House of the Day: 190 Lincoln Road

The link is dead, Mr. B.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 1:24 PM

Stoner:

I agree. The wife and I have been looking to move out of our tony Boerum Hill 2br co-op to accomodate a growing family, but we're coming up short all over the place. Prices still WAY to high, and the stock is really crappy.

For example, this weekend we check out this Dorchester Road frame house in Ditmas Park, what a POS. It was in terrible shape, didn't have a rear yard (just a small deck) and the bathroom had 4 types of tile, and peeling paint. Moreover the exterior looked as though it needed at lease $30k worth of work. at a mere 1700 sq feet it was priced pretty high

What gives with these prices, particularly outside prime BK addresses.

The link is here: http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1076137&ohDat=
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Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 1:32 PM

Oh I think that Ditmas Park house is cute. I don't know anything about the street it's on though, so I can't comment on that. Some streets in Ditmas are so way South it's too far away from transportation.

Anyway, no need to dismiss the basement as a living space, if you fix it up nicely. Lots of new residents in the Lefferts Manor 2-story houses have fab basements. We get decent sunlight in ours and we made it into a family room. We literally spend every night in the basement. We love it.

However if the kitchen and baths aren't done, it's not worth $995,000. Houses of this size that still require kitchen and bath renovations generally sell for $800,000 to $850,000 in Lefferts Manor. But with a newly renovated kitchen and other renovations, houses of this size do get this price now in LM. It's hard to find current comps because there aren't any fully renovated ones on the market now. The inventory is low here and few people sell. They tend to stay put.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 1:38 PM

I think the rising prices for houses in neighborhoods one wouldn't normally anticipate spending a million for, is all about people's great desire to have a house. For so long in all of NYC, people were completely content to have an apartment. A small one at that, even if they were relatively wealthy. Could be due to changing demographics, or "greening" of the world and people demanding a yard. Used to be New Yorkers craved cement and crowds and for everything to be very urban. Now there's a Brooklyn farmer dude on the cover of New York magazine. A little patch of grass speaks to something in us.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:16 PM

GTFOOH, 3:16. It was the credit bubble.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:22 PM

Bob Marvin:
I'm guessing you've seen this place. And you're saying its a full 3 floors w/a basement. Not bad...

Its still a bit over priced. 3:22 is right on, it was the credit bubble.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:26 PM

If it was only the credit bubble, why aren't the condos and coops flying off the shelf?

Because they aren't. People want houses.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:29 PM

This house is 4 floors: garden, parlor & top floor PLUS a cellar. The craigslist house is 3 floors: english basement, parlor and top floor. There is no cellar in the Craigslist.

Price seems very reasonable for the neighborhood. This is not at all one of the smaller PLG houses.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:35 PM

I've seen this house on the inside. It has three floors which are above grade, plus a cellar. The above grade floors measure close to 3000 sq. ft. And the cellar is nearly 1000 sq. ft. This is a big brownstone. It's a great block too. The price seems totally reasonable to me, even if it needs work. I think Brownstoner is confusing PLG with Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights again.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:45 PM

Sequence, my friend at 3:29, sequence. Condos suffer first. People want houses no more than they did in 2001.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 3:51 PM

I just know every single person we know wants to buy a house. Still.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 4:07 PM

Hey now, let's not insult Bed Stuy or Crown Heights even if we like our own PLG. All for one and one for all. Seriously though, let's all stop the competitiveness. It's like a gaggle of junior high school mean-girls around here too often.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 4:19 PM

1:32 poster who's looking for a bigger space...

after an exhaustive search, we found a killer 2000 sq. ft duplex with a yard and a patio in a condo in the heart of williamsburg. we have a kid as too many of our neighbors, so we understand the need for space.

our condo has everything including central air and feels like a house more than an apartment.

also, it's an area with lots to do and is very safe and very convenient. Prospect/Ditmas is so far comparitively and offers little to do in comparison. More dangerous too.

if you have to have a house, and don't want to spend that much, then you will have to sacrifice neighborhood. this is the allure of the condos - you can get space and amenities in good neighborhoods.

consider a condo that is in a brownstone or pre war maybe then if you don't like modern design.

this was just a suggestion to that poster, realize condo's not for everyone...

