House of the Day: 128 Lincoln Place

It's beginning to look like the murmurings of limited brownstone inventory in the Slope are a trifle exagerated.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 1:44 PM

Too bad it doesn't have the original stoop railing as do the ones on both sides of it.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 1:44 PM

It's beginning to look like the murmurings of the troll who doesn't know his ass from his elbow is back.

One guy owns 108 and 104 Lincoln.

Now this one.

Now all the sudden PS has a glut of brownstones, huh 1:44?

Keep track of how fast they sell and get back to us, will ya?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 1:53 PM

Settle down, 1:53. You're beginning to sound extremely defensive.

What, the phone not ringing as much these days?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 1:59 PM

Hey, why not 3.4 million? This puppie will not get funded. The meltdown has begun on Wall St..

http://blownmortgage.com/2007/10/15/dead-man-walking-wholesale-lending-is-marching-towards-extinction/

The What

Someday this war is gonna end

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:04 PM

Super SIVs - A Fraudulent Attempt at Concealment

http://www.safehaven.com/article-8626.htm

More ass reaming, please.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end.....

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:07 PM

Would rather sound defensive than sound like I don't have a clue of what I'm talking about.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:12 PM

Yet you manage both.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:16 PM

I went to 108 and 128. It was a bit harder to assess 108 b/c it was under construction, but from what I can tell, it's actually going to turn out to be a much better place. To the tune of $200k? Not sure. But then again, if you're willing to spend almost $3mm, I'm not sure what kind of difference the extra $200k really makes. I just thought the original details that were being restored in 108 were much more impressive. And with the new kitchens and baths that would go in, this place would be pretty amazing in the end. 128 was big and pretty nice (nice parlor floor) but nothing extraordinary- esp. at that price tag!

Honestly, we thought 60 St. Marks Ave which had an open house last weekend was MUCH nicer than both of these places, and it was $2.8mm. Maybe the location is worse though? Also, 202 Prospect Place (a total bargain at $2.4mm in comparison it seems) was totally beautiful too (on par with 108 and 128) but in Prospect Heights so that location is obviously a bit discounted.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:16 PM

For your viewing pleasure.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4840432044369494646&hl=de

The movie 'Maxed Out' enjoy.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end.......

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:16 PM

Meh.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 2:26 PM

To the incredibly defensive (why?) 1:53 poster: there are actually quite a few Park Slope brownstones on the market, and many less-than-perfect houses in prime PS locations have been on the market for some time. I have no interest in doing the homework for you, but if you doubt what I say, just do a NY Times PS search, then cross-reference your results with the individual broker websites and you'll see they're still on the market. Just this week, I counted an additional THREE new PS listings, NOT INCLUDING the three houses on Lincoln Place.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:03 PM

THREE new listings in one of the largest neighborhoods in Brooklyn???

Say it ain't so!

Sounds like a glut to me!!!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:07 PM

Good god 3:07/1:53. Settle down and call everyone on your sign-in sheets again.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:11 PM

That doesn’t mean buyers should expect to get apartments for a song, especially in Brooklyn’s most coveted neighborhoods. Data recently released by the Corcoran Group show that sales in and around the three areas where Corcoran has offices — Brooklyn Heights, Fort Greene and Park Slope — closed at all-time highs in July, August and September.

Buyers paid an average of 11 percent more for apartments than they did a year ago and closed 28 percent more transactions. The sales volume of single-family houses in Brooklyn rose by 63 percent from the year before, and buyers paid an average of $1.6 million, according to the Corcoran data.

“The areas that we do, and I can only speak about them, are doing very, very well,” said Frank Percesepe, the regional vice president of the Corcoran Group in Brooklyn. “We’re not finding weakness.”

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:15 PM

where do people move after selling their gorgeous PS brownstones?

curious

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:23 PM

3:15: "Fox reports henhouse is secure."

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:24 PM

Exactly 3:24.

3:15 - you still talking about the data that reflected pre-credit-crisis sales? Those data are less than meaningless.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:39 PM

There is very little turnover, 3:23. That's why there are usually never more than about a dozen brownstones on the market at any one time in the entire neighborhood.

