« Uncommon Grounds Asking for Uncommon Seating Tonight What's on Tap for Cortelyou Road? »
September 18, 2007
The Dirty Business of Fireplace Renovation
A reader who's in the midst of a project to convert two of the fireplaces in his Clinton Hill brownstone to wood-burning and reline three of his flues sends in a mid-project report. So far everything's going well, if a little slow: So far, the workers have been very careful to protect the existing mantels and surrounding parquet floors with rosin paper. We can imagine that having to witness holes getting punched in the walls might be a little traumatic, but since the flues aren't straight, it's the only way to go in this case. Getting down to the boiler from the ground-floor kitchen has proven to be the trickiest part of the job so far because the original hearth in the kitchen, which serves as the foundation for the three fireplaces above it, gets very narrow in places. Ultimately, the workmen were able to get the piping through it though. When the job's complete, we'll have a final report. In the meantime, check out the slideshow on the link. Update: The slideshow should be working now.
Fireplace Reno Slideshow [Flickr]
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/2263
Comments
Cool. How much does a project like that cost? I'd love to install a wood-burning fireplace.
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 11:17 AM
Yes, cost range would be very interesting to know.
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 12:11 PM
Couldn't get the slideshow to load any pix?
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 12:11 PM
anyone else having problems viewing the slideshow?
Posted by: brownstoner at September 18, 2007 12:19 PM
says it is set to private. (But maybe it's only me not being able to see it.)
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 12:31 PM
$4k per fireplace plus 1500 to reline boiler flue plus 1500 to rebuild one chimney- and worth every nickel. Also, Mr. B, I can't view pix but that may be because I' m using an iPhone
Posted by: Rehab at September 18, 2007 12:48 PM
shoot. sorry about that. try it now.
Posted by: brownstoner at September 18, 2007 12:49 PM
Posting projects like this is why I love this blog! We have a home with the possibility of having all working fire places and have often wondered about the logistics and yes $$$. Well . . . this answers that question!
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 12:57 PM
Wow!
But we can see what a [word Isiah Thomas can only say to some people] it is to re-flue a chimney.
And the cost seems to be reasonable, because the payoff [wood-burning fireplaces] is so, so good.
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:18 PM
Cool! Thanks for sharing. It looks awesome. 2 questions as I'm debating this myself.
1) why not gas fire instead of logs?
2) where can you get logs around here?
Thanks,
Alan
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 3:10 PM
We never even considered a gas fireplace-- can't stand those things. I love a real fireplace; lighting it, tending it, the sound, the smell--for me there's just no substitute. It seems particularly ersatz to me to put such a plasticky sort of thing in an old house. Of course, I understand the convenience issue for many people who would never bother with a real fireplace, but for me, that's a pleasure, not a chore. (Not unlike cooking food from scratch instead of buying TV dinners.)
As for getting good firewood delivery in Brooklyn, that's a question that I was hoping the Brownstoner readers might be able to share with me. Anybody got a good source for dry, dry, dry, quality firewood?
By the way, work continues apace, and Mr. B says he'll post some pix of the finished results when I send them within a couple days. I'll name the company that did the work IF the chimney drafts well...
Posted by: Rehab at September 18, 2007 4:18 PM
That must be painful to see those walls get broken open. I love the wall colors and hope you have extra paint to fix them back up...
Posted by: Regina at September 18, 2007 5:54 PM
Rehab,
Couple of questions:
-How many flues total and # or floors for each?
-Cost per flue/floor height?
Have you thought about a masonary stove or a tile stove with a viewing window? Best place would be downstairs if any extra weight support would be needed from the basement.
Thanks for your great posts!
-FortGreener
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 6:19 PM
Rehab,
From the look of the original metal linings in your fireplaces, I'd guess that they were built for gas (like the ones in my 1899 house). Am I correct?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 18, 2007 7:48 PM
Fortgreener, I posted the costs above. Both fireplaces are on the parlor level, the boiler is of course in the basement, and the house is four stories. I do like a wood stove, and they certainly give better heat than a fireplace. But here we wanted fireplace we.
Bob, Yes, they were gas. We were really hoping to put in firebrick and put those iron panels back in on top of it, but installers told us they wouldn't withstand the heat. (we still have those covers on other fireplaces, and we'll use them for something cool somewhere)
Thanks, both of ya. Pls wish us luck with the draft!
Posted by: Rehab at September 18, 2007 8:23 PM
Rehab, I agree with you that a wood fireplace is nicer, but I believe most fireplaces in brownstones were originally built for gas. So there is nothing "plasticky" about burning gas in them, because that was their original purpose.
Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 8:28 PM
Good point, Guest 8:28, if you could put in a gas burner that looked like the originals. But most of the gas fireplaces people buy today are those tacky drop-in inserts. I wonder if you could re-vamp one of those old-style gas burners? That could be really cool.
Posted by: Rehab at September 18, 2007 10:17 PM
This gas--woodburning debate has come up often in my own household. My wife wants a woodburner and I (pedantic purist that I am) want gas, because it was original to our 1899 house. The result is that, 33 years after buying our house, none of the six fireplaces work ;-(
When my house was built the fireplaces were an important supplement to the gravity hot air furnace, which couldn't cope with the coldest winter days. Gas fireplaces were the latest modern convenience since they were used frequently [And, I suspect, they were much cheaper for developers to build]--who wanted messy old-fashioned wood? .The WW I era colonial-revival rowhouses in my neighborhood, built with steam heat radiators, all have real woodburning fireplaces, but only one of them since it was an ornamental luxury.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 19, 2007 8:19 AM
Bob, can you explain what a gravity hot air furnace was? My house was also built in the 1890's, and has 6 gas fireplaces (currently not being used), and a steam system. I'm assuming the steam system is not original, but I've been wondering when it was installed, and how was the house heated before they had steam?
Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 9:13 AM
A gravity hot air furnace (which, I think, is the correct term) is one without a fan that depends on hot air being lighter than cold and rising through heating ducts. The one in my house was replaced (according to the previous owner) by a more efficent forced hot air furnace (which uses a blower fan) around 1965. The original must have been an enormous coal-fired contraption, with octapus arm-like ducts covering most of my cellar 9the replacement duct work is far more compact). It was probably converted to gas long before it was replaced. I'm sure a few brownstones still use these original furnaces.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 19, 2007 2:52 PM
I'm wondering whether any of you know an independent chimney inspector who could advise me on whether I really need to reline my chimney before opening and reactivating my fireplace (Victorian Flatbush)?
I can't wrap my brain around the idea of having some outfit that also does the work--and, thus, might have a vested interest in telling me that I do need to reline--perform the inspection.
I'd rather pay someone with no horse in the race to do it.
Posted by: guest at September 20, 2007 1:22 PM
That looks great!
Can you tell me the dimension of your new fireplace? How deep/wide is it? Is it really just for burning kindling or can i put a fire that is decent enough to provide a little heat?
Thanks!
Posted by: guest at September 27, 2007 11:06 AM
I wonder high many feet the flue runs? We have a problem in our fireplaces -- getting the draft going upward. Once we open the flue in cold weather, the cold air streams down it. The draft needs to be reversed before the fire really gets going, otherwise the house fills with smoke. We light newspaper, trying to heat the air and reverse the draft -- but it doesn't generate enough heat given the 4 floors to roof. At the suggestion of the fireplace people, we started using a hair blower! Awkward but effective. We also have those twirly hats on the top of the flues to minimize downdraft. Once I read about fans that fit on the top of the flue, but they cost about $1,000 plus the electrician. Once the fire dies down, the draft changes and we get the nasty smell of charred wood in our house. Anyone else have this problem and how did they deal with uit? Thanks.
Posted by: guest at September 27, 2007 1:25 PM
Rehab,
Lookin' Good! Now that you seem pleased, will you post the name/contact info of the chimney guys?
Bob,
Reading the comments above, I see you mentioned gas was preferred over wood. I think wood was something that was not burned in excess in Brownstone Brooklyn. COAL was King, the first BIG fossil fuel that "made" the 1800's happen and helped make Brownstone Brooklyn possible. We often don’t realize that the areas around East Coast cities were heavily deforested quite early on and especially by the time the late 1800’s rolled around. [Side note: Boston was having problems securing enough wood for fuel in the 1700’s]. Vast areas were being farmed and grazed. I’ve heard that in many places the NE is more forested today than it was in 1875. Coal heated the rooms in coal-burning fireplaces. Coal cooked food in the kitchen and eventually was eventually used for stand-alone furnaces that heated house and water. Our house (1856) had no basement boiler. Coal burners in each room served to heat rooms as needed and a coal stove heated water and cooked food in the kitchen.
The firebrick fireplaces we now see often had a porcelain gas-burner which, yes, as you point out were retrofitted into older homes and build into new homes as part of colonial revival style. Colonial revival started in the late 1800's when coal was still much cheaper (and convenient) for heating. Eventually, by the 19teens gas-burning heaters were being put into these firebrick-lined fireplaces. I think experts might advise against burning wood in a fireplace and chimney meant for a gas porcelain stove. Worse yet, would be burning wood in the shallow fireplaces that once had coal baskets in them.
[Coal still *is* King, BTW. We tend to forget in NYC that much of US electrical generation is coal-based.]
Posted by: guest at September 27, 2007 6:36 PM
Sorry Rehab--just saw you had the name and phone number listed--disregard the request.
Posted by: guest at September 27, 2007 6:37 PM
Just checking back in to see if people want to talk about this sort of project. Thanks, Guest 6:36 for some really interesting history. I think your point, below, is well-taken:
"I think experts might advise against burning wood in a fireplace and chimney meant for a gas porcelain stove."
.... unless you re-line your chimney with stainless steel, as we did. Clearly that makes it perfectly safe.
Now if this damned 80-degree weather would just go away!!!
Posted by: Rehab at October 6, 2007 11:51 AM
I have been thinking about doing the same thing with the gas fireplace in our brownstone. I am really torn between gas and wood. We still have the original gas heater that was installed, and it's in great shape, although it's not currently hooked up - but do I really want to be burning fossil fuels? The smell and the sound of wood is great, but then there's the air pollution aspect... plus the prospect of tearing out the mantel, tearing out the walls, and maybe freaking out my neighbors is making me nervous. But its good to see someone who took the plunge and was happy with the results.
Posted by: guest at October 8, 2007 4:01 PM
I would like to get the original gas fireplaces in my 1899 brownstone working again. Halstead W wants $10K per fireplace to rebuild the firebox and flue. Since I want to stay with gas, rather than wood, is there a less expensive way than the complete rebuild? Is it possible to just put a metal tube insert in the flue, maybe with a draft inducer? Or is it really necessary to pull the mantles off, open up the wall and rebuild everything?
Posted by: guest at November 24, 2007 9:15 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.