Market Slump? Not At The Mill Building

It boggles my mind that someone would pay that amount of money to own a condo. Unbelievable. That location is not pleasing on the eyes at the moment but I am sure it will be in the not too distant future.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 10:45 AM

doesn't seem expensive to me given the prices people pay in this city.

this building looks above average.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 11:03 AM

it's a big apartment very close to the city and right in the middle of lots to do, eat, shop. prices everywhere are pushing in this direction.

i too have a 2000 sq ft place in the burg, but i paid less than $500 per sq ft, so I am v. happy.

once the waterfront explodes in the next 5-10 years, williamsburg will be totally gentrified and then considered the most desirable brooklyn neighborhood simply because of location/convenience.

lived in cobble hill, prospect hts and the slope, and the commuting time to Manhattan is so much shorter from williamsburg.

also, the neighborhood is just excellent for eating and shopping. amazing. we have a toddler and have found the community to be so friendly and fun for kids too.

re condos: mine rocks. sunny, central heat and air, beautiful floors, cabinets, counter tops, baths, etc... came from owning a building in the slope. love this so much more. big rooms with high ceilings. have a garden and a patio. i used to hear my neighbors in the next house, now, nothing. totally quiet. it's awesome.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 11:18 AM

I don't completely agree, 11:18.

While you may enjoy Williamsburg, it appeals to a very small percentage of New Yorkers. I don't think it will ever truly have the neighborhood feel that Park Slope and some of the other brownstone neighborhoods have.

Williamsburg could have really been a great place, but I think they've really started ruining the character of the neighborhood.

Most of the younger people I know are looking to get out of Williamsburg. As places like Galapagos leave, it will become less and less attractive to the artists that made it what it is. I see it happening now. Most of the people I know who moved there 5 years ago are now moving to Prospect Heights, Bed Stuy, Gowanus, etc. Some even to Park Slope and Carrol Gardens because they missed the small scale feel of those neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 11:29 AM

The commute to Manhattan is only shorter if you work in the Union Square vicinity.

Travel times to Wall Street/Downtown are much shorter from southwestern Brooklyn neighborhoods like Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, etc.

Not to mention that it's only a one train commute, whereas on the L, you have to transfer to get most anywhere else in the city that's not on 14th.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 11:55 AM

I agree with 11:18 - love williamsburg even though now I live in CG. Don't know who keeps saying that williamsburg "only appeals to a small percentage of new yorkers". I think you only think that because either you live in PS and SUCH different kinds of people like Williamsburg vs. PS (although lots of former Williamsburgers live in PS now, lots of PS residents would NEVER live in Wburg, just as many Wburgers would NEVER live in PS) OR you have never lived in Wburg yourself. I personally think there is a huge swath of new yorkers who would consider living in wburg but not consider any other neighborhood in bkln.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:02 PM

The buyer wants to be able to walk into the overpriced b.s. hipster diner across the street and drop some plays on where he lives. Could be a good pick-up line.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:07 PM

Live on Northside Williamsburg in a converted loft/warehouse on Wythe as well.

Would never ever ever live in PS, although I've been there many times and have tons of friends there. It's just not my style.

The opposite I'm sure is true for people who live in PS. I'd rather have a 1500 sqft loft than a 1500 sqft walk through of a brownstone. And for 2.5 mil, I'd rather have a 3000 sqft loft with 20' ceilings (like the Esquire) than a 3500 sqft brownstone in the Slope.

I think its just different strokes for different folks. Both neighborhoods are awesome, they're just very different in terms of housing stock.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:33 PM

It's the size of the unit that sold it. It's too hard to find large condos and coops. Developers in Brooklyn are taking the square footage you'd normally want for a 2BR, crushing 3BR's into it, then calling it a "family sized" condo. Ironically they could increase the square feet by 50%, charge twice as much for it, and they'd have quicker sales and make more profit, simply because of the huge demand for big condos by families. Don't bother with the house vs. condo debate. Some people want nothing to do with the time-sucking endeavor of renovating a 100 year old house. We did it, it was the right choice for us, but I'm still in disbelief how much time and energy it has taken from our lives.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:37 PM

That's a pretty nice space -- even has a guest bathroom -- especially the roof deck. The price is what it is.