There are still quite a few of the older set who are just now cashing out. There are also a few who went in to make some money on a flip, although that's extremely rare.

For the most part, people buy these homes and stay put for a long while.

I see very few homes sold by young people who are not moving out of state for a job transfer or something of that sort.

Most people buy a brownstone (especially in Park Slope) to live in for the bulk of their life.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:43 PM

3:39. That article was from yesterday.

And I do not believe sales numbers from September are PRE credit crisis numbers.

Why do some of you CONTINUE to be blind to what's happening. Do you really think you're going to get a good enough deal on a brownstone to make it affordable to you by talking shit about the market when real, live hard numbers show you otherwise?

Let me guess...if the numbers for OCT-DEC come back positive, you will say that all the guys in PS wanted to buy their wives a new home for xmas this year to make up for the war in Iraq, but come JAN, prices are gonna nosedive!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:46 PM

Living in Park Slope for the bulk of my life..how scary is that!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:46 PM

What an asinine comment, 3:46.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:49 PM

And that was 3:46, #2.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 3:49 PM

3:46, you are mistaken (and hysterical, not 'hysterically funny', just hysterical).

Deals that closed in September went to contract pre-credit-crisis, so they reflect pre-crisis conditions. Do you need me to explain this more clearly?

I do agree that the #s we'll see in a month or two will be more reflective of the current situation. Should be interesting.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:06 PM

I have no doubt the next numbers released for Park Slope will be higher than for July-August and September.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:11 PM

This block is only getting better (if that's possible) once the former brothel is finished being converted to million-dollar plus-condos.

Looks like it's going to be a beautiful conversion. Such an amazing building.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:14 PM

AP
Oil Futures Hit New Record Above $86
Monday October 15, 4:19 pm ET
By John Wilen, AP Business Writer

These real estate prices will be considered bargain basement soon. When Oil spirals out of control everyone will have no choice but to move to the big cities. Having to drive to work will be a death sentence!

Wake up people, the world is past peak production - Every year from now on demand for oil will rise and the amount that can be pulled out of the ground will shrink.

Buy something in the cities now before it is too late!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:34 PM

4:34 - good god, foaming at the mouth a bit?

Meanwhile gasoline prices have detached from the price of crude and are relatively low:

"While oil prices have soared in recent weeks, gasoline prices have held steady. The average national price of a gallon of gas was unchanged overnight at $2.76, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. Many analysts had expected gas prices to rise to keep pace with oil’s 20 percent rally between late August and late September, but falling demand has kept gas prices in check." Source: MSNBC

Sorry to bust your theory. Here's some more relevant info:

Massive layoffs, negligible bonuses across the board in leveraged finance. Frozen credit markets (yes, still).

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:42 PM

Hey there 1:53/3:07: 3 new listings that ARE NOT the 3 Lincoln Place houses, meaning a total of 6 NEW PS listings in less than 1 week. So there is no shortage right now, quite the opposite, especially factoring in the PS houses that have been SITTING FOR MONTHS.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:42 PM

I'm not familiar with the methodology for the Corcoran report--but uh, is there an independent entity that verifies the Corcoran(and any other brokerage-initiated)data & findings?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:48 PM

4:48- very good question!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:55 PM

heard there are multiple offers on two of the lincoln place homes.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 4:56 PM

4:34 I'm with you.

Some people think the trend back to cities is a fad.

It is not.

It will only become more and more necessary for the world to become increasingly urbanized.

We've done more damage to the environment in the last 40 years through suburbanization than in the previous 200.

It's nice to see someone else paying attention...high oil prices or not.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 5:00 PM

4:34 Here -

4:42, Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but gas prices being detached from oil is very very short term. You think when Oil is over $100, $125, $150, etc., gas prices will not respond? Maybe the government will step in and just sell gas to everyone at a steep loss...Oops that wont work either because they will just have to tax people to pay for it - And 3 guesses who will resist the most -That's right, urbanites like us sick of subsidizing the suburban SUV drivers.

