CB1 to Burg Bar: We Hate You, Don't Leave Us

Residents complain about bars in Williamsburg? They're almost ready for a Food Co-op!

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 10:12 AM

I was just wondering. The article says its a hip-hop bar. Can anyone who lives nearby tell me if the regular bar goers were young black and hispanic people. And whether or not their presense in and around the bar made people feel unsafe? Would they feel the same if it were a CBGB crowd?

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 10:38 AM

I am not one of the neighbors, but do have first-hand knowledge of the history of TC. These guys have lied and misled the neighbors, the Community Board and the 94th precinct for years. They (and "they" is usually Pappalardo) have acted in bad faith from day one, and made clear from early on that they didn't give a shit about anyone but themselves. (Pappalardo once said he opened the club to "bring some culture to Williamsburg" - thanks, we were doing fine without you.) There is a reason why the precinct served them with multiple violations over a very long period, including serving minors. There is a reason they have been closed down by the City multiple times (I think the only bar in the neighborhood to suffer this fate). This is not the case of some poor beleaguered small businessmen beset by unreasonable neighbors - the owners of TC have brought all this on themselves. (Its also not, as the article suggests, old Williamsburg vs. new - large numbers of the opponents here are younger non-native residents.)

What the Community Board actually said at its last meeting was pretty clear: a) it IS in the neighborhood's interest to get rid of TC, and b) the neighbors should work with a new owner to make sure that they will be good neighbors. The Board voted to have the Public Safety Committee negotiate terms of operation with the new owner (hours, type of bar, indoor/outdoor, etc.) - WITH OR WITHOUT the neighbors. Basically, they want the new owner's intentions to be in writing and binding, because, uh, they don't trust the TC crew or anyone associated with them.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 10:44 AM

I walk past this place all the time and it always seems empty.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 11:09 AM

Seems like the problem started from the moment Pappalardo mentioned bringing some culture to the hood with his hip hop bar. I too wonder if this would be an issue if it were similar to CBGB.Anyone ever hang out in this area on a Friday or Saturday night? I have and this isnt the only establishment that is very noisy. Most bars are and the music is loud.What makes this any different? Oh, the hip hop music I guess.So sad that some things never change...bias always rears its ugly head.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 11:30 AM

I guess 10:44 gave you your answer 10:38. But like most closet racist you have to "READ BETWEEN THE LEGALESE OF THEIR SLEEZE" The North is now the old South.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 11:36 AM

10:44 here - Actually, the first mention of this as a "hip-hop bar" is the Brownstoner post - the Courier article doesn't mention it at all, and it has never been the text or subtext behind neighborhood opposition. The type of music and the type of clientele was never singled out at any meeting I saw. So you need to really read between the lines to find racism here.

The potential owner who was scared away was a respected local businessman who wanted to open a cafe, about as low-impact as you can get, but the neighbors were opposed to that too (their mistake, in my opinion). Like I said, I have watched this unfold over the past three or four years (not as a participant), and this really is about the actions of TC's owners, plain and simple. They have acted like jerks from day one.

And the neighbors have also complained vociferously about the other local establishments - Cafe Fix, for one (in fact, that "cafe" and its live music probably worked against the first sale of TC).

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 12:02 PM

If a person did not know anything about this issue--including not reading the intro, the newspaper article, or any of the other comments--and read just 10:44's post, the reader would not know race had anything to do with the issue. That's some pretty creative reading, 11:36.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 12:54 PM

NO SLACK FOR THE BLACK.

Not a damn thing changed...

