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July 17, 2007
Local Pols Targeting Sanitation Dept's Cash Cow
Of all the irritants that come with being a homeowner in Brooklyn, gratuitous tickets from the sanitation police may top the list. The current law holds property owners liable for the smallest candy wrapper (or soda can, like the one above that greeted us on our return from the airport yesterday) that any passerby decides to drop on the sidewalk — and even up to 18 inches off the curb. Right now, the garbage police can write tickets (for anywhere from $50 to $250) for infractions between 8 and 9 in the morning and noon and one o'clock in the afternoon. (As you may recall, our respect for these civil servants was forever tarnished by an incident we had in Williamsburg a few years ago.) Given what a cash cow this policy is for the sanitation department, there has been great resistance to change. But now there are two bills in front of the City Council that seek to take at least some of the sting out of enforcement. The first bill, from David Yassky, would require a written warning for a first offense; if a second infraction were noted within 30 days, a fine would be levied. A second bill, from Simcha Felder, would push the mid-day ticketing hour to after 5 p.m. (but not include the first-offense warning). We thought it'd be interesting to see which of these options sounded more appealing, so please take a second to answer the poll below. Additionally, if you would like to show support for the first option, Yassky's office has set up an online petition that's pretty painless to fill out.
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Comments
About time!
Posted by: Anon at July 17, 2007 9:23 AM
does anyone know how easy it is to get a garbage can placed on their corner, or has anyone placed one themselves and emptied it?
i'm constantly cleaning up my block, and it never ends.
Posted by: anon at July 17, 2007 9:26 AM
Am I understanding this correctly? I go into work at 8AM and am home around 6pm. Does that mean if someone drops a soda can in front of my house at 9:30AM, they can give me a ticket?
How the heck am I suppose to avoid this? Hire someone to sit on my stoop and pick up any garbage a passerby happens to leave?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 9:39 AM
What about using some of the money from fines for education? Education beyond the 'keep NYC clean' and 'don't litter' signs. It seems like anyone who grew up in NYC has absolutely no problem with littering and act like it's a perfectly fine and natural thing to throw any type of garbage on the street.
Remember the crying Indian? As a kid, that had a HUGE effect on me, and I NEVER litter.
Also, it's strange that you can get fined for a can in front of your stoop, when the building down the street from me can PILE bags of garbage on the sidewalk, making it barely passable, and I'm SURE they don't get fined at all.
Posted by: kim at July 17, 2007 9:41 AM
Bill De Blasio is using YOUR taxpayer's money to "sponsor" trashcans in his district. If you are lucky enough to live in his district, maybe you can ask him for a trashcan near you.
http://www.billdeblasio.com/contact.htm
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 9:53 AM
As far as I am concerned, any bill has to have a provision protecting homeowners from the extraordinary amount of street garbage generated by advertisers. What good is getting a warning notice from Sanitation in such a case or a post 5 ticket handout? The people on my block work very very hard to keep things tidy; we have one retired man who works for many of the owners who are not around all the time to take out garbage on assigned days and others are very meticulous about thier places. All in all people try very hard, but we are assaulted by blizzards of ad trash. We should be protected from this trash the way we are from unwanted telemarketing and mail advertisements. The American Marketing Association has a no call list and you can opt out of getting your mailbox stuffed with ads and catalogs as well. We think that while there is the occasional soda can or slushy the some inconsiderate passerby drops on the street, the majority of our tickets come from mother nature distributing the ad materials all over the street. One day, our block generated 1500 dollars for the city, which was a real hardship for people. And as you all know it is ongoing.
Posted by: donatella at July 17, 2007 9:56 AM
9:39,
That's the point--we're NOT supposed to avoid these tickets--just pay and pay and pay....
That's why Mr. B referred to it as a "cash cow' and why the present situation is such a disgrace. Of course the Mayor has lost of staff to pick up refuse in front of HIS house.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2007 9:59 AM
they need more enforcement on commercial streets, like 7th ave and PPW (south of 15th street), which have a lot of garbage flying around on the weekends. also, those city trashcans seem to cause more garbage on the streets, since they fill up and then the wind blows away the trash. the streets would be cleaner without them.
As for the occasional wrapper in front of people's houses, that seems like an exaggerated menace.. these bills seem like yet another way for the pols to get on the homeowner's good side, which sounds great during election time.
Finally, the trash situation in prospect park is terrible... the occasional worker walking around with a pick is not cutting it.
