a freelance salary or just their husband's salary, but who don't want to give up a career.

Posted by: guest at October 26, 2007 11:51 PM

It used to be that every mom was a stay at home mom.

Then they started working and people began hating that they had to leave their kids in daycare, hire a babysitter, hire a nanny.

Now you're telling me that people are resentful of stay at home mom's again?

Dear lord. Does everyone just sit around thinking of reasons to be jealous, envious, resentful of everyone else?

Just do your best to be happy and stop looking around at what everyone else is doing.

It's sick.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:05 AM

Oh btw, since you just said 11:51 that practically every mother is a "SAHM" perhaps you can shed some light on why some commenters on here seem to think the neighborhood is overrun with nannies raising their children.

Which is is?

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:10 AM

"I don't begrudge people here their success...but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit envious."

This is a pretty basic principle in life. Your hubby could have chosen something that his heart was in...perhaps music, or photography or a not for profit and had a lovely life with money not dripping out of his ears.

Or he could work 16 hours a day on Wall Street or at a Hedge Fund.

Everyone makes choices in life. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work on Wall Street. It was a life choice to make lots of money.

The moral here is that money does not equal happiness.

Your statement of envy just seems so much like that of a martyr. I don't get it. This is the life you choose. If you want your daughter to have a home without any apartment numbers, then go get another job or tell your husband to quit what he loves so he can make all your dreams come true.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:18 AM

i'm 11:14 and i can tell you that there are a lot of kids here, and there are a lot of BOTH SAHMs and nannies.

fwiw, i do my best to be happy with our situation. i think we are lucky in a lot of ways. but brownstone envy is a toughy tho, as i am sure many on this site can attest.
;-)

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:21 AM

re: clifton place

much as it serves my interest for prices to be high in this neighborhood (i own a loft across the street on the CH side of classon) I think they are smoking crack. 1.4 million? it's a tiny house. And, Corcoran conveniently omitted the fact that a 7-story tower - can't wait to see what monstrosity they build - is going up next door and will probably cast a huge shadow over the property.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:22 AM

Look, PS is a nice neighborhood - I own and live there, and am a working mom struggling like most New Yorkers these days who are not a) extremely wealthy and b) lucky enough to have bought a home early. (And I won't even get into all the debates about SAHM vs. working/nannies v. moms - why must we always digress so much here?) But that still does not mean that 1.8+mil is reasonable for the Warren Lewis 15-ft listing. I think 1.5-1.6 tops is more like it. You simply can't do much with 15 feet.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 1:31 AM

no one seems to be asking how the children feel.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 8:29 AM

The dog thing is totally freaky - like they are stuffed, and the focal point of the shots to boot. Kind of like that stuffed ostrich in the BedStuy house last year.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:03 AM

I would add Ditmas Park/Victorian Flatbush to the school debate. PS 217, PS 139, and, the CIG (Center for the Intellectually Gifted) elementary school on Avenue L.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:03 AM

How do the children feel?

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:11 AM

I'll tell you how the kids feel (mine anyway).

I have a freelance lifestyle that leaves me working around the clock for three months, then a SAHM for the next three. When I'm working, the kids complain that I don't cook dinner, don't do enough laundry, can't come to school functions....

Then, when they have my undivided attention, they want to buy some expensive toy or gadget, and I have to say I don't have the cash. They tell me to get back to work.

Grass is ALWAYS greener...:)

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:12 AM

Getting back to the homes...the PS place is pretty great. Yeah, the bedroom layout isn't great for 2 kids, but I'd just put another br down in the basement area. May not be "legal," but who's going to check? Anyway, there are tons of kids in burbs living in basement rec-room bedrooms. It may not go for 1.9m, but I'll bet it'll be pretty close.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:14 AM

now that you've alerted me that there will be some tween potsmoker psp-ing his/her life away in that basement, 10:14--i'm calling the DOB, ATF and D.A.R.E!

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:54 AM

Park Slope is SOO 80's. Ditms PArk is what ps used to be, artist friendly, very diverse and a little rough around the edges. there is more Prada in PS than should be.

To the writer who said those of us talking about the moms there should go there- pllleez. Been there, lived there. While it is beautiful and very easy to get around the "new to ps" moms there are by and large very myopic and so special. after all they have had their careers and now are embarking on the last horizon- obtaining a child!! When they get it watch out! Watch- no discipline they will ask Mikey ,"if it is ok if mommy gets a cofffee?"

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:58 AM

there are a lot of dumb f'ing people who post on the internet.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:59 AM

Regarding 11:14 PM saying:

"And it makes me sad that my daughter doesn't get invited to many playdates with her classmates because I'm not a part of the SAHM scene."

