326 State Street: Fudging the Mezzanines

Oh god, this place is a disaster. I live a few houses over, and I'm one of the tipsters who wrote to Brownstoner a couple weeks back saying I was pleased that the facade had turned out much nicer than expected. But we popped in during the open house this weekend, and now I am definitely eating my words. The interior layouts are simply nonsensical. Honestly, it feels like you're in an M.C. Escher house--and I'm not even saying that to be clever, it's literally the best analogy I can come up with.

The spaces are sliced up so strangely and uselessly that it's hard to believe a professional architect had designed it. Oh, and that mezzanine "bedroom" mentioned in the quote above is more like a torture chamber--a windowless box with "ceilings" about 5 feet high. Possibly even worse, the floors (in every unit) had spots where they buckled under your feet, like a big air buble--you could literally see them moving. I'd be afraid to put heavy furniture on them.

The only nice things were the bathrooms, with super deep soaker tubs and slick modern fixtures/finishes.

But seriously, overall, what a joke. I can't imagine who will buy these with so much inventory on the market right now...

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:17 AM

Actually, it makes sense for him to alert potential buyers to that fact. I went to an open house of his and was turned off by the four foot crawl space of a second floor. The broker should have told me it was modifiable.

That said, commenters are on mark. Scarano's and The Developers Group interior layouts seem like the product of design school dropouts.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:32 AM

Whether one agrees that the bathroom fixtures were quality or not (IMO they were fine but not high end), the flooring is significantly flawed. In some places the faux wood flooring (or maybe it is some type of pergo composite) seemed to bubble off the floor.

The kitchens were low end stainless-appearing appliances and the cabinets and counters were low-medium quality.

If you wan to live in new constrction in this neighborhood, go rent at the new building at 200 Schermerhorn instead. Not fancy eitehr, but at least not a joke in design.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:40 AM

Regarding FAR useage I think this is an unfair attack on Scarano et al.... not because it is "right" but because it is so common among other developers and brownstoners as well.

For example how many brownstone owners rent out space within a brownstone that isnt CO as 2,3 (or whatever family) - or use basement for office where it is not permitted.
Further how many condos (and a few Brownstones) openly flout the zoning laws concerning using below-grade space for bedrooms.
Virtually every new low rise condo has apartments with below-grade space marked as "recreation space" when it is priced and layed out in everyway to be used as bedrooms (and often listed that way on resale)

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:44 AM

This sounds very similar to 335 Warren Street...and I believe its another Scarno design. Prices have been all over the place on this. After the first open house in May/June, prices jumped to $120,000.00 on some of the units. I see now they have cut about $50,000.00 prices since the units are still on the market. Crazy!

http://www.twotreesre.com/search/qsearch/?form_request=33&action=results&showres=1&1171_0=&1185_0=6&631_0=&635_0=&635_1=

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:46 AM

I understand that this is a scarano project and is yet another egregious example of the ways he manipulates building codes to squeeze out extra far. However, to me this seems more like a case of a bitter real estate agent who walked in off the street looking for flaws so he could then turn around and say, "see what happens when you don't use a real estate agent." I find the real estate agents motives here to be as unsavory as the developer's squeezing out the extra FAR.

You are usually so gung-ho about FSBO listings so why so down on FSBD (for sale by developer) listings. They are trying to save a few bucks, like the homeowner. And I know that i would always choose to avoid having to work with a real estate agent.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:51 AM

A word to the potential buyer or those of you that just don't know. What i'm about to say has been said before.
YOU CAN NOT MODIFY THE APARTMENT IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU WILL INCREASE THE FLOOR AREA.

Firstly, a "bedroom" has very specific requirements which include a cetain floor area, minumim ceiling height and natural light and ventilation (a window) of a cetain size.
God forbid the buyer makes changes (removes the plywood platforms and ladders and creates usable floor area, and a fire occurs in the building. The ensuing investigation would most certainly yield what modifications were done and where. Once the insurance company finds out the apartment was illegally modified, by an increase in floor area, the building becomes illegal as well. The Floor Area Ratio (FAR) will have been exceeded and ultimately, the insurance company has a right to refuse making any payments and / or future coverage.
Please do your own homework and don't take anything the brokers / sellers say as being correct.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:54 AM

1st poster here again: I don't know enough about FAR and code violations, etc. to comment on that side of the matter. For me, the real shock and horror was the overall shoddiness of the work--both in design and construction. Maybe I'm just naive because I haven't seen other new construction in Brooklyn. Are these low standards of quality really the norm?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:55 AM

don't try to fool us, 10:55.

we all know you're a broker.

quit the charade.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:03 AM

From the outside, I kind of like this building but only if one averts one's eyes from the mechanicals perched on a platform on top of the roof. Is it normal to leave these items exposed and visible like that?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:21 AM

what would we do with our time if we didn't have to sift through all the speculation in search of fact?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:29 AM

this is excactly the same as 335 Warren Street. I was wandering by an open house and figured I would check it out. But at Warren they also actually advertise a 2nd bathroom upstairs. But the room was empty. They put all of the plumbing into the wall with the idea that after you move in not only can you rip out the mezzanine floors you could then put in your own bathroom. I was so entertained that I called my wife to check it out so we could both have a good laugh.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:30 AM

@10:55 -- "For me, the real shock and horror was the overall shoddiness of the work--both in design and construction. Maybe I'm just naive because I haven't seen other new construction in Brooklyn. Are these low standards of quality really the norm?"

