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August 31, 2007

Hey Corcoran, Won’t You Be Our Neighbor?

prospectleffertsgardenscorc.jpg
The Prospect Lefferts Gardens blog Across the Park is inviting the city’s powerhouse brokerages to set up shop in the neighborhood. A recent post notes that though name-brand brokerages sell properties in the area, none of them has a storefront:

Almost every time there's a big listing (sometimes a small listing) in PLG, it's offered by a larger, highly recognizable firm. In addition, we hypothesize that sooner or later, the big guys will want to expand into Crown Heights South and Wingate. Wouldn't PLG make a stellar location to grow from? … We would also like to see one of the big firms locate in PLG because we think it would contribute remarkably to our commercial landscape and accelerate the addition of amenities - nothing fancy, we're talking ATMs and some better stocked shops on Flatbush.

It’s an interesting question: Do big-time real estate offices beget gentrification, or is it the other way ’round?
Big Firms: Come on Down [Across the Park]




Posted by Gabby at 10:05 AM | Comments (52)
Categories: Prospect Lefferts Gardens

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Comments

What a joke. These PLG crybabies always want what they can't have. Pathetic.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 10:10 AM

Brown Harris Stevens has way more listings in PLG than Corcoran. And it's BHS whose window on the corner of Union and 7th Ave is dedicated to PLG, as referenced by someone on the Across the Park thread. More importantly, the people the big realty firms are marketing PLG houses to, aren't those already living in PLG it's those who own a coop in Park Slope but can't afford a house in Park Slope. I don't think ATP's reasoning is very sound on this one.

Posted by: traditionalmod at August 31, 2007 10:15 AM

I dont want corcoran in Crown Heights. They will inflate prices futher and make homes inaccessible to the middle class. They really wouldnt serve the hood well.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 10:17 AM

10:10, now now, the name calling is really going to upset Bob Marvin and you can be SURE he will have something to say on this matter, although, he has been eerily quiet on the cop killaz in his hood.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 10:19 AM

Oh look, it's talking to itself again. (10:10 and 10:19)

Posted by: traditionalmod at August 31, 2007 10:23 AM

Seems to me there are a lot of businesses that would have more impact on the hood than a realty office--like, say, a bookstore, cafe, head shop, etc.

Posted by: Rehab at August 31, 2007 10:30 AM

I pretty much agree with "traditionalmod" (BOTH posts, although I'll confine my comments to the first one), Turnover on PLG houses is low (as is the supply) and I doubt that there is enough business for a big firm to have an office here. OTOH I'd like to see more of the existing local RE offices (like the one mentioned in the ATP Post) list houses and apartments in the neighborhood.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 31, 2007 10:35 AM

Besides, there probably aren't many brokers who're prepared to take a bullet in order to sell some shoddy condo in PLG.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 10:44 AM

BM, what a cop out - no pun intended. A PLG posting - it's been a while - and your ego is so big that you can't help but respond. Anyway, your neighborhood still sucks and the lack of any quality businesses is a testament to that fact.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 10:44 AM

Well, that's really uesless, anonymous Guest Douche 10:44. How's tricks in Louisville?

Bob, I always appreciate your posts. I believe it was you who recommended Fireside for relining and converting fireplaces to wood-- I had them out for an estimate and am thinking of going with them. Just need to do a little more Better Business Bureau type checking, due diligence, etc. So thanks.

Posted by: Rehab at August 31, 2007 11:03 AM

To the other guest, would you like to describe what other hoods you think suck?

A lot of neighborhoods share the characteristics you abhore about PLG, yet you only appear on this blog and others to hate on PLG. Please follow up with vitriolic comments about CH, BS and other nabes going through growth periods and/or have similar flaws.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 11:36 AM

I think the ATP is making a mistake here. Sure, the big realtors bring their monied clients into the nabe, but then what? For the most part, their realtors don't live in that neighborhood, know little about the neighborhood, and care little beyond selling a property and getting their commission, which is taken out of the neighborhood, as well.

ATP would be better served in perhaps gathering all of the local brokers together, and trying to figure out a strategy for bringing not only money into the neighborhood by way of wealthier homeowners, but working on ways to keep that money in the area. Local brokers live and work in the area, and know the area well. Some of them may not be as tech and internet savvy as the larger firms, and perhaps ATP could sponsor some kind of seminar to help them reach today's market. Finally, they could all work on getting more varied commercial ventures into the area, especially on Flatbush.