Hey 11:14, you deserve better treatment than that and so does your daughter! That is such a sad thing to hear, that snooty Park Slope mommies actually punish your daughter for not being wealthy enough. Thank for sharing your story because I have officially become completely affirmed in our choice NOT to buy a house in Park Slope. Our public schools aren't great where we are, but we prefer private schools anyway, regardless.

But back to 11:14, despite your feelings of envy, you know it's the PS SAHMommies who are the jealous ones right? Nobody cattily picks on other women like that, without being miserable people. It's just not a thing that's done by happy, contented women. These women's behavior shows they are bored and miserable staying home all the time so they go through huge efforts to make working mothers feel guilty. If I'm wrong then please, explain WHY on earth any of them would even bother with judging other people's personal matters like that? And worse yet, making effort to exclude the children of working mothers. CREEPY. It's those who do the nitpicking who are the jealous ones. I'm stating that as a known fact of human behavior.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 11:14 AM

I think before any potential buyer decides the 5th street house is too small they should go take a look. I recently traded a 21 foot wide house for a 17 foot wide house. Why? They layout was better. My 17-footer has a center staircase with very large rooms in front and back and gracious halls with high ceilings. Width is not the only consideration, you have to look at the layout and the volume of the rooms. All the rooms in my house are either 18 x 16 or 24 x 16 with high ceilings. And, I can assure you there is a heck of a lot you can do with them. Go see the house for yourself!

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 11:18 AM

The person at 12:18 who said this below is exactly the kind of person I want my children to have no kind of contact with whatsoever:

"Your statement of envy just seems so much like that of a martyr. I don't get it. This is the life you choose. If you want your daughter to have a home without any apartment numbers, then go get another job or tell your husband to quit what he loves so he can make all your dreams come true."

Do you have ANY ability to understand everyone's circumstances are different, 12:18? Or are you simply too self-obsessed? And besides, if this person owns a 2 BR coop in Park Slope, they are obviously making very decent money already. Get your head out of your nether-regions and use the brain inside of it.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 11:24 AM

Park Slope sounds like a bag of fun.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 12:50 PM

Hey 11:14, you deserve better treatment than that and so does your "daughter! That is such a sad thing to hear, that snooty Park Slope mommies actually punish your daughter for not being wealthy enough. Thank for sharing your story because I have officially become completely affirmed in our choice NOT to buy a house in Park Slope. Our public schools aren't great where we are, but we prefer private schools anyway, regardless."

you are a complete idiot. the most idiotic post i think i've ever seen on here, in fact.

you base your decisions on anonymous posts on a blog?!

wow. can't even begin to comprehend what an ignorant person you are.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 1:24 PM

Judging from some of the sick "mother" posts on here, NO WONDER the children today are growing up so fucked up.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 1:26 PM

becasue there is no real community anymore, just single people trying to make a buck and fmailies trying to make a buck. old people are disregarded and thought more of real estate opportunities (when they expire) or as liabilities.

what makes a neighborhood great is different kinds of people, nannies, sahm, non sahm, singles, old people who don';t truck off to work everyday leaving the neighborhood with built in watchdogs, kids, people who sit out front on their porches or stoops, knowing the deli owner, knowing the mailman. prices do not make or break the character of a neighborhood, people do and their attitudes.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 1:42 PM

1:42--sorry, but that describes either the present and/or future state of most every neighborhood in NYC. Actually, all the negative posts about Park Slope could apply to most upper-middle-class/wealthy Manhattan or Brooklyn nabes. What's the news here?

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:12 PM

Have to laugh at the 11:14am poster who criticizes all the "snooty Park Slope mommies" who punish another poster's daughter for not being wealthy enough but doesn't see the irony in proclaiming she prefers private school to (any) public school. I guess those down to earth private school moms will be so much less snooty than the stuck-up public school moms in park slope.

I'm not a park slope mom, but I am a mom in another brownstone neighborhood, and whether or not your kid gets playdates with other kids at a preschool age has nothing to do with your income. (In fact, most families with nannies are far richer than those with stay at home moms). Kids at age 2 and 3 don't make their own playdates, the moms hang out and the kids play. And moms usually hang out with other moms, and not nannies, just like nannies usually make playdates with other nannies, and not moms. I worked part time and on my days home I often had playdates with nannies whom my kid's part-time nanny had made friends with and that was fine, but the reality is, that I probably would not have made friends with the nannies at preschool on my own. When moms/caregivers stay at the playdates, it's hard to call up someone and ask if your babysitter and kid can come over to their house to play. Maybe that makes the moms stuck-up because they should be socializing with the nannies just like they hang out with other moms, but the reality is that working moms aren't hanging out with the nannies any more than the stay at home moms are, so both are equally snobbish, I guess.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:16 PM

There is no news.

