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October 4, 2007
House of the Day: 432 Prospect Place
This two-family house on a 131-foot lot at 432 Prospect Place will likely appeal to many in the market: Nice original details, modern kitchen, landscaped backyard. One unusual twist is that the floor-through rental unit is on the top floor as opposed to the bottom, raising unaddressed questions about the need for an internal staircase in the owner's triplex. As for the asking price of $1,725,000, were it a block or two to the west, it would be a lay-up. Not that neighborhood boundaries are the most important thing when it comes to pricing, but it'll be interesting to see whether a house that's technically in Crown Heights can command this kind of number.
432 Prospect Place [NY Times] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I live next to this house. yup, technically CH but nothing dramatic happens as one crosses over Washington on Prospect. it's a lovely block....but what's up with the stairs? wouldn't want someone coming thru my home to get to their's...
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:08 PM
2:08
Is it a south facing garden? Is the block sealed or can outsider interlopers get into the backyards? What's the nearest subway? Looks like a gorgious building and reasonably priced. thx.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at October 4, 2007 2:12 PM
RE: "the floor-through rental unit is on the top floor as opposed to the bottom, raising unaddressed questions about the need for an internal staircase in the owner's triplex".
Our last apartment, before buying our house, was a top floor floorthrough on the park blockof 14th Street. There was NO separate stairway in the owner's duplex. The owners usually, but not always, kept the pocket doors to their front parlor, which we passed daily, closed.
The arrangement actually worked fairly well, although there were compromises to the privacy of both owners and tenants. FWIW the owners were VERY careful in screening us, going as far as visiting us in our previous apartment. Nevertheless, I wonder what might have happened had we NOT gotten along well.
However well the arrangement worked out, when we started house-hunting we were determined NOT to be landlords ourselves. Our former landlords were also happy to take over the entire house when we left, but the main reason was that they were expecting a baby whose nursery would have otherwise been the wooden shed, attached to their ground floor rear bedroom.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at October 4, 2007 2:15 PM
Pretty.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:16 PM
Is there a floorplan anywhere? Is this a For Sale By Owner?
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:26 PM
the 2,3 at Eastern Parkway/Brooklyn museum is five min walk and the Q,D station at Carlton/Park Place is less then ten min walk. i
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:44 PM
There is an internal staircase that self contains the triplex from the rental unit that is not pictured.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:55 PM
Very nice, clean spaces you could easily make your own. It doesn't look like you'd have to do a thing before moving in there.
The garden floor could be turned into an aprtment (would be nice to see pictures). Is changing the CofO from 2 to 3 family that difficult?
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:03 PM
How rich do you have to be to be able to afford this house?
I have about 800K in equity in my place (I'm guessing...its really what the market will bear). I figure if I sold it, I'd clear (conservatively) $650-700 (that includes my payments to the tax man) for a nice downpayment. But I still couldn't afford this with a lowish six figure salary.
What kinda salaries do you need for these places? Seriously? Am I just priced out of the BK. I feel like I'll never be able to "move up" like George Jefferson.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:30 PM
Cash out immediately, rent frugally and buy again when the market bottoms (few years), 3:30 PM. That's how you "move up". Buy low, sell high. Merely trading up at the top nets you nothing.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:41 PM
It'll go for asking, easy. Sure it would be a lay-up if it were a few blocks west but then it would be 200K more. If you want to buy in an this price, you have to go to the other side of Washington for sure. And 3:30, you have to figure in the rental income from the top floor -- which though you'll be hearing your neighbors' footsteps means that you can't rent it for more money than a garden apartment. I would beware any predictions of the market bottoming out for sure though. What if someone said that to you five years ago? It made just as much sense then but prices have doubled since then. Though I'll agree that's unlikely in this climate, I certainly wouldn't count on them going down in an up-and-coming neighborhood!
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:47 PM
Sorry, it means that you CAN rent it fot more than a garden apartment. Typo.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:50 PM
Does anyone know if this is a flip? Has a certain flip-ish look to it.Just asking...
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:54 PM
Changing the c of o to a three-fam would involve a lot of money and building either a fireescape or a sprinkler system. THe easier solution would be turning just the garden florr into a rental and having an upper triplex, parlor kitchen, and a deck with stairs to the garden. That wold be way easier.
And it is a south garden, and a huge one at that. I live on the same side of the street a few blocks west.
Three-stories on this side of washington are going for almost that much, so it might fly if the building is solid.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:00 PM
"What kinda salaries do you need for these places? Seriously? Am I just priced out of the BK. I feel like I'll never be able to "move up" like George Jefferson."
Most people in the real world would not consider moving from an 800K place to a 1.7 million place "moving up"
They'd consider that winning the lottery.
I think you need to be slightly more reasonable.
800K to 1.2 million. Fine...a stretch perhaps...but much more in line than trying to buy a place TWICE what your house is worth.