It would benefit everyone to do this. They don't need Corcoran or any of the others to ride in and save the neighborhood. That smacks of elitism, and not so subtle racism. The means of improving PLG (and any neighborhood) lies in the community already.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 11:40 AM

BM only shows up for the PLG love-fests, it's only fair to have some balance when discussing PLG, specifically. No businesses, no good schools, relatively high crime and, IMHO, relatively over-priced real estate. I'm tired of the "proximity to the Park" argument carrying this grossly under-developed hood.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 11:45 AM

Like anyone else on this site, Bob is free to comment on whatever he likes, whenever he likes. He is justifiably proud of his home and community, and could probably care less what some anonymous troll who's been plaguing this site for years now, thinks about either him or PLG.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 12:04 PM

In answer to the question of whether or not big time firms beget gentrification or the other way around, I would have to say it's the other way round. At least initially.

You couldn't have paid any of the big firms to list anything in Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, PLG, up until about 5 years ago. Less than 2 years ago, the Corcoran office in the Heights was being investigated for steering Caucasian clients away from Bed Stuy, along with other shady discriminatory practices.

Gentrification = big realtors is more of a circular symbiotic relationship now, but in the beginning, and still to a great degree, I see the large firms as poachers and colonializers, coming in and taking the best listings, making their money, and leaving. Why doesn't one of them sponsor seminars on predatory lending, or economic empowerment, or put pressure on local pols or police precincts for better services? Form a BID and use their vast contacts to attract businesses to the area?

There is more to a viable neighborhood than just the real estate values of houses. If Corcoran, or any of the other white glove firms wants to move into PLG, CH, BS, they need to realize that, and work with the neighborhoods to become agents of change, not just real estate agents.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 12:20 PM

I can't believe that it has been suggested that inviting a major RE firm to PLG "smacks of not so subtle racism"

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 12:21 PM

So i'm considered a troll b/c I don't kiss BM's ass and tout PLG? Nonsense. I have an opinion and I am expressing it. PLG had its chance - that day has come and gone - the market has spoken - no hipsters or Slope familes rescued it. Gowanus will be the envy of PLG in 10 years. Gowanus is developing as only PLG could hope - high end commercial development, high end residential development, highly desirable hoods on its borders - and proxmity to the Park.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 12:27 PM

Does PLG have a home grown power house? Like Mary Kay over here in Victorian Flatbush. Just curious.

Posted by: Erin Joslyn at August 31, 2007 12:30 PM

To hell with PLG. It's what I call a "third world neighborhood" and it shouldn't even be on the radar of any serious real estate blog.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 12:33 PM

Oh please, 12:21. Look around. Corcoran, for example, pitches 98% of their print ads to wealthy, young (beautiful) white, would-be clients. You'd have to be blind to miss their giant billboards, as well as print ads in the Times. "Live who you are" has yet to show a black nuclear family, or a Latin couple, or try to reach anyone of any demographic other than rich white folks. And that's fine - that's their market, and obviously they are doing something right, or they wouldn't be where they are.

But to think that they are going to go out of their way to reach those other customers, other demographics, JUST because they are now in PLG, BS or CH, all predominantly minority neighborhoods, is absurd. All of these firms now have minority brokers, but all of them seem to only have listings in these minority neighborhoods. Why not in Park Slope, or the Upper East Side?

Maybe subtle racism is too strong a term, but if people expect Corcoran to save the day, they want those people in those ads to move in. I take exception to the implied suggestion that only rich white people can save us, or make our neighborhoods better. It takes concerned people of every description and economic level to make a great neighborhood.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 12:42 PM

The only thing that'll make PLG a better place is a crack team of police snipers.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 12:57 PM

Of course there's a PLG troll. For those who read this site regularly, you know that Brownstoner DID absolutely confirm after looking back through several threads about PLG on which these negative comments appear, that the comments are coming from the same source every time.

