House of the Day: 30 South Portland Avenue

This is probably just one more person fleeing AY. They'd be lucky to get $500K for this place after AY is built, so they're getting out now, as are many others.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 1:37 PM

Yes. That. Is. True. Atlantic. Yard. Robot.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 1:42 PM

With its unconventional configuration, it would have been nice to have a lot more photographs.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 1:44 PM

If any place deserves to go for 2.6 in the neighborhood then this is it. Beautiful building, renovations... and perfect location. Thats still a helluva lot of money, but if I had that much to shell out it would be on something like this.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 1:56 PM

Only thing that could hurt it is the configuration (and the higher rates for jumbo mortgages if financed). Location is fantastic and the few pics look nice.

lp

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 1:58 PM

I yearn for one post with no "Atlantic Yards effect" responses...

I think this house is quite reasonable versus 181 WP (I have been inside) The only issue with this one is it's 18.5 ft wide (right? I could hardly read the floor plans)

It does have some big benefits versus 181 specifically more updated taste and central air conditioning (real a/c not those Mr. Slim things)

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:00 PM

I'm new to this site (and not a troll, really, just curious), but having lived in Ft. Greene in the past and being that I'm looking to move back soonish, isn't it likely that the Atlantic Yard development will actually send prices of places like this downward? More importantly, won't they affect the best of living in Ft. Greene pre-A.Y.--like won't all the great little restaurants and all else be more crowded as well as parking, the subways and all the access roads into the area?

Before you flame me, just keep in mind I'm new here and am just wondering about my former (and hopefully future) 'hood. Thanks!

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:08 PM

poperty shark lists the width of the lot as 20ft.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:14 PM

Regarding AY: More residents and commercial space may mean that transit is more crowded but you also have more patrons for all the things that make neighborhoods like Ft. Greene great. I would expect more "great little restaurants" and other boutiques etc. Sure parking may be a problem, especially when the stadium is in use but they will be including a lot of garage spaces for that purpose and I would expect a lot of the fans to use mass transit. So on the whole, I do not see that wonderful neighborhoods like Ft. Greene will see prices drop because of AY. Just think about the lovely brownstone blocks on the UES located only blocks from dozens of highrises on 2nd and 3rd Aves.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:22 PM

I agree with anon 2:22. I live relatively close by and I don't know anyone that is selling because of AY. I think there will be more of amenities. And if like the first troll said that place ever goes for 500k I'll be first in line...ah to dream.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:32 PM

The AY discussion is 100% hypothetical and utterly absurd. I own a house in the 'hood and chat with my neighbors daily. Not ONE has EVER mentioned selling due to the project. All anyone talks aobut is their latest house upgrade/repair/renovation project and how much they love FG and so on. Enough with the everyone-will-flee B.S. please -- take it to another thread.

On a more interesting/relevant note, has anyone been inside 30 South Portland? It looks lovely and I'd like to know more details. What's up with the unusual layout on the 4th/5th floors? Are the kitchens and baths decent, i.e. relatively modern? Do tell!

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:04 PM

Wow, amazing how dogmatic people can be. 2:52 seems to be the only person with a moderate viewpoint—instead of either "everyone will sell, prices will collapse," or "this won't affect anything, all five of my friends aren't selling, so there won't be any effect at all."

AY + the sub-prime issue and the shaky economy at large... I think we will see some decline... but probably nothing catastrophic.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:19 PM

What do you think of this compared to 211 Carlton? (August 3 Open House Pick) http://www.elliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=873816

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:24 PM

It's not entirely hypothetical. I know two people in Ft. Greene who've sold citing AY as one of the reasons (not the only reason, but an important reason nonetheless). I also know someone in Clinton Hill who is thinking about selling, again in large part because of AY.

I also know a broker who has had quite a number of people come to him wishing to sell because of AY. So yes, it is indeed happening.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:27 PM

I'd take this over the carriage house on Vanderbilt anyday. And as someone who owns a 1 br in a brownstone quite near the footprint, I have to tell you folks that selling to get away from AY is very much in the air. I hear it at open houses, I hear it from friends, I think about it myself. It's the boondoggle of the century and can only end badly.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:29 PM

This area has improved dramatically over the past twenty years and is now considered extremely desirable. There is no reason why they should not get their asking price or more, especially since the income from the large rental unit will be substantial. It is a very attractive block; a movie set brownstone block.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:37 PM

I have also considered moving because of AY. So far I've allowed blind inertia to keep me where I am, but it seems like I'm closer to calling a RE broker every day...

