Friday Links

I love that all the news sources are calling Clinton Hill an otherwise peaceful neighborhood - isn't that the 3rd shooting in a little over a year??

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 8:18 AM

What's even more startling is that people said he "emptied his gun out" and then they "parted for him"????? are you kidding me??? someone could do SOMETHING. I think it's bs this guy is still on the loose with so many people watching.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 8:29 AM

Ohhh so thats the jerk store that ran out of me.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 8:47 AM

Not true, 8:45. In neighborhoods with more gun violence, these things are far more likely to occur. How many people have been killed or caught in the crossfire in Brownsville over the past 20 years versus Brooklyn Heights over the same time period? There are significant differences between neighborhoods and it is a myth that the chances of this happening are equal across the board.

But, hey, look on the bright side. At least no one on Clifton Place will ever be accused of being a snitch.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 9:05 AM

Um, hate to tell you this, 9:33, but most of those who consented to talk to the news crews were part of the street life over here. The reporters tried hard to interview far more people, who simply turned away in fear of retaliation. Sumpter was a known dealer, and the behavior described (buying kids shoes, trips, etc.) is typical of dealers recruiting. Chances are nobody aware of the truth wanted to mess with future retaliation. Also, nobody is reporting the scene in front of #22 last night (starting around 9PM and still ongoing at 2AM), complete with a police car that did nothing to stop the noise (the cops were aware of Sumpter's activities), hundreds of candles, screaming, shouting, fighting, etc. This is what comes of gentrification: pressure on drug turf, and possibly drug wars. Watch your step on your way to Choice...

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:03 AM

9:33,

Yes, the crime rate has done down and no, I never once said that people should tackle gunmen. Still my original point stands. I said, to repeat, that these types of incidents are far more likely to occur in areas with higher crime rates and that the idea of this being equally possible across the board is a myth. Nothing in your reply disproves this.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:14 AM

Yeah, what about all the people who _don't_ get shot in Clinton Hill! Who ever writes an article about that?

Also, most people who get shot don't get killed. Medical fact!

Plus, stroller moms and bratty kids are a bigger problem anyway. Perspective, people, perspective!

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:25 AM

Check out the thread from December 8, 2006 Open House Picks, on 48 Clifton.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:25 AM

clinton hill = dangerous

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:33 AM

Hey, look at the bright side - a few years ago shootings over here weren't news. If the NY Post, NY Times, Channels 7 and 4 are now interested, the neighborhood is looking up...and they're interested because of the price of real estate here these days, and phenomena like this blog. Blog on, folks...

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:37 AM

The truth is that no one here knows the full story. Yes, the word on the street is that this guy was a dealer and that this was a drug related shooting, but even that doesn't make it true. It's a tragedy whether it was drug related or not. The police will catch the shooter, but will the real truth ever come out? Probably not.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:39 AM

There are a couple of dealers who work that block, particularly in the house near where this happened, and on the other side of Grand. This will most likely put more scrutiny on them, and end up with more arrests than just the shooter.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:41 AM

Anon 10:33, there were more shooting homicides in the West Village last year than Clinton Hill. Does that mean that a neighborhood of $6,000,000 townhouses is dangerous, or that shit happens everywhere?

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:52 AM

Anybody know of a block in the WV with mulitple owner-occupied drug houses?

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:15 AM

This is to response to the people that no one said anything to the police about what happened on Clifton Place. You are WRONG. The police know exactly who it is and they are looking for him. Stop making statements without knowing the facts.