Posted by: traditionalmod at August 31, 2007 1:05 PM

That's not true. If that were the case Mr. B could simply ban his ip address.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 1:09 PM

Which only reinforces my position that there should be no more "guest" posters. Guest posters are much more likely to make comments like the following:

"What a joke. These PLG crybabies always want what they can't have. Pathetic."

or

"Besides, there probably aren't many brokers who're prepared to take a bullet in order to sell some shoddy condo in PLG."

or

"No two ways about it. PLG sucks ass."

or

"The only thing that'll make PLG a better place is a crack team of police snipers."

Make people sign up if they want to post Brownstoner. It will lead to a much more constructive and civil discourse.

Posted by: kuroko at August 31, 2007 1:18 PM

Kuroko, I would bet all of your examples are from the same address, and that blocking this person's IP address hasn't worked in the past, and won't work now. In fact, they probably posted that one too.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 1:23 PM

Kuroko, past experience shows that you're wrong. Go back and look at previous threads.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 1:24 PM

If you block someone's IP address, there's no way for that person to unblock the address without...well, without walking into Brownstoner headquarters, sitting down at a computer and unblocking it. Unless of course the troll is psychic.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 1:26 PM

This thread started out with the question:

"Do big-time real estate offices beget gentrification, or is it the other way ’round?"

What's the answer? I think it is the other way 'round. Young people colonize on the fringes where they can afford to live. A funny thing happens along the way to adulthood though. It's start becoming more important to have amenities around you and you become more able to afford them. That's where capitalism is great; recognizing and taking advantage of new opportunities. PLG and LG and every other funky neighborhood will get their Corcoran offices the minute the market demands it.

As for the trolls...I'd make them register but it's not my blog.

Posted by: kuroko at August 31, 2007 1:37 PM

Brownstoner attempted to require registration in the past. The number of daily comments plummeted and the board became a clique comprised of 6-7 people. So don't expect registration to become the norm anytime soon.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 2:23 PM

Montrose Morris,

You wrote:

"Sure, the big realtors bring their monied clients into the nabe, but then what? For the most part, their realtors don't live in that neighborhood, know little about the neighborhood, and care little beyond selling a property and getting their commission, which is taken out of the neighborhood, as well".

This sounds logical, BUT FWIW some of PLG's biggest RE boosters are brokers who work for BHS and Corcoran who live in our neighborhood and, as far as I can see, are very much concerned with the neighborhood's well being over and above their own economic interests--I guess you'd call it enlightened self interest.

Erin,

No one comparable to MKG (who FWIW lived in Lefferts Manor years ago) The closest, I suppose, was Shirley Juergensen in the 70s and 80s, through whom we [sort of] bought our house, but she eventually gave up her own business and worked for Wm. B. May, BHS's predecessor.

To everyone else,

Don't you LOVE the new gray type that's so easy to ignore? :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 31, 2007 2:24 PM

Since that isn't the real Brower Park, at 1:30, and I aught to know, it goes to show that anyone can get by registration, etc. As I have said before, you only need to click on the name to see past posts. The real Brower Park comments on neighborhood issues. The fake one comments on his authenticity. The real Brower Park (me) is thinking about retiring the name, as I retired CHP, because it just ain't worth the trouble.

People write in that everyone should have a handle, and I agree, I don't like to post anonymously, as it's too hard to keep track of "voices" in a conversation. However, if you have someone who just doesn't like you, as I have had for about 2 years, they can make your posting life crazy. As someone said recently, "Who gives a f@*k if someone steals your id?" I can only respond that I do, but I'm moving on. Done here.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 2:31 PM

Bob, you would know, so I stand corrected, as far as individual agents go. I am still cynical enough to think that the larger corporate entity doesn't care past the bottom line. I want to live in a great community. If a large corporate entity has a stake in that community, and works to its improvement FOR EVERYONE, that is how big business should act. That is much more important that being right about everything, and I have no problem saying otherwise.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 2:41 PM

The poster at 2:31 is obviously such phoney baloney. What an idiot.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 2:51 PM

Go fuck yourself Montrose Morris.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 2:52 PM

Montrose Park,

In general, I share your cynicism, but there are (thankfully) exceptions.

Come to think of it, PLG is full of exceptions. Where else would restrictive covenants, generally denegrated as a tool of racism, have, in the form of the Lefferts Manor single family covenant, helped foster one of Brooklyn's most successfully integrated communities?

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 31, 2007 2:58 PM

I would definitely require registration for the site. There's just too much static otherwise.