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:39 PM

comparing this to carlton, its like comparing a yugo to a cadillac.

layout is a bit funky but still looks delicious - 10 times better value than 181 wash park (i feel sorry for that byr)

atlantic yards isnt a big deal for the area the stupid trolls who keep on talking about it probably bitter losers who pissed off about their existence

i think real estate as a whole everywhere will come down significantly but this property here is the 1st one ive seen in long time that should be worth something around asking price (but of course cash will be king since mortgage markets closed)

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:40 PM

I am surprised to read that people are taking this AY phobia seriously.
If that is truly the case, I would expect a sharp, 30% or more, decline in prices in the area. In real estate, as soon as there is a trace of fear in the air, the bottom starts to fall out. It could be a great opportunity for folks who thought they missed the boat. But the boat could be making a round trip.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:50 PM

Of course, living in Clinton Hill, I guess you have an interest in attributing this all to a troll.

Shame on you Mr. B.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 3:58 PM

Yeah, well, we've seen how much good your "user names" are. Just ask Brower Park.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 4:08 PM

Stoner,
I will try again to get my user ID, my first attempt failed, I never got the e-mail.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 4:33 PM

I think I'll pass on the user ID. It just sounds like a way to identify some people as 'in the club'. If that is what it's for, it sucks and this blog will suffer for it.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 4:41 PM

if everyone used user names it would be revealed that there are only about 8 addicts to this site who post endlessly on every thread.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 4:50 PM

Ok- now all you haters are going to make me sign up and get a user ID. Dont like the idea, but all you damn trolls and racists made Mr B do it.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 5:10 PM

whats this site all about anyways

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 5:11 PM

Go back and read some posts from the last few weeks. I think you'll find that the haters on this site are the ones who USE a user ID.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 5:30 PM

This discussion got off track fast. Sorry to the owner.

Now, since you'alls are probably hungry enough for details and since the topic got off on a tangent, here goes:

The house had a major addition to the back adding a dining room, sleeping area and balcony on the parlor floor which extended out over an existing mudroom (which is still there). It created an outdoor space for the 3rd floor rental apartment. The lower duplex parlor floor bedroom area can be made more private since there are pocket doors between the front and back parlors—the back parlor now more like a middle parlor which has a full bathroom with clawfoot tub and closet fitted out to be a kind of wardrobe. The addition-created back bed area has a Murphy-style bed that flips up out of the way so the entire space can look like a living space. That area has large doors that open out on the balcony. The ground floor also has what is listed as a parlor/living room (the burgundy room in the photographs) and can serve as the main bedroom. The building has an upper duplex which has a balcony on the top floor looking out over the living room—Derek Jeter has visited that apartment—maybe all it’ll take to sell the place. As mentioned, there is a single-floor 1-bedroom apartment with deck over the recent extension. There is much to say on the house. I’ll stay on the positive. Compared to the house on the park, if it is the one I think everyone is mentioning, that one-family that went for $3+m...this house has more income potential but it has not undergone the complete renovation the one on the park went through. I walked through the renovation of the house on the park and saw how fully that one was renovated. It was completely updated from top to bottom…and frankly, the finally decorating, furniture, color schemes, etc. made it look like an upscale B&B. It was large enough for a family of 10 but had one person with a staffer and the staffers kid living there. The S.P. House is more tasteful and has had work done on it here and there over the years. Parts of it are in excellent shape but some dough may have to be put into certain aspects down the road. There is some quirky electrical work but there’s plenty of lighting and outlets. A gas grill hooked up to Keyspan in the garden. Wired for satellite. Alarm system in… Anyone who can drum up the mortgage/down payment will not have a problem ripping out the upper bathrooms or kitchens--in fact, an eventual buyer may take over the third floor for bedrooms. The house on South Portland is NOT being sold because of A.Y. It’s being sold because of J.A. If anyone noticed, it is mentioned somewhere the owner has been in the house for 30 years. My God time flies!
The house played host to a recent Fort Greene Association holiday party (which basically has an open door policy) and has been on the FG house/garden tours so many people may know the house. We’ve all gotten smashed there at one or more parties over these many years. Sorry to see the house’s owner leaving our village!