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 3:20 PM

I was at the meeting mentioned in the original post. I don't remember anyone wearing anti-Triple Crown t-shirts. I checked with two friends who were there, and neither of them remember it either.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 3:36 PM

This is 11:36-I beg to differ with you 10:44. The courier article does in-fact mention it as a hip-hop bar and you don't have to read between the lines because they mention it early in the third paragragh. And I quote " A turn-table lounge that features mostly hip-hop - music opened. Almost immediately, the bar was deluged with complaints that only intensified....." Now those of us who understand the creative writing process know that the writer of this article placed a dash after hip-hop to trigger the readers brain into pausing for a moment to reflect on what hip-hop means. For most, hip-hop means young, black, thugs with their pants hanging and drinking malt liquor in a brown paper bag. That was the writers subliminal message to us that this was indeed a place for undesireables. I don't want to appear as someone who is defending the owners because obviously they had some problems.But I think you are being a bit naive when you suggest that no one mentioned race or the type of music at any meetings, therefore this was not about race. Racism is the 800lb gorilla in the room that everyone sees and ignores. And the constitutional laws set up to protect people are being used to remove people from business, employment, housing,etc. It is scary when you get elected community board members who say this is personal and come up with tactics that keep an honest american business man from recouping his investment. For What? Maybe the message was for him to stick with his own kind. God help us if whites start promoting black culture. This type of behavior will always keep decent non-blacks from speaking out against what they see and hear around the watercooler. There is a dumb slogan that we all have heard from time to time. "Once you go black, you never go back" I use to think it was referring to stupid stereotypes between blackmen and whitewomen. But now I think it is a message to other whites. " Once you go black, you never go back" because you will no longer be accepted.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 5:57 PM

The shame is that in all of this finger pointing, North Bedford is missing the opportunity to be commended as having some cultural diversity in a place that for many years has been segregated. For those who have never been to Triple Crown, you missing out on being on the front lines of social justice. Sure if mixing of the races is not your thing, certainly this is not the place for you. However, I dare to say that you don’t pull your head out of the sand; the world will pass you by. The person you prejudge simply because of the way they look is the same person that will come to your aid in a time of need. TC represented a global view Hip Hop music, not the sensationalized view we all see so frequently in the American media. Like the D Club in Lausanne, Jazz Cafe in London, Asia in Tokyo, The Unique Club, Düsseldorf, TC is a extension of the success that these clubs have established. There is a part of Hip Hop culture that is peaceful and diverse which includes Men and Women White, Black, Asian, and Indian. Perhaps this is what Mr. Pappalardo meant by “bringing culture”. Not the knucklehead antics that happens in Pop music culture. If you ever took the time to come a participate you would find yourself meeting and speaking with folks from the neighborhood, five boroughs, Jersey, Conn, L.I.; to people from all over the globe. TC had a reputation from a global perspective of one of the only the places in Brooklyn which was musically and culturally diverse; good music, cool people and no drama. It’s a shame that the neighbors, the police and the board couldn’t not see past some of TC’s shortcomings. Ultimately, TC represents more that just noise, garbage and nuisance ticketing from the city agencies. But a place to come an relax and have fun after a long days work.

Can we all just get along?

If you don’t want them there, please allow the guys to re-coup their loses and leave peacefully. Just don’t replace TC with a Starbucks. There in lies no diversity or culture. It’s the same song, all around the world.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 11:08 PM

HERE-HERE 11:36 & 11:08. And to 10:44, dialouge is healthy. Although I do not agree with your reasonning I congratulate all of you for openly discussing the issues. If this is a sign of the new willamsburg, maybe this will be a sign for a new brooklyn, a new NY, a new America, and hopefully a new World. A world with no room for what I call the modern day "Prophets of Prejudice"(Al Sharpton,Rudy Giuliani,anti-defamation league,gay mens health crisis,NAACP etc.)Let's lead with another example.

Posted by: guest at October 20, 2007 9:45 AM

Oh please, give us a break! The city will NOT issue fines based on complaints alone. The ECB has to measure the noise. So obviously there was a real problem.

I also have no pity for business owners like this because it costs so much less to simply soundproof than to constantly pay fines.

Just do it. Soundproof and work intelligently and sensitively with the residential neighbors. Even if offends your tough-guy persona, just think ahead like a true businessperson and do soundproofing. If you want to make money like a successful businessperson then yeah, you need to act like one.

This is nothing but yet another story of an amateur not doing the research and not preparing to open their business properly. It happens all the time to people of all races.

