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October 16, 2007
4th Avenue Condos: The Next Generation?
Hot on the heels of news that the under-construction L-shaped condo on 4th Avenue between 6th and 7th streets is being branded the Argyle come intriguing images from Curbed that are supposed to represent a glassy building slated for 8th Street. We’re not certain which 4th Avenue parcel this bad boy’s meant to rise on—our best guess is 438 4th Avenue, a site where the DOB approved plans for a 12-story building in 2005 that were never realized—but, wow, doesn’t it look loads more interesting than most of the avenue’s other recentish developments? And is there movement on any other 4th Avenue sites, you ask? For sure. The DOB recently green-lighted the demolition of the old warehouse on 6th Street owned by Baruch Singer and Rosma Development, and it’s started to come down (see photo on jump). The developers’ plans to put a snazzy-looking Ten Arquitectos-designed condo on the site were sadly nixed, and there's no word what'll go up instead.
Glassy New Fourth Ave. G-Slope Tower Revealed [Curbed]
Development Watch: No-Go on Norten/Singer Team-Up [Brownstoner] GMAP P*Shark DOB
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Comments
I never understood the appeal of an all-glass facade for a residential building.
Posted by: tscola at October 16, 2007 10:44 AM
This looks really good, in my opinion.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:52 AM
I like it too. I have always thought fourth avenue was the perfect place to showcase modern upscale condo buildings.
I know alot of you think these are hideous and are madly in love with old Brownstoner architecture, but I think the stuff going up on fourth beats the dilapidated buildings and run-down tire shops currently occupying the area.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:58 AM
I like it (from the outside). If I were a resident, I'd love looking out - when I wanted to. But what about..ummm, er... being a little spontaneous now and then?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:58 AM
Very nice - but ut would be very dumb to have no retail on 4th Ave less than 1block from the subway.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:03 AM
I see nothing wrong with choosing to have no retail.
It's not as if there is a shortage of spots for retail along 4th avenue.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:13 AM
I think 4th Ave is as good a place for modern as you're going to find. not much worth salvaging on that street. But the streetscape is still so ugly. I wish the developers would also contribute to creating some green areas or planting trees...something to make it more attractive. Right now, it's buy a fancy modern condo in a grungy looking area.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:13 AM
Looks tacky! Can you imagine how dirty all that glass will get with all the traffic on 4th ave?? Really looks awful!
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:14 AM
I can't understand glass apartments either. where do you hang pictures? What about walking around naked? But I guess I've never been in one so can't appreciate the light and sense of openness.... In terms of design, I like this building.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:14 AM
Glass is the new white brick.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:17 AM
11:14: Ever walked in midtown? How well can you see inside all those glass office buildings?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:19 AM
"Right now, it's buy a fancy modern condo in a grungy looking area. "
So you mean kinda like Williamsburg??
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:24 AM
As long as this is becoming a corridor of large condo developments, I think we should encourage and applaud some better design than we've seen along 4th Avenue so far. And this is definitely more attractive than any buildings that have risen in that area so far. Having said that, I think the problem with these all-glass buildings is that residents inevitably discover that they really need to put up curtains or blinds for privacy ... which then ruins the exterior aesthetic as each resident chooses different types of window treatments.
As for retail, this type of residential development will absolutely jump start a retail renaissance. I do think, however, that all of the developers along 4th Avenue should be compelled to contribute to the beautification of the avenue itself. I know there's talk of getting rid of some of the left turn lanes; perhaps the medians could be widened and planted? I never thought 4th Avenue could be pretty, but I think in 20 years it will be unrecognizable.
Posted by: Park Sloper at October 16, 2007 11:25 AM
"It's not as if there is a shortage of spots for retail along 4th avenue."
Actually, there is an amazing lack of space for retail along that strip.
Anyhoo, I walked past both of the lots between 7th/8th and 8th/9th. I don't see how that building could possibly fit in either of those spaces. Are several more buildings coming down?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:29 AM
Totally tacky, and looks just like the Argyle.
We live in one of those "dilapidated" brownstones, and sooner or later, they're going to come for our building and turn it into...that. Ugh.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:58 AM
the sooner 4th ave is redeveloped - the better off brooklyn will be - the stretch is a dump
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 11:59 AM
where are renderings for the argyle?
i don't believe they've even been released yet so i think your comment, 11:58 is null and void.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:04 PM
why is that 11:59?
Because 4th Avenue is the heart of Brooklyn?
I can't for the life of me imagine why a statement like...the better off Brooklyn will be would in any way shape or form have anything whatsoever to do with 4th avenue.
Brooklyn has done pretty ok for the last few hundred years with 4th ave as a shitshow, no?