The only real bit of news is that people like to pick on Park Slope, even though, as you say it really is not a lot different than many other upper middle class neighborhoods around the country. Not just in NYC.

The difference is that Park Slope has a lot more benefits than it does negatives. Obviously.

It is not one of the most expensive neighborhoods because of coincidence.

It's a little thing called supply and demand. More people want to move to Park Slope than other neighborhoods in Brooklyn. That's a fact. It's the reason why someone can ask 1.9 million dollars for the home listed above and probably get close to it.

Everyone wanting to say nasty things about it, simply don't understand that while you might not like it, lots of other people do. Otherwise it would be inexpensive.

Seems so simple, right? It's not when you have a huge chip on your shoulder as evidenced by a handful of posters on this thread.

If you know anything about human behavior, you can hear the envy and jealousy in some of these posts like it's smacking you in the face. I appreciate the ones who at least admit it.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:22 PM

Getting back to the Open Houses, that 3rd Place listing is ridiculous. 2.4 million for a space that needs to be totally refigured if you want more than 2 bedrooms and the living space is on the ground floor and not the parlor. I think the going rate in Carroll Gardens might be 2.4 million (maybe) for a perfectly renovated triplex plus a ground floor rental, but not for this. Renta income may defray $700,000 in mortgage, so you are paying 1.7 million for a duplex. Way overpriced.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:30 PM

Sorry, I did see the PS house and it is small no matter how you slice it - it does have a great basement but it's not worth 200-300K (which is about the premium they are adding to this house) when that kind of work only takes 20-30K to do yourself. I also think all this trashing of PS is a bit silly and at the very least should be brought elsewhere, not hogging this list. I actually own near this listing, so have a vested interest in having property values rise in PS -- but in spite of that, I think it hurts the neighborhood to put a house like this at such a price - what does that say about the kind of people who can move here? This house is overpriced. I tend to think that those who say otherwise are either brokers or other owners trying to pump up their own property values. Brownstoner is such a phenomenon that brokers/owners are no fools - they need to seed the boards to stoke the price increases.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:37 PM

2:37--discussion, trash-talk or otherwise, of a neighborhood is relevant to this board. Especially when considering that the PS "quality-of-life" is what makes it one of the most expensive neighborhoods. So people have differing opinions on what that quality-of-life is or isn't. It's not such a big deal.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 2:51 PM

I agree with 3:01. Yes, inventory is still lean which is propping up some prices, and yet a number of places are lingering on the market, requiring price decreases, finding pickier buyers, etc. We've seen a number of houses have to cut prices and are still not sold. If I were a broker, I would take the opposite tack and price aggressively low right now to spur a bidding war - that's what happened with our current place - it attracted *tons* of attention at the open house since it was so well priced, and wound up going over asking. These days, it seems like a number of brokers are just asking the most aggressive (and often outlandish) prices because they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the peak which alas is behind us. That said, even a number of brokers are admitting that the market has changed. This winter will indeed be interesting.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 3:10 PM

lowering of prices will only be a boon to brooklyn.

it will suck out a few more of the creative types from manhattan seeking deals before the next run up (i'm guessing maybe 2010) and furthering the diversity of our neighborhoods.

it's a win, win.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 3:14 PM

It is amazing how aggressive the brokers are in jacking prices up, with Corcoran taking a bold lead. I have a feeling this will actually work against them, because inventory will back up fast rather than being steadily sold off at reasonable prices. There have been many more properties listed in the past 4 weeks than in the two months prior, and I suspect that listings will accelerate through the end of the year.

And this is all about inventory.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 3:39 PM

"When I'm working, the kids complain that I don't cook dinner, don't do enough laundry, can't come to school functions....

Then, when they have my undivided attention, they want to buy some expensive toy or gadget, and I have to say I don't have the cash. They tell me to get back to work."

your kids sound like spoiled brats.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 4:19 PM

inventory always rises this time of year, 3:39.

clearly you don't know much about real estate.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 4:21 PM

I'm not 3:39, but you're full of shit 4:21.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 4:31 PM

any idiot knows the hardest times to sell are right before/during the holidays (i.e. NOW) and during the dead of summer.

are you really THAT stupid, 4:31.

we've been lucky to have an extended period of warm weather so it doesn't feel like november is less than a week away.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 5:08 PM

2:22pm, I am not jealous of having to live next door to mean catty people. Sorry. We live very close to Park Slope and can go there all we want for shopping or restaurants, which are the best things about Park Slope. Meanwhile we get to have neighbors who are good, kindly, generous people.

