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August 6, 2007

House of the Day: 45 St. Pauls Place

Here's a killer FSBO house at 45 St. Pauls Place (a street that has the distinction of never having been mentioned on Brownstoner). The turn-of-the-century limestone is dripping in architectural details. Dripping. It's also part of a group of similar houses which together present a pretty impressive face. The house—which is described as being a one-family with an in-law apartment—is asking $1,389,000. As stunning as the house is, a couple of questions come to mind: 1) Why no photos of kitchens or bathrooms?; 2) Isn't it a stretch to describe this neighborhood as Prospect Park South? Granted, this isn't our back yard, but we thought PPS didn't start until Caton Avenue.
45. St. Pauls Place [FSBO] GMAP P*Shark

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Comments

I think the owner is trying to get away from the PLG nabe b/c of all the crime there. for $1.4 shit, I don't know if I'd want to live around the corner from a crack den.
http://163ocean.blogspot.com/2007/07/break-in-please-read.html
it is really beautiful but no schools for your kids (most have to travel to sub par schools out of the hood) and you're not walking your dog alone at night. Let the PLUS people and bloggers of PLG tell you what you want to hear but we moved after getting mugged at gun point TWICE.

Posted by: kensington gal at August 6, 2007 1:55 PM

Okay, this is 3 blocks from us, and I am STUNNED that anything on St. Paul's managed to stay that gorgeous inside because, sadly, the missing piece here is...a very very dodgy "microenvironment" in the blocks immediately east of the Parade Grounds and north of the Church Ave. B/Q train station. It's sad, but there are pockets of real scary down-at-heel areas around there (along with a big new apt. building going up on Caton. Still, Prospect Park South it AIN'T. It is, rather, part of, or right near, the police "Impact Zone." In other words, CRIME. The buyer should be prepared for a few more rough years before the rising tide lifts all boats.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at August 6, 2007 1:58 PM

Wow! Just ... wow! I was about to ask who can tell us what the nabe is like, but kensington gal beat me to the punch. Doesn't sound good, to say the least.

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2007 1:59 PM

The man who recently carjacked a man and then led police on a high-speed chase through Crown Heights, only to die in a gunfight near the Albany Houses, lived on this street. I agree with the above posts. Nice building, dangerous neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 2:13 PM

there is a dark side and light side to the park. and this is the dark side.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 2:21 PM

General rule of thumb, should buyers steer clear of houses/neighborhoods where there are iron bars in the first floor windows?

Posted by: Sarah at August 6, 2007 2:22 PM

sarah that is used to be true. alot of old homes in park slope and bococa still have bars. cause it used to be in a bad area.

it really depends on the persons income level in the area.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 2:26 PM

Kensington girl, isn't this YOUR neighborhood? This is not PLG which ends at Parkside. Stop trying to push your problems on to my 'hood.

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 2:27 PM

This area near the parade grounds is NOT in PLG, and nowhere near the Lefferts Manor area of PLG. We know Kensington Gal that you are trying to boost the values in your Kensington neighborhood located so far away, with completely inadequate subway service but at least give accurate information.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 2:32 PM

"there is a dark side and light side to the park.and this is the dark side."
This is the reason why this website is shit.
Punks can hide behind their keyboard and spew shit like this.
If you feel unsafe, don't move in the fucking hood.
take you ass somewhere else.
/Rant off

Posted by: The What at August 6, 2007 2:46 PM

hey The What, and all the rest of you who say this site is shit, i have a question:

why do you keep reading?

if you don't like it just go away. or is hating part of the fun?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 2:49 PM

dark as in bad. the traditional western colors of good vs bad.

light is always seen as good.

one side is cheaper and other side cost more. if the other side becomes safer i'm sure it would be better priced.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 2:53 PM

From the pics it seems as though white people already live there so what's the problem?

Posted by: Maria at August 6, 2007 2:53 PM

"Punks can hide behind their keyboard and spew shit like this." The What: let me introduce you to a concept known as irony. Maybe you should use your real name, and even through in your address and phone number, for every future post.

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 3:03 PM

those white folks probably want to off load it cause of the dangerous area.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 3:04 PM

1.4 might be a stretch, but it definitely doesn't warrant all the bile you guys want to spew.
it's a beautiful house, a block from the park.
wait till they turn Caledonian Hospital into $1M condos.
this will look like a great deal.