I personally like W-burg...as a place to visit. Perhaps it's because there's always a feeling that things are changing every day and the neighborhood still hasn't figured out what it wants to be. Maybe it will just segment like downtown Manhattan; you'll have a Tribeca-like loft area, a soho shopping district, a nolita hipster pen, etc.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:40 PM

Yeah sure, there are tons of people that have 2 mil to spend for a 2BR in Williamsburg! I lived in the Burg for 4 years up until 2 months ago. We got tired of the whole scene, which is pretty much what it was, a glorified neighborhood. The amenities are awful, no real grocery, no decent public schools, no real park with trees older than 5 years, complete overcrowding on the subway, everyone started to look and act the same. We wanted for a better use of words, a real neighborhood that we could grow into to start a family and have the conveniences and amenities that were there now! I’m not going to say where we bought but, we couldn’t be happier. I'm sure Williamsburg has an appeal to renters or people that see it as an exciting neighborhood now, but everyone I know is fed up with the area and plans on moving out of there to the exact neighborhoods listed above for the reasons listed above. It will certainly change in the next 10 year but it will have no character with all the crappy infill development and will be like living in Cleveland or Milwaukee. Which are nice to visit but certainly do not want to live there!

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:55 PM

I'm in agreement, 12:55.

For the lack of trees alone, I don't like spending more than a few hours at a time in Williamsburg. It's depressing. I think even Manhattan has more street trees than in Williamsburg. The lack of greenery makes it a place where I like to get in and get out.

I do think it's a neighborhood for those who are basically priced out of Manhattan but still want to be as connected to Manhattan as possible.

The other Brownstone areas of Brooklyn are for those that really and truly embrace Brooklyn for the most part.

That's why it has such a sense of community as opposed to Williamsburg, which really is just a small bedroom community of Manhattan.
It feels very transient to me.

I don't mind it, but would never live there.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:09 PM

I never understood the appeal of Williamsburg. That place is ugly!

-supergirl

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:29 PM

I live in Williamsburg. I'm young and a writer. The place is too expensive, too ugly, and all the new amenities basically appeal to the people who can afford million dollar condos. It's either ghetto crap or rich people chow.

Crime is on the rise... the kids from the south side and eastward into Bushwick are getting really aggressive. Beatings and muggings are surging. Who the hell wants to be here, especially at these prices?

Tons of people I know are leaving. It's not worth it anymore. Of course, tons of rich people are moving in, so the imbalance will probably only be greater. I hope they realize it's slowly getting less and less safe to walk around at night, even around precious West of BQE Bedford Ave. I'm talking random, unprovoked beatings unsafe, the kind you don't get in Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:35 PM

I've heard that also, 1:35.

Literally all my Williamsburg friends have moved to Bushwick, Prospect Heights, Gowanus/Park Dope or Clinton Hill.

And planting young sapling trees is not the same as living in a neighborhood with thousands of 100 year old mature trees.

It's the difference between buying a brand new home in a new subdivision in suburbia or buying something in one of the more established areas.

It's a matter of choice, but I much prefer the latter.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:41 PM

1:35 - I'm pretty sure all those people who got the unprovoked random beatings deserved them, like you.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:12 PM

A lot of these beatings go unreported to police.

My friend was jumped not long ago outside the Lorimer stop and he didn't report it.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:15 PM

Maybe you should be secure enough with your decision to live in Williamsburg not to have to stick up for it with such fervor.

No one deserves to be beaten and I don't really find your "kick me" comment amusing.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:32 PM

"The ratio of reported crime to unreported is a pretty constant thing, so I highly doubt that there is some epidemic that is going unreported."

Huh?

