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August 23, 2007
House of the Day: 407 Vanderbilt Avenue
While everyone else has been at the beach, Mr. Minsky was teeing up his latest townhouse listing, a three-story converted carriage house at 407 Vanderbilt Avenue on the Clinton Hill-Fort Greene border. It looks to us like the interior was completely gutted and renovated from scratch. We're not particularly partial to nouveau traditional stylings (it feels kinda suburban to us) but the quality is probably decent and this is quite a large place (PropertyShark puts the square footage at 6,500). Nonetheless, the asking price of $3,500,000 seems aggressive. After all, it took the Pfizer mansion at 280 Washington Avenue a couple years to sell and it ultimately fetched only about $3,200,000. And that was back when you could get a decent jumbo mortgage.
407 Vanderbilt Avenue [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Very beautiful interiors but what's with the ugly garage door? It is such a stunning facade, it needs a proper set of carriage house doors, even the faux kind that actually fold up but they look like they swing out.
I assume there is room for a car or two in there.
floorplans would help,
But what I see I love.
the price is ridiculous though.
...sigh
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 1:48 PM
I think the interior is very well done. I remember when they were fixing this place up a few years ago.
The price seems awfully high though.
lp
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 1:51 PM
To be fair, that exterior photo came from PropertyShark, since the listing failed to provide one. It's likely that the owner cleaned up the exterior as well.
Posted by: brownstoner at August 23, 2007 1:52 PM
Where's the fourth floor?
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 1:56 PM
Looks nice. But my parents paid 85k for their place one block down, and this block isn't exactly quiet -- B38 goes right by, BLHS is across the street, the SRO for the homeless is one block away, the north end of this block has the middle income housing project, etc..
3.5 is crazy talk.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 2:16 PM
Bishop Loughlin is not accross the street...
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 2:18 PM
Minsky Crack. Break-dancing in a mine field. The financial markets are going thru turmoil now.
We are heading for a depression. Please don't call me chicken little, just look around you. America is fucked.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 2:20 PM
If I'm not mistaken, this place is NEW construction--it was either a teardown or an empty lot, and the owner painstakingly built this to fit in with the streetscape.
Pshark says it was built in 2002, which sounds right.
The B38 is down the block, not on Vanderbilt.
The price seems a little high, but it's a lot of square footage AND brand new construction--no (okay, less!) major house maintenance to deal with than an old carriage house or a brownstone.
Posted by: tinarina at August 23, 2007 2:26 PM
lovely restoration, but that interior—with the exception of the head—looks like a colonial in the 'burbs.
Posted by: Fjorder at August 23, 2007 2:29 PM
Yeah, this is new. I remember when they were building it.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 2:30 PM
The interiors look completely new to me but the facade looks original. Stoner says it is an old photo though, so maybe that beautiful old facade bit the dust?
I will explore this further this weekend.
I don't get the comments about the suburban look. The interiors are fairly sophisticated. The huge arched window set between the two small rectangular windows is to die for.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 2:51 PM
6 bathrooms? Why does a 3 bedroom house need 6 bathrooms? Somebody please explain this to me.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:04 PM
B69 bus goes down Vanderbilt. if it's a new construction that looks this good, maybe they think that justifies the price?
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at August 23, 2007 3:06 PM
Gosh, that is one of the most beautiful buildings I have ever seen in the US. Worth a bike ride over there. Thanks for the posting.
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 23, 2007 3:06 PM
The listing says it is a four story house but because we do not have an up to date exterior shot, we do not know what exterior atrocities may have been committed.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:08 PM
I will take some photos over the weekend and post them here if anyone is curious...
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 23, 2007 3:10 PM
Sorry B38 is on lafayette, 52 on greene, and 25 on gates or fulton. and BLHS is diagonally across the st.
The B69 goes right by this place. and it is LOUD.
Not to mention atlantic yards.
Personally, I hope that they get their price -- if they do I'll tell my parents to sell their 25'er for 3 and move to jersey where they can buy the same thing for 600k.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:20 PM
Isn't it ironic that a "Minsky Monment" is defined as "the point where credit supply starts to dry up, systemic risk emerges and the central bank is obliged to intervene"
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ddb7842c-50c2-11dc-86e2-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2Fddb7842c-50c2-11dc-86e2-0000779fd2ac.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fhome%2Fus
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:21 PM
I love the arched windows, too - best feature of the house, if the pictures are any indication.
Price is rather steep, but someone will fall in love with it, someone who has deep pockets and wants a cool pad that's different from everything else. They may pay less than this, but not significantly. This is one of those places that doesn't fit well into trends. Maybe a European, or an entertainment type person.
Re 2:16 - I don't think every high rise building or series of buildings is a "housing project" - middle income or not. By that broad definition, Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village are "projects". They would stridently object, as would the people on Vanderbilt.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:24 PM
Hey 3:06pm, Did Jerry offer to buy you candy to make that comment? It what way exactly is this one of "the most beautiful buildings I have ever seen in the US"?! HUGELY over-priced for the location, regardless of the size. Still, all you FG/CH denizens had better be thankful to the Minsky man for the currently vastly inflated values of your homes. That is, unless you bought in the last 3-4 years -- in which case negative equity is coming your way!