Posted by: tripster at August 6, 2007 3:05 PM

Actually, on Property Shark, the owner's name is Chinese.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:11 PM

the white dude in the photo must be the asian lady's bf or hubby.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 3:16 PM

Screw that I live in Kensington and am black and could not wait to get away from Flatbush (over 15yrs there)..I don't give a shit what anyone says there are serious issues in that neck of the woods..crime, crowds, noise. anytime someone bring up a real issue it has to be racist the hood is f'd up.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:23 PM

"Armchair Warrior" gave himself the perfect name. He is an angry little man always picking a fight, has no life and no friends and watches life pass him by from his chair.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:25 PM

I assume b/c the plg bloggers posted info on the caledonian hospital that PLG started to the west of the parade grounds... regardless, you can say what you want but the stats don't lie or that link I posted earlier. This neighborhood is full of section 8 and Kensington starts west of Coney Island Ave. The biggest issue we got is car break ins on occasion. But 2.32 the F train isn't as bad as people think although I would LOVE it if it went express!

Posted by: kensington gal at August 6, 2007 3:32 PM

me pick fights? not even close.

anyway those who read enough blogs and forums know who i am. i dont pick fights at all. i just like to post in them. give me point of view to things.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 3:32 PM

i meant to give my point of views on things.

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 3:33 PM

100 years ago, St. Paul's was considered to be one of the most beautiful blocks in Flatbush. There were several lavish Victorian frame homes on the block then, as well.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:35 PM

To continue my above post -

Although it was singled out as one of the most beautiful blocks in Flatbush, it was never considered to be part of PPS, which was a planned development bordered by Church Avenue, Buckingham, Beveley, and Coney Island Avenue. It is inaccurate historically and architecturally to lump this house, gorgeous as it is, with PPS.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:37 PM

So what neighbourhood is this really?

Posted by: Maria at August 6, 2007 3:46 PM

Flatbush.

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 3:50 PM

Wrong!!

Prospect Park South!

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dcp/html/neighbor/neighn.shtml

So all of yall could shut it!

Posted by: Maria at August 6, 2007 4:02 PM

maria owned!

Posted by: armchair_warrior at August 6, 2007 4:16 PM

The real news here is that it's a beautiful house in a dangerous neighborhood. Some people evidently don't like to hear that parts of our borough are dangerous, but it's the truth.

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2007 4:21 PM

2:13 - I hardly think the fact that someone who commits a crime lives on a certain block means that the neighborhood is automatically dangerous, unless the predisposition for crime is in the water there. Robert Chambers, the "Preppy Killer" lived on the Upper East Side, and Joel Steinberg, who killed his adoptive child, lived in the Village. I hardly think their neighbors' property values plummeted, or anyone thought their blocks were somehow responsible for their acts. This information seems to only be brought up when talking about living in the hood.

Absolutely beautiful house, and beautiful block. Maybe the presence of homeowners who want to work for positive change will have an effect. That said, the price does seem astronomical. That kind of money does assume a level of safety and convenience that may not be there at present, but I have a feeling it's nowhere as dangerous as the hype. With all due respect to kensington gal and her horrible experiences, some people may find the house, block and location warrant taking a chance for the future. Especially if the price is reduced.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at August 6, 2007 4:24 PM

Maria, if I had more time I'm sure I could find a map that contradicts yours. I live on Hawthorne b/t Nostrand & NY (so-called PLG)but everyone in my neighborhood calls it Flatbush, even people who lived here for at least 30 years. Flatbush is way down the map you've linked to. Maybe my neighbors mean East Flatbush?

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 4:27 PM

Maria is incorrect. Here is a map from Marykay Gallagher's site that actually shows the particular neighborhood boundaries thoughout the "Ditmas Park" area which she properly calls "Victorian Flatbush."

http://www.marykayg.com/html/large_map.html

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 4:38 PM

"hey The What, and all the rest of you who say this site is shit, i have a question:

why do you keep reading?

if you don't like it just go away. or is hating part of the fun?"
No Dumb-ass. I need to know whats going on"
Now I know what the 'light side is thinking'.
Now do me a favor, go back to your hole.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 4:39 PM

that is a dicey immediate area - house just too expensive for that location. i'd sooner spend $1.4 in lefferts historic section. beautiful place though and right near park, train and victy fbush. seems so strange that small area hasn't seen a policing effect from pps wealth influx.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 4:42 PM

""Punks can hide behind their keyboard and spew shit like this." The What: let me introduce you to a concept known as irony. Maybe you should use your real name, and even through in your address and phone number, for every future post."
I'm on Cambridge Pl between Gates & Fulton. email me
theoverlord@verizon.net and you can say that shit in me face. Holla at your boy bitch.
Whats kills me you hide behind your keyboard ans say all this bullshit. Now you can meet someone for the hood that will show you a good time!!!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 4:43 PM

This blog is getting worse and worse everyday.