No way. There are lots of beautiful newly constructed apartments on the market, but there are some bad buildings too. I walked away from places that had poor tile work and finishing, I would have run screaming from the building you described. There are still some developers out there who have good architects and great building crews who are putting quality apartments on the market.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:31 AM

11:30, that's good to hear. I also happen to live across the street from the 14 Townhouses, which, while not to everyone's taste (or budget!), are well-done in both design and execution. But it would make me awfully sad to think that good quality was only available to those with a budget of 2.5 million+...

Speaking of new development in this immediate area (and man is there a lot of it!), has anyone see inside the (rental) units at State Renaissance? (The big one on the corner of Hoyt/Schermerhorn.) For what it is and the budget/limits they were working with (i.e., prefab siding, etc.), I think it turned out pretty well on the outside.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:38 AM

On Prospect Park is being built to the highest level of craftsmanship possible for what it is.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:44 AM

I went to 188 15th street open houst last weekend - the quality looked good to me and the design was nice

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:45 AM

Heritage is definitely high quality work

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:47 AM

M.C. Escher house- torture chamber!

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:51 AM

I believe the Vermeil is constructed in a high quality fashion.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:56 AM

So. how much were they going for, and how much space do you get?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 12:08 PM

www.vermeilcondominiums.com

www.onprospectpark.com

www.theheritageatparkslope.com

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 12:18 PM

Please heed the suggestions of 10:54. You can also run into problems when you try to sell if there are modifications to the space that are not pursuant to the C of O. There is a reason these developers used Scarano; so that they could squeeze every legal and (in many cases) illegal inch of sellable space from these sites. STAY AWAY.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:09 PM

I live in 200 Schermerhorn aka State Renaissance Court. I'm in the middle income apartments (which aren't cheap, but are far below market) and I'm pleased with the building so far.

The construction is sound, the fixtures are nice and heavy duty. Frigidaire appliances in middle income - market rate got stainless steel ones (they may have ben Frigidaire or may have been GE). The painting was a little shoddy, but since we were going to paint the apartment anyways we asked them no to repaint. (The building manager was "appalled" at our apartment and was going to order a crew to come in repaint. All because there were some parts on the door frames that could have used a second coat.)

All in all it's been a very positive experience so far. I wouldn't call it a luxury building, but the floorplans are good and well thought out - the only problem I have (and it's such a middling problem I'm even embarrassed to bring it up) is that the light switch for the walk-in closet in the master bedroom is outside the closet behind the door. (Oh woe is me!) It's just a rather awkward place for it. Other than that, it's a great apartment in a so-far great building.

On a side note, I'm curious what types of retail tenants the building will draw - I'm praying for it not to be a 99 cent store.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:19 PM

a libretarian to whom i mentioned scarano and the building codes was apalled that the government is regulating who can buy what. its a good question, the dob rules might have been broken, but no one has mentioned why those rules exist in the first place? if people want to buy a bedroom without windows or a small crawlspace, let them.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:21 PM

> You can also run into problems when you try to sell if there are
> modifications to the space that are not pursuant to the C of O.

Exactly. If you buy a studio with a *wink wink* mezzanine and turn it into an illegal bedroom, you can't try to sell the place later as a one-bedroom condo. You'll have to inform potential buyers that it's non-complying; maybe even return the mezzanine to its original configuration before putting it on the market. It affects long-term resale value.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:29 PM

Is there a website or something else that gives a good intro to this kind of building regulation in NYC stuff, e.g. FAR, and the below-grade bedroom whatever. I find it all confusing and fail to see the motivation behind it. I'm starting to consider buying and feel like I need to get on top of all this stuff somehow.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:31 PM

"a libretarian to whom i mentioned scarano and the building codes was apalled that the government is regulating who can buy what"

Your libertarian friend is appalled by building codes? Aren't many of these codes for safety reasons?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:43 PM

One of the few things that libertarians think the government should do is protect people- public safety. I think that many would agree that there are many nonsensical codes that seem clearly to have been developed out of greed and corruption. Libertarians believe that these drive up housing costs and ultimately hurt poor and working-class people.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:16 PM