Whether you are new to the neighborhood or have been there all your life, nobody wants to deal with a killer running around their neighborhood. Several people spoke up and gave the information they had.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:15 AM

11:15: If you're referring to the 10:03 post, that poster only said people weren't talking to reporters. Apparently the police do have leads on the suspect. Now let's hope they catch him.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:21 AM

Without knowing the parties involved, this sounds like a situation where the victim who turned his life around after some troubled younger years somehow "disrespected" the Psycho guy. Awful. The few Psycho stragglers are being pushed out. The only good that comes out of this is that it may help to push more out through more police diligence and response. The days of the last few drug dealers are definitely numbered in Clinton Hill. 99% of their clientele doesn't live in the nabe anymore.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:38 AM

Drew: 10:03 here. I agree that generalizing about the entire neighborhood is counterproductive and untrue. However, as you say, "crime obviously does affect certain areas...more than others." And if those moving into the area were prepared to recognize the problem areas (such as Clifton Place between Grand and St. James), as set forth in the 48 Clifton thread mentioned above) and help those who have been trying to clean up their blocks for many years absent police assistance (rather than just denying or ignoring problems in those areas, like the seller of #48 who insisted in the December thread that hugging these folks was "a joy"), the neighborhood would be improving faster. He came, he saw, he bailed. Certainly sellers and RE agents aren't going to educate buyers - it would be a conflict of interest. But the fact that a buyer spends over $1M on a brownstone doesn't automatically mean that the drug problems on that block will go away - particularly not if the problems aren't transient, as they're associated with owner-occupied buildings.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:38 AM

10:52,

No, your stats show that both Greenwich Village and Clinton Hill are both safe areas. And for the millionth time, I never said that "shit" cannnot happen anywhere. I said that areas with higher crime rates are far *likelier* to see something like this happen. Just because shootings and murders might happen occasionally in places like GV, does not mean that it's *equally* likely across the board, as people on this site love to imply. Again, shootings and murders of strangers by strangers are more common in high-crime areas like Crown Heights or Brownsville than in places like GV or Brooklyn Heights, where crime rates are much lower. If there's more shooting, the chances of an innocent person getting hit or killed increase. It's about rates, not individual cases.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 11:43 AM

Yeah, but the problem with many of the responses to all of these kinds of threads is to blanketly damn an entire neighborhood for what goes on in a very small part of that neighborhood. Why can't we just say that that particular corner of Clifton Place has problems? That doesn't make the rest of Clinton Hill "dangerous". For even larger neighborhoods like Bed Stuy and Crown Heights, a problem corner, house, or even entire block does not mean an enormous neighborhood like Bed Stuy is entirely dangerous.Ridiculous. Let's get some perspective on reality here.

Between the police, old and new residents who've had enough, and a relentless community effort to reclaim neighborhoods from predators, bit by bit, neighborhoods improve. What else can we do? Any loss of life is tragic, and a loss of innocent life doubly so. That's why we can't give up in working however we can to improve wherever we live. People need encouragement and help, not ridicule and scorn for choosing to live somewhere.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 12:02 PM

Did anybody near Clinton Hill hear three gunshots last night?

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 12:02 PM

12:02: "Old" residents of the area immediately around the shooting of yesterday discovered long ago that information given to the police was on the street within fifteen minutes, along with the identity of whoever provided that information. It's easy to say "we can't give up working to improve wherever we live," but when you've experienced that kind of thing firsthand, after having been urged to be "the eyes and ears" of the 88th, you realize you don't have backup in the fight. Or you make a police report and are told by the 88th that the episode "never happened" because the reporting officers didn't log it in. Or you have to fight to get a report number when you file a complaint, and go to your City Council person to force the issue - because it's better for the precinct stats to minimize the number of complaints. Or you get mugged, and the response from the interviewing officer is "what's a nice person like you doing living in a neighborhood like this? Why don't you move out?" Now let's see all the new money in the neighborhood put enough pressure on the 88th to clean up the drug traffic on Clifton Place. It would be such a shame to see a kid in one of those pricey strollers caught in the crossfire...

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 12:27 PM

Notice how one incident in PLG can provoke the same weird person or people to rant about it in every PLG thread for YEARS, but there's no sign of these trollish posts in threads about Clinton Hill, even when 3 shootings happen in Clinton Hill. Hmmmm, interesting.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 1:03 PM

is it possible "the what" is the psycho killer?