-sg

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:47 PM

williamsburg, unsafe? what? probably depends where you are. huge neighborhood, so people may have different experiences. a lot of the northside has no ghetto or bad areas. very safe it seems to me. i walk at all hours all the time without being nervous ever. when I lived in prospect hts. there were actual murders and gangs hanging out on street corners - on st. marks and on carlton! that was scary.

as for everyone is leaving williamsburg? again, what? just young renters who can't afford the price increase are leaving maybe, but they are being replaced by older renters then and buyers. people are coming overall.

also, as for getting to downtown, it's so fast! I live near the L. If I take that to go downtown I switch at union sq. but, most of the time, I walk to the JMZ. It's a quick trip. Also, walk home alot from my downtown office.

I have frequent meetings in midtown. takes 15 minutes ish. try that from park slope - at least 50-55 minutes.

park slope is going to be a crazy traffic filled nightmare when AY gets done. also, will be congested with the construction in the near future. But, at the end of the day, as it is what it is. kinda boring, not too cool, too many people in mom jeans, a lot of dark, shitty, not renovated brownstones with cramped small rooms. it's got the history of being a neighborhood of writers and not fashionistas and it looks like it.

Sorry, #109, you cannot make those wildly inaccurate and crazy statments! i have been in brooklyn for 11 years. I lived in PS for 6 of that and thought that there was ZERO sense of community. Moved to williamsburg and have made more new friends outside of work than i ever have since college. the community, especially of parents, is super tight and strong. go to the yahoo group brooklynbabyhui. has to be one of the biggest parents groups in NYC.

also, there are tons of trees. have one out side of my front window and 3 in my backyard. but whatever....

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:01 PM

You said it all here in this statement...

"it's got the history of being a neighborhood of writers and not fashionistas and it looks like it."

uh...since when did dressing nicely trump being a creative, intelligent human being.

oh right. when paris hilton became god.

stay in williamsburg please.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:06 PM

"just young renters who can't afford the price increase are leaving maybe, but they are being replaced by older renters then and buyers."

yup. sounds super exciting.

Williamsburg! Where young creative people leave and OLDER people move in!!!!

Said it yourself. It's over.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:08 PM

Wiliamsburg sounds like an extension of Murray Hill from your description, 3:01.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:11 PM

I remember when Galapagos opened. It was annoying and pretentious. I am not sorry to see it go. Likewise, I will not be sorry to see the crop of recent collge grads who've just been priced out move to Bushwick. Even when I was you, you annoyed me. Ciao.

Regardless of where you stand on how annoying/not annoying a neighborhood it is, Williamsburg IS convenient. The best way around the L's overcrowding is to take the J/M/Z or G, depending on where you're going. I've worked all over Manhattan and never had more than a 30-minute door-to-door commute.

The schools are fine. They're not crowded AND They're getting a lot of funding. Your kid will probably get more attention in them than they would at PS 321. In fact easy entrance to decent publics and preschools is probably one of Williamsburg's little secrets.

The neighborhood is safe. If there's a certain element preying on drunk people who stagger around looking to score at 4AM, I think that's just natural selection at work.

The biggest issue I see is the toxicity. Just how bad is it? I hear a lot of rumors, but no one really seems to know anything for sure. It'll be interesting to see if that is ever really addressed.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:13 PM

Since when are there tons of trees in Williamsburg? Commenter 3:01 PM has basically disproven anything said by that statement. It has the least green area in the entirety of New York City.

and yes, beatings on the Northside are increasing. Why do you think you see so many cops patrolling the McCarren Park area now? It's a stark difference from last year. It's all about the economy, and drastic changes are going on - maybe not for the rich people, but definitely for the lower income, and Williamsburg being a famously poor area until about 2002, is still made up mostly of people who will get hit the hardest by this coming economic dump.

and yes, the young people are basically flooding out - I'm leaving this November, and all of my friends have already left earlier this year. It's yet another lame boring neighborhood like any you'd find in Manhattan, just uglier, less convenient, and actually more expensive.

