« Signs of Life at 333 Carroll? House of the Day: 23 South Portland Avenue »
September 25, 2007
Condo of the Day: 34 Park Place
Whether to own half a house in a more upscale neighborhood or a full house in a less gentrified area, that is the question. It's a question we've discussed before, but it's made all the more relevant by this new listing at 34 Park Place which is asking $1,350,000. This particular apartment combines the parlor and ground floors along with the garden and cellar. Historic details are nicely intact and there's a recently renovated good-sized kitchen. According to PropertyShark, this is a standard Italianate brownstone with standard 20-by-45-foot dimensions. Given that a full house like this would sell for close to double the asking price on this unit, it looks pretty reasonably priced to us, at least on a relative basis. Agree?
34 Park Place [Aguayo & Huebener] GMAP P*Shark
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/2327
Comments
no
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:46 PM
Only two bedrooms? A big stretch.
And Aguayo sucks, no floor plan.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 12:48 PM
Condo conversions are such the way to go if you buy a house and are going to live in only half of it anyway. The costs to buy and renovate a house in Park Slope is so huge even a high rental income might not make sense financially. I know I'd rather have the $1.3 million up front than collect $3,000 rent per month and deal with the hassles of being a landlord.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:11 PM
how easy is it to convert a 2/3 family into condos?
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:35 PM
In this market? Yes,no question. Much better to own half a bstone in Park Slope than an enitre one in a "less gentrified area." It is only a matter of seconds before the slump hits full force, and we all know what happens to the less gentrified areas when prices drop--they drop a lot further than those in the established areas. I just can't see investing 1.3M in one of those areas at this stage of the market.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 1:39 PM
i agree with 'stoner. reasonably priced, good neighborhood and zoned for PS 282, a superlative school according to myriad reports. i'd offer 1.15M (will they take it?) and use the remainder to convert the basement into master bedroom and bathroom...that is if it's legal.
Posted by: Fjorder at September 25, 2007 1:47 PM
Not to mention that as things seem to be looking more and more grim in the economy, I'd rather hunker down in Park Slope over the next 5-7 years instead of in Bed Stuy.
Violent Crime was up 2% last year, was up in 2005 as well.
If the economy continues this downward spiral for the next couple years, Bed Stuy and other fringe areas are going to see a substantial rise in crime.
I'd rather be in a smaller, safer place knowing that the next few years are potentially going to be rough.
I've heard from people in PLG and Bed Stuy that crime is definitely up significantly this year over the past few.
While I'm not one for thinking that prices are going to tank (I actually think that in the prime areas of Manhattan and Brooklyn they'll probably stay relatively flat) I do think that some of the previous social ills that have stricken New York City in the past may again rear their ugly head...at least a little bit.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:12 PM
Buying half a house is really like entering into a marriage of inconvenience with total strangers. It brings with it all the responsibility of home ownership but none of the control. It is not a good way to own a living space. I recommend either buying a house, or buying a condo in a building with more than six or so units. Both are excellent means of owning real estate. But half a house? Forget about it. You're asking for trouble.
Posted by: sam at September 25, 2007 2:15 PM
Not such a new listing - it's been on the market at least a month.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:15 PM
Or maybe you're just not very easy to get a along with, Sam.
For lots of people, spending 3 million on a house isn't an option.
This is a good one for those with a more modest budget.
Condos are going to be in trouble if this housing stuff keeps up. People are going to try to rent out their places as they tire of their now outdated new construction and some of these places will turn into glorified dormitories. I think they are good for some.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:21 PM
It does not matter what your budget is, if you cannot afford a house in Park Slope, look in other neighborhoods or boros. Or buy a condo or coop in a larger building. But owning half a house, being tied by the hip one other family, is all downside. What happens if the other family goes bankrupt? What about if they refuse to pay for needed repairs? The problems are endless.
In a bigger building one can build a concensus and work around the nuttier or more difficult owners. But in a 2-unit condo, you are buying into whatever financial,legal, or personal problems beset the other family. This type of arrangement can ruin your finances as well as your mental health.