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 1:09 PM

PLG is for wimps. We shoot trolls in Clinton Hill.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 1:21 PM

Drew, that point has past - Clinton Hill is not a predominantly poor neighborhood anymore and police do respond quickly, at least now, because they do not view it as a dangerous area anymore either. Hogwash about not pressuring the police. That outdated thinking is why there are pockets of people who still don't try to improve things and "don't snitch". Well, things have changed. Get with the program and work with the rest of the neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 1:44 PM

Stats for Clinton Hill.

Median Household Income: $32,135
State Average: $43,393

Median Family Income: $36,188
State Average: $51,691

Per-Capita Income: $16,775
State Average: $23,389

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 3:04 PM

Actually, good point, 12:02. I agree that it is unfair to paint an entire neighborhood with a broad brush based on activity in only a few pockets. I only wish there were some way to pinpoint those pockets to increase awareness.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 3:14 PM

3.04, those sorts of stats on income can be skewed to reflect whatever agenda you wish to push. All you have to do is push the Clinton Hill boundary one block and cover the projects on Lafayette between Classon and Franklin, or count the large student community, to drop the median income. The owners of the buildings clearly make very good livings since they can afford 1.5MM and up houses that need a lot of work. Heck, my renting tenants make multiples of those statistics.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 3:38 PM

your comment just shows how out of touch with reality you are, 3:38.

while you may come into contact with many affluent people in clinton hill, these are the stats.

clinton hill is still a poor-ish neighborhood.

ignoring that fact does not make it disappear.

you can dicker all day about the border, but it doesn't change the fact that the influx of wealth into clinton hill is a VERY recent occurence and does not come close to boosting the overall median income at this point in time.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 3:51 PM

not for much longer 3.51, lol.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 4:09 PM

LOL, 1:21pm. Maybe we'll start.

Regarding the difference in speed of police responses discussed here, I felt the need to give praise to our 71st precinct in PLG. They're quick and they're on it. Also the precinct works closely with our neighborhood associations and their liaison officers even give out their personal cell phone #'s and email addresses to residents.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 4:14 PM

1:44: Again, generalizing about the entire neighborhood serves nobody. A block of Clinton Hill can be a micro-neighborhood, depending on what activity is entrenched there. All I can tell you is that on Clifton Place between Grand and St. James the 88th has historically not been interested. Does that mean they have an interest in not being interested? Who knows; it's been going on for at least thirty years, so they know who the players are and what they're doing. And PS: if you think self-protective behavior is hogwash, wait till you report dutifully to the precinct about drug dealing on your block, then get confronted on the street by a uniformed officer the very same day asking you at the top of his lungs, in front of dealers actively dealing, to "please identify the people you reported are dealing drugs on your block." You got a death wish? I don't. Please realize that all of Clinton Hill didn't suddenly mutate to what you paid for just because you moved in.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 4:58 PM

i live at 53 clifton. im scared as hell, i know most of the people on my block and for the most part they are good people. there are a lot of young kids and teens that hang out outside, and they were nothing but welcoming since day one. (also, in their defense, there are few that i would imagine being capable of taking on a crazed gunman) i have lived here for a year and a half and have always felt safe until now. i have heard of 2 (both fatal)shootings nearby in a week! something strange is going on here. it stinks cause i love my neighborhood. we are always bragging about the culture here, the cheap rent, the little businesses that spring up, and best of all, neighbors that have and would always help you out if you ever needed it... i knew coming in that it was a little rough at times, as it can be anywhere-- but my god, what is happening? should we not be moving forward, not backward?