Have fun next year when you get the crap kicked out of you by a bunch of kids on their way back to the southside.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:14 PM

"gangs hanging out on street corners"

I think it's more scary that you know a gang member when you see one. How exactly did you know they were in a gang? You know about the colors, signs, handshakes, etc?

Or perhaps you were just assuming...

Yeah...I'd have to agree with the other poster. Stay in Williamsburg. Or move to Ct. You'll be a lot safer up there.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:14 PM

and yes, crime is going up. why else would the cops be -everywhere - in the neighborhood now? Everyone who lives here knows things are starting to get bad. I get pushed around now, and all my friends know at least one person who's been jumped recently.

and anyone who's grown up in or around New York City knows that the police force fails t o report most crimes reported to them, especially when the city's economy depends so much on the perception of it being crime free.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:16 PM

what the hell does milwaukee have to do with Williamsburg? Milwaukee is not full of new buildings. Had relatives there until recently and been a few times in the last couple of years. Milwaukee has 1800's era homes and buildings except for the modern office buildings. really, people say the stupidest shit here.

also the comments about the amenities in williamburg are bizarre. the amenities are terrific. Great food shopping: Tops, Sunac, Millenium. The restaurants and shops are really good.

I like living in Williamsburg, don't care where others want to live, but when people are shouting their opinions as facts, gets annoying...

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:19 PM

Anyone who says Galapagos (or any other high quality artistic venue) leaving the neighborhood is a good thing, I lose interest in everything else they have to say.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:22 PM

Well then 3:22, it's a good thing you're leaving the neighborhood too!

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:42 PM

I've never lived in Williamsburg. Nor would I.

I'm not a fashionista.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:48 PM

Oh, and therefore I am a fashionista? Because I do live in Williamsburg?

It's such a relief to know black stretch pants from Target have made a comeback. Phew. Sometimes I worry?

I'm going to run out and walk down Bedford Ave in them right this very second!

Agree, the amenities are great here. Better than Park Slope and in a more concentrated strip.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:57 PM

I was making fun of one of your fellow Burg inhabitants (3:01) who made the fashionista comment, 3:57.

Take it up with him/her. I was poking fun.

And I don't agree about the amenities. Nothing much on Bedford I care for.
Nothing I can't find a few stops away in Manhattan, anyway.

You clearly haven't been to PS lately. I'd argue that Al Di La, Blue Ribbon and Blue Ribbon Sushi, Moim and Franny's are better than any restaurant options Williamsburg has to offer.

Guess it takes more than some 2nd rate Thai to get me through most days.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:05 PM

Don't think anyone is saying that, 4:04.

I think what they are saying is that Williamsburg has become so ridiculously expensive (for what it is especially) that the people who made it what it is no longer can afford or simply don't want to live there anymore.

That's the point.

Sounds like you equate "better" with soul-less.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:09 PM

4:04,

Come on, both 'hoods are good. I prefer Williamsburg over PS and have been to both (was in PS last weekend actually.)

And seriously, are you really claiming that any restaurant in PS is better than... oh... Peter Luger? How about Aurora (which just opened a SoHo branch?) Or is there any restaurant with the vibe of a MyMoon or Sea? Or any place as well received this year in the food press as Fette Sau? I mean, come on. Seriously. The restaurant scene in Williamsburg is SCARY strong.

Not to mention the clothing/boutique store scene, and the various other amenities on Bedford and Grand and North 6th.

And I don't get the Williamsburg soul-less comments. YOU GUYS HAVE A BARNES AND NOBLE!!! How much more soul-less can you get!?

And finally, I find it funny that people are bitching about it being more dangerous and more expensive at the same time? Seriously, if you're moving out of Williamsburg because it's too dangerous+expensive+played out, where are you going? Bushwick? Yea, cause that's much safer.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:23 PM

Peter Luger was downgraded to two stars last week.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:55 PM

"Williamsburg has a few good years left in it."

I guess I have higher standards than that.

