House of the Day: 56 Hawthorne Street

thanks for getting yet another thread off to a good start, the what.

you are so pathetic it's not even funny.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:12 PM

As usual The What is one-note. On the other hand, it is mildly relevant when dicussing a fringe area like PLG. When the inevitable does occur, even if it is only very mild in NYC, it will hit areas like PLG hardest. So I would totally disagree with Bstoner's description of the price as quite fair.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:19 PM

Thanks The What (seriously).

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:20 PM

Worthy to note that, unlike other fringe areas like Clinton Hill, BedStuy etc., PLG home prices have not doubled in the last 2-3 years.

In that sense, they have much less air in their bubble to lose *if* the big burp comes, as they have had nowhere near the precipitous price run-up that other fringe neighborhoods have experienced.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:34 PM

I know people who just--and I do mean just--bought a beautifully renovated brownstone on Lincoln in Lefferts Manor for 1 million. This one on Hawthorne has to be worth at least 100K less than that. In fact I'd say this should be worth 200K less--this one is not nearly as nice and it is not in the manor.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:38 PM

Hey, I'm The Who, as in Who gives a damn about the The What.

Really, nobody wants to be inundated with your ramblings, at least not on these forums.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:44 PM

Simply gorgeous listing. Can't wait to own a brownstone. Actually, I can and will.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:47 PM

I pass this home on the way to my hairdresser.Its a few more blocks than only 2 to the park but not much further.That being said, looks nice and I think although the kitchen wasnt "updated" it goes with the flow of the house.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:52 PM

I do, 2:44. Keep it crackin', The What.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 2:53 PM

"The What" is just jealous because he or she does not own... and is praying prices will plummet so it can join the rest of us...

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:00 PM

We saw this place way back in April, for the same price. I wonder what happened. It's a beautiful place. Every old detail is intact, down to every doorknob, light fixture and plaster moldings. The top floor is in mediocre shape however.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:21 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with 3:12. The What, it is time for grammar lesson #2. Your statement below is, to put it politely, substandard. Let us revise it, shall we?

I own a house number one.
*Revised version: 1. I own a house.

When the shut of the credit pump, Housing will crash. Number Two
*Revised version: 2. When they [not *the*] shut off [not *of*] the credit pump, housing [no uppercase "h" needed here] will crash.

I have money, I don't need to be jealous of anyone. Number Three.
*Revised version: 3. Since [adding this word helps to connect the two thoughts presented in your sentence] I have money, I needn't be jealous of anyone. [Keeping statements in positive form promotes clarity]

By placing the numerals first, your central point is stated with finality and therefore more likely to be retained by the reader.

Keep working on it, friend. I'm sure that you'll improve with time and practice.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:30 PM

You knew The What was going to get into this with his/her never-ending "the housing market is headed for a big crash" message. It's like, OK we get it.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:35 PM

Hasn't this house been on the market for 4 or 5 months? Properties are just flying off the shelves, I see.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:39 PM

Yeah, The Who Here again.

That was exaclty my point before.
All I'm saying is that these forums should be about the house being discussed. We don't need a synposis of the housing situation, specially as seen through one pessimist's eyes, i.e."The What"

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:40 PM

Why doesn't The What start his or her own blog, instead of crashing this one?

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:44 PM

The What comments on every post now. He has worked himself into a crazed froth and it is clear that the more responses he gets the more he posts and, like having an argument with a religious fanatic on a sidewalk, it demeans the responders more than the lunatic babbler. So I propose that - as hard as it is not to hurl insults at this person - everyone refrain from responding to his posts. Hopefully then he will go away.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 4:33 PM

I saw this at least 5 months ago. It is nice and certainly has potential, but the block is not that nice and it certainly isn't like Midwood or Maple or even Lincoln. For 1 million in PLG I expect mint condition fully renovated. I wouldn't buy this for more than 800K, so that I could spend the needed 200K on it and stay under a million. I've seen much nicer houses in Lefferts Manor for about the same price.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 4:51 PM