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 9:44 PM

Over the long term, we're moving forward. And more investment in the area will keep us moving in that direction. It's a lot better now than it was 20 years ago, but the RE agents who tell buyers it'll be cleaned up in a year are (to be charitable) talking through their hats. The local police can't seem to make the activity stop. I think when the owners of the buildings in question find it more profitable to sell their buildings than to continue selling their current wares on the street, and those buildings are rehabbed and occupied by law abiding citizens, the problem will be solved. Anyone who wants to help and has the funds to do so can do a little research, identify the buildings, and make their owners offers they can't refuse. The new owners of the bodega building at the corner of Clifton and Grand, and the vast increase in pedestrian traffic on the Grand Avenue corridor are definitely building momentum in the right direction.

Posted by: guest at September 14, 2007 10:27 PM

I just called the 88th precinct. They still didn't catch the gunman. They are having their community council meeting this Tuesday 9/18 at 7:30pm at 85 S. Oxford Street between Lafayette and Greene Aves. I encourage everybody near and far to come out and ask the police to do more for the residents of Clifton Place. I have heard in the past that many residents of these blocks are way to scared to speak out at the police meetings. So do your neighbors a favor and show support for them and for the community at large. We have done this in the past at the 88th precinct meetings and it does help. The police come out in force usually for the regular meetings. I can only assume they will have a large number of off duty officers there. Show them that their work does matter by attending this meeting. Thanks.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 8:47 AM

POLICE MEETING CANCELLED? Just called the 88th precinct and they are saying the community council meeting might be cancelled for this Tuesday 9/18. You can call the community affairs officer on Monday to find out. 718.636.6511.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 8:56 AM

I just called the 88th and was advised that the Precinct Meeting this month has been cancelled. I asked whether it was cancelled before or after the shooting on Clifton Place, and nobody knew. I was told to call 718 636 6526 on Monday for the scheduling of NEXT month's meeting. Maybe they don't want to meet until they can announce "mission accomplished"?

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 11:46 AM

Good luck you guys! Community participation and interaction with the police really does help. Have you a neighborhood association for Clifton Place? If so, assign a resident to be the main liaison to the precinct. So even if meetings get cancelled, at least you have lines of communication open.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 2:22 PM

the 88th is known as a corrupt precinct. it has always been that and continues without impediment. people who have lived here 30 plus years will tell you they did everything, went to every meeting, etc. If anyone here has any friends in the press, any investigative journalist types who want to break a big serpico-like story, get them onto this. It is a big story and it is a sad story because for years they have taken advantage of the community. Tish, step up, get it cleaned up. help break the story.
ps. the victim was a known dealer.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 3:31 PM

the point is that parts of clinton hill are still rough.

rough enough that paying 2 and 3 million dollars to live there is absurd.

people are starting to realize that now. a little too late, but better late than never.

a huge lesson that is being learned from this housing bubble is to make sure you are paying for what a neighborhood is like NOW. not what you think it might be. park slope is expensive. rightfully so. it has turned the tide after many many years of working to create a safe, beautiful community and now other neighborhoods are following suit. Some neighborhoods like Clinton Hill have bigger obstacles to work through. More projects within close proximity to gorgeous tree-lines brownstones, more removed from public transportation and not enough of a tipping point yet to do much of anything towards improvement of the schools.

This things will happen, but when people come in investing such incredible amounts of money, they expect they should have the same level of comfort as they do in a neighborhood like park slope.

park slope was a big project to get it to where it is for many people. those in these new neighborhoods don't seem to have taken that same kindof initiative, but lots have this sense of entitlement that because they spent a lot of money, that it should just BE.

that isn't the way it works. these were neighborhoods...all of them...that had been neglected for many many years and were places that nearly none of us would have lived in 30 years ago.

they don't change without some serious work.