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 6:50 PM

I would like to apologize to everyone, and most especially the owner of the house we're discussing, for that last post. There are some seriously obnoxious posters on this site. Sadly there's little to be done about it.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 7:59 PM

Yes So. Portland brownstones are lovely buildings -- but really the schools there aren't fabulous -- and I might add that the neighborhood is still patchy in some respects. If I am going to pay that price, I'd choose Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, or Brooklyn Heights... FWIW, I worked very close to that street until recently...

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 10:38 PM

10:38--are you for real? That neighborhood is "patchy"? Good god.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 11:10 PM

10:38 -- Are you new to this site? Official Brownstoner Rule: All Brooklyn neighborhoods are equal. The danger from crime is equal, the services are equal, and the schools are equal, insofar as Brownstoner Rule #2 is: everyone who owns a brownstone should send their kids to private school anyway. (The great thing is, supporting your local public schools has nothing to do with community! Because we are all about community at Brownstoner!)

In summary, there is no reason to consider one neighborhood superior to, or worth more than, another unless you are a RACIST.

Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 11:52 PM

This is some othr broker's listing -- not mine -- so it must be crap.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 6:58 AM

What is A.Y. anyway?

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 6:59 AM

Very nice home. Should fetch the asking price - looks worth it!

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 7:22 AM

I hope they get the asking price because this place will be pretty worthless after AY is complete. At least these people are smart enough to know when to cash in their chips.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 7:54 AM

I am a broker,been doing this for more years than most of you kids have been alive.
Last time things were this bad, there was a
differnt Bush in the White House.
Manhattan knows the slump; look at the real figures. If you are paying your mortgage with rental income, watch out. You kids have cotton in your ears? Prices have been too high for too long,there had to be a correction

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 8:26 AM

A.Y. = Atlantic Yards Project (Nets Arena)

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 8:57 AM

Are people forgetting that 10 So. Portland sold last year for over 2.6 million? And number 10 was seriously in need of cosmetic and systems rehab. Also, 50 So. Portland sold for 2.2 million last year in 2 days, by owner, and it was only 4 floors. I think this place will sell for 2.6 hastily. I bought a 22 footer one street over last year for 2.1+ and am putting at least 500k into it for a full gut renovation. No one is building any more historic brownstones so as far as I'm concerned they're only becoming more valuable. Atlantic Yards sucks, but it ain't driving me from the neighborhood where I've lived for 8 years.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 12:51 PM

Well put Mr. 12:51PM But remember: what happened last year may not hold true this year…considering skittishness and the credit crunch for large mortgages.

...Though a friend (and family) bid last week on an Park Slope 11th St. (5/6 Ave. I think) 3-story brick rowhouse at ask price coming in over the four other slightly-below ask bids but found out within days they’d been outbid by yet another offer…so I guess the demand is still there. Yes, agreed. So-called brownstones are not growing on trees. I wonder how a changing demographic, rising fuel costs, etc. might change their desirability once the baby boomlet also ages (but that’s another thread). For example, one friend sold her house because of her knees conflicting with stair-climbing all day, up and down, up and down (we all do it…forget something all the way upstairs and then climb to the top of the house, go back downstairs and realize DOH! I forgot something else now! Argh!!!)

12:51PM, you state "I bought a 22 footer one street over last year for 2.1+ and am putting at least 500k into it for a full gut renovation." Question: can you adopt me? I am litter boxed trained and don't eat much.

Seriously Folks, 30 South Portland will sell, no question. Yeah! Yes, a certain amount of systems work will need to be done over time but the structure is sound and the brownstoning and ironwork were redone tiptop (one less worry). The extension was worth the money and the garden redo is very pleasant.