Come on.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:25 PM
3:30 here again.
I want to be a bit more clear. What I'm saying is if I want to expand to 3 or more BRs or a townhouse, which is my dream, I'm totally priced out, even though I've hit the real estate lottery with my current pad. Moreover, my friends and colleagues, who didn't buy when prices were low are now screwed and can't afford a decent 2br apt.
My options to stay in BK are limited: move to a crap hood where I can sort of afford a townhouse; buy a bigger condo in a less crappy area, that's still expensive with expensive monthly fees.
For someone who wants to say in brooklyn, its very difficult to grow and raise a family here, particularly considering the price of housing and state of the schools.
What do other's do?
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:37 PM
Most people in your position either compromise on space and buy in an established area or start looking in less established areas where they are willing to stick it out long term and send their kids to private schools, hence the steady march of gentrification into areas like BedStuy.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:41 PM
They stay in their 2 bedrooms, I think.
Did you read the article today about people moving from the burbs back to New York City? They seemed thrilled to go to the supposed bucolic suburbs only to find their car centered lives empty and monotonous.
Then they moved back to the city (both examples into 2 bedroom places, I believe) and said they were so much happier. I realize these are isolated examples but my point is...that while you might think it's rough going and that space is limited...try thinking about what's REALLY important to you in life.
Is is more bedrooms or is it the chance to live in a vibrant, dynamic, urban area where you really get to live life "awake" as I believe the article commented. I happen to agree which is why I re-used that word.
I know it's probably not an easy call, but something to ponder certainly...
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:44 PM
4:41: Private school is $25k/year, or an additional $2k/month per kid.
Who's got that kinda money to toss around, while paying another 4-5K for a mortgage?
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:44 PM
obviously some people do it...
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:54 PM
Here is a link to the story 4:44 cited:
http://www.amny.com/business/am-lure1004,0,2610823.story
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:10 PM
I fully sympathize with 3:30's point. Even if you are willing to compromise on space as well as neighborhood, and have a good chunk in equity, the reality is that you are not necessarily going to be able to afford something. Then factor in private school for two kids. Plus I think it's a bit of an overreach to claim that everyone in NYC lives life "awake" and everyone in the subrubs is leading an empty existence.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:11 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone thinks they deserve or should be able to buy a multi-million dollar home and send their kids to 25k a year schools.
Throughout the ages of civilization this has been a gift for a fraction of the human population but suddenly now...especially in New York people think it a god given right.
You want to send your kids to a 25K a year school. Then get a second job. You want to buy a million dollar home? Go to Business School and get a better paying job? You want both...then stop eating out every night, do your own laundry and start SAVING like most normal people.
It's disgusting that you think you are somehow entitled to all of the world's riches and that they should be handed to you on a silver platter.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:12 PM
Looks like a lovely house but probably priced $200,000 over the market, given both the location and the top floor rental. As has been pointed out, this is not prime Prospect Heights. In fact, it's not Prospect Heights at all. Even with an internal staircase in the triplex, the owners will hear more noise from a rental overhead than one below. Also, while decoratively it's clean and fresh, all of the woodwork on the parlor floor appears to be painted.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:12 PM
5:12: I don't feel like I have a god-given right to any of this (and don't think anyone on here said they did either). People here tend to toss these huge numbers around like they're no big deal, and I think it's perfectly reasonable if the discussion turns to HOW people actually make it work.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:22 PM
I lived next door to this place for 5 years, ending in June 2005. While the block and the immediately surrounding nabe has seen some improvements as far as amenities (Gen, the Japanese place is good, a good coffee place on sterling), the problem with this price to me is that
A) there just are not enough amenities within 2,3,4 blocks to make it convenient
B) its still not the most pleasant place to live. there were guys who would blast music from their parked, open-doored SUV at 4:30 in the morning pretty regularly. there are city-owned building on the block, one just a few doors down, and lots of people hanging out late, drinking, pissing, generally not making your 1.7+ mill feel like you're in brownstone brooklyn. there were 3 shootings in my 5 years on the block - two on the block (one in front of the afore-mentioned city owned building), and another on grand between prospect and st marks.
C) at this price in this market, you're not selling anytime soon, and if you have small kids, you're paying for private school cause the local schools SUCK.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:32 PM
For most people....moving up meant buying a property maybe a couple thousand more than their current home and their dream home was bought well into middle age. My parents moved 4 times that I can recall before they finally settled in on their "dream" home.
They didn't try to buy a place double their last one. Nor did they think this all needed to take place before the age of 35.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:33 PM
5:32...I agree.
And at this point, wouldn't most people like to take their 1.7 million for perhaps a half a brownstone, find something spectacular in Park Slope and at least not have to pay for private school for a few years?