I think Park Slope has decades of good years left in it. If not more.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:58 PM

"The restaurant scene in Williamsburg is SCARY strong."

Yes, if you're comparing it to Inwood, I'd say you are correct.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:15 PM

The two stars Peter Luger held on to were mercy stars. That food is vile.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 6:01 PM

Gosh, the moped gang outside The Levee scared me so much I almost peed my pants. Crime is up? As compared to when the crack whores were blowing truck drivers outside my building? Back in the good old days when the junkies would pry the lights off my car to sell for drugs? Cops? There weren't any cops patrolling the streets then, and they wouldn't come if you called ("You'll have to come down to the station if you want to file a report." "Um, what about collecting evidence? "Ha, ha, ha.") I moved there because the buildings were low and you could see the sky, so I hate most of what's happening physically (and if one more Asian restaurant opens on Bedford I'll scream), but Williamsburg is still just fine. A very good food neighborhood, by the way: Bedford Cheese, Fette Sau, Spuyten Duyvil, Oslo. World class. We still deserve a better supermarket, but I presume that will come. Believe me, I'm not trying to convince anyone to move there. In fact, please, go away so I can get on the L train. And as for The Mill Building, at least it didn't get torn down. Too bad about all the horrible architecture going up around it.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 6:22 PM

you sound sexy, 6:22

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 7:25 PM

williamsburg is fine but the biggest problem is the toxicity of the neighborhood. The Newtown Creek oil spill to the north, the former industrial plants on Kent Avenue (some of which were radioactive). Don't think it's too healthy in the long run.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 8:06 PM

Like I said before, the toxicity's the thing. How toxic is it? That's the question of the day...

Personally, I don't see how 4ave or Gowanus can be any better -- they seem worse.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 8:34 PM

there are no toxic issues with 4th avenue.

it's all farther west....3rd ave, 2nd...

they are not even close to the problems in greenpoint.

and they are mostly in process of being cleaned up.

i don't believe there is such a plan for greenpoint at the moment. could be wrong.

Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 9:58 PM

"and they are mostly in process of being cleaned up."

Are they? I was under the impression that things are at a bit of a stand-still in Gowanus. Developers can't get plots re-zoned for residential in order to do the cleanup in order to build the condos. Even Whole Foods look dead in the (scary bright green) water for at least another year or so.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 12:14 AM

they are working on the whole foods site as we speak.

walked by it last week.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 10:51 AM

4th ave is one of the worst traffic corridors in Brooklyn. Williamsburg may have the BQE, but at least it's mostly elevated. And DUMBO has the BQE too. 4th ave is just a shadeless wasteland of parking lots, rush-hour gridlock, and trucking exhaust a stone's throw from the brownfields on 2nd and 3rd. And it's about three times as wide as any street in north Brooklyn. I think it's a joke that you could think a condo on that would be preferable.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:47 AM

YES, only YOUNG people can be creative. No one over 30 has ever created anything.

that maybe is the single dumbest thing ever said here.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:55 AM

Yes, Williamsburg is beautiful, tree-filled and toxin-free. The housing stock is sturdy and beautiful, and the subway service is the best in the city.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 1:37 PM

I bought in the Mill Building last year. Had been looking all over Manhattan, Brooklyn (was in BHeights), The Slope, CG, etc. But this checked all of my boxes: high ceilings, old renovated features like beams and old factory floors, high quality built ins and appliances (okay, i'm a sucker for stainless steel kitchen porn), high ceilings, in-building garage, a bit out of high hipster trafficdom without being too isolated as South Williamsburg can be.

I bit. I bought. And I can't wait til my closing this month.

And in the past few months, I've sublet here. I like the vibe. The people watching is amusing and pretty diverse. At least it takes a little more effort to get over here than the LES and EVillage, which have become beyond Disneyland at night.

Tell me, does Tribeca have more trees than Billyburg?

Posted by: guest at October 1, 2007 11:37 PM

Why won't people stop saying "billyburg"? Especially people who live there...

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 3:38 PM