Posted by: downhill at August 6, 2007 4:53 PM

Agreed, 4:53pm.

Posted by: way downhill at August 6, 2007 5:02 PM

it really is getting worse.

Posted by: anon in bklyn at August 6, 2007 5:05 PM

Sterling Silver:

The fact that someone committed a violent crime (carjacking) against *a stranger* does, in fact, make him more dangerous *to a stranger* than someone who commits domestic or acquaintance abuse.

Posted by: slopion at August 6, 2007 5:10 PM

The nearby street "Crooke Avenue" says it all. . .

Posted by: . at August 6, 2007 5:49 PM

sterling silver--I think you are right. I live in the immediate area and quite frankly there is a lot of sketchy activity around these parts. On the other hand, despite a large number of highly visible ne'er-do-wells, the neighborhood is overwhelmingly made up of families with children who go to work in the morning and come home at night and don't cause any trouble at all. I've lived here for 8 years and have not had one incident. Walked around at night by myself too. It is also been my personal experience that there has been a reduction of general streetcrime in the neighborhood--though that may be purely perception. As you get to know a place, it seems less dangerous. But its a fact that I have not heard one gunshot this summer or last summer and that was not the case when I first arrived. It is a beautiful house and I would love to buy it if I had the dough, but I still think it is overpriced for the neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 6:09 PM

I lived on Ocean right near here and this is definitely a pocket of sketchy. I hated parking my car on Woodruff or St. Paul's or Crooke because of all the broken glass and the dimly lit streets and the trash and the ferile cats.

But, the areas around this are changing, and it's near the park and the express train. My dad grew up on Crooke Ave and it was a nice area back in the 1940's. I'm sure it will be nice again. Some new condos going up around the corner. I definitely would consider this house if they knocked off a few hundred thou from asking price.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 6:39 PM

Ok here's my question... if you have $1.4 to spend why buy in a 'hood that you can't send your kid to school in? Just that simple! I know 2 people who own over in PLG became part of the big movement since they bought when thier places were still in the $600s and have to truck thier kids out of the hood for school. We may have a slower train then the Q but my kids have 2 very nice un-gifted options within walking distance. And last time I was on that side of the park (this morning on my way to Brooklyn M) I saw 2 guys totally drugged out! I'm sure it'll change but its like how long must you be a prisoner in a $1.4 mil house! I could see if the thing was under a mil but $1.4 to live in sketch-ville think I'd get a 2 or 3 bedroom further north and call it a day.

Posted by: kensington gal at August 6, 2007 6:49 PM

Crime may be down in the general vicinity because the area is an "impact zone" saturated with police. There's a reason that this area is an "impact zone". Most of the residences in the area are in apartment buildings,some which were quite luxurious until the 1960's.

Now way this is Prospect Park South, which is an historic neighborhood with Church Ave as the northern boundry and the subway tracks as the eastern boundry.

For half the asking price, though it may be tempting because of the detail.

Posted by: FLATBUSH RESIDENT at August 6, 2007 7:05 PM

"Ok here's my question... if you have $1.4 to spend why buy in a 'hood that you can't send your kid to school in?"

And here's an answer: not everyone has kids. I know - it's shocking, but it's true.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 7:11 PM

I never said that the presence of the man who committed the carjacking automatically meant that the neighborhood was bad. That conclusion was based on knowing people who live there and personal visits to to same. But please, Sterling Silver, continue making false assumptions and assailing us with your droning, PC lectures.