No matter how you slice it, oil is going away fast, and urbanization is going to be back big time. Maybe all that corn in the midwest will save us? Fat chance - You would need to cover the entire United States in corn fields just to supply a quarter of our current oil demand.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 5:10 PM

Is it true...someone told me this weekend at an open house that Park Slope was named one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the country?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 5:17 PM

5:10 - good theory. When is oil going to hit $150, by the way? Do you have ANY idea how much oil traders/speculators have propped up current levels (or how much is a function of a weak dollar?).

We can both guess and be wrong about oil prices, however there are a couple of more important points you need to recognize:

1. Urban living has not been, isn't, and will not be a function of gasoline prices. Not until Mad Max is mayor. There has been MINIMAL price elasticity on gasoline in this country.
2. HEVs - hybrid electric vehicles. Lots more coming.

Now, if your argument had centered around the issue of traffic congestion, I might nod in agreement. But you didn't think of that.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 5:21 PM

This house is nice enough, but nothing special. If it had its original iron stoop balustrade AND that fifth floor dormer (see two houses to the left in photo), I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 6:15 PM

"HEVs - hybrid electric vehicles. Lots more coming."

I certainly hope so, but what fuel will generate the electricity?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 6:23 PM

The trend back to the cities started in the mid-90's and has only strengthened.

Don't know if the What or others were reading this blog last year, but FYI, the exact same doom and gloom predictions were being said about 2007 which turned out to be a year that prices went up again in Brooklyn, not down. I have no crystal ball for 2008, but I'm just pointing that out. Because if the same thing is said every year, how does anyone know if it's just yet again some more Chicken Little predictions?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 6:24 PM

6:23 - coal, nuclear, natural gas, hydro. That's where electricity comes from.

Next question?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 6:34 PM

4:43/5:10 Here again.

I dont want to come off all gloom and doom with extreme "The What-Like" comments. I just think alot of people really dont have any idea what is going on with oil supplies, and the government and private corporations really keep a lid on it tight.

Its kind of like the credit meltdown that many people knew was coming (How could it not with so many subprime and exotic products)but only half heartidly were concerned about - Then SMACK.

Look into any independent research on the oil industry and "Peak Production." you will find that most of the worlds major oil reserves have reached or will reach Peak production within the next 5 years. That means everyday these wells produce less and less oil - nothing you can do about it. China and India are increasing their demand exponentially and the result will be hard times very soon for all of us.

Yes alternative fuels and energy will grow and certainly help. But sadly no one cares to address the problem seriously until - SMACK (See Above)

Anyhow - I dont claim to be a guru or oil expert or anything, but to me common sense says being in the city is the safest place to avoid the worst of this effect.

Ciao

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 6:39 PM

More importantly, cities are places where people have the most freedoms because people who live in the heartland (of any country...not just ours) do not come into contact with people from hundreds of different countries enough to make them open-minded.

This is why coastal areas of any country harbor the most liberal minded people, the most educated, the most worldy and the most travelled. Those who come into contact with primarily people like themselves (see suburbs) are not apt to welcome other people with open arms nor are they typically able to see outside of themselves very easily.

The whole oil thing is a great benefit, but certainly people are not moving to New York City to conserve oil.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:11 PM

What 7:11 describes has only become more pronounced. I can barely talk to my parents about anything, anymore, they've become such rabid, hateful Republicans who are always angry. You'd think Hillary Clinton was Satan the way they talk. I'm not being comedic, I mean that literally. I could never tolerate living near people like that, nor would I ever raise a child there. Unless you're going to live in a liberal college town it is impossible to live anywhere but large cities anymore.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:19 PM

Thank you 6:39 for some decent focus on the oil/energy issues. I don't know if Lincoln Place homeowners or prospective buyers are thinking all too much about these issues right now...but that's another discussion...

Regarding the City vs. Burbs issue:
Much of what has been discussed in the "sustainability" community has been a move to small towns based in agricultural areas.