To 7:59 PM: Thank you for “apologizing to everyone on the site” for what was a balanced description on the house by 6:50. A number of people commented offline after reading your retort and found the 6:50 PM description was fair. Nothing that might impinge the sale of the house was mentioned. It was not obnoxious but informational. In fact, it was pointed out by 6:05 that 30 S. Portland has loads of income potential. Anything negative you may have gleaned was a reference to the B&B-like final incarnation of the OTHER house being referred to on the thread, the one that sold for 3+ on the park.

To those of you who think the owner is selling and getting’ out just before the bubble pops or A.Y. (not a done deal) towers start going up, word has it the owner has alimony and five kids in either boarding school, college or grad school. [Just kidding…just a bit of humour]

Ear on the rail: by the way, a brick rowhouse in FG 3-family "prime block" (whatever that means) is going to or has come on the market. Wondering what the seller will list it at since it just changed hands in 2005 and was owner-non-occupied during these two years...just rentals and no updating or cosmetic work done since the purchase. Perfect for an owner-occupied lifestyle with two income aparts upstairs. The duplex may need a bit of reconfiguring since it only has one real bedroom right now.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 1:51 PM

No they're becoming less valuable. Prices are dropping buddy. They ARE building brownstones. You're building a brownstone, albeit from inside out, and there's thousands more that are either under construction (from inside out) or need to be built (from inside out). There will be no shortage of brownstones when the sell-off begins. So we don't need anyone to build anymore brownstones for prices to fall. A brownstone is no big deal unless it's restored. And you know that 500k will turn into 700k when it's all said and done. Hell, that's what a similar house sold for in 1997. 2.1+ and then have to dump another 500 to 700 to restore to glory? Way overvalued right now. It was a fun ride though.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 1:54 PM

Um... Mr. 1:54...are those song lyrics or excerpted from a poem? What's with the "from inside out" refrain? Sorry..but it’s a bit (even deliciously) amusing. Now, factually, brownstones are not going up all over the place. It just doesn't pay. Most developers are putting up larger buildings. The "brownstones" that *are* being built are generally hastily and lousily built rowhouses that are not all that desirable considering class, caste, economic issues in NYC. You might as well go live in a townhome in a suburban development.

I don't think the couple with one German and the other an American partner, spoiled, sated by gorging too young in life are going to jump at a newly built rowhouse in Brooklyn. Has anyone checked out the uglier-than-ugly in-fill house on Carlton in Pros. Heights that has been featured on this site? Yeahhh…eventually one unit sold but…I rest my case. It’s fugly. Has anyone wondered what in heck is taking so long on what ended up being a very blahhhh in-fill on Cumberland between Lafayette and DeKalb? It could have been cute with a little more sense but it looks blech from the front…no cornice (yuck), the dumb’n’ugly “bay”/bump out (still with its exposed Tyvek after a year) with a completely different window configuration than the main body of the façade, the boring, off-the-shelf “brownstoning” door “hood” and surround. Has Mr. 1:54 seen the moderate income townhomes going up. There is NO comparison with Brownstone Brooklyn.

Okay, so mod rowhouses got built on State Street (would love to see their eventual heating bill what with that glass wall in the back going on)...okay, okay...but the historic landmark district brownstones and rowhouses are in limited supply. And, if 1:54's supposed soon-upon-us end-time comes, how in heck are all these historic brownstones going to flood the market, pray tell? Where are the people living in them going? Are they all fleeing NY or running to apartments in order to “downsize”? Anyone running back to Kansas? Honestly. Yes, there probably *will* be a partial "sell-off" (1:54's words, not mine)and the supply will outpace demand at some point...and maybe soon... And, yes, prices will probably drop and maybe never come up to the same current real dollar purchase prices in the future…maybe…but if they REALLY plummet in Brownstone Brooklyn, then RUN FOR THE HILLS! Nowhere will be safe…we’ll be in total economic collapse.

Seems people forget that despite the discrimination, inequity, relatively high crime, high average infant mortality, stagnant social mobility, failing infrastructure, large numbers of non- and under-insured, a negative savings rate, a whole generation unfortunately fed on Reagan-era and subsequent eco-junk-rhetoric, we are still, in NYC in the center of (or at least the center of one area of) the Empire. The Empire State…a state of Empire…but not in the same sense as those pointless "NYC Capital of the World" streetlight banners would have you believe. Thems for the tourists.