Makes more sense to me, but I'm also not one who thinks the bigger the home, the better the life.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:36 PM
5:12...i dont think its about entitlement.
the original poster was wondering why a six figure salary plus a 700K down payment can't afford a house in Crown Heights...
what does one have to own + earn to live the american dream (in brooklyn) ?
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:36 PM
another person's viewpoint...
http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/2007/10/recipe-higher-prices.html
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:57 PM
the simple answer as to how people pay for this: they make more money than your "low six-figure" salary.
Said it before and I'll say it again: a few years ago, the AVERAGE partner in a Manhattan law firm made 4-500k a year. There are thousands of them, if not tens of thousands. Then add in all the tens of thousands of financial types making that much. If you make $350k a year, it's hardly a stretch to spend $50k on schooling and $75k on houssing.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:06 PM
Another way to think about it: Curbed links to a Post story saying that Jennifer Aniston bought in a Financial District building with condos up to $4 mil. Let's assume she paid $4 mil for a 2br with great views, expensive "finishings," etc. Now, this house costs $1.7. Is this house, even if bigger and with a rental unit (and intended as a primary residence, rather than a pied-a-terre), worth about 1/2 of what a movie star is paying to live to live the movie star lifestyle in downtown Manhattan? For an iffy block with bad schools and a tenant upstairs? Or is it all baseless, unsustainable speculation? When you have to ask these sorts of questions about middle to lower class housing, something's amiss.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:07 PM
Executive Assistants make 90K a year here.
It's not that outrageous.
Isn't that why so many of us live in New York? More opportunities for better paying jobs??
My friend is a 22 years old waitress and she banks 65K a year.
Get with the program.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:09 PM
Um, nice comparison, 6:07, but I believe Jennifer Anniston owns approximately 4 homes. Each of which are in the multi-millions.
Might want to think things through before you comment next time.
She will probably stay at 20 Pine 10 days a year.
Not raise a family there and make it her home.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:12 PM
I know plenty of law firm partners. I love the image of one of them dropping at a UES cocktail party that he had just bought in Crown Heights. For $1.7 million. And that he had left his wife and children alone there to fend for themselves after dark. Immediate reaction: dead silence and confusion, mostly over where, exactly, one finds "Crown Heights." Law firm partners pay extra for premium brands, not "authenticity." Crown Heights ain't no premium brand.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:13 PM
I'm 6:07. I know all of that very well. The comment is still apt, IMHO.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 6:15 PM
You're living in an outdated episode of Sex and the City, 6:13.
Seriously...I started laughing out loud when I read your post.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:22 PM
btw...just watched entertainment tonight and it was only a rumor about the jen anniston thing.
she did not buy at 20 pine...nor any other apt. in new york.
so the comment is not apt afterall, 6:15.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:34 PM
7:22, find me a junior Skadden partner in Crown Heights (to say nothing of more upright firms) and we'll all go grab a beer together. We might have to stop referring to each other by numbers, tho. And you can switch the "I live in Crown Heights" scene to a club in Tribeca if you prefer to envision a younger professional demographic--same astonishment that one would work 15 hours a day to live in Crown Heights.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:34 PM
A leisurely ten minute walk away in park slope this house would cost $800k more, at least. 800k would put a lot of kids through school. You can complain all you want about prices, but this isn't that far off of what people are paying. You'd pay almost that price for a three-story on the other side of Underhill, And rent on the floor-through will cover 200K of the mortgage. It's insanely expensive, but unfortunately not unrealistic. But let the market judge.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:43 PM
7:34, some of us consider the absence of junior law partners to be a selling point on the neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:46 PM
Wow--judging by these posts, you'd think everyone in NYC was raking it in big time, which is so not the case. Get real people. And 65K for a waitress job? Doubt it, but if so, it's unusual.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:48 PM
Law firm partners are about as up-to-date as Sarah Jessica Parker circa 1997. That's the point, I think.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:48 PM
no, the point was that people talking about brooklyn like it's beirut is out of date.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 8:13 PM
That is an ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL HOUSE! I Love Brooklyn!
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:07 PM
How-do-I-buy-a-house-guy:
For starters, you don't need to have a four-story brownstone with a triplex for yourself. Think three stories, including a rental, and with your down payment you could afford a place in the PS 39, 10, or 154 school districts. (Maybe other good districts as well -- these are the ones I'm familiar with.) That's what we essentially did--a few years ago so the numbers were smaller on both ends of the equation, but we have a house in Park Slope between 4th and 5th Avenue, with 3 BRs (albeit two of them small) plus a study. Carrying costs after rent income and tax savings are less than what it would cost us to rent a small apartment. And our income is also low six figures.
If you can't make it work with the equity and income you have, I think you're being too grand in your expectations.
Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:23 PM
not unusual for the waitress to make 65K. I have met waitstaff that have made 6 figures and as an underwriter I have to see tax returns.
Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 10:56 AM
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