I am very much saddened at the glut of lousy, unsustainable housing stock (and now all these high rises in NYC) that has been put up for quick profit across North America right at the time all this should have been built along "Passivhaus" guidelines or even more sustainable guidelines. [Passivhaus guidelines are great but the building systems rely on a goodly amount of synthetic insulation materials. Sustainable guidelines often emphasize local materials that are nature-based.]

It is clear we have the technology to build very low-energy use buildings in this latitude (in the "developed world"). There are many across the country and in Europe. There are people around the world living in climates similar to ours who used MUCH less energy but they don't live in three-bedroom/two-bathroom homes... A yurt is great but it's arguably not a sellable lifestyle here.

So, basically, money and politics/power could help make both dense urban and sprawling suburban living possible. Since it does not appear this is likely to happen, give me a small town in an agricultural area with decent roads. Food will get very expensive and growing food in a dense urban environment enough to feed even some of the population seems impossible. And, rightly, as you have argued, suburbs dependent on the car/SUV will not be sustainable.

Let's flock to small villages/towns, not dense cities...I don't really want to be here when food and fuel prices soar and there is growing unrest.

FortGreener
PS I'm growing food right now in Brooklyn!

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:20 PM

7:19...were we separated at birth?

my parents literally....and they are ok with me being gay and all that despite being huge bush loving republicans...STILL....they hate Hillary so much that I think they'd kill her if they thought they could get away with it.

Now I'm not saying anything good or bad about her, but certainly she'd be better than what we've got...but their hatred towards her could very much be described as not unlike that of satan.

I agree that the past years with Bush have really pronounced the liberal vs. conservative views in this country. Bush has managed to cause all of this damage abroad while simultaneously forcing our own society to segregate themselves.

No matter who wins in 08, I see this pattern continuing.

Cities are where it's at. If I ever left NYC, there are very few places left in the U.S. that I'd find attractive.

And I know a lot of people feel the same...more than I think in the past. And I don't just mean the gays...

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:28 PM

7:11 - Don't be absurd - time for a little self-reflection. NYC is one of the more hateful, bitter cities on the planet politically. It just happens to look at the world from the Left. Ever try to have a balanced political discussion in NYC? It's a joke.

I come from a smallish city (fewer than 500,000), not a college town, and I can tell you that the "people like that" who live there are infinitely more pleasant and agreeable than NYC residents, even if I don't share their politics. And I've lived in Manhattan for as long as I lived there.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:36 PM

Sorry - 7:36 here - I meant 7:19 (but I guess 7:11 as well)

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:38 PM

So why do you live here if you find it so hateful and bitter, 7:36? Doesn't say much for your personality.

I personally find NYC to be one of the friendliest places on the planet.

It just takes some patience and getting past the very thin, gruff exterior of some people.

It's easy to be pleasant when you live inside a bubble and pretend like black people, poor people, iraqis and gay people don't exist.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:40 PM

Does anyone have info on recent brownstones that have sold in Park Slope in the last couple of months? How nice were they, prices, etc?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:42 PM

Okay...

I think there is a misconception about "what's out there". Even though I'm a little nervous too about homesteading in places where my "I'm not gay...ask my boyfriend." T-shirt might not be that well-received, still, there seem to be LOTS of people in the hinterlands who are wonderful and not rabid right-wingers. You'd be surprised how many people are like-minded and don't like where things are going out there in the stix. Just got to start talking to people. You'll be surprised sometime.

Sure, there may seem to be barriers in place for certain people outside of cities, but frankly, there are barriers right here in the cities as well.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:46 PM

7:40 - NYC is friendly, you fucking idiot. It isn't friendly "politically", which is what you would have read in my post if you'd opened your fucking eyes.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:50 PM

Saying what a bitter, hateful place NYC is...while living in said city makes you one of the primary contributers to said bitterness and hate, btw.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:51 PM

Funny, I AM adopted, 7:28! So we could be!

A divided American was exactly the Republicans' intent. It serves their every interest. It is their specific strategy going back many years.