Only the most shallow people on the planet are constantly convinced everybody is jealous of them. It's a really unappealing trait. It's also a symptom of borderline personality disorder. Might want to look into that.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 5:29 PM

You have got to be kidding me, 1:24. How can you even post here sounding so dumb.

What part of my post made you think we decided where to buy our house, based on one post on Brownstoner? Didn't I say we ALREADY own a house elsewhere? Sure I did. Which means, I'll take this slowly for you, that decision was made long ago before this thread. Which means, are you with me? Which means all I was saying was the comments on this thread AFFIRMED my PREVIOUS, get that now, PREVIOUS, decision to buy elsewhere.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 5:33 PM

i am 2:22 and don't live in park slope. not sure i need to look into anything actually.

i think you need to look into calling an entire neighborhood of people...about 70,000 in all...mean and catty.

sounds like you're the one with issues.

no one wanted to play with you on the playground as a kid?

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 5:35 PM

Nobody wanted to play with me as a kid.

I had trouble adjusting.

I wanted to meet other people like me, who had no friends when they were kids.

I met them, in Park Slope.

Now I'm happy. People play with me.

Will you play with me?

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 6:04 PM

No, guest at 4:19, they sound like KIDS.

But you sound like an asshole.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 7:31 PM

I am the poster who commented that my daughter doesn't have a lot of playdates with her preschool classmates because I am working and I don't have the ability to make playdates during the week.

I should clarify that I understand this mentality completely. The women I have met are actually very nice and kind, but the reality is that at this age, playdates are just as much about the moms as the kids, and sending my daughter with her sitter is an awkward situation for the adults if they don't hit it off.

I just wanted to say this because I would hope that no one writes off what I believe to be a truly wonderful neighborhood because I am trying to adjust to new type of social environment and help my daughter do the same. Perhaps I should have been more careful with my words. The truth is, I just don't have time to do playdates during the week because I work...which I feel guilty about...(typical mother guilt, which I believe runs across economic and social boundaries).

anyway, i do hope we'll own a brownstone one day. and i'd love to own the 5th Street house though I prefer a parlor kitchen. it's just, well, about a million bucks out of our range. :-)

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 7:44 PM

Any hating on other nabes is really self-hate as I find the people in CG, PS, Clint Hill, Cobble Hill and Ditmas fairly similar. But I guess it's human nature to differntiate yourself to fell better. Why else are there so many conflicts in the world.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 8:54 PM

I say we all take a break from Brownstoner this weekend and catch up with the world on BBC. At the very least, it's more relevant.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 8:55 PM

No offense 12:18, but that's a pretty stupid comment. I work at a bulge bracket investment bank recruiting for their front office. Neither I or my husband could ever get those jobs even if we were willing to work 80 hour weeks. We came from working class backgrounds and put ourselves through undergrad and grad schools at state schools. We did well, but since we had to work our way through school we were more like top 25% of class instead of top 10%. Oh yeah, and we aren't connected, which still matters A LOT. I suspect you're one of those well heeled narrow minded Republicans who justifies your privileged life and assuage your guilt by assuming the rest of us choose not to work that hard. My husband works 60-70 hours a week and makes $115K. It's insulting to hear you think out loud.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 9:07 PM

Are you fore real, 9:07?

You sound like the most bitter woman to ever walk the face of the earth.

You're a characature of yourself at this point.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 9:15 PM

i love that people think you have to be connected or top 10% at yale to work on wall street. so ignorant.

i don't even have a degree in finance, or even close for that matter and landed a job on wall street when i first got to nyc.

yup. went to a state school. nope..not republican. nor connected.

i guess i just don't write things off before i try.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 9:21 PM

Re: state of the market - Brown Harris Stevens Fall-Winter 07 report just came in NY Times today, and pointed out that average townhouse prices in brownstone Bklyn, per square foot, went down significantly from 3Q06 ($709/sf) to 1Q07 ($568/sf). 2-bedroom apts went down in price by 4% in the past year (interestingly, smaller apts kept their value better, as testified by recent NYT article too - no word in BHS report how 3BR's did). A word of warning to those over-aggressive brokers - winter is coming (despite the recent warm weather). And as for that Warren Lewis PS house, they are asking over 833/sf - well over the average - it really is nuts. According to the BHS report, $1.3 would be the price at the average BHS cites. Granted, inventory is low which is driving up prices - but that much?!? Insane...

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 10:56 PM

Why does everyone assume that everyone in PS is snooty and wealthy? I have friends who bought as recently as 2000 and were able to buy a pretty mint 4-story townhouse in Center Slope at that time for just under $1million (they live in duplex and have 2 rentals). There are lots of families here who just were lucky enough to buy before prices really accelerated, and they actually have relatively modest incomes (by Manhattan/Wall St standards). The PS food coop, whatever its detractors say, is incredibly diverse demographically, and there are lots of mixed race families here. I think it's all the new folks who are buying at the high prices who are indeed much more moneyed than the older buyers - but really, folks in PS are a very varied lot. I suspect much of the PS bashing is simply people who have not spend much time here.