Fuck The What.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 5:35 PM

Unfortunately, I don't see how you can talk about a home without getting into whether it's worth the price. And you can't evaluate that price without understanding how the credit markets are affecting who, exactly, is competing to buy the house. This is not a money-is-no-object offering--it's just a middle-class house. So there's a significant chance that buyers are going to be affected by tanking loans, both in terms of neighborhood stability and getting financing themselves. Whether the seller is taking all this into account (I don't think he/she is) is a relevant consideration--at least as relevant as gazing at six photos. The OP's comment is too general to be helpful, but that general level is affecting issues like whether all those original details add up to the asking price in the current market.

And without considering price, it's just house porn, which is boring.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:03 PM

I'm not all that convinced that issues in the subprime credit markets are going to have a big effect on the prices of $1MM homes in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I just bought a brownstone a few blocks from this one (in contract a week ago, mortgage approved this week). I didn't have any trouble finding a loan at a good rate (and we have to keep "good rate" in historical perspective), and I don't have perfect credit (FICO below 720). I was definitely expecting it to be a lot more expensive and burdensome than it turned out to be. I think the alarmism sells more newspapers than the reality, though.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:27 PM

Agreed 6:27 - Just got an awesome rate on a jumbo last week. Fico is over 720, but the rate was not much more than it was 3 months ago when I started loan shopping.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 7:03 PM

Gorgeous house. Mediocre block. Fairly priced.

It's very tough to understand Brownstoner's logic when discussing PLG pricing. He's criticized many more expensive (and clearly superior) homes in PLG as overpriced. Perplexing.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 8:16 PM

I agree with 8:16--how can Brownstoner call this house "quite fairly priced" when it has been on the market at the same price since April? If the price was "fair" for the market, it would have sold 6 months ago. The definition of overpriced is 'does not sell.'

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 11:23 PM

This house was put on the market about 6 months ago but must've been taken off shortly thereafter. It hadn't been listed via any of the usual sources until last week.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:34 AM

TheWhatTheFucktard. Screw off, hoser.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 7:01 AM

Also, keep in mind that the house may have been under offer (or in contract) for much of the time it's been on the market, but for whatever reason the sale did not go through. There is a house not far from this one that has been on the market since June - it recently went to contract, but it had two previous above-ask offers fall through at the last minute. Granted, that's a nicer house on a nicer block (in LM proper), but time on the market doesn't tell enough of the story to draw any conclusions about market price.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:28 AM

Not true. This listing has been with A&H for quite awhile. You must be confusing it with another property.

As for the other house, I assume you mean the one on Lincoln that just went for under asking. I know one of the people who had an accepted offer and they pulled out because they changed their mind about the area. Time on market does tell you about the general demand for a house (at the price) and a neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:47 AM

Being "under offer" doesn't last for more than a week or 2 at most--the house either goes to contract of the offer collapses. So two or more failed offers doesn't explain why a house sits for months. If you are talking about the Lincoln Road house that just went to contract, that was never listed as "in contract" before now--and BHS is always quick to slap those red words on!

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:00 AM

I had noticed that the BHS listing on Lincoln said in contract. I had an accepted offer at under ask in June and bailed out after the inspection turned up more work than I wanted to deal with. Anyone know what it sold for in the end?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:59 AM

having seen the BHS Lincoln house people are talking about and this one, I'd say they are fairly comparable. 3-story limestones. Neither is in LM proper, tho Lincoln is in the historic district. Lincoln is a much better block, but the Hawthorne house is in much better condition, and they both have a fairly equal amount of preserved detail. Both had small backyards overlooked by apt buildings. Hawthorne was semi-attached so had windows in the middle rooms (huge plus), and was quite a bit deeper (maybe 5 ft). Hawthorne also had a curb cut and parking in the front yard, which depending on your world view is a plus or a minus. Lincoln was asking 100K more and needed 100K in work (windows, roof, boiler, etc.). Don't know if they got it.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:30 AM