Allow me to retort since I am the Libertarian in question. My point was this, building codes do have functionality, as in safety, breathable air and everything else Jacob Riis wrote about a hunderd years ago. My problem with governmental intrusion is that it tells people where they can live and what they can do with their own property. That's just plain un-American if you ask me. The reason so many of you on this blog are having such a hard time finding affordable housing is precisely because of big government. Look at Williamsburg now, finally the chains of regulations have been taken off of developers and presto, the private sector responds with new units being built on every single block. Now imagine a city in which the entire city was open. That's right, prices will come down as the market takes over. What is keeping the prices up so high? Limited space AND inflated prices due to affordable housing quotas. Who wants to pay top dollar when they can get someone else (that would be you the taxpayer) to pony up the inflated costs of other peoples homes. I say abolish all rent controls, rent subsidies, section 8 and public housing. Sure keep reasonable safety measures in place but allow the natural buisness cycle to take care of the rest. And if you can't afford to live on Park Avenue for $200 a month, move somewhere you can.

Sure it's a stark way of looking at things but individual property rights are the cornerstone of America (unless you are an Indian). As another example did you know that the Libertarian party has been fighting for the landowners around the newly planned arena in Downtown Brooklyn? It's all about principle. The principle is this; if it is yours and you are not harming anyone else, then do with it as you please. I think we would be better off if we all applied this philosophy to our lives.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:20 PM

who is the contractor/developer?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:35 PM

OMG - No Government Oversight of Wages!

Think of the number of jobs that could be created if each individual employee and employer had the right to negotiate ANY wage.

Economics 101: any increase in the minimum wage drives up the rate of unemployment.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:10 PM

building codes are all about safety

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 10:56 PM

I like ponies.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 12:02 AM

I will only respond to cohesive, civil posts. If you are going to just dismiss what I say or froth at the mouth I cannot help you.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 10:26 AM

To all,

Ok, now it is time to set the record straight.

First, this building was filed, reviewed and approved by the Dept of buildings under a standard filing (NOT PROFESSIONALLY CERTIFIED). This careful and complete examination CLEARLY showed the raised areas of the mezzanine level as storage (NON_HABITABLE SPACES) for the unit, NOT A BEDROOM, OFFICE, STUDY, ETC. The construction of this raised area was done in such a way that it is not possible to remove it without affecting the structural intergity of the entire level since the beams are at two different elevations. The items that exist on this MEZZANINE including a mechanical equiptment room, washer/dryer units and the storage area are there to give additional space to the lower level of the unit.Speaking to the owner today, NO ONE said anything to anyone who visited the open house this weekend about the ability to take this out since that is actually not even possible. I believe that someone has created this entire story in their own mind.

As far as the floors being spongy this condition is quite normal since a prefinished wood floating floor was installed over padding to accomodate the RADIANT FLOOR HEATING SYSTEM that was put in. This premier heating system is much healthier for the occupants of the unit and more environmentally sensitive than a convential sysem as it costs about twice as much as a traditional system would.

Every aspect the zoning and building code was followed to the letter which is how this project was allowed to be approved and permitted in the first place.

Lastly, concerning the layouts. Todays modern brownstone buildings, which is what this is one of, give a greater degree of fire safety to the unit owners since the entire building is constructed with non-combustable materials, have a steel and concrete exit stair and are fully sprinklered. Many of the old units on the market rely on escaping through a fire escape during an emergency and it is these same firescapes that contribute to more than half of the burglaries in the borough.

Today buyers have asked us for high ceilings and large windowed spaces which give the feeling of a loft environment. Since the price of a square foot of real estate has gone through the roof sizes of rooms have been brought down to what is an absolutely minimum functional area to be "AFFORDABLE " to a greater percentage of the population.
This overall change coupled with the contemporary finishes is what is being presented here.

The Department of Buildings, the developer, the architect and the builder have all done their job here and people are still free in this country to decide if what is being presented is right for them or not.

The false allegations, made up stories, spun verisions of reality, delusional rantings and general off color comments about our work will now be addressed each and every time they are raised by me. Since it is obvious that many people are worried about me, my jobs and my office I will attempt to educate them about construction and development activities in New York City.

Thank you for your attention,

Robert M. Scarano Jr, AIA, FARA, ALA

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 12:39 PM

I think you're a little too late, Scary. We all know you're a shyster.

"NO ONE said anything to anyone who visited the open house this weekend..."

Wow... I don't think we knew you were an OMNISCIENT shyster, tho...

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 12:50 PM

I just passed by the new Scarano building and they have posted the floor plans on the front window. They have also already reduced prices, after only a week - clearly people are not falling for the poor construction and design. The apartment that was $800,000 last week is now listed as $697,000.

Posted by: guest at October 7, 2007 8:03 PM

Ouch! $103K bite in one week, yikes!

So, is the plywood gone? Or is that thrown in as a bonus to the price reduction?

Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 8:32 PM