Posted by: guest at October 27, 2007 11:00 PM

So wait, being "moneyed", or being able to afford a Park Slope house at today's prices, makes one inherently inferior and less moral than someone who cannot afford it? And having money automatically = being snooty? Grow up people.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:38 AM

The PS bashing is also kind of weirdly inconsistent: PS is otoh snobby/wealthy and otoh hippie/crunchy. I'm about to move to PS from the UWS and I expect it will be like any other neighborhood -- mix of good and bad people.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:54 AM

There are so many more nannies on the UWS or UES of Manhattan, its no comparison. Park Slope has more SAHM.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 3:01 AM

This is not PS bashing, but simply a fact. As the above poster states, if you don't have big bucks and you want a house, you need SEVERAL renals. So what are these people and their kids living in? Basically a two bedroom apartment?

Move to Ditmas Park and actually LIVE in a house for that money. It's true - it's what PS used to be and the schools are pretty good and getting better all the time (just like PS used to be...). Get your hands dirty and build a community.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 9:47 AM

This is not PS bashing, but simply a fact. As the above poster states, if you don't have big bucks and you want a house, you need SEVERAL rentals. So what are these people and their kids living in? Basically a two bedroom apartment?

Move to Ditmas Park and actually LIVE in a house for that money. It's true - it's what PS used to be and the schools are pretty good and getting better all the time (just like PS used to be...). Get your hands dirty and build a community.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 9:52 AM

Agreed Ditmas is nice, but why is Ditmas always being pushed as more affordable than brownstones? Ditmas houses need tons and tons of work. We went to see some, when we were looking for a house and the conditions were dismal in those houses. They need all new siding, new insulation in the walls, total gut renovations of basements, total gut renovations of kitchens, new roof, new mechanicals. Anybody know how much that costs? Do NOT underestimate the importance of present condition, when searching for a house. Or that's where all your money will go, for years and years. No vacations, no extra goodies. Just the house. They're very expensive to heat, too. I love woodframe houses, and always defend them. But please don't tell people they'll save a lot of money by buying one! That's so wrong.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 10:07 AM

I don't think the snobbiness in PS is connected to wealth. There is plenty of wealth in fringe neighborhoods too. What PS has that those other neighborhoods don't is an elitist attitude, very well entrenched. And sure, why not? The people in PS feel proud to be in such a desireable neighborhood that is getting nationwide attention. They are members of a special clique, a club, and they're relishing it.

Which is okay. But please, at least admit it. The thing that reflects so badly on Park Slopers is the fact they believe themselves superior as parents and generally superior over all the other people in Brooklyn, but they get all defensive and nasty when they're called out on it. As a kid I used to live in a community that was very elitist and prideful, but all the smart, cool people admitted it and joked about it. What Park Slopers never do is self-reflection or have any humor about their situation. They take themselves and their neighborhood very very seriously. Again, which is really unappealing. It's a sure way to get picked on. Human nature.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 11:06 AM

You people are nuts if you think you get a better value in Ditmas. I saw three houses in Ditmas over the summer, before the crunch, and they were priced between 1.7-2.5. Two of the three needed total renos, and the upkeep is incredibly expensive. While I understand the neighborhood is drawing more amenities, etc., I walked around different areas at different times of the day, and it seemed pretty spread out and isolated to me. Especially for that kind of money.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 11:32 AM

You won't be the first, or the last, 11:06--but your cement-headed, broad-brush lambasting of an entire neighborhood's 'elitist attitude' where they 'believe themselves superior parents' and no one 'jokes about it' is almost too inane to respond to. Almost.

Now I'M going to generalize and guess that you're either some early 20's schmuck who has "figured it all out" or just a straight-up dimwit (age group unimportant). Either way, you relieve people of having to point out your myopic stupidity by sharing your scientific studies with everyone here.

Do me (and everyone who agrees with me) a favor: if you have some personal observations you wish to share on how awful you believe an entire neighborhood of individuals to be, please don't confuse those opinions with anything resembling a fact.

And better yet, go back to your elitist, smart, cool, prideful burg and bask in your collected reflected superiority to those in Park Slope who foolishly (every last resident, because it's all about groupthink in PS) believed they were better than you and your cool cat crew.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 12:02 PM

Park Slope is overpriced. The people on this site who are defending it are simply trying to justify the insance prices they paid or hope to get when they sell.

Your focus on this one neighborhood is way out of proportion to its significance to the borough.