Though I do agree there is hidden snobbiness and racism in certain gentrified neighborhoods, this kind of whining and refusal to take personal responsibility for anything is really annoying. And won't win much support either, outside whatever choir you're preaching to. If it were so important culturally to have this place in this neighborhood, then the owners should have been responsible enough to ensure their business stayed open there.

Posted by: guest at October 20, 2007 11:25 AM

There are other bars in Williamsburg playing hip-hop and with a racially mixed (gasp) crowd and it doesnt seem like they have had these problems. Then there is Bembe and tons of bars like that with a largely non-white crowd, they are fine.

Posted by: guest at October 21, 2007 1:47 PM

5:57 - "...tactics that keep an honest american business man from recouping his investment."

Uh, that's sort of the point. The TC brain trust has not acted honestly with anyone. The CB basically refuses to trust them and wants some guarantees in writing. 11:25 has a good point - the owners refuse to take responsibility for a situation they created.

Posted by: guest at October 22, 2007 11:04 AM

Wow! That CB board acts more like a co-op board than a community board. They have no legal right to come between business deals. I hope TC files a suit against that board for contract interferance than you will see them refuse to take responsibility for their actions and start whining too.

Posted by: guest at October 22, 2007 3:11 PM

There are no other bars with a majority black clientle in in the burg. And Ive in the area for about 4 years and no bar in the area is what I would call racially mixed. Savallas...come on maybe 10 black folks at most....Royal Oak....Ha!......Onion Pool....yore kidding me. Billy Burg Is a Midwestern/New England College town for tattooed crowed. If you say differently your smoking paint. Bembe is on the wayyy south south side and is in a non residential area.

The CB is being spiteful and do not want another bar located at 108 Bedford period. The owners just want to sell and leave. The sale is good, they just need to transfer the liquor liscence, and you guys can have another boring dive bar. The owners character should not be in question in this issue period.

This is a pretty cut and dry issue.

Either let them sell to the new owner who respectful to the neighborhood, or the TC will have to resume buisness to recap its losses.

As far as noise is concerned. I understand. They screwed up when designing the place to begin with. So the the CB should stop being spiteful and just let them sell. Problem solved. The new owners want to open a quiet bar from what I understand.

Conclusion: The CB: powerless mostly elderly , want the owners to pay for past transgressions by blocking the sale and causing a large financial loss.

My guess is this will be over soon.

Posted by: guest at October 24, 2007 5:53 AM

Anybody here ever hear the old saying "We're all on a lake and someone's making waves"? This bar continually made waves. I lived up the street. Nice soundproofing. Then they leave the doors open. We all gotta live together. Not screw each other. You turn down the music at 2 am so the other guy won't play polka music at 7 am. It's not a white black thing. It's when you keep pissin on the rug. What's gonna happen. You get rid of the dog.

Posted by: guest at October 29, 2007 2:54 AM

Please someone (10:44, 11:25) explain how TC lied to the community. How could they ever mislead the police?? How is that quote about bringing culture to the neighborhood proof that they only care about themselves? Why are you so angry if you're not one of the neighbors??

Also, stop by Triple Crown and then look at their web page www.triplecrownpage.com. If you look at the old photos on their page and then at the bar now, you'll see that the exposed brick on the walls is now covered by sound proofing. Take a look at the ceiling and also note that it's lowered with soundproofing and the places in he ceiling where the old speakers were replaced with smaller speakers. That is if Triple Crown is even open at all. As of now my friends, the owners, barely open Triple Crown to try to make things right with the neighbors. They all work elsewhere to pay the rent at Triple Crown (sad). One of the owners just got married and he and his wife put all of their wedding money into the business to keep it open while the CB take out this personal vendetta. Also note that the inhabitants of the adjacent apartments were offered to be put up in a hotel while their units were sound proofed as well (they declined the offer). When Triple Crown was open more frequently, they were ONLY open Wednesday - Saturday again to make things right with the neighbors. They also hired a door man who would send smokers around the corner or across the street. The door man also made sure the door was closed as soon as people came in and out. Also, if you did attend that CB meeting you'd know that people were yelling about loud hip hop music, people running out of the bar with guns in hand and someone said they found hypodermic needles. Wild! One man at a later meeting exclaimed that the loud hip hop killed his wife! I just think that if the CB were really interested in a solution they would relax a little bit and talk to the owners who are really reasonable and just let them out. They only want to make everyone happy. Why would they not try to fix the problem if they were getting many visits and fines from the cops? That makes no sense. They tried their best to run their business and turn a profit while making the neighbors happy. But as you can read for yourself in that article, it's not about that. It's personal and they do not want to see my friends recoup their investment. The owners are the nicest of guys, they ran an honest business and were so friendly. I refuse to believe that anyone came to them and asked them about this problem with a resolution in mind.

