Open House Picks

Not sure if the 'muse' isn't the NYTimes fault not BHRE - I don't see that word on their website.
This is next door to the house discussed last week. Maybe when saw how much neighbor was getting they figured they'd fo for it too.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 12:50 PM

Hmm, maybe that's the market price?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 1:32 PM

It's wild that the owner of the "muse" paid 770k last September...that's a 50% return. Insane for a "house" that's 11 feet wide.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 1:35 PM

The Mews house is basically smaller than stacking three FEMA trailers on top of one another. Anyone who pays $1.1mm is insane.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 1:41 PM

I think the mews may have been over-improved. those mantels look like something out of Versace's mansion...

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 2:16 PM

A few too many odes to grecian urns...

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 2:24 PM

I wouldn't assume RC. Almost always mention or imply when there is one.
It is on 1st block off piers. Longer walk to subway. Semi-industrial area.
Not to say couldn't work - maybe great $1M views from a roof deck. And seems to be in not bad condition.
Interesting area but not for someone who pining for brownstone homogenous upscale block.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 3:53 PM

On the bright side, with respect to the potential rooftop views 3:53p mentioned, the waterfront a few buildings down will now forever remain a container port, so no threat of megalith towers going in there.

Pity is that they can't effectively repave Van Brunt to correct for current bombed-out, severely potholed state, for as soon as its paved (and the asphalt still soft) the huge semis just roll over and drive deep ruts right back into it.

Eh, it's their neighborhood anyway. Comes with the territory.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 4:19 PM

What a quiet market.

No comments on the windsor terrace house? its a lovely position. Not sure about the amount of work it would need inside though.

three months ago this would be hailed as good value, I think?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 4:58 PM

Windsor Terrace is an outlying neighborhood? It is risky? Since I've lived in BK since '80 it has been rock solid. It never was as rough as FG or even PH

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 5:42 PM

I think I've pretty well paid my dews reading this thread.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 7:02 PM

In addition to WT being a nice place to live in of itself (safe, on the park, on a major train line & near its own shops), the very short distance from Park Slope is reflected in the price of homes being considerably cheaper than what you would find in Park Slope.

Im sure there are some people who consider WT "outlying" but I think the recent sales in the area wouldnt support that. Nice houses in this little stretch have fetched far more than I thought would be possible for WT in the past 2 months. Can't say if this house is nice or not based on the listings photos but it will be interesting to see what happens to this one.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 7:19 PM

the mews houses are mean and doll-sized. Meant for "working class" Victorians, i think we can do better today for the money thank you very much.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 7:50 PM

I live in WT and I am very happy that our neighborhood is not being hyped on this blog. It's better that you all don't know about it really. It's not as large or as geared towards people buying and selling so frequently like other areas are. There aren't starter apartments or many rentals. So if you buy a house you might consider it. You might not. That's okay. Not too many come on the market anyway so they generally get snapped up quickly when they do. It's has a low FAR and is already built up with housing stock that is good, so developers aren't really able to bulldoze sections of it down and build very high there. So if you want to think of it as outlying, from my perspective, that's good.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 9:35 PM

Anon at 9:35:

If you don't want people to think your neighborhood is the greatest, then why are you going on about how it's a hidden secret delight better than all the rest?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2007 10:34 PM

Oh now, WT is a totally cute neighborhood. I went to WT for the first time recently, to see an apartment my friend just moved into. We ourselves chose to buy in a 'hood that's not to be mentioned (or else the trolls descend) because we wanted access to express trains to Manhattan, but WT is a lovely place. It's very unique in its whole vibe. That's something that should be celebrated about Brooklyn, how each neighborhood has its unique identity and vibe. Do we really want them all to be the same? Some people prefer less hustle and bustle and crowds on sidewalks. Improvements and amenities are always welcome, but it's nice that there's still something for everybody in this borough. Also one upside to being in an "outlying" neighborhood, we found neighbors are more likely to socialize with each other, and host parties in their homes more often for neighbors, when there are not 50 bars and restaurants right outside their door. We experienced this difference immediately upon arrival.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 28, 2007 2:30 PM

Anyone see the Warren Place place today?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 28, 2007 5:13 PM

Whoever wrote that the container ports are staying and that Van Brundt is the territory of semis clearly has a stake in the neighborhood remaining industrial. The container ports staying is far from likely. The city has simply dropped the issue for now. And the potholes on Van Brundt are their because the city is in the middle of a huge multi million dollar reconstruction the whole Columbia street area. All of Van Brundt and Columbia street will be repaved once this is over.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 9:30 AM

Clearly has a stake in the neighborhood remaining industrial?