You really want a nice house with lots of details, no need for tennants and allows you to still send your kids to private school? Buy in Bed-Stuy.

And for all of you idiots who are going to make racist comments about Bed-Stuy, leave the lily-white bubble you live in for a few and go see the the neighborhood. It is much more livable and the people are infinitely more friendly.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 12:26 PM

Look, even if Bed Stuy were populated with pasty white Irish working class, the lack of amenities and shopping would deter me from moving to that neighborhood, just as it does now. I love to walk and there's no place to walk to in Bed Stuy. Sorry pal. I'll take a Park Slope brownstone with a tenant or two over Bed Stuy anyday.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 12:41 PM

That's where you are WAY wrong, 12:26.

Park Slope is significant. And no, not because it's the only neighbrohood in New York City to win these stupid awards for top 10 neighborhood, or top 10 eco friendly neighborhood in the country.

The reason it is important is because it BEGAN the entire wave of gentrification of Brooklyn. Back in the 60's when many people would not even have set foot in Brooklyn, much less lived here and when neighborhood after neighborhood was red-lined, a few brave souls moved to Park Slope and little by little brought back the homes and eventually the community.

It has now been mimicked by Ft. Greene, Prosepct Heights, Clinton Hill, Cobble Hill, Bed Stuy, etc etc.

If it weren't for those "hippies" who were brave enough to move to Brooklyn when no one else even wanted to cross the bridge, Brooklyn would perhaps not be a destination that it has become today.

There is some significance to the neighborhood.

It has reaped the reward of decades of hard work and determination by many of its residents.

You might find that insignificant, but I don't.

I don't want to move to Brownsville or East New York now so I know how rough it must have been for these people to move into a community in need and turn it around and allow it to prosper.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:10 PM

"No, guest at 4:19, they sound like KIDS.

But you sound like an asshole."

maybe. but i would never had told my parents to go get to work to buy me more toys.

that's ridiculous that that is accepted as standard behavior from "kids".

it's obnoxious.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:21 PM

My parents would never have allowed me to talk to them like that.

It's disgusting that you've raised your kids to be such spoiled, rotten, back-talking, ungrateful rodents.

I've seen so many kids behave like this, and it's the fault of the mother and father, many of whom are not cut out for parenthood because they are too consumed with themselves.

It's become such that everyone feels they SHOULD have kids, but very few people actually make a real decision about whether or not they really WANT to have kids.

Lots of drones in this here United States.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:50 PM

Park Slope is significant because it is the largest enclave of intact late 19th century architecture in the United States.

Kinda significant, considering this blog is named after said architecture, don't ya think?

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 2:10 PM

Hi, I'm 11pm Oct 27 and I certainly did not mean to imply that being monied/wealthy = snooty. I'm sure there are people in PS of modest means who are snooty about other things (i.e. perhaps self-righteous) and people with money who are extremely nice. What I really meant to say is that PS is diverse, and that it's silly to label an entire neighborhood as being monolithic. It's true that people who have been buying of late are much more likely to be significantly wealthier than people who bought earlier, and I do think that overall, that can change the tenor of a neighborhood (certainly, I suspect it has a lot to do with all the PS bashing that has arisen) but the people who have been here a long time are pretty entrenched too. I live/own in PS and my own experience is that people overall are very nice and community-minded, regardless of their socioeconomic bracket. Still, I think houses are indeed overpriced at this moment.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 3:49 PM

overpriced is not the correct word here.

overpriced means people aren't buying them. which they are.
otherwise we'd have a glut of properties on the market.

the correct word is expensive. park slope is expensive.

it will only become overpriced if people stop buying the expensive properties, thus sellers will have to reduce prices so that people will buy them.

i believe there are a few properties in park slope that are overpriced...they are the ones that have been sitting on the market for 6 months untouched. but the neighborhood certainly is not. people have been buying and inventory is still incredibly low.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 3:58 PM

Does the 5th street house only have 2 full baths, one of which is in the basement??

Weird.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 4:40 PM

Also, PS 39 (5th street house zoned for this school) is no PS 321.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 4:42 PM

Park Slope was not the first gentrified neighborhood in Brooklyn. It was Brooklyn Heights, the first historic neighborhood in New York City.

Of course, there have always been good neighborhoods in Brooklyn, they just didn't carry the cache of more expensive and well-known areas. Park Slope did not start a trend, despite what you think. Individuals in various areas moved into several neighborhoods and slowly made changes. To imply that the whole borough would be crap or waited with bated breath to follow in the footsteps of Park Slope's gentrification is incredibly obnoxious.

As for the architechture of Park Slope. It is impressive, despite the decades of alteration, e.g. removal of stoops and fireplace mantels, that detract from its original intent. Unfortunately, pretty facades don't make a great nieghborhood.