You teach em Williamsburg! Don't bring those brown and black people to YOUR neighborhood!

Posted by: guest at October 30, 2007 7:48 PM

I find it interesting that the community board is fixating on one of the bar owners and it's very telling that they say it's not personal, but are punishing these young men for the mistakes of one. Be reasonable and humane and let these young men sell the business and move on. Maybe this old adage will strike a chord with those who are making this a personal vendetta "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Posted by: guest at October 30, 2007 9:26 PM

I have to say I found this pretty shocking.

As a native that found a home in the Burg for 6-7 years, I welcomed new establishments such as Triple Crown. Eventually, I befriended several of the guys there, and have to say they are amongst the nicest and most genuine guys around. All it seemed they ever wanted to do was yes, bring a little of what they felt was their 'culture' to a place that was lacking in the hip-hop department. And for a while it was a formula that was a success! They had great artists from all over the world come and decorate the interior and exteriors, and WORLD-CLASS dj's played every week. That IS culture, although it may not be Maehler's 5th.

I understand that for many residents this would have been a bother. As someone that previously lived in the city above downtown's manic hotspot HAPPY ENDINGS, I feel the pain. But all this makes me wonder--what the fuck is happening to NYC???? It used to be you wanted quiet, you moved to Long Island, Jersey City, etc.

I live in London now, and I miss the sense of activity and free, open interaction that only NYC can provide. Or does it do that anymore? Manhattan is now teeming with bourgeois baby carriages and massive queues at the Starbucks. Brooklyn, it seemed, was the new Manhattan. Guess not! The wild manic, city I have always loved has lost its erection.

Let the poor guys out of their lease. Ship the residents to Shangri-fucking-la.

Posted by: guest at October 31, 2007 7:19 AM

I miss the old-New York where self righteous yuppies who moved to Brooklyn and complained about noise got the gasface. Is anyone here from Brooklyn? A noise complaint in BK!!? In Williamsburg? I know the Polish aren't complaining. If you want quite, move upstate. This is absolutely a race issue. If it was white-rocker kids with tight jeans hanging out drunk and smoking cigarettes then it wouldn't be that big of a deal (been down Bedford lately?). This is why there is no room left in NY for actual New Yorkers. Thanking you, you complaining dickheads for ruining my borough. I don't mean to come off venomous but this is depressing.

Posted by: guest at October 31, 2007 7:49 PM

Strange how many people are pleading for letting these poor guys out of their lease. Gee, I wonder who these posters are?

Posted by: guest at November 1, 2007 5:13 PM

Hmm, 5:13 maybe it's some of these folks on this video!

http://www.thenewpop.com/nyc-details.php?cid=175

This is Lindsey, folks sign this petition if you're so inclined. Thanks for your support of us!

Posted by: guest at November 1, 2007 10:34 PM

I am Polish and am complaining. No, not about a race thing. About noise. I used to live on the block of 11th and Bedford and it was loud AND the neighbors did complain directly before calling the cops. Guess what? Plenty of other bars in Brooklyn - I was here long before anyone else posting here - that aren't getting noise complaints.

The other night I was up at the place next to 186 Bedford and they music was loud and guess what? Doors weren't open the whole front end was wide open. Certain bar owners are bringing it down for everyone.

You want to live. What about people that want to sleep? I guess screw them is your attitude.

Posted by: guest at November 2, 2007 4:51 PM