I repeat that this is a dangerous area, despite how beautiful the house is.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 7:26 PM

Kensington gal--

I'll tell you why people will spend the 1.4 even if the neighborhood doesn't have a school they'd want to send their kids too. Its because the house is beautiful and many people are savvy enough to navigate the public school system to find a school that will work for their kids. The thing that keeps me away from Kensington is that the buildings are ugly. Its just ugly over there and I don't like it.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 7:36 PM

prospect park south does traditionall starts on the other side of church avenue, not caton--- check out mary kay gallagher's website (marykayg.com) for a more specific map--- the PPS Association consists of houses from CIA to 16th/Buckingham Road, and Church Avenue to Beverly Road... the neighborhood bounded by Church and Caton avenues is "Caton Park", but i have only seen that on the above mentioned website... that having been said, many houses in PPS have gone for quite a bit more, but they are part of the association, and many are a bit further from the sketchiness... as a relatively young woman living in PPS, i dont really feel comfortable walking on certain blocks at night, and St. Paul's Place is one of them- it is definitely a block with potential, but 1.4M is waaaaaaaay too much--- for that much, you can get a beautifully restored victorian house in Ditmas Park (Beverly, Cortelyou and Newkirk Ave subway stops)-- houses are beautiful, and the recent high price is 1.9M-- but most are in the 900-1.2 range

Posted by: grew up in ditmas park at August 6, 2007 7:47 PM

I am part owner (absentee) of a house on Martense St. near Flatbush Ave. I am thinking of moving there. I don't know the neighborhood, only from visiting as a child. Can anyone fill me in on what it's like now?

Posted by: carol at August 6, 2007 8:07 PM

kensington gal,

If you had REALLY lived in PLG as you claimed at 1:55 PM, you'd probably know that this house is in another neighborhood and, since you most likely would have been able to find your way home, you'd be unlikely to "assume b/c the plg bloggers posted info on the caledonian hospital that PLG started to the west of the parade grounds."

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 6, 2007 8:12 PM

anon 4:27 PM,

PLG has always been part of Flatbush. The PLG name itself was only made up in 1968. I have lots of neighbors who say they live in Flatbush.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 6, 2007 8:20 PM

Sarah,

Regarding your questionm "should buyers steer clear of houses/neighborhoods where there are iron bars in the first floor windows?" Keep in mind that MOST brownstones were built that way.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:29 PM

Whoops--8:29 was me.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 6, 2007 8:33 PM

hey sterling silver! glad to see you back ... and as usual, with good common sense to share! :)

Posted by: bren at August 6, 2007 9:17 PM

I can remember back in the 60's when
I had a great apartment on woodruff avenue right by the parade grounds and
around the corner from the park... different times....great shopping close by, fun, safe neighborhood to live in and very affordable at that time.

Posted by: bren at August 6, 2007 9:24 PM

I think a more reasonable price would be in the 800-900,000 range,for all of the already mentioned above reasons. Price has everything to do with location. If this house with its exquisite details were on the upper east or west side of Manhattan it would easily go for 6 to 7 million if not more. If it were on Sutter avenue in Brownsville, it would not sell for more than 500,000. The seller must realize that a buyer will not spend 1.4 to be a pioneer. They must lower the price

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 10:06 PM

Bren: My mother worked for a Dr. @ 62 Rugby Road from the '60s to early '70s.. What a beautiful house! She would sometimes take me to work when there was no school, so from there I'd walk to my "odball", pigeon-feeding aunt on Ocean & Church, who took me to Prospect Park & the old church cemetery. I also remember "Deal Town"-that big discount store on Church Avenue. This was in the days long before fruit markets were boycotted there. . .

Posted by: ' at August 6, 2007 10:10 PM

I live in the area and recently walked down St. Paul's Place, right past these houses, a couple of weekends ago on my way to Prospect Park. My first thought was "wow, someday this block is going to be the one everyone talks about." The houses are beautiful. It was the middle of the afternoon and there was a block party on the corner and the neighborhood was alive with BBQ and music, etc. I'm white and stand out a bit, but everyone was friendly, smiled and some said "hello." And not in that creepy way. I understand that this whole area SE of the park is dicey and there is definite room for improvement. I'd guess that the vast majority of people who live there feel the same way. You know a few bad apples and all. Everyone has a story of a friend being mugged in almost every neighborhood in the city. (My ex-roommate in front of our 2 million dollar Fort Green duplex, for example.) I think it is less important what you call the area and more important to know what the actual "feel" is. I hope whoever buys it appreciates how truly gorgeous it is.