I live in Lefferts and I agree that this is a gorgeous house.
I wish the owners good luck and I hope they get their price.
I do think it's a bit overpriced because this is really not one of the better blocks in the nabe.
It's a mish-mash of apartments, town houses and frame houses, some of which are really looking the worse for wear.
People are more willing to plunk down $1M for a slightly less nice house on a wonderful street, which many of our blocks are.
Btw, does anyone know why A&H don;t list this on their website?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 12:06 PM

9:47 am said about the Lincoln house:
"I know one of the people who had an accepted offer and they pulled out because they changed their mind about the area."

And 10:59am said:
"I had noticed that the BHS listing on Lincoln said in contract. I had an accepted offer at under ask in June and bailed out after the inspection turned up more work than I wanted to deal with."

So 9:47 was outright lying. Cold busted. Why would you make up this story?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:00 PM

I'm 10:59, and when I had an offer accepted at Lincoln, there was a languishing unsigned contract on the place (which, of course, the broker used to try and pressure us into signing). So maybe 9:47 was talking about those people. Anyway, we didn't feel the house was worth what they wanted for it, and we walked.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:15 PM

9:47 is also lying about it going for under ask. It went for the asking price. I think s/he's just another one of those people with an agenda about the neighborhood. For some reason there seem to be a few people on this site with an axe to grind about PLG, and apparently they see no reason to be bound by the truth.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:21 PM

10:59 here again. I certainly didn't bail on Lincoln because of the area. I ended up buying elsewhere in PLG. It's a good neighborhood with far more upside in the long run than many other neighborhoods I was looking in. Great transportation+Park+Historic district, all *permanent* features of the neighborhood, will make it a good bet in the long run. Schools, crime, services, are all things that have been improving for years and will continue to improve. People said these exact things about every single brooklyn neighborhood, and most manhattan ones, all the way back to the Upper West Side.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:33 PM

So true, 2:21, that's what's hilarious. There certainly ARE things to criticize about PLG! Ha. But these special-agenda PLG critics completely make stuff up. I'll always be so curious who they are. My theory is they are people (or realtors) in certain historic neighborhoods that are similar in the housing stock, but with transportation options that aren't as good as PLG's subway options. And they don't have the close proximity to the park or Botanic Gardens and zoo. So they fear if PLG improves and gentrifies, it hurts their neighborhoods. But it's so silly, because ALL improvements in Brooklyn help ALL of Brooklyn. Plus anybody who truly appreciates historic houses should be thrilled when people are buying in any of the historic Brooklyn neighborhoods and restoring the homes there. To me, anybody who makes fun of people like that, are total phonies who only recently starting appreciating old houses. They're just not the real thing. I love all the old houses of Brooklyn. It's awesome when anybody moves in there and restores and cares for the houses. Whether they are "prime" or "fringe" neighborhoods, they all rock. It's sad that so many people here are too snarkey and competitive to feel the same way, and behave like a true community. Depressing. Makes me feel less enthused about Brooklyn overall as a whole.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:38 PM

I am 9:47 and I was talking about the 2 story on Lincoln, not the three story that 10:59 was talking about!

You people are so freaking paranoid!!!! Get a grip.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:54 PM

9:47 here again. I just cannot get over the fact that you all jumped to the conclsuion that someone was lying rather than asking for clarification! Fact of the matter is that I do know someone who had an accepted offer on the 2 story on Lincoln that just went into contract and they did pull out because they changed their mind. As for it going under asking, that is what I have heard from more than one source--if it isn't true, it is misinformation, not some sick plot.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:02 PM

One good way to avoid being accused of lying is to qualify what you say. If you have first-hand knowledge, for example, that a house sold below ask (you're either the buyer, the seller, family/extremely close friend of same, or one of the brokers), then it's fine to say "It went for under ask." If you heard it from someone other than the above who claims to know, then it's probably better to say "I heard it went for under ask" - because you actually have no idea one way or the other, you're just repeating gossip.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:48 PM

It wasn't just gossip. It was from friends of the buyers.

