Red Hook IKEA: Planning at its Worst?

You also failed to mention all of the changes in traffic (Columbia St. as a one way street is a good example).

You are right, horrible planning, no benefit for Brooklyn or Red Hook.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 9:42 AM

Are you kidding me? The Hook was dead until Fairway and Ikea. This will eventually (decades out) bring transportation (think 2nd Ave. subway) and smoother roads (need that right away). Our working class and frugal individuals need decent inexpensive furniture without treking to L.I. or Jersey.

In the coming decades, I think there will still be room in the Hook for cultural and residential development on or off the waterfront.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 9:46 AM

Ikea will be worthless once the Atlantic Yards are built

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:09 AM

It's an awful building, and the traffic increase will cause a mess. All of South Brooklyn surface traffic funnels through Hicks or Clinton north to Atlantic, and there's only 3rd Ave to the south. Buy online.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:11 AM

The best kind of economic development is incremental and organic. Imposing a monolithic structure that is accessible only by car (basically) and contributes nothing to the neighborhood's vibrancy is not sustainable economic development. It may (or may not) bring a few jobs to folks in the neighborhood in the short term, but it will not make the neighborhood a better place to live. In the long term, only livable places will thrive socially and economically.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:19 AM

Dude, if you want to be an advocate that people take seriously, lose the 19th century mustache!

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:20 AM

10:11

Buy online and have huge delivery trucks idle-ing double parked on your local street for 20 minutes blocking traffic and spewing fuel while they deliver your goods?

A few of my neighbors get Fresh Direct regularly. The noisy refrigerator truck sits on the street for a long time grinding and belching polution. Buying online is not a solution for traffic - you've just brought the problem closer to you.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:24 AM

Building a giant, windowless building on waterfront property with wonderful views is not good planning. Building a mixed-use center with apartments and restaurants and a a marina and other amenities would have been about a hundred years more progressive.
The Planning Commission was completely out to lunch as regards Red Hook. It is their fault and they should be ashamed.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 10:45 AM

Red Hook is a post war dump that has been polluted and destroyed by generations of industry's that eventually folded and left. Red Hook is lucky it has good and socially conscience retailers like Ikea building and bringing jobs to the neib.

Nimby's you can cry all you want but your neighb is no different than any other part of Brooklyn that has been forgotten trashed and destroyed by the post war desertion of people to the suburbs.

If it wasn't for Ikea you'd have a dirty empty crime haven play ground for crack users and gangsters like a lot of other spots along the water.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:04 AM

I am so Pro Ikea I can't describe it.

Having lived thru an era in NYC when merchants LEFT the city, I am happy to see a viable, bustling business economy move in. The inflated housing prices you guys all have woodies over go along with business - can't have one without the other.

While it was nice to live in Brooklyn when it was quiet place with lots of artists, lots of parking spots and, and someone you knew got mugged or robbed about once a week (I'm not kidding or being cynical - that quiet empty world had it's great points, even though I had to go to Manhattan to get to a decent butcher), the current middle class influx INCLUDING all the new merchants is great.

Red Hook is the best choice for Ikea BECAUSE it's on the waterfront - they're in Elizabeth now because Elizabeth is a container port. Same thing here. More barges = less trucks.

But don't pretend to want middle class/upper class amenities without wanting the stuff you buy to go with it.

Ikea will be a great addition. Bring on the the swedish meatballs and the Flork bunkbed collection. I'm there!

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:04 AM

The city sold their sole when they allowed Ikea to build on the waterfront in Red Hook. Now the very first thing cruise ships coming into New York Harbor will see is the Statue of Liberty and the blues and yellows of Ikea. How very Swedish of the New York City Planning Commission. And that is just the tip of the iceberg of why Ikea was a bad idea.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:06 AM

All of Ikea's furniture is coming in on trucks you moron. That is another reason why placing Ikea on the waterfront is an absolute farce!