I do agree that these improvements are welcome however.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:06 PM
12:04, right here:
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/09/development_wat_124.php
and here:
http://gowanuslounge.blogspot.com/2007/10/fourth-avenues-argyle-is-it-park-slope.html
And also at the sales office on 5th. It's seriously ugly.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:10 PM
oh yeah...pretty ugly but i think it and this one are leaps and bounds better than novo or crest.
but i realize that's not saying a whole lot.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:14 PM
12:14: Better than Novo, definitely, but seeing as how this one might wind up a block from the Argyle...ugh. They look like cheesy doctor's offices.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:19 PM
I'd love to see Fourth Avenue improved. As for widening the median in order to do planting, how likely does it seem that the city would widen the medians and make traffic worse along this major truck route?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 12:50 PM
12:06 - "Brooklyn has done pretty ok for the last few hundred years with 4th ave as a shitshow, no?"
NO - Brooklyn has had tremendous problems over the last 100yrs most recently about 30yrs ago when there was wide consensus that NYC as a whole was finished (including Manhattan) and that there was no hope for a place like Brooklyn. It is only in the last decade or so that this conventional wisdom has finally been overcome.
I have no idea what role 4th Ave played in Brooklyn's overall health - but certainly its improvement is necessary to continue the transformation of the Boro as a place for the future as well as one of the past instead of only the later.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:17 PM
Retail is important to keep the street lively with pedestrians, light and activity. The only thing that will fully transform 4th Ave from the highway it currently is - is pedestrian traffic, which requires retail.
Besides who would want to live ground floor-front on 4th Ave, economically for the health of the future owners - retail seems like a much better use of the space.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 1:19 PM
12:50: Actually, I believe there has been talk about various "traffic calming" measures along 4th Avenue precisely to change it from a truck route to a safer, more pedestrian-friendly street. Of course, I'm not sure where the trucks would go then, other than onto the already overcrowded BQE and Gowanus Expressway.
Posted by: Park Sloper at October 16, 2007 1:39 PM
Whole Foods will encourage foot traffic, even if it is along 3rd avenue. If it still pushes through though.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:10 PM
All glass is not energy-efficient. Can anyone ask the builders/developers what will be the energy need? Will they give an 'energy guarantee' to the tenants who will have to live with the result?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:13 PM
i'm not averse to some modern design in 'historic' neighborhoods (the joint going up on grand army for multi millionaires is nice), but by and large, all these 4th avenue monstrosities (the one above, especially) are (to me) hideous. the poster who made the "white brick" comparison may just be spot on. ten, twenty years from now 4th avenue could very well be a dated laughingstock.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:25 PM
I personally can't wait to start renting a room at Hotel Le Bleu (389+ per night) just for fun. Meet me at the rooftop bar, everyone!
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:31 PM
Maybe we can bring back the old NYC squeegee guys to clean these things. Heaven knows the ones along 4th avenue will need a good weekly cleaning so as not to look grotty.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 2:50 PM
It's...it's...it's alive!
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 4:18 PM
The windows are self cleaning.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 5:12 PM
Glass buildings like this can be very energy efficient. In fact virtually all new "green" buildings are made with glass curtain walls.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 5:31 PM
Fabulous!!! And no Fedders boxes in sight. More, more - please - especially in South Slope!
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 6:15 PM
this will supposedly be a LEED certified building according to a curbed item a few weeks ago so it should be very energy efficient. nice to see a 4th ave building finally considering design. anyone know who the builder and architect is?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 9:17 PM
this looks great!are they selling yet too? how do prices compare to other developements on 4th?
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:06 PM
christ that is hideous. what are those young folks who are in architect school? We need them cause this stuff is hideous!
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:26 PM
beautiful design. developer is obviously spending more on this than other buildings on 4th. hopefully we will get more buildings like this so 4th ave will finally be the residential block it should be. nice that it has outdoor space as well.
Posted by: guest at October 16, 2007 10:50 PM
Haha, must be comments from the developer "praising" this crap. Please, this looks like shit! Plain old glass covered crap! We don't need this and we don't need Novo or Crest, unfortunately developers or their moron marketing people think enough people are swayed by glass crap! I love the protrudng lego balconies, pure genius. Please there must be some visionary developer who can bring something interesting and beautiful to 4th ave, is I really that difficult or are we stuck with lazy bastards who produce and build crap like this?
Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 12:37 AM
You negative people are nuts. This is certainly not perfect but is clearly lightyears aheaf of everything around it and a step in the right direction.
Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Agreed, 8:18 - This stuff blows away the run down trash currently occupying on 4th Ave.
Close to subways, retail on its way - 4th avenue is going to rock!
Posted by: newsouthsloper at October 17, 2007 8:48 AM
I don't see how this design is going to work, as it will be surround by buildings of at least three stories on 2 or 3 sides. So will all that glass be up against the walls of the neighboring buildings?
Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 11:18 AM
11:18 I live around the corner from here. The building is being built on 3 or 4 combined lots and some of them still have buildings on them. The front of the building looks like it will be on 8th st not 4th ave which explains no retail. there seems to be a large side garden so i guess the glass will be overlooking that.
Posted by: guest at October 17, 2007 12:03 PM
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