There are plenty of places to walk to in Bed-Stuy. You obviously don't live there. That is why you say that. It just makes you uncomfortable to a) live among people who don't look and live just like you do and b) admit to your friends and family that you don't live in some other, more expensive area.

The people of Park Slope need to get off their high horses. Just because some magazine tells you that you live in a "Top 10 neighborhood," doesn't mean it is better. It means you buy into the unjustifiable hype that the magazine is promoting. Oddly enough, the most livable block in Brooklyn is in Fort Green (if you beleive that hype.)

By trying to defend a neighborhood, you simply prove the point the detractors are trying to make. The attitude of its residents is not necessary or justified (like the prices of its real estate). You are no better or worse than everyone else, even though you paid more to live in the same city. You have no special access to the services of your area or the city as a whole. The joy of living in a less expensive area is that my mortgage is lower, I benefit from the services of any neighborhood of my choosing and I don't have to put up with obnoxious neighbors. That is well worth a slightly longer walk to the local supermarket or coffee shop.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 5:05 PM

I love the people sanctimoniously telling people to leave their "bubble" and move to Bed Stuy -- and in the next breath saying to ship their kids to private school. No bubble there!

Bitch all you want about the "elitists" of Park Slope, at least they rolled up their sleeves and built a community -- including the schools. Instead of holing up in their detailed brownstones like fortresses and congratulating themselves on their "enbrace" of their neighbors.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 5:18 PM

That's where you are WAY wrong, 12:26.

Park Slope is significant. And no, not because it's the only neighbrohood in New York City to win these stupid awards for top 10 neighborhood, or top 10 eco friendly neighborhood in the country.

The reason it is important is because it BEGAN the entire wave of gentrification of Brooklyn. Back in the 60's when many people would not even have set foot in Brooklyn, much less lived here and when neighborhood after neighborhood was red-lined, a few brave souls moved to Park Slope and little by little brought back the homes and eventually the community.

It has now been mimicked by Ft. Greene, Prosepct Heights, Clinton Hill, Cobble Hill, Bed Stuy, etc etc.

If it weren't for those "hippies" who were brave enough to move to Brooklyn when no one else even wanted to cross the bridge, Brooklyn would perhaps not be a destination that it has become today.

There is some significance to the neighborhood.

It has reaped the reward of decades of hard work and determination by many of its residents.

You might find that insignificant, but I don't.

I don't want to move to Brownsville or East New York now so I know how rough it must have been for these people to move into a community in need and turn it around and allow it to prosper.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 1:10 PM

I have lived in Brooklyn since 1967 when I was a 7 year old and you really can't be serious and if you are you are very ignorant or unaware of Brooklyn and its population. I think you believe Brooklyn is okay because people came across the bridge some years ago and saved it from the people who now have been moved to East New York? You are so smart!

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 5:51 PM

Right on 5:18.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 5:53 PM

Yeah, somehow bashing Park Slope while promoting Bed Stuy seems so much more rational, 5:05.

Pot.

Kettle.

Black.

much?

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:17 PM

5:51...by the way you write, it's obvious you've lived in Brooklyn since 1967. Did you make it past the 5th grade??

My god. Talk about a run on sentence.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:23 PM

"Also, PS 39 (5th street house zoned for this school) is no PS 321."

You're right, 4:42-- 39 has a much more ethnically and socio-economically diverse student body and less crowded classroms.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:38 PM

I've heard really wonderful things about ps. 39.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:44 PM

Back to the current RE: I do think Park Slope is overpriced. 3:58 is wrong. There IS inventory building up and not moving. Prices are dropping- I've seen several specific properties drop their prices which would indicate that they were indeed overpriced (although in line with all PS prices). Just b/c there is a buyer or two who is willing to buy at the current prices absolutely does NOT mean that there are enough buyers to move all of the inventory. Prices in PS are already coming down and they will continue to do so a bit. They are just ridiculously high and pricing out the specific demographic that has made the prices run up in the first place (the Manhattanites with a bit of money but not the silver spoon elite).

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:46 PM

So how were the open houses?

Enough with the class and neighborhood pontification.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:51 PM

5:51...by the way you write, it's obvious you've lived in Brooklyn since 1967. Did you make it past the 5th grade??

My god. Talk about a run on sentence.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:23 PM

Thanks for the insight friend, but I passed through Brooklyn Tech on my way to NYU.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:53 PM

Where is the run up in inventory, 6:46?

I see almost zero studios for sale in all of Park Slope.

I see very few one bedrooms that are not in the Novo or one of the other new condo developments along 4th or in Greenwood Heights.

I see a few 2 bedrooms, very few of which have been on the market more than a month.