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:10 AM

Ikea is wonderful. It sells affordable furniture that people actually want to buy. The store will provide jobs. Yes, the traffic plan isn't perfect but I'd rather have an Ikea in my neighbourhood. Hey, maybe Ikea could sell bikes?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:16 AM

The BQE can't handle the traffic as it is. Imagine the mess that Ikea will bring to that stretch of the BQE and the traffic in the surrounding area once the BQE comes to a standstill. City planning of the lamest kind.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:20 AM

Won't people going to Ikea want to stop somewhere nice to eat on the way out after dealing with the mobs in the store? Maybe that someplace will be Columbia Street, which could use some kind of boost, according to The Times. People driving in and out of Red Hook, for whatever reason, might be just what the doctor ordered for a "Restaurant Row" on the brink.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:22 AM

Ikea sells aesthetically well designed furniture that is also designed to be thrown out in several years. How many times a week do you walk down the street and see some piece of Ikea furniture lying on the sidewalk waiting to be carted to a landfill? This is not something that is wonderful. It is twisted. They have good meatballs though. But not as good as the tacos at the Red Hook food vendors. And who, BTW, do you think is responsible for all the pressure on the Red Hook food vendors??

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:29 AM

I like IKEA, I don't like that its building in Brooklyn will hog the waterfront. The building does not belong right on the bay. What were they thinking?
Perhaps in fifty years, the Brooklyn waterfront will live up to its potential. Maybe if they make groups like the MAS have veto power over the bureaucrats and pols at the Planning Commission we will see more progressive examples of planning.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:30 AM

Instead of trying to kill Ikea, the Red Hook Civic should focus on mitigation (e.g. traffic calming, change in street direction, paid parking). Unfortunately, Mister Moustache, aka Mr. McGettrick, and his polemic tactics have alienated a lot people including those with sway over the project.

Ikea is coming to Red Hook and at this late date we need to be solution-oriented. Sadly, it doesn't look like any community stakeholders are up to the task.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:36 AM

Actually, I think I will let Ikea handle the traffic calming. Lord knows they have enough money to handle things that would result in bad public relations. And I will continue with my plan to kill Ikea. I have devised a Swedish meatball catapult that will turn Ikea into a pile of mush.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:47 AM

What we should focus on is figuring out who at the City Planning Commission is responsible for this calamity so that they can be fired and replaced with someone with vision.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:52 AM

I am moderately pro IKEA, but I could be convinced otherwise if people could point out another area in Manhattan, Brooklyn or Queens that it should have gone. I always thought some of the empty lots in Vinegar Hill would have been good, but I don't kow if there were any big enough lots for the footprint.

Also, 11.29 -- is there any truth to that about the food vendors in the park? If you are speculating that IKEA is behind the effort, just say so, but if you have seen press on this issue point it out too.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:52 AM

It is concerning that the access to red hook by car is so awful. Bumpy streets, few traffic lights, bad lane markings, bad road signs.

If there is going to be the amount of traffic that goes to the new jersey ikea on a daily basis to red hook ikea then there will be a constant jam from the vicinity of the battery park tunnel areas (already a crap place to drive anyway) stretching all the way to ikea, with people off down side streets because their navi said there was a short cut..

For a store that claims to be environmental thats pretty bad. They should have used some of their tax break money to pay the city to re-think the road access. Build a freaking flyover right off the BQE over the warehouses and down to the IKEA or something..

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:10 PM

I agree-

Ikea sells aesthetically well designed furniture that is also designed to be thrown out in several years. How many times a week do you walk down the street and see some piece of Ikea furniture lying on the sidewalk waiting to be carted to a landfill?

Wait, landfill? Garbage can easily have nine lives here. People in BK will take almost any free ratty old thing home with them.

I see both sides of the Ikea debate. I love Redhook- out on the pier, those shutters, the view- it's like vacation. I was really rooting for it but with the transportation issues it seems almost impossible. Long before Fairway, when I would go to the arts weekends, I would drive. I don't know. The store is ugly...