Posted by: sam at September 25, 2007 2:36 PM
would not convert basement into anything. was long time slope owner and know from my experience and others in the hood, that sewer back-up/flooding real problem.
do drains, sump pumps, whatever to keep dry. then, put laundry and lots of shelves for storage. keep everything in a rubber bin.
better off extending into backyard....
if you really do want to convert one of these basements into living space, get someone who understands how to handle the city sewer back ups.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:40 PM
This has been on the market for over a month. It's really a 1BR, 1 1/2 bath. You'd have to convert an open ground floor study into a BR. Also, the 1/2 bath is essentially in the kitchen (w/ no vent). Kind of a cramped layout.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:41 PM
That's absurd, 2:36.
You can live in Park Slope in a 250K studio or a 3.5 million dollar townhouse and everything in between.
Some people like PS very much and will sacrifice on a little space to live in an area they enjoy.
Personally I'd rather live in a 700 sf place in PS than a 3000 sf house in Bed Stuy.
But that's just me. I live in New York so that I can walk around to shops, restaurants, all my services, etc. It's what makes this such a great place to live for me.
To each his/her own.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:42 PM
PS 282 has gotten awful reviews from parents who send their kids there. Apparently, the principal is not motivated to improve the school.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:46 PM
well said, Sam.
Also, PS 282 has terrible reviews indeed... but this is possibly not too much of an issue for a 2 bedroom apt.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:49 PM
funny...i see a lot of great reviews from parents...
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=395
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:53 PM
4 stars outta 5 ain't bad.
http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/browse_school/ny/2728
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:56 PM
Not to be an ass, but wouldn't you say the student make-up of 282 and 321 are a wee bit different? Why is that?
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:57 PM
2:46 = 2:49 = 2:57
No one coming into the Elliman office today??
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 2:59 PM
I know somebody who's daughter graduated from PS282 and started at Yale this fall. How bad can it be?
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:01 PM
This is 2:46. No, I am not 2:49 or 2:57.
I asked the question about 282 vs. 321 some time ago when I was considering the neighborhood. My information is based on the candid responses from parents who actually send their kids to 282 or had firsthand knowledge of the school. The most knowledgeable parents' specific complaints related to the curriculum, the principal's willingness to meet with and listen to parents, and the principal's vision for the school. I would have loved to hear otherwise, believe me.
That's my source for what it's worth, and it's anecdotal. Just as "someone who graduated from 282 went to Yale" is anecdotal, but considerably less helpful.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:08 PM
I would say the two websites attached with many, many reviews from parents is more helpful than any of the said anecdotal hearsay.
But I suppose you think the comments on those websites are fakes??
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:10 PM
It's around 700 psf not counting what square footage you could salvage from the basement. Plus you get a private yard, right? That's a better deal than most big box condos. The train access is great (b/q, 2/3; walkable to Atlantic Ave when other trains are down). It's nice spot. Maintenance/Taxes seem reasonable. Not having seen the floorplan, there is probably 5 or 600 square feet of FAR left on the place, so you could convince the other two families to put an extension on the back and everyone could benefit.
Is it really a two family double duplex?
Most of these are usually three families with a duplex plus two floor throughs.
Speaking from experience, doing this with three people is really not that bad. We've put a new facade, new roof, new boiler, etc... on our coop. Each time, I was glad to be able to take a strong role in the decision, and also glad to be able to share that cost with two other families. I think in many ways this can be easier than a huge coop board. Also, the larger coop and condo buildings have larger maintenance costs.
It all depends on the person though. Some people don't want that. For me, it's like home ownership lite. For others, it would be a huge hassle to have to take out the garbage, shovel snow, etc...
Posted by: Park Place at September 25, 2007 3:15 PM
What is the real square footage of this unit? My understanding is the upstairs duplex owners have the stoop and parlor hallway.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:28 PM
how does this area get affected by AY, if at all?
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:39 PM
"I know somebody who's daughter graduated from PS282 and started at Yale this fall. How bad can it be?"
Andrew Cunanan graduated from one of the best private schools in the country and look what greatness he went on to achieve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cunanan
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 3:40 PM
George Bush went to Yale, He is pretty smart too, Just think if he went to PS 282 Hell he would be a genius. Other wise please buy this place near asking cause I live on the block and my brownstone is going on the market soon and I want a lot money in my bank account so I can get the hell out of dodge.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:29 PM
Yeah, but my friend isn't Skull & Bones, so her daughter got into Yale based on merit.
Anyhoo 4:29, the stagecoach is boarding, so giddyup!