Posted by: OE at July 17, 2007 9:59 AM
Now that we're on the subject...how does one request a trash bin for an intersection? I'm talking specifically about Halsey and Throop -- very busy corner, and only one bin. 'Ain't right.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:01 AM
I can't say that around my area they ticket for this much. Once,years ago, I received one for construction garbage inside gate.
I wish they would enforce more. I see houses where they never ever seem to sweep or clean up,
garbage cans overflowing and uncovered, etc, etc. And I live in what I think is considered a 'good' area (Carroll Gardens/BoerumHill/CobbleHill).
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:05 AM
it would make sense to have the police give fines for littering but we know they are too busy doing nothing to help this quality of life issue.
Posted by: anon at July 17, 2007 10:08 AM
We got a ticket for having some scrap lumber in our enclosed front "yard" that was not bagged. Who knew it was against the law to have leftover building material on your own property (not the sidewalk). We're sure a neighbor snitched on us. Even more of a burn: stupid pet owners who get away with letting their pets crap on the sidewalk without cleaning up.
Posted by: North Sloper at July 17, 2007 10:12 AM
Another question along those lines: How do you cite buildings throwing their trash out on the side walk on unscheduled days for trash pick up making it barely passable and a haven for rats. I am talking about Clinton avenue between fulton street and atlantic ave.
ITS DISGUSTING!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:14 AM
I'm in favor of a bill to require the public reporting of the number of tickets issued and paid for littering, compared with the number of tickets issued and paid for being victimized by litter.
Posted by: WT Economist at July 17, 2007 10:14 AM
The basketball courts between Bergen and Dean and 6th Avenue are covered in litter. The gutters and drains on the street are filled with refuse. The hilarious thing is it is directly behind the police station. I can't believe the cops can't walk out behind their station and issue some tickets to people who litter. It's a public health issue if nothing else.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:16 AM
10.14am call 311 and see if they can at least log your complaint.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:18 AM
I like Yassky's proposal, but once it's in place, I'm all for strict enforcement. Yeah, it means picking up garbage that other people and advertisers have littered, and I'm all for policing them too, but it's still too bad: you buy the house, you buy the cleanup. BTW, I have yet to be ticketed once in 10 years of ownership.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:20 AM
This garbage policing seems uneven. I live in PH and parts of my neighborhood are filthy. During the past few weeks several branches of a tree came down during a thunderstorm and subsequently sat on the sidewalk for two weeks before being carted away.
I support educational efforts, but wonder how effective they'd be. Some NYers have no regard for cleanliness and actually seem to enjoy littering.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 10:22 AM
I have seen people of every age, race, gender and income group drop their candy wrappers, fast food containers, fruit peelings, and whatever else is in their hands, on the sidewalk, usually within sight of a wastecan.
It seems that no one was brought up right. In addition to some good ideas brought up here, maybe a tv campaign showing these things, played over and over, like any public service ad, would do some good. And also some kind of program initiative in schools, starting with the elementary kids. If you get the little kids to stop, hopefully as they get older, they won't become littering teens and adults.
I was always taught not to do in the street what I wouldn't do at home, when it came to disposing of trash. I was also just taught to have respect for other people's property, which is something very few people seem to have been taught, lately. Disgusting.
Posted by: Brower Park at July 17, 2007 10:44 AM
they seem to pick on hoods with more minorities, since they are least likely to fight back.
i showed up to "court" one day with a portable video player ( i have a security cam), ready to show the judge that there was no litter during the hours stated on my tkt.
case dismissed
rat bastards
Posted by: selective at July 17, 2007 11:11 AM
Call Spitzer and express your support for this bill!
PADAVAN’S ‘LAWN LITTER’ BILL WINS BIPARTISAN LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL
http://frankpadavan.com/press_archive_story.asp?id=17296
New York State Senator Frank Padavan (Queens) announced today that the ‘Lawn Litter’ bill has received bipartisan approval in the state Legislature; the bill (S.3420/A.6247-A) would help residents get rid of the unwanted literature unscrupulously dropped on door steps. “The bill allows residents to post a sign stating that advertisements and solicitations shall not be placed on their property. If business owners fail to comply, hefty fines will be accessed,” Padavan said.