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:10 PM

IKEA belongs under the BQE or Gowanus Expressway. It does not belong on a very beautiful stretch of waterfront with open ocean views.
In the 19th century, waterfront meant commerce and business. So drydocks and piers were logically built along the waterfront and people built their houses inland. A lot of maritime business has gone the way of the horse drawn carriage so there is no reason today not to use the waterfront for recreation and mixed-use development. Even in Red Hook, the waterfront is magnificent. What is pathetic is the limited vision and optimism of the planning commission and other city officials.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:10 PM

right, if they're going to do this then they should be forced to ship in their goods instead of trucking them in. they should also offer free ferry service to their store from manhattan and other points in brooklyn to dissuade street traffic. if not then red hook is in for an ultra nightmare with traffic, and as said above, whoever rubber stamped this fiasco should pay heavily.

just check out the parking lot and loading areas at the new jersey store. it is mindboggling that this would come to brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:38 PM

I believe there is a plan for ferry service from Manhattan. That will be nice, and if they make a small park nearby for eating lunch all the better, still, it could have been much nicer.
But worrying about car traffic in Brooklyn is like worrying about sand in the desert. Cars are here, people use them and that's that. Relatively few people are going to take the bus to IKEA, the very fit will bicycle I guess. But 95% will use their private car. It ain't Manhattan or Brooklyn Heights.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:50 PM

My only issue, as stated above, is traffic. None of those streets even comes close to what is needed. Not even one traffic light from Hamilton Ave to the site and through a huge recreation area. It is going to be a nightmare and dangerous. It doesn't look like any thought went into it. I think it would have been better over near Home Depot or Costco.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 12:54 PM

Who cares? We are talking about Red Hook, not some desirable location. I am sorry that Red Hook residents are priced out of better neighborhoods, but NYCers need a location for the Ikea. You can't expect to put it in Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 1:12 PM

If there is going to be no road changes, then its going to be a disaster. I presume there will be paved streets, better lights, and such. Not that I know it as well as red hook, but doesnt some of the waterfront stretches around Sunset park seem like they could handle an Ikea?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 1:39 PM

actually it should've gone to park slope...4th ave would have been a much better location...or sunset park next to the bqe on 3rd ave.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 1:50 PM

Ikea may be a great store, and Red Hook may have been a dump, but neither of those points mean that an Ikea on the waterfront in Red Hook is a good idea.

This a massive failure in planning, only rivaled by all the other massive failures in planning in New York city.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 1:51 PM

IKEA will create traffic problems of epic proportions throughout NW Brooklyn. There's just no way the current road system in and around Red Hook can handle IKEA traffic without totally overloading local streets in the Hook and creating a gridlock nightmare on the BQE, Hamilton Ave, Prospect Expwy, 3rd Ave, Court St, Clinton St, 9th St, 4th Ave etc etc. When an IKEA was built in the Philly suburbs, the problems were so bad that a new highway interchange had to be built to accomodate the volume -- but not until local residents and businesses had already suffered about 18mos of chaos and delays.

On the other hand, IKEA will provide good jobs in a neighborhood with severe unemployment issues.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 2:05 PM

Where were all you folks during the ULURP process? Drinking lattes at Baked? Getting drunk at Bait and Tackle?

All this diadactic discourse is useless. Ikea is coming and the community is woefully ill-prepared and dare I say a little to smug to deal with it.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 2:14 PM

Perhaps, right on the waterfront is not the best location for Ikea, but Red Hook needs development - any development besides rusting, abandoned plots and NYCHA housing projects. Also, when Ikea went up in Elizabeth, NJ, so too did newly-paved access roads from NJ Turnpike and Routes 1/9.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 3:11 PM

Ikea gave some Christmas presents to the kids, promised to take job applications a few weeks earlier and won the project community over. What ULURP process. It was over before it began.

The community is not ill-prepared. Ikea is ill prepared. These will be Ikea's problems to solve as the bad press they create will effect their image and the cars stuck on the highway will have an effect on their bottom dollar.

How should we prepare for Ikea's arrival?
...bake them a pie?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 3:23 PM

Wait- I thought that AY was going to ruin everything! It's Ikea?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 3:40 PM

IKEA ROCKS!!!!
GO SWEDEN!!!!!