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 4:27 PM

The market in Lefferts Manor has slowed a lot since early Spring. It was really hot for about 2 months, but since then a lot of listings have been sitting around or selling for under asking. The market in PLG as a whole is like a sew-saw--up, down, up, down. It never really takes off. For the current amrket, this price seems high.

Given that Alan Greenspan is being quoted as saying there is a "bubble" and that there will be a 10% to 20% drop in real estate prices in all markets, I think it is a sure bet that homes in "fringe" areas like lefferts Manor will be among the first to drop. The three approaches I've heard are 1) wait for prices to drop 2) buy in areas that have already dropped and 3) only buy in blue-chip areas.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 4:28 PM

Fenimore is not prime PLG. If Fenimore is worth $800K, then the same house on this block is definitely $1M.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 4:44 PM

201 Lincoln, also a 3 story, has been for sale through BHS at 1.095 million for four months. I've seen 201, needs a lot of work. No price cuts and no takers. And 190 is on the Lefferts Manor side of the street. It'll be interesting to see if this goes at that price point. Clearly the other one is overpriced.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 5:11 PM

200K to be on Lincoln rather than Fenimore? HA! I'll give you 100K. 889K for this would reasonable at the moment, though it will probably be very high in a month.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 5:23 PM

I am pretty sure this house was on the market in spring of 2006, when I was actively looking. 190 and 192 were on the market then, as I recall. One house had the crazy price of 1.4, but went way down to around 900+, changed brokers etc. Could this be the same house?

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 8:59 PM

Kensington is very cute. Small houses with small rooms generally, though. Just an FYI, if you're looking for more space.

You another neighborhood in which people never sell? Those homeowners in the huge, high-end freestanding houses on or near Shore Road in the nicer part of Bay Ridge. They must be handing down the houses to their kids, because nobody gets those houses out of the owners' clutches.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 9:32 PM

Oops, should be "you know another neighborhood.."

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 9:32 PM

I grew up on this block, a couple houses away, and these houses have a full floor more than those on Fenimore, I believe. Three full floors, plus a true basement.

Great houses, all built circa 1910. This house was probably never renovated in the last twenty years, as it was occupied by a elderly woman who I believe died a few years ago.

Maybe 20 years ago there was an electrical fire on the top floor, so some detail up there may have been lost. Looks like it was kept up pretty nicely on the parlor floor but expect to have to redo the kitchen and bathrooms.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 7:53 AM

The house is great. The question is, "Is it nice enough to take a bullet for?" We each have to answer this question for ourselves, but I haven't seen a piece of real estate yet that's work dying for. I have a family...I can't risk moving to a place like PLG and perhaps leaving my wife and children to fend for themselves. No freaking way.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 8:41 AM

8:41, that's the stupidest thing I've read here in a long time.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 11:30 AM

Good point, 8:41AM. I've lived right near this house for 8 years and I have been shot 13 times! And my house isn't even as nice or as big. My wife has been shot 6 times, but she stays inside most of the time, and each of my kids have been nicked by a few bullets on the way to school, but thankfully no direct hits yet.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 11:31 AM

can someone illuminate the difference between the north and south sides of Lincoln? sorry for the ignorant question....

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 11:47 AM

Oh I loved 11:31 's response. It was hilarious. It was playful satire, having a bit of fun with the topic. We can certainly lighten things up a bit around here sometimes.

Thanks, that was informative about Lincoln II, I didn't know that the north side of that block was LM too.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 1:42 PM

I'd like to think that Lincoln Road is no worse than anywhere in Boerum Hill safety-wise.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 1:50 PM

"can someone illuminate the difference between the north and south sides of Lincoln? sorry for the ignorant question...."

You're more likely to get knifed or stabbed on the north side of Lincoln, whereas you're more likely to be shot on the south side. Hope this helps.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 1:54 PM

Umm... I made the post at 11:31. There was no satire. Sorry.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 1:57 PM

Oh right, like 1:54 and 1:57 aren't the same person. It talks to itself again. And this thread had turned out so nicely up until today! Oh well.