Posted by: guest at September 15, 2007 4:02 PM

Clifton Place between Grand and St. James has been fighting the same problem for over 30 years already. The difference is that Park Slope wasn't dealing with the 88th Precinct, and probably less frequently with owner-occupied problem buildings. Watch: when the precinct finally condescends to schedule another community meeting (after having canceled Tuesday's), everyone will be told ONE MORE TIME, "we can't do it without you, you gotta be our eyes and ears, here's the number for your community liason officer." And when someone reports in, the information and identity of the informant will be on the street immediately. What's the point? The improvement we've seen so far is thanks to our own efforts and the rise in RE values, not to the 88th.

After 30 years of letter writing campaigns, pressuring politicians, organizing meetings, and seeing more recent homeowners doing their best to pretend the problem doesn't exist (and the larger local community groups focusing on garden and house tours, avoiding the subject like the plague because they're afraid it might damage their property values), we're ready to hand off the baton to the new generation. Forget the 88th. Let's see the new money in Clinton Hill step up to the plate, purchase the problem buildings, populate them with law abiding citizens, and get rid of the infestation once and for all. Forget about the most recent celebrity sighting, quit looking at us "old timers" as just crotchety seniors who will eventually sell their homes to your friends, and do something for your community. It was our efforts that helped improve the neighborhood to the point where you got interested in the housing stock. Now you can finish the job we started.

Posted by: guest at September 16, 2007 12:54 PM

i just want to say that there have been some really good comments and threads on brownstoner this week.

12:54 has brought some very good points to the table and i agree 100%.

Posted by: guest at September 16, 2007 1:53 PM

I am the poster who originally brought up the Police's community council meeting. I am so annoyed that they have cancelled this meeting now. I know this block's long time residents have been burnt out fighting the deplorable situation on this block and in the precinct. We owe it to them and to ourselves to turn out IN FORCE to the next meeting. Bring signs, chant, do whatever it takes to get the attention of the police. And to call the media to attend this meeting. And Tish as well. Normally a rep from her office attends if she cannot. And I would like to invite everybody in brownstone Brooklyn to support this neighborhood as it struggles through this to participate. I know we all like to complain on here about other areas, but really folks we are dealing with one big city and one massive police force. They could have devoted more resources to this block. They knew about the problems on the block for ages. Even if this man who was shot wasn't a saint, he didn't deserve to be executed like he was. This was not a case of vigilante justice. This is a case of lawlessness. The cops should be held accountable. We got out hundreds of people to complain at a community council meeting about what appeared to be a rash of muggings nearby years ago. We can do it again. They need to step up.

Posted by: guest at September 16, 2007 8:14 PM

8:14pm, that's the spirit. You're right, this is an issue for all of Brownstone Brooklyn. Whether they went through this in the 70's and 80's, or they are going through it now, all of Brooklyn had to tackle these problems at some point or another. Brooklyn should behave like a true community, not take delight in misfortunes of other neighborhoods like we see here sometimes. Post a topic on Forum when you have set dates for your demonstrations, or you need signatures.

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 11:50 AM

Please spill the beans about this precinct. There are tons of journalists who troll these sites for story ideas. I know for a fact they are working on a story in the Times that developed in the comments of another topic within the past week. So please post anonymously with any solild info about the problems with the cops at the 88th. I have heard rumors through the years about lots of stuff. But if there are solid facts, or at least rumors with enough details that can be looked in to, then of course they can be followed up by credible journalists (which sometimes I think the NY Times has and sometimes I don't.) I have seen these cops act like thugs at times. To me at times. I have heard horror stories from the young kids who live in the projects being harrassed when hanging out on the sidewalks near the projects. But that doesn't = corruption. Let's nail them if they really are corrupt. Personally I can't see how some small time drug dealers could afford to pay off the cops to turn them entirely. Or even reasonably sized drug dealers? I mean there are a lot of cops you'd have to pay off to really make any headway wouldn't you. But maybe they can be bought cheap? Or maybe there's some other equation I just don't understand?

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 9:56 PM

Does anyone know if sketches or a description of the shooter have been made available to the public? (For those of us in the neighborhood who have no idea who "Psycho" is or what he looks like.)