Posted by: NeoGrec at August 23, 2007 3:25 PM
your comments never cease to disgust me, neogrec.
i hope you don't have children to inflict your horrible attitude about EVERYTHING onto.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:35 PM
Calm down, Jerry.
Posted by: NeoGrec at August 23, 2007 3:42 PM
There aren't too many places in Brooklyn one could live that don't have a bus either on your street, or on one of your corners. Sheesh, we complain public transportation is not convenient, and then we complain it's too close. I'm near a corner near a busy bus route, and I don't even hear them anymore. You can get used to anything. The Vandy bus is the only one that actually goes by the house, mentioning the other lines is just looking for things to complain about.
A Catholic High School is probably as good as it gets, if you have to have a school across the street.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:43 PM
Jerry, please take your meds. Really. neogrec did say something nice about your I think. Keep it in perspective.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 3:45 PM
Is that flat screen tuned to Fox News? Horror!
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:07 PM
This house belongs to the actor
Jeffry Wrights (chk SPL)
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:20 PM
Dear NeoGrec,
Is it your opinion that everything is going down the tubes or just FG and CH? Or do you think that FG and CH are going to be separate and harder hit? I understand the concern of AY having an impact on property values there aside from the current state of affairs. So is it the whole area or just certain blocks close to the project? Do you think that the neighborhood is just shit and that people have lost their minds to buy there? Hey, I am open to listening.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:44 PM
That is not a new building, peeps-- no whey. Nobody builds houses like this today, and if they attempted it, it wouldn't be this successful--it also wouldn't have this lovely color of brick, which oddly seems extinct anymore. Personally, I think it's pretty damned sweet from the front; I love carriage houses, and this is one of the fancy ones. I would definitely like it better if it had some original details inside, but it looks like they did a pretty good job on the rehab. Bathroom looks pretty posh, arched window is great, etc.
Still, I agree with everybody that the price is looney. Pfizer mansion is way bigger, packed with period yummies, and on a better block (Washington Ave between Dekalb and Willoughby)--a busy block, but one that has no bus line, SRO, or school.
Posted by: Rehab at August 23, 2007 4:45 PM
And for god's sake, this house is plenty far enough away from tlantic Yards.
Posted by: Rehab at August 23, 2007 4:46 PM
this house is NEW
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:49 PM
The Pfizer is not the comparison that you're looking for. It was priced similarily and is much bigger but it is not in this condition. Add another 2-3 million to get the Pfizer to look this good. Now you've got a huge difference in price. They just might get it.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:53 PM
You'll be lucky to get $500K for this place after AY is built.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:56 PM
The B69 is hardly an issue - it come once every half hour.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 4:58 PM
Not even THAT! We should just burn Brooklyn down down down. The whole world is going to hell. Wall Street is screwed. All the Presidential candidates are a joke- again. Sixteen Frank Gehry buildings and a basketball stadiaum spells armegeddon. And we think nukes are a threat. The weather sucks and I have a headache and a backache and a my dog is so stubborn. Waste your money or don't. We're only here for 70 something years if we're lucky. Find someone to get dirty with today and don't stop until AY ends the world.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 5:06 PM
Dear 4:44pm, I believe most of the simple truisms of RE -- perhaps too simple for some of the brainy pundits on this site. i) What went up last, comes down first; ii) What went up highest, comes down furthest; iii) buy the worst house on the best block. Look, I bought a coop in the West Village in 1987 and enjoyed several years of negative equity in the early 1990s -- and that nabe has ALWAYS been fashionable. That said, the adjustment is unlikely to be more than 10-20%, except for properties like this that are just priced off the charts. Unless of course the entire economy goes south -- which right now we just don't know. FG/CH is a very beautiful area with many gorgeous houses. But values in the immediate area have risen too far too fast. And I'm really no doomsayer. I own a brownstone that has tripled in value in recent years. I would love it to stay that way but I also know it's just on paper until/unless I sell.
Posted by: NeoGrec at August 23, 2007 5:33 PM
Furthermore, I live closer to the AY footprint than this building and while I hate the plan, think it'll be a huge pain in the ass while it's being constructed, and will certainly spoil some aspects of our quality of life, it also won't send property values down the toilet. That's just not how RE works in NYC.
Posted by: NeoGrec at August 23, 2007 5:37 PM
NeoGrec,
Yes, I have heard all those things as well and while they are sage advice I have seen so many things in Brooklyn happen to contradict that wisdom. Certainly there have been many purchases in the last ten years that boggle the mind that do not fit those principles. I think that worst blocks and best blocks shift so quickly here that it is hard to apply these rules. I would be more concerned about a house that has no architectural interest than a house like this. That said, I agree that prices are coming down and this is not the best time to buy- but this is not the most this house will ever be worth. Doesn't supply and demand apply? There are tons of two bedroom apartments and I understand why the prices may be very hard hit but isn't this something unique?