Posted by: White and Proud in PLG at August 31, 2007 2:58 PM

This used to be a great site to get information on, and even engage in healthy debate on whatever issues. Now, you can't state an opinion without someone calling you names or telling you to fuck off. Are you people so bitter, or so bored that you think you are witty, funny, or intelligent? You bring down the whole site, and turn most people off, and drive people away. I can think of many names I don't see here anymore, and I would bet that this "new" attitude of so called hip dismissiveness, and general rudeness has a great deal to do with it. Good going.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2007 3:00 PM

Montrose Morris,

Sorry I got your last name wrong--senior moment, I guess.

Oh, and please don't let the GRAY comments get to you! --Although I actually AGREE with the 3:02 PM one, allbeit not for the reason intended by our "friend" :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 31, 2007 3:12 PM

Not to imply that ALL the gray comments have something wrong with them--SOME of the guests REALLY ARE guests.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 31, 2007 3:18 PM

Everyone, please just disregard the crybabies. They used to rule this site and shut down anyone who disagreed with them. Then The Brownstoner Troll came along and solved that little problem. Now the PLG crybabies just whine incessantly, but that's really all there is to it. They shouldn't impede the progress of this great site, so keep on keepin' on!!!

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 3:20 PM

I agree with Brower Park. There's no reason to attribute all these posts to a troll.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 3:21 PM

Montrose, don't give up the ship over a couple of cockroaches (not a bad metaphor for folks who live in this town, no?)

Posted by: Rehab at August 31, 2007 3:29 PM

i agree with 3:02. this site would be completely pointless without the senseless banter. keep it up fellow guests!!!

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 3:35 PM

It sounds like Montrose should just talk quietly to himself, since he only seems to talk for the pleasure of listening to himself. Leave the blogs to serious folk.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 3:36 PM

And by the way, kudos to Mr. B for deleting the link to the ATP blog.

Way to go Jon!!

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 4:03 PM

The word "nabe" makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Posted by: McFin at August 31, 2007 4:27 PM

just a quick rundown of all the neighborhoods and their perceived advantages in no particular order:

Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Park Slope
+'s
Beautiful housing stock
Services
Schools

-'s
Price


Lefferts Gardens:
Park proximity
Subway service

-'s
Services
Safety
Schools

Prospect Heights
+'s
housing stock
Services

-'s
Price

Clinton Hill
+'s
Housing stock

-'s
Price
Security (thanks to the methadone clinic)

Bed Sty
+'s
Housing stock

-'s
Schools
Housing stock
Security

Bay Ridge
+'s
Services
Schools

-'s
Distance to city
Subways

Gowanus
+'s
Location

-'s
toxic waste
security

Red Hook
+
Services

-'s
Proximity to city
Housing stock

Feel free to add your own neighborhoods.

Posted by: slick at August 31, 2007 6:05 PM

Thanks, Slick. Nice summary.

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 6:16 PM

That summary is a joke. So much was left out I can only imagine on purpose by a PLG booster. I don't see anything wrong with you talking up your neighborhood, but why do you guys always seem to have to do it at other neighborhood's expense?

Posted by: guest at August 31, 2007 6:44 PM

I actually think that the neighborhood summary is pretty accurate. It doesn't rank one neighborhood above another; they all have pros and cons (no double meaning "con" jokes needed from the scary neighborhood crew). I'd put Carroll Gardens in the Heights/Cobble Hill camp, although the train service is a bit worse. And Red Hook services are not that great right now except for Fairway and a cluster of local shops on Van Brunt, mostly food-oriented. And I am anti-registering, although I would prefer a bit of moderation: like I think a post that says "fuck you" with no additional commentary could be taken down. (BEAT) I'm waiting for the inevitable "fuck you" post to follow mine!

Posted by: Carol Gardens at September 3, 2007 10:56 AM

SWFRE (Still Waiting for Registration Email) Actually, I'm positive that Corcoran had at least an "affluent" black model family in a print ad, and I kind of think a mixed part Asian couple. The ads are awful and tasteless, yes, but not strictly white.

Posted by: guest at September 3, 2007 1:20 PM

Corcoran was sited by HUD for discriminatory practices. Why would you invite a firm such a reputation?

Posted by: guest at September 3, 2007 6:39 PM

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