Posted by: guest at September 17, 2007 10:24 PM

The shooter has been positively identified from a photo lineup, and we believe that is the only person being sought in the investigation. Today the precinct was asked by a Clifton resident to release the photo so we could see who they're looking for. That resident was told the precinct couldn't do that. Meanwhile, the 88th is camped on Clifton (it says 24/7) as apparently there's some concern that the shooter isn't far away and may return. There are unconfirmed reports that a witness living on the block may have been threatened, and that this may explain the police presence on the street.

With respect to 9:56's question, it's difficult to imagine how the 88th could be as ineffective as it's been on Clifton between Grand and St. James for the past 30 years absent corruption. They know the players and the MO, and so do we, but very little changes, despite attempted cooperation on the part of block residents...those cooperating have been identified to the dealers on the street, both directly by police and through a grapevine that may or may not include civilian employees at the precinct reputed to be friends of some of the dealers. So going through traditional channels in attempts to address the problem has gotten us threatened and accomplished little.

As stated above, this precinct has a long history of treating complaints regarding this block with an apathy approaching slumber. As in, "They're shouting and blasting music from SUVs and fighting and making noise past 1AM every night? It's the summer...it's Saturday night...that's a quality of life complaint, shootings take priority." "Gunshots? Anyone shot? No? Shootings take priority." "We need to use your house as an observation post. No? You're not cooperating." "Guys hanging out on the street in front of that house all day and night, making noise and slapping hands with passersby and bouncing a basketball off your cars while they wait for the next hand slap? So what you're saying is they're loitering; you can't prove it's drug dealing, can you? Gunshots take priority." Etc.

At 1:20 AM on Friday 7/20/07, six shots from an automatic were fired on the northern sidewalk in the middle of the block. Nobody was shot; at least ten pedestrians fled the scene before police arrived. A resident of this block has bullet holes in her car from another episode in which "nobody was shot." Well, now we've got gunshots AND a murder. And it's not the first time for that, either. So until they catch the shooter, maybe Clifton between Grand and St. James is now a "priority" for the 88th Precinct. And then it'll go back to business as usual.

Let's get serious: when you go to the 88th, you're ushered into a little holding pen with a lot of other people you've never met, and asked PUBLICLY to state your business in front of them. When you call the 88th and attempt to give information involving guns and drugs at your personal risk, you are almost immediately asked to give a name and phone number. And if you do, we know what happens next...

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 2:00 AM

Speaking of drug houses and drug dealers does anybody know what goes on with the folks at 100 Washington Avenue at Park Avenue?

Every afternoon and evening all I see are guys grilling hot dogs and drinking big 40 oz bottles of Busweiser. Always strikes me as odd.

Posted by: guest at September 18, 2007 10:11 PM

Thank you 2AM for your response. There must be something we can do as a community to demand or draw attention to the fact that we are not being given sketches or details of the assailant.

It's fine if a person has been positively identified, but for those of us new to the community (and wanting to contribute to the community's safety and improvement, if we are the "eyes and ears" of the po-po, then we need info from the po-po. At least for myself, I don't want to go on a vigilante justice rampade, but I would like to know if I happen across him and could be of help in notifying the police of a potential sighting. I feel like these sketches and bio details should be all over the place.

Simiarly to what you were saying, I feel like there should be public relations officers (not sleeper cars) active in the neighborhood.

I am relatively new here, although not new to urban violence. If in fact the police aren't doing their job, there are city councilpersons (James seems wonderful) and other elected officials whom it sounds like we should band together and press for action, for more visibility...and ironnically, transparency.

Does anyone else have ideas of whom to contact besides Councilwoman James?

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 2:09 AM

Thank you 2AM for your response. There must be something we can do as a community to demand or draw attention to the fact that we are not being given sketches or details of the assailant.