I haven't spent much time in Boerum Hill, don't know anything about it. I know some have talked about one specific bad block in BH, but I didn't think it was generally unsafe. Seems unkind to make that broad sweeping statement.

Any block in Lefferts Manor or nearby is fine. The only thing I'd say is it's such a family oriented neighborhood, that people are home and inside later at night so if you come home late, the sidewalks are empty and unpopulated. Which I always hate, whether there's something to worry about or not. So we take the car service home from Manhattan if it's later than 10pm. We did that when we lived in Park Slope too, though.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:03 PM

Actually, Bob, someone on the Risky Business thread had inquired about Lincoln. I think that's where it started.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:09 PM

2:03 = 1:57 = 1:50

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:10 PM

"We did that when we lived in Park Slope too, though."

Yikes.

I think you belong in suburbia...

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:13 PM

2:13 = 2:10

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:15 PM

Wrong, 2:10pm. What did I say that was negative in my post at 2:03? That PLG is a family oriented neighborhood? Heavens forbid!

Normally we probably would be in the suburbs, 2:13. Which illustrates exactly who is buying in PLG. As well as who all the new home buyers in Brooklyn are. People with higher expectations, making improvements and bringing the borough back from where it slipped to, in the 70's. I thought everyone thought this was a good thing for the market.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:20 PM

2:20 = 2:10. It's talking to itself again...

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:24 PM

I think having people with an urban sensibilty is good for the largest city in the u.s.

Not a bunch of suburban twits, who hole themselves up in their homes, drive their minivans to fairway, testing out the starbucks on both corners of the same street while taking car services home past dark to one of the most bucolic urban neighborhoods in the country.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:34 PM

Bob, there's no such inquiry there now, but there was earlier today. I saw it.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:42 PM

Quite literally, every single time I start to enjoy participating on Brownstoner again, it turns completely crappy with the dregs of society showing up with all their narrow, judgemental nastiness.

Enough. Over it. Buh bye. Have fun you 'tards.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:54 PM

I'm considering buying a house on what seems to be generally referred to as "Lincoln II." I've walked around the neighborhood (single female) at all hours of the day or night to size it up, and haven't felt at all unsafe at any time (although as a Manhattanite it is a lot quieter than I'm accustomed to). So I'm wondering what all these warnings of danger are based on. I checked the compstat data I could get my hands on and this area shows no indication of having a significant street crime problem. Is this a dated perception of this area? Did it previously have an actual street crime problem and it's just taking a while for people's preconceptions to be revised? Or should I be putting this down to pure prejudice of some form or another?

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 5:55 PM

Is this a dated perception of this area? Did it previously have an actual street crime problem and it's just taking a while for people's preconceptions to be revised? Or should I be putting this down to pure prejudice of some form or another?

yes.

yes.

yes.

it looks and feels more dangerous than it is.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 6:02 PM

5:55, it is a dangerous neighborhood. There are plenty of posters here who will tell you it's not. Some of them are brokers wanting to make a sale; some of them are people who own property in PLG and hope to talk up their property values. However, as a former resident (lived there until around eight months ago), I can tell you that it is a very dangerous neighborhood. My family was the victim on two occasions of exceptionally violent crimes. I will spare you the details (who am I kidding, I'll spare myself the details), but suffice it to say that I didn't take warnings about PLG seriously and my life ended up changing drastically as a result--and for the worse. I have friends there who've had similar experiences. By all means, go, look around and see for yourself, but be careful and when someone's telling you about the neighborhood, always bear in mind their position vis a vis the place.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 9:56 PM

This is funny. People talk about crime all the time on this site in all neighborhoods, but if PLG is involved all such talk is a "malicious fabrication" by someone "with a grudge against [PLG]".

Can you hear yourself? A 'grudge'? You people really need to get over yourselves. If you check the map, you'll see that PLG is a very small part of a big borough and an even bigger city--not the other way around.

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 8:24 AM

9:17 = 9:56

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 12:30 PM

12:30 = 6:02

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 12:45 PM

PLG sounds like a great place to get shot in the face like an animal

Posted by: guest at September 20, 2007 6:33 PM