Give me a break. I have lived in the neighborhood for 22 years. I have nothing to do with the port.

Just calling out the facts, and recognizing that it was there long before anyone else in the neighborhood was alive (including yuppie new arrivals like you that so desperately wish to change it).

And Van Brunt construction, as the reason for why it's a disaster? Hah. This is pathetic. What a noob. What, did you *just* move here, or just start shopping at Fairway?

Got news for you. It has always been in horrendous shape.

Every time they repave Van Brunt, it gets the ruts back. Every time.

So what's your excuse for the pitted, horrendous condition of Van Brunt before this latest round of "construction?"

Oh wait, you didn't live here yet.

Buh-bye.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 9:59 AM

Oh, and the following comment of yours was utterly laughable:

"The container ports staying is far from likely. The city has simply dropped the issue for now."

So let's get this straight...no one supports this any more. Anywhere. The only people who did support this have been replaced by a new administration that has utterly abandoned this plan and re-issued long-term support for the status quo.

A new long-term lease for the shipping operations is being drafted, according to the local papers.

It looked like things were headed toward different use in recent years, but I have to say that the one chance anyone had here is now long gone.

No wishing-it-weren't-so on your part will change that.

I suggest you make other plans.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 10:09 AM

Yuppie noob,

Let me guess...

You bought something on Tiffany Place a year or so ago, and you are hoping (desperately) that the neighborhood will change like you'd hoped for and were expecting when you signed.

Ever think there was a reason why the folks who sold to you sold?

Hah, suckers.

Yeah, gentrification is on your side overall for houses and apt buildings and other largely residential areas, but for anything as heavily regulated/controlled as a working waterfront lands (and not just idle waterfront like Revere, Ikea etc), you've got one long, long, long wait ahead of you.

The pendulum almost swung your way, but heavily entrenched interests killed the Imlay St. luxury condos and hotel project, re-affirmed majority industrial /manufacturing zoning in the larger overall area (last year...), and now Mayor's EDC has just changed hands and reversed position, and a new long-term lease is in the works.

In the meantime other neighborhoods (heh, nearly ALL) will have proven a much better investment return in a much shorter time, without these well-funded, well-connected impediments to your plan for that neighborhood.

Hah, whomever sold to you must have been laughing all the way to the bank with your check.

In the meantime, those of us who have lived here over the long-term, having heard banter of this and other projects for *decades* like capping over the BQE trench to build a park or other homes etc, will continue to appreciate or neighborhood for all it is, and not be so gullible and naive to think that the Brooklyn and NYC political and industrial machines are so easily moved.

My over/under for what you propose:

30 years at soonest, after this next long-term lease for shipping operations has expired, and after several years of additionally blistering debate.

Hope you're faith in gentrification and your investment can weather that.

Ha.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 2:46 PM

Doesn't sound like Port Authority is too keen on signing a long term lease with American Stevedoring...

"A spokesman told The Post [Port Authority] won't give any lease extensions and that American Stevedoring can remain as holdover tenants..."

Hmmm. Wonder what that means. I think you are underestimating the City if you think they have given up on getting rid of the container port.

And by the way, the container port has only been there since the 70's. Hardly, "long before anyone in the neighborhood was alive."

Don't kid yourself. This neighborhood is still very much in transition.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 2:48 PM

Oh, this is rich.

So are you actually claiming that the entire area has not been industrial and working waterfront for the last, oh...200+ years?

Better tell Arthur Miller that his 1950s classic "A View From The Waterfront" is all wrong, that there was no shipping and docks there. And that little nothing of a film "On The Waterfront," too.