It's fine if a person has been positively identified, but for those of us new to the community (and wanting to contribute to the community's safety and improvement, if we are the "eyes and ears" of the po-po, then we need info from the po-po. At least for myself, I don't want to go on a vigilante justice rampade, but I would like to know if I happen across him and could be of help in notifying the police of a potential sighting. I feel like these sketches and bio details should be all over the place.

Simiarly to what you were saying, I feel like there should be public relations officers (not sleeper cars) active in the neighborhood.

I am relatively new here, although not new to urban violence. If in fact the police aren't doing their job, there are city councilpersons (James seems wonderful) and other elected officials whom it sounds like we should band together and press for action, for more visibility...and ironnically, transparency.

Does anyone else have ideas of whom to contact besides Councilwoman James?

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 2:15 AM

I've noticed a guest has come in here urging someone to go to the media to get them to do an investigation on the 88th Precinct; I have to wonder why the guest who's been urging someone else to go to the media isn't going to the media him/herself?

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 9:39 AM

US Marshals will sieze buildings of drug dealers, just like they siezed the one on the corner of Myrtle and Washington years ago. Get the feds involved if the local police refuse to act.

Posted by: guest at September 19, 2007 2:37 PM

WOW. It is crazy that the police will not release a sketch or photo of the individual. Does anyone else think there's a matter of public safety issue here? A "Psycho" who may still be in the area? My god, It would be nice to know when to get the hell out of the way.

Regarding 9:39's post (two posts ago), I had mentioned contacting Councilwoman James and asked about other thoughts of whom to contact. I had already contacted and planned a meeting with Councilwoman James. I'm assuming your comments were addressed at others' suggestions for media contact. As an aside, I do feel like councilpersons' involvement is more likely to cause change and action in the police department than media. In the end, the police don't answer to the media, they answer to the people who supervise their supervisors. Media coverage might also simply make our neighborhood look worse than I think it really is, but that is only my opinion.

However, I had no idea some of these problems were ongoing with the police. I have called many times when what sounded like an 80's garage band with no skill was practicing the same song (or the few bars they could play) over and over and over again, while the police do nothing for hours. This wasn't a little bit of loud music, it was like an air-raid amplifier was pointed into the heavens.

Also, these sketchy microcosms should be identified and communicated. For instance, all of Clifton Pl isn't bad. And, it's not just Clifton, for example it's that Society Cleaners building across from Clifton. (Dare I say what the hell is that questionable business doing??? Ever go in to drop off laundry? No one is there, and then all the hang-outs on the street come in to see why you are in there. Wow.)

I agree with 9:39 that we all have to TAKE ACTION. Call the police with noise complaints. Follow up when they don't respond (as I have done). Do it again. I have NO idea whether there is corruption going on, but there is always accountability. That's why I was suggesting Councilwoman James or Mayor Bloomberg. Any official who has a duty to respond to you and the power to effect change. I don't know if the police give a damn about what the media says, but they sure give a damn about the accountability placed on themselves and their higher-ups.

NOW: TO AGREE THAT WE SHOULD ALL TAKE ACTION--HERE IS INFO:
Councilwoman Letitia James
Letty7627@aol.com
718-260-9191

Peace to all.

Posted by: guest at September 20, 2007 3:57 AM

WOW. It is crazy that the police will not release a sketch or photo of the individual. Does anyone else think there's a matter of public safety issue here? A "Psycho" who may still be in the area? My god, It would be nice to know when to get the hell out of the way.

Regarding 9:39's post (two posts ago), I had mentioned contacting Councilwoman James and asked about other thoughts of whom to contact. I had already contacted and planned a meeting with Councilwoman James. I'm assuming your comments were addressed at others' suggestions for media contact. As an aside, I do feel like councilpersons' involvement is more likely to cause change and action in the police department than media. In the end, the police don't answer to the media, they answer to the people who supervise their supervisors. Media coverage might also simply make our neighborhood look worse than I think it really is, but that is only my opinion.