Let's look on the bright side, at least 1:54 is telling us a house 10 years ago sold for 2.1m (not in FG; me thinks 1:54 is dreaming) so one would think brownstone Brooklyn will hold its value using that logic, no? And also on the bright side, 1:54 is not fixated on AY.

Look, some Wall Streeter, overpaid attorney, foreigner or MD's kids will buy 30 Portland for the asking price and throw another 300K into it afterward.

And don’t forget, that when you’re feeling blue, you can always sing 1:54's comment set to music:

They ARE Building Brownstones (Brownstoner Dude, can you make this your site’s anthem?)

They ARE building brownstones.
You're building a brownstone,
Albeit from inside out, and there's thousands more that are either under construction
(from inside out)
Or need to be built
(from inside out)
There will be no shortage of brownstones when the sell-off begins.
(from inside out)
So we don't need anyone to build anymore brownstones for prices to fall.
(from inside out)
A brownstone is no big deal unless it's restored.
(from inside out)
And you know that 500k will turn into 700k when it's all said and done.
(from inside out)

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 3:06 PM

Someone please tell me where the above person lives so I don't accidentally buy a place next door.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 3:24 PM

Yes, 3:24, make sure you don't move in next door. Your attitude is too excruciatingly gorgeous. Might blind everyone...Such a wonderful curt comment...I will desist from any further comments on this thread because I'm upsetting the faint-at-heart. But let me ask, 3:24 (Egads. I shudder), could you really afford to move in next door? I mean, is there a risk? Yikes! Groucho: "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member." :-)

No, but seriously, sometimes the ill written, the discombobulated, the ignorant, and yes, the spoiled comment deserves to be celebrated. These comments can be downright hysterical!

Look. People on this site are just drooling for real juice (admit it), gossip, criticism and some insights (other than “We had Vinnie’s do our ironwork.”). Are you getting enough? Why can’t a comment encompass a whole bunch of the mess going on? What? Do we have to have a thread for each little house address or ill-run construction site? There are global issues going on that need some airing and go beyond house prices, AY fighting, and My-kitchen’s-cooler-than-Yours discussions. This site [Brownstoner Dude, we like it, don’t worry] could sometimes use a little more zest beyond links to articles, ads and other blogs that aren’t terribly informative.

Assignment: Has anyone checked out the following?
http://www.cepr.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1267&Itemid=77

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 4:41 PM

What is the AY anyway?

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 6:04 PM

This is some other broker's listing -- not mine -- so it must be crap.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 6:06 PM

Yeah, I have a response for 3:06. Uhhh...WHAT!

Say "no" to yayo.

Posted by: guest at August 28, 2007 8:44 PM

Does this site really help anyone?

Posted by: guest at August 29, 2007 8:17 AM

Commenter 6:50 pm said "The house on South Portland is NOT being sold because of A.Y. It’s being sold because of J.A."

What is "J.A."?

thanks

Posted by: guest at September 1, 2007 12:36 AM

A: the initials of the seller...

Posted by: guest at September 1, 2007 11:22 PM

Does anyone, especially 6:50 pm commenter, know if the main parlor has the original details intact, i.e., crown and dental moldings? I've seen the houses right across the street from 30 South Portland and the parlors are absolutely beautiful and full of original moldings.

Thank you...

Posted by: guest at September 1, 2007 11:36 PM

Can someone PLEASE explain why this brownstone is described as a 5-story building when it only has 4 stories? I am new to this subject and I am completely baffled by this. From the Property Shark picture, you can clearly see the garden level and then 3 floors--total equals 4 stories. There is no basement. What is the deal ??

Posted by: guest at September 4, 2007 5:09 AM

Parlor has crown moulding.

Has a "hidden 5th story": Full story in the back and roof slopes down to the front so it appears as four stories from the street. Look at the floor plans on the sale site. You'll see the upstairs duplex has a loft that looks out over the livingroom.

Is everyone here curious or actually thinking of buying?

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 2:58 PM

I think this house is gone. As of today there were 3 offers on the house. Sigh...

Posted by: guest at September 6, 2007 3:32 PM