And that hardly is the apology I expected for being acussed of lying just because I said people decided not to live in the area--which is true! You all need to take look in the mirror.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:09 PM

Constantly using phrases like "You people" and "You all" is incredibly condescending and hostile in tone. It's not the way to get an apology.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:50 PM

Guess what, 9:09 - I'm going to accuse you of lying yet again. You're no friend of the buyers - you're not even the friend of a friend of the buyers.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 9:03 AM

Damn straight I'm hostile. You people keep accusing me of lying based on absolutely nothing other than your raging paranoia and insecurity about your neighborhood. You all assume that if someone says something mildly negative they must be lying and trying to somehow devalue your property. You people are seriously pathetic and sick. I emailed my friend about this and he emailed the buyers and they are seriously concerned about their future neighbors. Let's just hope that the entire area isn't populated with paranoid jerks.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 12:00 PM

Really, 9:47/9:09/12:00? I'm the buyer, and I didn't get any such email. Maybe it's stuck in my spam filter? Nope. Maybe it went to that email address I don't use any more? Nope, not there either.

Face it, 9:47/9:09/12:00. You are completely FOS, and when called on it, you just make up another lie to pile on top. Now go away and stop wasting bits.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 12:51 PM

PLG is a tight community and I can guarantee whomever buys a house here gets to know their neighbors from day one. We ourselves had a dozen people walk up and introduce themselves to us on moving day. If you make stuff up about a recent seller or buyer or the details of the sale itself, of a house here, 9:47/9:09/12:00, you'll get busted in that lie quick.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 1:13 PM

I just can't believe one of you would actually pretend to be the buyer! Just to avoid admitting that you lied and that what I said was true?? What's the big deal? Very scary.

Posted by: guest at October 6, 2007 12:05 AM

9:47/9:09/12:00/12:05 - if you know the buyers, then when's the closing date? Then we can compare what you say to when it actually closes (which is, as you know, a matter of public record, along with the name(s) of the buyer(s) and the closing price), and we'll know for sure. Or maybe you could tell us where the buyer works? Then when s/he moves into the nabe, we can confirm it that way, because of course we will all meet this mystery buyer and immediately ask them if your story is true. Or maybe you could give us a physical description of the buyer(s)? Or, heck, if you're really as much of an insider as you say you are - why don't you just give us his/her name?

Posted by: guest at October 6, 2007 9:02 AM

As the buyer, I'm a little concerned that this person actually *does* know friends of mine - although the statements about the emails were completely false - and that I have so-called "friends" who are willing to gossip about my business (and inaccurately no less) to someone who then feels free to repeat the gossip on a public message board. So, 9:47/9:09/12:00/12:05, you can tell those so-called "friends of the buyers" from me - they're not friends any more.

Posted by: guest at October 6, 2007 12:13 PM

You realize you idiots are talking about two different houses, don't you?

Posted by: guest at October 8, 2007 7:11 PM

As a relatively new Hawthorne St. resident, I'd just like some of you snobs to know that the diversity of this block, both in terms of the backgrounds of the residents and the variety of housing, was one of the major attractions for me and my family. My neighbors, who may not always look like me, or have the same financial status, are warm, welcoming, and respectful. If you are unable to appreciate that, it's certainly your loss.

Posted by: guest at October 31, 2007 1:48 PM

I just became aware of this blog, so I've obviously missed most of the action. But I was one of several losing bidders for 56 Hawthorne St last May. The seller accepted an offer well over asking price. (We offered asking). But the buyer later backed out, and we had already signed for another house in the area. I don't know what happened with the other offers, but they may have been too far below asking. Anyway, that accounts for the re-listing this September. It's a great house and we loved it. But happily we're still in the neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at October 31, 2007 2:18 PM