As for the manners in NYC, this is the most friendly place I've ever lived. I was raised in the Midwest, went to school in the South, then lived out West before moving here. I've been everywhere. Anybody who thinks NYC is unfriendly is putting out vibes that turn people off. One thing New Yorkers don't is suffer meanies. They'll serve it right back.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:57 PM

7:51 - read 7:50, you stupid fucking moron.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:57 PM

Sure, there are people in the hinterlands who are open-minded...they are just few and far between.

I prefer to live where most of the people are open-minded, not just a select few.

There is a reason why 8 million plus people have gathered in New York City and 25 million surrounding it.

It's not luck, you realize. And it's not a coincidence that the next largest city is half this size. Especially given that we are the only city but Honolulu situated on an island.

It's because a lot of people love New York.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 7:58 PM

"I come from a smallish city (fewer than 500,000), not a college town, and I can tell you that the "people like that" who live there are infinitely more pleasant and agreeable than NYC residents"

I read it. What is your point, Mr. sunshine?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:00 PM

7:36, 7:50, 7:57 = one sick fuck

something we also have a lot of in nyc.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:02 PM

8:00: I'll give you a hint - read the post to which I WAS RESPONDING. That might help. May want to do that in the future if you think you're missing context.

Christ, did people on this blog just drink antifreeze?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:09 PM

Bottoms up, 8:09.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:27 PM

"coal, nuclear, natural gas, hydro. That's where electricity comes from."

Coal: creates yet more greenhouse gas

Nuclear: creates waste that cannot be safely disposed of

Natural gas: running out as quickly as oil

Hydro: more damned rivers screw up ecosystem further

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:30 PM

Did anybody see the Family Guy episode in which the Grim Reaper goes on a date with the lefty Vegan chick from the bookstore?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 8:37 PM

I'm not sure if anyone reading this is still interested in Park Slope real estate prices. But I have to say those prices seem extremely high to me. Either the brokers/sellers are aiming too high or the market has gone up, contradicting all the naysayers.
I have a friend who bought a park block - PS 321 - 20 footer limestone this summer for under 2.8 mil. It needs some work, but is also in great shape.
Now Lincoln Place may be a nice block, but it is not prime Park Slope and these houses are relatively narrow -- plus they need work.
My friend signed her contract in May -- closed in July -- have prices gone up that much since then?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:00 PM

Hate to break it to you, 9:00, but it doesn't get much more "prime park slope" than Lincoln Place. If you don't find this prime, what is?

Anywhere in the named streets....close to 2/3 and Q trains...above 6th is prime.

Anywhere near the F train. Not so prime.

You just said your friends place needed work. So do these. Seems like prices are similar/slightly above which is what one would expect given the continued strong market in Park Slope.

Homes in the named streets between 7th and 8th, or between 8th and PPW are going for over 3 million. Closer to 3.5

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:10 PM

I'd say Prime Park Slope references not only train access, park access and commercial accesss, but also whether or not it falls within the historic district, of which these Lincoln Place homes fall smack in the middle of...

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:13 PM

Well, 9:10 it's a great block -- great area -- but what I meant was it's not on the park block (the block between 8th and PPW) and it's not in PS 321 -- that is an important distinction for many buyers, including my friend.
So what I'm saying is she bought a house two months ago for 2.75 on a park block on one of the prime streets in 321.. needing some work, but not in bad shape..
Perhaps she got a great deal, but there were other houses in the same ballpark in the area.. So the only conclusion I can draw from these new listings is that prices have continued to rise -- even since the spring/summer -- at least in this very particular part of Park Slope. Do you disagree?

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:17 PM

Prime Park Slope is 3rd Street to Berkeley Place from 7th Ave to the Park.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:21 PM

Also my friend's house was 3 feet wider, which also is an advantage.

Look, obviously any comparison is full of all kinds of subjective factors. To me, being in the 321 district and being on the park block are both pluses, all other things being equal.

It's just one piece of data, but it seems to me that either a) prices have risen or b) these prices are unrealistic. I'm hoping it's a)

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:23 PM

I do agree. It does seem prices have increased. A place on Berkeley sold for 3.4 in August...that one was between 8th and the Park I believe. And one between 7th and 8th on Berkeley sold for 2.7 but it needed a TON of work. There's one for sale now on Montgomery for 3. 5 or so and another on 3rd street for 3. 5ish as well. (Spent a lot of Sunday looking around at RE: windows).