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:37 PM
I am just in total shock that whatever jackass constantly pops into this comments section to facetiously mention the Atlantic Yards has not done so in this case when, for me, I was worried about the proximity to the Yards when this apartment was first listed MONTHS ago. I'd love to know what everyone thinks, in a non-baity way.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:38 PM
4:29
I'm afraid the news today is not good for you.
Home prices are at their lowest in 16 years.
Most wages and earnings seem stuck on hold. Americans are not saving. It does not bode well for resales at the moment.
But then again Brooklyn isn't really America as this blog can easily show. So maybe you will luck out.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:39 PM
"Home prices are at their lowest in 16 years."
Uh, no. Not even close. Try reading the news a little more carefully.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:43 PM
Better yet, skip the news altogether and peep Robert J. Shiller.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:57 PM
4:38 - I asked the same question. I think it's an issue, certainly as far as parking, traffic (car & human), pollution, etc. are concerned. This one's not right next door but pretty close. I'm sure it won't be like living in midtown near the garden, but on game night you'll see tons of cars and pedestrians... Also, with that many new residences coming online, housing supply in the neighborhood goes up dramatically, which could affect pricing. This is a different type of residence, but still.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 4:59 PM
I think the news out today was that housing prices dropped by the largest amount in 16 years. that is not so bad. Besides, it is problem mostly in places like Miami and Atlanta and other faraway American cities. Not here.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:00 PM
If PS 321 were not right up the street from PS 282, nobody would every say PS 282 was a "bad" school. They would have criticisms, sure, but they wouldn't say it was "bad". Opinions of PS 282 are always only relative to PS 321. As for those who think all you need to do is toss a kid into a generally good public school and he/she'll be set for life, good luck with that! I've personally only seen that lots of work at home with a child, regardless of school district, is what makes a kid a good student throughout their life.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:05 PM
My parents tossed me in public school and never gave a shit about my studies, and I did turn out a pathetic wreck. Blogging away my days. I don't even have a posting name. I'm suprized I can even spell.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:13 PM
Ps. 282 is probably one of the 5 best public elementary schools in New York City.
5:05 is right on the money. Some people can't grasp the fact that Park Slope has 2...YES 2 very good schools.
You can continue to hate it or you can accept it and move on.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:22 PM
They can't accept it, 5:22 because the new generation of parents are creepily hyper competitive. They always have to be the better parents in some way or another.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:26 PM
I agree that some of them, are...5:26.
But a few bad apples should not ruin the whole bunch, I say.
There are plenty of "good seeds" in Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:28 PM
i saw this place last weekend at the open house. priced way too high for what it is. 2 bedrooms and not even a 2nd bathroom. its a little old school in style as well although in good shape. work would need to be done. and its not 1800 square feet. more like 1650. access to the apt is from the ground floor so people walk into the bedrooms first. not a grand entry way. the price is just too high. my prediction is it will stay on for some time unless the asking price drops significantly.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 5:54 PM
4:39 is a joke right.
Not only are home prices not at their lowest in 16 years as stated, wages have recently begun to show significant inflation, a major factor in the fed's inflation fighting stance.
What planet are you living on
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 7:17 PM
News from planet XXRRTSPHHT to Planet Clinton Hill. Real Estate prices in the United States of America are falling at a fast clip. If you bought an overpriced propertry in marginal neighborhoods of Brooklyn in the past two years you are in deep shit.
This concludes our broadcast.
Posted by: guest at September 25, 2007 9:02 PM
I stopped by the Open House for this place this past weekend and was not impressed with the apt and the asking price. It's barely a 2 bedroom and the garden offered little privacy and needed a great deal of work. It's a nice place, but certainly not worth 1.3.
Posted by: superkb at September 26, 2007 12:20 AM
I meant new generation of parents everywhere in the country, 5:28. It's not only in Park Slope. I agree, it's very silly for people to bash all Park Slopers like that.
Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:42 AM
Oh you wish, 9:02 pm. If these houses were as much as 20% less you still couldn't afford them.
Besides, who exactly are you trying to worry? Most plan to stay long term when they bought the houses in the first place. These people are not flippers, they don't give a crap what the home value is two years after they bought it. They're thinking about 10 to 20 years later.
Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 11:50 AM
7:17 - what planet are you living on? earth 6-12 months ago? house prices: down, employment: down, durables: down. the fed just cut rates b/c economic downturn concerns trumped inflation concerns. when was the last time you read a financials newspaper?
Posted by: guest at September 26, 2007 12:47 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.