Wow. 2:48pm was a joke, right?

For all intents and purposes, this entire area has *always* been a working waterfront and industrial/manufacturing businesses.

But no, I guess that all just started in the 1970s, my apologies.

So, seriously, did you really mean to post that?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 3:21 PM

Yeah, I'm devastated 2:46 my property has only doubled in value since I bought it. What have I done?!!

I'm sorry that your art is not selling and that you and your inner petulant child are being priced out of the neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 3:29 PM

You really should get your facts straight before you start ranting.

First of all the name of the Aurther Miller play is " A View From the Bridge"

Second of all if you bother doing a little research you can learn for yourself when the American Stevedoring Shipping Terminal was built. I promise you it was not 200 years ago.

If you wanted to bother to try preserve something that was 200 years old you should have tried to stop Ikea from filling in the dry dock for their F*&%ing parking lot.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 3:43 PM

Priced out? Another joke.

I own a house here. Have for 19 years (after initially renting here for a few years after law school).

And I won't even get into how much it has multiplied since I bought, as I am not planning on moving.

I'm a lawyer in midtown, so I hardly have any issues about being able to afford anything. I chose to live here because of family in the area.

You, on the other hand, have moved here betting on things changing drastically (in spite of the nature of the machines present).

So you may have your tiny little condo that you over-leveraged your petty salary to buy (and your condo has only gone up 20% in last 2 years, max. fwiw) and proceed onward with your grand hubris for changing what's always been an industrial, manufacturing and shipping neighborhood.

And in the meantime, if you like, I will frame your "inner petulant child" phrase and hang it in my office, so I may look with fondness upon it to remember the rude awakening coming for you some day when all your bets and dreams are for naught, and the rest of us here have always been quite happy in the interim.

You clearly have disdain for the neighborhood as it stands, so I hardly thing this conversation is worth continuing.

Good day.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 3:52 PM

Clown at 3:43p,

Yes, I did edit incorrectly when putting in the book and the movie titles.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are saying that there was no shipping or industry there before American Stevedoring came in 20 years ago, and that there has not been shipping and manufacturing industry dominant here for the last 200+ years.

To me, that's a far more embarrassing mistake.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 3:59 PM

Then I'm sorry that things are changing in a way that is not to your liking, I'm sorry that you cannot stop the fact that the neighborhood will change. I'm sorry that you are so attached to the pot holes on Van Brundt street that it hurts you to think about a smooth resurfaced Van Brundt. I'm sorry that you think your new neighbors don't like the neighborhood the way it is now. I'm sorry that you find your new neighbors to be horrible people who only moved here to make a buck. I'm sorry that you decided to become a lawyer and that you have so much anger in you.

I think the person who has disdain for the neighborhood and the people who live in it is you.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 4:13 PM

When did I say there was no shipping industry ? Almost all of New York's waterfront was shipping industry 200 years ago.

Is that the lawyer in you making a lame attempt at changing my words? You must be a fine lawyer.

American Stevedoring, which is what we are talking about, has not been there for more than 30 years. Furthermore, American Stevedoring hardly had any ships coming in until the City threatened to take the land. Then suddenly there were ships coming in every week.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 4:31 PM

this is not real life. these are the magical purlieus of the internet where everyone can beat their chest.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 4:43 PM

4:13pm,

Let's pause the mutual animosity for the moment (ridiculous idea on Brownstoner, I know...), and focus just on the substance of arguments here.

Suffice it to say that, if you remain anywhere near the area long enough, you will note the following:

- No matter how many times Van Brunt is repaved, the ruts and holes will appear almost immediately, as it is a primary conduit for large trucks and takes more wear and tear than nearly any other street in the neighborhood. This is merely a fact observed over time, and as stated in 4:19pm yesterday, merely comes with the territory.

- No matter how many new initiatives over the decades have come up to change the waterfront or the BQE trench or whatever, there will always be huge opposition of the political machine and well-funded industrial interests, the end product will be but a mere shadow of the original idea (after huge carve-outs and questionable/sleazy "budget over-runs" (witness current Columbia Street promises unfulfilled) an election coming (for there always is..), and some other project (like just salvaging Brooklyn Bridge Park plan) that suddenly takes priority.