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 8:36 PM

it's really sad that we as a generation are not activists at all. red hook is/could be heavenly. I run there regularly and get that rare I LOVE THIS CITY charge when I do. If we had our shit together we would all be fighting to make it a heavenly destination for all of us brooklynites who need weekend treats without going to Manhattan. But we're not, we're just sitting here blogging. Not to say that I am NOT looking forward to ikea near me because I am, but think it's truly sad that big box store is going to be on our waterfront. NYC has the worst waterfront planning in the world,. It's truly a weird disastrous phemonmenon. We simply do not take advantage of our shores.

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 11:25 PM

I thought the same thing when I moved to New York because there weren't waterfront buildings and parks taking advantage of the incredible views.

And then I read that three million containers per year pass through the channels, carrying $82 billion in ocean-borne cargo. It is the largest vehicle import/export handling port in the country, and the largest for refined petroleum products and cocoa imports, according to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

I guess some would argue that we do take advantage of our shores. I think that we often look at these areas and think that we could "make it a heavenly destination for all of us brooklynites who need weekend treats without going to Manhattan." I for one am always thinking about how beautiful various streets and neighborhoods could be- if only the right person would come along.

We have a something like 650 miles of shoreline. It is not as though we do not have buildings with views, parks and beaches.

That said, Ikea is a pretty fun store with a really ugly exterior aand probably should not be using up waterfront space.
I can't build a great case. I just don't like it. It's not 'the something beautiful' that I want everything to be. Ha!

Posted by: guest at September 7, 2007 8:13 AM

95% of those containers go to New Jersey.

Posted by: guest at September 7, 2007 8:51 AM

And the rest of those containers land.. oh.. DOH! ...just down the street at the container dock. What a surprise.

Posted by: guest at September 7, 2007 9:37 AM

Atlantic Yards will be worthless one Ikea is built...

Posted by: guest at September 7, 2007 9:53 AM

Red Hook is an ugly mess of dilapidated warehouses, unsavory housing projects, a smattering of trendoid bars and shops, and a psuedo-Hootersville strip called Van Brunt Street, that leads to the New-Brooklynites mecca, Fairway.
Years ago, when they built the BQE it cut off this area from the rest of South Brooklyn (or Carroll Gardens) and never recovered. Todays attempt to colonize via suburban mega stores is a tragedy to this credible parcel of NYC landscape. Sure, bring on Ikea, and may I suggest H&M as well? I'm really hoping for a mega Six Flags gamepark, with Native American Casinos. The real estate Crash, oh excuse me, "correction" will stall this area for at least 10-15 years. But of course, when the ice caps melt, this neighborhood is going bye bye anyway. Happy hooking!

Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 1:59 AM

Ikea does NOT belong in Red Hook right on the waterfront. Red Hook is one of the most lovely brooklyn neighborhoods -- and unique. Ikea and it's traffic of both cars and people will completely kill this beautiful neighborhood that is perfectly quiet even on saturdays. it is the anti-soho. I am completely shattered that they have decided to allow this ugly behemouth to park it's blue bottom in this particular nieghborhood. why not in bushwick or bed stuy!!!??

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 8:42 PM

The area has so much potential and it will be greatly affected by IKEA moving in. Local leadership should have stopped this but it seems that this was an enthu$ia$tic welcome. Their short-sighted thinking has squashed what could have been a waterfront with the Williamsburg like potential, with NY style Restaurants, bakeries, cafes, local artistian galleries or even an arts theatre that would be unique to this area of Brooklyn that would make it a destination experience. IKEA is very ordinary. Nothing special about this cheap outfit monster big box that I can find in Utah or Minnesota. What an eye sore and really devalues Red Hook and what could have been. More to come. 640 Columbia Street next to Ikea is up for sale (175,000 sq ft). Let's hope it's not Walmart or Bed Bath and Beyond or Toys 'R US. Nothing wrong with this it's just not the place for it. We need to confront zoning officials NOW to not allow this to continue. Once the owners scoop up the property, things are already in full swing. Residents and owners should have a say on this, not developers or real estate agents.

Posted by: guest at April 20, 2008 3:28 PM