Posted by: Stratford Rd at August 6, 2007 10:12 PM

I looked into buying on Woodruff. The neighborhood is improving, but that only emphasizes how bad it used to be. It still has a long way to go.

For 1.4, there are a lot of better options out there. Not sure what is the right price, but it's way short of 1.4.

Posted by: slick at August 6, 2007 10:32 PM

Oh Bob! Are you mad that people are calling you and the PLUS group out on the fact that you are trying to displace lots and lots of people from PLG w gentrification... didn't we all hear? PLG is the NEXT 'it' neighborhood! It'll take awhile but soon (10 to 15 years when all the landlords start tossing out the section 8 for higher rents) it'll be just as vanilla as you want it to be.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 12:06 AM

12:06,

If that [displacement]were my goal, I sure haven't accomplished much in the 1/3rd of a century I've lived here :-)

Nice try though.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 7, 2007 12:22 AM

Thanks, bren. Just me - droning on in my usual, falsely assuming, PC lectures.

Stratford Road, thanks for another voice of sanity, and Bob - haven't heard from you in a while either!

What does it matter what neighborhood this house is in? Sooner, rather than later, it's going to be one of those signature, much photographed groups of houses used to tout the entire nabe. They certainly are beautiful. If only it was cheaper, as the area has not caught up to the house, much like other beautiful parts of Bed Stuy and Crown Heights. That is not a dis on the neighborhood, just reality. If I could afford to put my money where my mouth is, I would have no problem buying here.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at August 7, 2007 1:26 AM

Neighborhood matters Sterling Silver because that's how homes are appraised, by neighborhood comps. As previous post states, if this home were in Manhattan it would go for millions. Real Estate is location. One day this block of homes may command that kinf of asking price or maybe even more. But not yet.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 2:19 AM

"Most" brownstones were built with bars on the lower windows? Doubtful.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 8:58 AM

Yes, this neighborhood still has some improving to do. But, the key question is does this location have upside potential - and the answer is yes. I own and live in a beauty in Park Slope and my brother lives around the corner from this property on Ocean Ave and we often drive by St Paul's saying we'd buy one of these in a heartbeat. But 1.4mm is currently overpriced - I say if the owner is serious about selling - this baby sells way under asking for about $1mm in a heartbeat. Didn't Law & Order film on this street in one of these houses regularly?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 9:00 AM

Regarding bars on windows...

I live in Cobble Hill, used to live in Brooklyn Heights.

To my eye, nearly all homes here have bars on the ground floor windows.

Same goes for Park Slope. Boerum Hill. Prospect Heights. Fort Greene.

Some ghettos these must be, with all the bars on the lower windows.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 9:14 AM

8:58 AM,

Are you writing from Podunk?

Have you ever actually SEEN a traditional high stoop brownstone? If the lower floor window bars aren't there, they've been removed by someone, possibly to install a window AC. Such removal would be a no no in any Historic District.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 7, 2007 9:14 AM

The question was whether "most" brownstones were "built" with window bars as an original feature in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Let's not confuse original ornamental ironwork with window and door bars added later for security.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 9:45 AM

Exactly.

Most brownstones in the NYC metropolitan area were BUILT with bars on the ground floor as an original feature. In some cases these have been removed and, sometimes, replaced with new ironwork. Sometimes bars have been added to other floors. IMO these look terrible, but that wasn't the question.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 7, 2007 9:56 AM

Kensington houses are really small. And on top of it most are 2-family with one apartment on each of two floors, not an owner's duplex plus rental, like the brownstone neighborhoods. For those who can afford it, they don't mind buying a large, gorgeous house in a neighborhood where they have to "truck" as Kensington Girl calls it, their kids to private schools. By the way, would you turn your nose up at a house in Manhattan? Because those people "truck" their kids to private schools too. Many people PREFER a private school regardless of where they live, because no matter how good a public school in an area might be, a private school is better. Sorry, it's the truth. My husband says he would never have got into Princeton if he hadn't attended private school. He thinks he would have been lost in the shuffle and not participated as actively in school, if he had been at public schools. And this isn't NYC, this was in the suburbs so the public schools were really good where he was. I know these comments will start a debate, but I just wanted to mention this other way to think about it. It isn't always all about the public schools, despite what realtors say.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 10:21 AM