New Yorkers should e-mail the Governor by visiting www.ny.gov/governor and click the Contact the Governor icon, call him at (212) 681-4580 or (518) 474-8390, or write to him at Governor Eliot Spitzer, Executive Chamber, Albany, New York 12224 and urge him to sign the ‘Lawn-Litter’ (S.3420/A.6247-A) bill into law.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 11:14 AM
It obviously sucks for the brownstone owner who gets a big fine for a soda can, but I have to agree that the enforcement is very uneven. I live on Lincoln Place in PH, and there are two buildings on my block that are _atrocious_ about cleaning up trash. On top of never ever cleaning the litter out front, they contribute by having overflowing and uncovered trash cans just sitting out on the street. Disgusting, and a real pity because all the other bldgs on the block are quite good about the cleanup. Can we PLEASE get some of those DoS guys who are harassing Clinton Hillers over on my block?
Posted by: ed at July 17, 2007 11:20 AM
Here's a form to fill out to request a garbage bin in NYC:
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dsny/html/contact/requests_litter.shtml?onlineform_prd
Posted by: Anonymouse at July 17, 2007 11:21 AM
My friends in Mott Haven (BX) have told me that sanitation staff walk by EVERY DAY to ticket anyone with litter on the sidewalk in front of their house. very unfair.
Posted by: anon at July 17, 2007 12:05 PM
Re: Brower Park's comments, yeah, that freaks me out - the casual dropping of garbage by people. The other day a car was double parked on my block waiting for somebody. A guy in the car casually threw out of his car window a syrofoam take-out container with rice and chicken all over the street. Guess he was cleaning up his car.
Posted by: anon Ft. Greener at July 17, 2007 12:13 PM
Then there is the opposite happening...I called 311 to report a corner building in my neighborhood that is totally neglected--trash everywhere that simply begets more and bigger trash (people obviously think of it as a place to dump loads of debris)--and request a Sanitation Dept violation. When I phoned 311 back to follow up on the complaint they said someone went out the next day but no violation was issued. WHY? There is garbage and tree debris completely covering the entire sidewalk. It's disgusting.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 1:09 PM
These same people have given me a ticket after I had swept up the sidewalk in front of our home and had not separated the filthy paper, flyers and blood stained tissues into the recycling can as I threw all the swept up garbage into the main garbage bag.
I asked this guy who had seen me doing my civic duty and sweep up the mounds of garbage that blows from the overflowing garbage cans on the corner of our block if he had the easiest job in the world as he can always find something to ticket when he needs to.
He answer, Yes.
A total abuse of the system!
Posted by: Anon at July 17, 2007 1:42 PM
My 2 cents.
Neither of these bills would do anything to improve the cleanliness of our nieghborhoods. We need better enforcement, not less enforcement. Trash on the street is a real problem. It contributes to unsanitary conditions, lowers property values, and adds to a sense of a neighborhood in decline. We need cleaner streets, not streets with more trash.
Posted by: Jim at July 17, 2007 2:01 PM
ok jim
explain to me how i'm supposed to clean up my sidewalk while i'm at work.
should i quit my job?
Posted by: Jo at July 17, 2007 2:06 PM
In case anyone else was scratching there head at kim @ 9:41's reference to a crying indian, I found that PSA on YouTube. Hahaha!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTpbRw2FiU4
That said, I have to agree that it seems obvious that these fines are pure and simple a means to raise funds, and they don't necessarily seem to be working much to deter litter. Wish I had better ideas. Oh and I hate those stupid fliers, too!
Posted by: rj at July 17, 2007 3:24 PM
Neither option is good. How about a warning before the ticket and only ticket before 7:30 am or after 7:30 pm (when us poor working slobs are actually home to take care of the litter. What we are supposed to train the dog or cat to go outside during the day and pick up trash)?
And while were at it, why do smoker seem to think that it's OK to toss thier still glowing cig buts just about any where, like they are somehow not garbage that they (the smoker) needs to deal with?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 17, 2007 3:41 PM
Be careful what you wish for. We had a city trash can appear on our (residential) corner early one morning. Not only was there trash scattered about from when they put the can down, but I also watched people in cars traveling by throw trash at the can, and miss it. Once a broken umbrella and a bag of trash were in it, there wasn't much room for anything else. And that was in just one morning.
It didn't help us at all and only made things worse, as one old-timer had told me the year before when I was thinking about requesting a trash can. Within 2 days, I requested that the city remove it (which they did within 2 days). I also requested that the city place one on a nearby commercial corner, which should be maintained all day anyway. Things are definitely better now.
Posted by: HC at July 18, 2007 11:50 AM
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