As I said before, the pendulum swung almost all the way to the changes you were looking for in recent years (and many considered ASI and others to be on their last legs), but the last year in particular and especially recent months of above-stated events have clearly indicated that the pendulum is now swinging back the other way, ASI's (and others') bare-nails grip and aggressive political funding and influence has helped it back from the brink and actually into greater strength for it's part in having killed the Imlay projects, influenced strict re-affirmation of mostly industrial zoning in the larger area, and with their man Yassky out there with more than enough support now to pass a resolution to force a new ASI long-term lease, despite whatever Port Authority thinks its options are.

Lets go back to this issue being superceded by other, larger priorities. Port Authority needs local officials, industrial and political machines to curry support for other, far larger city-wide projects.

Again, if you live here long enough, you will just see that Port Authority is just posturing here with those statements, so they will have this card to play (and cede) in negotiations for support on other larger projects.

If you live here long enough, you will see all this play out over and over, on different issues, with similar results: the machines in play retreat to other priorities, and just use these things to curry favor or avoid resistance elsewhere.

Case and point: Bloomberg's supposed recent crackdown on Ratner's huge windfall abuse of 421-a carve-out resulted in Ratner losing nothing, and carve-out preserved. Ratner maneuvered the discussion to give the city that money back by cheating new owners of longer (initially intended) tax breaks, and city accepted that, opting not to wage further battles there.

Heck, even the West Side Rail Yards Jets stadium project was railroaded, spearheaded by the Dolans who had everything to lose with their MSG venue nearby.

Live around here long enough, and you will see that events behind the scenes dictate everything.

And I just don't see this waterfront conversion as something on which anyone will ever venture to stake their career, relative to other battles.

So all I am adding here is the perspective of time, having seen all this play out endlessly before.

Animosity here apparently made for some amusing diversion for both sides here, but at the base of the conversation, regarding the actual issues, all that is being said here is that the window for what you propose seems to have passed for the near term, tide of gentrification in favor or no, merely due to the larger issues present behind the scenes.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 4:53 PM

well done 4:53. I almost find it hard to believe that this is the same person that bragged about how he is a high powered midtown lawyer and ended particularly taunting sentences with, "ha" on earlier posts. Oops. I guess that was snarky.

I still think you are selling your neighborhood short. There are plenty of roads in New York City that have as much truck traffic as Van Brundt and still manage to offer a smooth modern day road experience. If Van Brundt has always had pot holes it is because it has not been maintained properly or the road was never built properly in the first place. If the city after spending how many millions of dollars on the reconstruction of Columbia Street cannot build a road that can handle the truck traffic then the city needs to be called to task because is it certainly is capable of building such a road and I don't think the people who live in this neighborhood (that I love) have to put up with that. Funny, that your attitude is to say that this is just the way it is, because you don't seem like the type to just roll over.

Vinnie Barbarino. Yes, walk to the F is ten minutes but you can hop in a car/taxi and be in manhattan via the battery tunnel or brooklyn bridge in five minutes, which is a real convenient for anyone who works downtown.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2007 11:27 PM

SO did anybody actually go to the open houses? i thought the carroll st is worth a look, but i was out of town... it is also more than a 10 minute walk to the carroll street station, by the way, it's more like 12-14min. which is kinda far for NY standards...

Posted by: Anonymous at July 30, 2007 12:44 AM

RE: Windsor Place.

Went to the OH. In a nutshell.

1st Floor: Nice!
2nd Floor: Yuck!
Basement: Yeesh!
Price: Yikes!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 30, 2007 1:20 PM

Also went to the Carroll St open house and was largely disappointed. The reality was not nearly as nice as the photos.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 30, 2007 1:37 PM

Rock,

yeah, but will the prices hold? what if you buy a house for 1.2 million, dump in 100k to renovate, and can only sell the place for 1 million after the market drops?

that's my fear. what do you folks think? i don't like the idea of not being able to move because i'd lose too much money selling my house.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 30, 2007 10:17 PM