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 5:53 PM
This house is not new. It was a turn of the century carriage house to one of the homes that it backs one block over on Clinton. It's been completely gutted in what looks like a quality reno. Vanderbilt is a lovely street to live on. I can say that because i live there and so does Minsky I believe.
You're worried about a bus going by?? This is NY!!
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 5:55 PM
Wait -I thought that you thought prices were going down. Not by Atlantic Yards or not as a result of the project?
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 5:55 PM
for 3.5 million I want a main house to go along with the carriage house and at least twenty acres.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 6:09 PM
What is all this heartache about Atlantic Yards? AY is a group of new buildings that are going to be built on top of empty railyards. It is not a nuclear bomb. Some people on this blog really need to get a grip on reality, or move to the deep woods where they will never be frightened by a bus or a new skyscraper ever again.
Geesh!
What a bunch of snibbling reactionary pessimistic chicken shits.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 6:27 PM
6:27: hope you are correct, but at the very least, there is an odiousness to the project that invites fear.
My guess about AY is that it's impact will be fairly limited geographically.
But of course, the Park Slope Paper needs to build readership over something...
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 23, 2007 7:24 PM
The AY stuff was sarcastic- a joke
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 8:02 PM
The effects of the proposed AY project can be seen as either negative or positive depending on what you want for the future.
if you want central brooklyn to remain a back-water, appalachia-on-the-gowanus, sort of place, then it is bad. If you want central brooklyn to break into the 21st century and become a part of the First World, then it is good. If you are not comfortable with capitalism, growth, and aggressive development, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. May I suggest moving to Havana? Rangoon? Caracas? Buffalo?
What is most depressing is that I think a lot of these old farts are actually pretty young. How sad it must be to be young and so pessimistic about the future in the middle of the most optimistic, bustling, and ever changing city in the world.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 9:09 PM
WRONG!!!!
AY WILL probably turn downtown brooklyn into a 3rd world hell for at least until a) they finish construction, and b) they figure out how to deal with the extensive transit problems and impending sewage backup in the gowanus and consequently downtown. once these issues (which Bloomberg and everyone else who's green lighting this pot of gold for Ratner are choosing to ignore -- out of sight out of mind right?) are solved then brooklyn may shine again. i give it 15-20 years for all of these problems to be resolved. so if your new 3.4 million dollar home is an investment, plan on at least 20 yrs to make up your money.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 9:51 PM
Our Mr. Minsky is such a bore.
Posted by: guest at August 23, 2007 10:56 PM
LOL, LOL, and LOL. Who is this chap Minsky?
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 23, 2007 11:00 PM
A stadium the size of Madison Square Garden, more housing units than Battery Park City and several million square feet of retail space, all built in what's already one of the most congensted parks of the city, and built with my tax dollars to the betterment of a single developer.
Supporting a development of this size in that location is one thing, having our tax dollars pay for roughly 50% of it is entirely another. I oppose Atlantic Yards vehemently. I'd welcome appropriate development with open arm and with an appropriate amount of tax dollars. Unfortunately thanks to a lot of ignorance and political corruption that won't happen.
Posted by: Johnny at August 24, 2007 8:02 AM
Johnny, I oppose AY, too, and I agree that most politicians are stupid whores, but I just don't think AY is going to ruin that much of Brownstone Brooklyn.
One thing I would be curious about is getting some metrics about how the AY area was, population/usage-wise in, say 1930 or 1940. But anyway..
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 24, 2007 9:17 AM
The concerns that I would have (as a neighbour that lives around the corner) is the amount of graffiti that happens on Vanderbilt between Greene and Gates. Just take a walk (or ride) down it and you will see that it is covered with tagging. And $3.5 is way too much for a new construction of a carriage house.
Posted by: guest at August 24, 2007 2:23 PM
Although this is the very top of the market in terms of price. It also represents the largest (by a long shot) done home we have seen in this area. I am a broker, but don't work for the big C or have any particular good reason to bail Jerry out here. But I just think it would be nice to know what the houses on Carlton recently had their deals for. They are much smaller and much less done than this one. So on a price per square foot basis this one seems reasonable. Where this particular buyer is going to come from who knows? The AY dialogue on here is just a snooze. I hate AY more than the lot of you all combined. But it's not a relevant concern at this point in terms of housing prices. But it is so worth debating on all other points.
Posted by: guest at August 24, 2007 8:44 PM
What is the reluctance of people to create "non-guest" ids on this site?!
Posted by: BrooklynCouch at August 25, 2007 5:09 PM
I don't like this house b/c I can't afford it.
Posted by: guest at August 26, 2007 8:05 AM
If we had to say who we were we could not be nearly as nasty and all our competitors would know we are making fun of their properties.
Posted by: guest at August 26, 2007 8:07 AM
LOL, Minsky at his BS prices again. Will he enlighten us with his 20 years of RE experience again? How about telling us how great his father is? Or is he going to say "when people don't buy, I buy".... We can write a book about his ridiculous ego and how he made a complete fool out of himself at our closing. LOL@Minsky.
Posted by: guest at August 27, 2007 2:27 PM
Still on the market nearly 3 months later. Has the Minsky magic faded?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 2:28 PM
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