And I see handful of townhomes for sale. Most have sold in a month or less barring one I can think of at 52 Berkeley or something that's been sitting for a while. A couple others I can think of that have sat.

Do you have any perspective of time?

It used to be in the late 90's there would be 100 townhomes for sale at any given time. Hundreds of 1 and 2 bedrooms.

You really think inventory is not low now in the grand scheme of things, or your memory only began at the start of the housing boom 7 years ago?

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:53 PM

You'll have to excuse 6:46.

He/she believes that if a home doesn't sell in a week, it's "not moving"

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 6:56 PM

Park Slopers are not the only ones who rolled up their sleeves and got to work. Nice attempt to self-justify and condescend at the same time. Maybe your should talk to your therapist(s) about your inability to accept an opposing point of view or criticism.

You just can't admit that the world does not revolve around your neighborhood or that the price you paid doesn't justify what you actually got for the money.

You all deserve each other and your self-important ways. The rest of the borough should be glad that you are too self-obsessed to ruin any other neighborhood.

Park Slope is overpriced.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 7:15 PM

Broken record much, 7:15?

I think you need to talk to your therapist about your nasty, bitchy, ignorant ways.

Who's right?

Considering the Park Slope boosters are not picking on any one neighborhood in its entirety and you are, I'd say YOU are the one with the problemas.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 7:19 PM

Actually, 7:15...I think if you actually new anything about Park Slope or it's residents you'd know that they are pretty happy about their neighborgood. Everyone I've met that lives there, really and truly loves it there.

Maybe some people are trying to project things to cover their investments as you seem to be saying, but my experience is that a lot of them just truly love their neighborhood.

Nothing wrong with that. I do see something wrong with your pretty pessimistic comment suggesting that someone would only say nice things about their neighborhood because they own property there.

Doesn't say much for where you live. Or your personality for that matter.

Park Slope is constanly beraded...most of the time for pretty asinine things. I see nothing wrong with defending it. I see something wrong with not having pride in one's neighborhood.

Sure, they could sit back and let people make fun all they want and just shut up. But you know what...this world has become such that people shut up and don't voice their concerns enough if you ask me.

So I'm happy for the defensive comments. It's nice to hear that someone cares about something enough to stand up for it. Maybe it spreads to other facets of life as well...more important things.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 7:31 PM

6:46 here. I admittedly cannot comment on any studios, 1brs, etc. and am referring exclusively to the townhouse/brownstone market. But I have yet to see but a handful (maybe 2-4) out of the 15 or so houses that I've been watching for over a month move. And several of them have dropped their prices. I have brokers emailing me constantly with enticements to "make an offer at a price i feel comfortable with", etc. I have been looking for about 6 months (casually) in PS and there IS a difference in the past 4-6 weeks. The very fact that prices have come down on specific properties and that properties are not moving very quickly is what I am referring to. I do believe strongly (and even have a friend who is a broker in Brooklyn who admits as much) that prices are going to come down in PS- the inventory by and large is overpriced.

The buyer who is interested in a $1.8-$3.x million dollar home (the rough band of prices for brownstones in PS) is heavily driven by wall street, and wall street bonuses are going to be massively affected this year. So most buyers in that price band are just not buying- in hopes of prices softening and better deals in the next few months. The combo of bad bonues, the winter coming, etc. is going to affect PS.

I do agree that the amount of inventory is low. But I think the amount of willing buyers at that price point is even lower, so prices are already and will continue to come down. Supply and demand 101.

(Can't really comment on the co-op and condo market as I don't follow that).

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 8:01 PM

i commented before, but it's worth repeating

Any hating on other nabes is really self-hate as I find the people in CG, PS, FG, Clint Hill, Cobble Hill and Ditmas remarkably similar. But I guess it's human nature to differentiate yourselves in order to feel better.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 8:22 PM

Can everyone stop this repetitive nonsense and comment on the properties?

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 8:36 PM

Oh because you seem to have a lot to add to the property discussion, 8:36.

You are nothing but more of the same repetitive nonsense, as you call it.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 9:04 PM

look, i'm better than all of you.

Posted by: guest at October 28, 2007 11:25 PM

what the hell does it take to buy a house in a good brownstone neighborhood these days? I'm really curious. We've been looking for years (and in the meantime bought an apt that is now too small for our growing family), during which time our salaries have increased about 5-10% per year, and we are now at about 150K combined. We are lucky enough to have inherited some family cash for a down payment - in the neighborhood of 500K, plus we have our own savings to add to that. In the last few years, we poo-pooed brownstones in PS at the 1.4-1.6 mark, thinking they were overpriced, only to find now that this is considered a modest sum. So are the buyers of these homes all making 300-500K per year or more, or is it just manhat