I think your friend got a good deal. There have been a few homes in Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill that have seemed to go for 2. 7 so I think "Prime Park Slope" as you call should definitely equal (if not surpass) those prices.

9:21...Lincoln is only one block north of Lincoln, so not quite sure why your cut off is Berkeley, but either way...to me Lincoln is super prime. It's even closer to the Q and the 2/3 which in my opinion is a HUGE asset of the North Slope.

A lot of these brownstone buyers are from Manhattan...lots who work downtown also and having that train access which turns out to be 15 mins to Wall Street or 15 mins to Union Square make a lot of former Manhattanites much more comfortable with living in Brooklyn than they do about feeling trapped to the F train. When I lived farther south on 12th street, it was gorgeous...an amazing part of Park Slope...BUT the one thing I always felt was a bit trapped and disconnected with Manhattan.

I love Brooklyn and most of the time would rather be in Brooklyn over Manhattan but even knowing the 2/3 and Q are so close makes me feel more connected.

I know that might sound strange, but it's true for me. Maybe others don't feel the same. Or maybe people spending 3 million dollars on homes don't take the train much. Guess that's possible also.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:31 PM

I think the north slope is great, and the access to the subway is better -- however, the school district thing is a real factor also.

I know some people scoff at the idea that someone buying a 3 million dollar house is worried about public schools, but many do, ask any broker, I mean, for my friend, to send 3 kids to private school would get to be about $30,000/yr.

I know people complain about 321 yadda yadda, it's not the be-all and end-all, but it is a decent option as opposed to no option at all.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 9:43 PM

For 9:31: what's the 3rd Street house you mentioned? I haven't seen any listings on that street.

Posted by: guest at October 15, 2007 11:46 PM

9:43#1, What private school costs 30K/year for three kids? I think you may mean 30k/year per kid...no?

9:43#2, Thank you for your critique...

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:23 AM

I can't remember where I saw the 3rd Street house. Maybe it has already sold. It was on some window along 7th avenue...

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:47 AM

"where do people move after selling their gorgeous PS brownstones?"

me-Clinton Hill.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:44 PM

What is it with the name calling? It is such an unconvincing way to make the open-minded, tolerant liberal arguement. I'm just curious why these "liberals" don't see the logical extention?

So -if your parents like Bush (which is a bit odd) or see Hillary as satan (not so odd) you can't speak to them? Why not? Don't you love them? Can you only respect them if they share your opinions? Not liberal by my book. Maybe I'm crazy- or a real liberal. Not.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:56 PM

blah, blah, blah.... Blah, blah, blah? Oh. Blah, blah blah.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 5:17 PM

I think the blah blah blah is directed at the mindless blather from the swirly-eyed idiots in 8:30 and 9:43.

If not, if sure as hell should be.

Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 9:09 PM

Actually 1:56pm, it's my father who has nearly disowned ME when I was younger because I'm a liberal, not the other way around. I'm far more tolerant of other people's beliefs than my Republican parents are.

It's uh, sort of the definition of liberal. Duh.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 12:29 AM

11:25 - Does this get you cheap applause in Williamsburg? Mindless clone. I think my pet fish is more thoughtful.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 4:58 AM

7:19 said- " I could never tolerate living near people like that, nor would I ever raise a child there. Unless you're going to live in a liberal college town it is impossible to live anywhere but large cities anymore."

12:29- I am not even sure what "nearly" disowned me means but your next statement really rings true as a repsonse to 7:19.

"It's uh, sort of the definition of liberal. Duh."

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 8:38 AM

Really- we could all live in a world with clean water, rainbows and unicorns where everyone would be like the beautiful "liberal" people on this website!

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 8:48 AM

Agreed- show me a meaner blog.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 9:09 AM

The 'I saw your nanny' blog. Sounds like a similar cast of characters. Very mean.

Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 9:11 AM