However, I had no idea some of these problems were ongoing with the police. I have called many times when what sounded like an 80's garage band with no skill was practicing the same song (or the few bars they could play) over and over and over again, while the police do nothing for hours. This wasn't a little bit of loud music, it was like an air-raid amplifier was pointed into the heavens.

Also, these sketchy microcosms should be identified and communicated. For instance, all of Clifton Pl isn't bad. And, it's not just Clifton, for example it's that Society Cleaners building across from Clifton. (Dare I say what the hell is that questionable business doing??? Ever go in to drop off laundry? No one is there, and then all the hang-outs on the street come in to see why you are in there. Wow.)

I agree with 9:39 that we all have to TAKE ACTION. Call the police with noise complaints. Follow up when they don't respond (as I have done). Do it again. I have NO idea whether there is corruption going on, but there is always accountability. That's why I was suggesting Councilwoman James or Mayor Bloomberg. Any official who has a duty to respond to you and the power to effect change. I don't know if the police give a damn about what the media says, but they sure give a damn about the accountability placed on themselves and their higher-ups.

NOW: TO AGREE THAT WE SHOULD ALL TAKE ACTION--HERE IS INFO:
Councilwoman Letitia James
Letty7627@aol.com
718-260-9191

Peace to all.

Posted by: guest at September 20, 2007 3:57 AM

Clean Society is just part of the Clifton Place action. The 88th is completely aware of it and has been for years.

Posted by: guest at September 21, 2007 10:15 PM

What does that mean that they are part of the action? As in illicit action? This is good info to know. We can band together to register complaints and have the police held to higher accountability. My thoughts are that when there is a complaint about the place, then contact city officials about whether the complaint is rectified or not.

Posted by: guest at September 24, 2007 1:57 AM

A comment about Society Cleaners. Who knows what proof there is with their involvement in anything. I agree with 9/21 post that what does happen is that it looks like a damn drug front. There is seldom anyone there during business hours. If you take laundry there, you wait forever for someone to answer the door. When someone does answer the door, there are suddenly a whole bunch of people gathered around the street.

I think the noise complaint is valid also. I have heard loud loud noise coming out of that building for hours and hours. I don't even know if it is the same people. Maybe just transients who pay rent. And the police definitely have been called. Its either that building or the one beside of it. It is horrible.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:31 PM

A comment about Society Cleaners. Who knows what proof there is with their involvement in anything. I agree with 9/21 post that what does happen is that it looks like a damn drug front. There is seldom anyone there during business hours. If you take laundry there, you wait forever for someone to answer the door. When someone does answer the door, there are suddenly a whole bunch of people gathered around the street.

I think the noise complaint is valid also. I have heard loud loud noise coming out of that building for hours and hours. I don't even know if it is the same people. Maybe just transients who pay rent. And the police definitely have been called. Its either that building or the one beside of it. It is horrible.

Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:32 PM

does anyone know how the situation is on clifton place in clinton hill these days? these posts about the shootings are 3 months old, and i'm wondering if anything has happened since. i just looked at a few apartments nearby and an apartment on clifton between grand and classon that i love, but the block itself made me nervous. yuppies with strollers sitting feet away drinking coffees, and then literally turn the corner and two dudes beating the crap out of each other on the street. alot of groups of young guys just hanging out in the middle of the day. not sure if this was all bad timing or a regular occurrence. would love any feedback, thanks a million!

Posted by: guest at December 16, 2007 1:23 PM

hey 1:23. Your absolutly right and it's so strange to me. Yuppies sipping lattes with their kids and then turn the corner and it feels weird. I looked at a couple of apartments close to the corner of grand and clifton. It's a really nice block but not sure about what goes on it. I was told it gets a little rowdy during the summer months and then it goes away. Yes, I have seen people hanging out during the day as well. As a whole, the neighborhood is changing so you could take your chances or not. good luck!

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 7:39 PM