Almost all row houses in New York City were built with bars on the ground floor. Beautiful, sculpted, ornamental wrought iron bars, which the Victorians/Edwardians did magnificently, are still bars, designed for security. Do you think homeowners in the late 1800's didn't have security issues, too? Crime wasn't invented in the 1970's, and if anything, was probably more of a concern then, than now. Poverty was much more desperate, and there were no social services in place to provide any kind of safety net. Look at the remaining mansions of the rich in Manhattan, such as the JP Morgan mansion. Original bars on the ground floor and cellar windows.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at August 7, 2007 10:37 AM

10:21--I have to largely agree with your post. We moved to Clinton Hill without any regard for the school situation because we figured we'd do private school regardless. (Or move before our infant started school.) We considered Park Slope because of the reputation of the schools but, frankly, had heard a lot about how incredibly crowded they are (from friends with kids there), even though very good quality. So I think like a lot of people, the public school issue didn't figure in really at all to our buying decision.

Posted by: Anon at August 7, 2007 11:08 AM

Also by the time your child is done with K-5 public school, you'd have to put him/her in private school anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 2:48 PM

The bars on our English basement windows are absolutely original to our house. They are firmly installed inside the limestone surrounding the windows. We don't have bars on our parlor floor windows either in front or back. And when we lived on a prime Park Slope block, our co-op building had bars on all the basement and first floor windows. So it says nothing about crime or the neighborhood, to have bars. Look at L.A., they all have ornate spanish style bars on the windows in 1920's houses even in good neighborhoods. I just think it wasn't very common to have alarm systems in homes until fairly recently, even in wealthy homes.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 3:33 PM

What a lovely house. But a lovely home?
What troubles me about the above is the lack of respect for the traditional concept of home which was never meant to be a place to hide from the world until you could double your investment and move elsewhere ... but a place to settle in, integrate with your neighborhood, and feel comfortable with your family and community social life. Those of you who aren't raising or haven't raised kids shouldn't even venture to talk seriously about the safety and comfort issues in this area (not actually PPS or Caton Park, but rather "Flatbush Ave. Corridor" which contains many a lovely Victorian house). The number of risks I've taken in my wayward New York life, in terms of working, living and playing has furiously diminished like a detumescent phallus compared to the miniscule risks I'm willing to endure when it comes to my wife and small children. An ideal "home" would be one where you feel not only wonderful about your successes and adaptations within your own four (or more) walls, as represented by the loveliness of the inside and outside of your house, but where you feel wonderful about your neighbors, and their successes and adaptations, interacting with them and the overall community in a fruitful and rewarding fashion. I'm sure in this neighborhood you could find many cohorts that fit the above description to qualify this house as a home, no doubt! There are good people everywhere. But if my wife can't stroll my kids on the block, without worrying what they see and hear, much less what sudden dramatic threat might strike them, then where, I ask, is the sense of HOME?
By the way, such social concerns affect all social strata top to bottom as so many posters have pointed out. There is always farther to fall and higher to climb. Families from the Upper East Side of Manhattan do angst over whether or not to send their kids to the public schools in their "home" neighborhood.
But on a been-there note, we've looked at a home in this area of Flatbush, two blocks down on 17th, other side of Caton (truly Caton Park) and RAN from the neighborhood. And that was on a bright lovely Saturday morning. Those who would concoct an identity based upon the grand appearance of a house, standing in a dangerous neighborhood with a highly apparent hostile influence, are baited by an ego hook that is incomprehensible to me as a parent and husband. What could this house have that could possibly make it worthwhile, at any price, at this time, for someone (with a family) looking for a real home? Yes, the many good neighbors, agreed! Good neighbors unable, nonetheless, to alter the residual flavor of the home neighborhood.
I wish the entrepreneurs, with or without families, however, happy hunting!

Posted by: Family Man at August 7, 2007 5:31 PM

Now listed at $1,250,000

Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 2:38 PM

I lived on St. Pauls place down the block, right across Caledonian HOspital-apartment buidling though, not a rich brownstone. There a zillion yrs ago: from 1960-1978. We finally had to leave because it was too dangerous- had been for a while. But I thought the area had changed and was good again - with my old apt. buildign turned into housing for folk from caledonian. perhaps that was all false. Sorry to hear it's still a crime risk after all this time.I'm still waiting to come home.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:29 PM

« Condo of the Day: Greene House 2 Bedroom Monday Blogwrap »

August 6, 2007

House of the Day: 45 St. Pauls Place

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