Off-Site Affordable Housing Moving Along on Quincy

I have very mixed feelings about this. One the one hand, I'm glad the housing is being built, and building on Quincy beats building out in the boonies, like near Gateway Plaza Mall. So, partially, they are at least building affordable units in communities that will eventually be more mixed income, and are also accessible to jobs and transportation into Manhattan.

I am not going to jump up and down and say "good program" like Jonz, however, because I agree that building mixed income neighborhoods in the first place is the best way to go. I do not agree that mixing the "poor" in makes for an eventual poor building. As I have said so many times, it should type itself, between the rich and the very poor are all of the people and the jobs that make this city run. As SPer says - like secretaries and token clerks, among thousands of other occupations. These people have the same goals and asperations for their living conditions as wealthier people do.

I stayed with a friend in London for a time, and I have to keep coming back to their example as how I see a working economic mix in actual practice. In the now tony neighborhood of Notting Hill, whose history is very similar to Clinton Hill/Fort Greene, racially and economically, council houses and high end row houses are literally next door to each other. Both newly built housing developments, and older council flats stand across the street and next to rows of very expensive homes. Everything is kept up well, and it works. The council fees (property taxes) that the wealthier pay help the gov't to pay for and subsidize the council houses. I'm sure there are plenty who resent that, but it makes a nice community where you can see all income levels on the streets, in the stores, and on the buses and trains. Why can't that be engineered to happen here, when new construction is planned?

Posted by: Sterling Silver at July 9, 2007 1:23 PM

"Common Sense", you should change your name to Gated Community Bigot, because that name is certainly closer to your opinions.

First of all, I never said I hated this country or living here, however with people like you here, perhaps a one way ticket to Europe would be nice. Hold onto that one for me, willya?

I mentioned what I saw in London, are you going to deny me my observations? Those observations have nothing to do with your "statistics" on life in London. You would probably object to someone saying the same things about New York, especially from an outsider. I don't see people leaving London in droves for the same reason they don't leave here, but that is all besides the point here. London is not up for debate.

"Tyrone from Attica"?? If you think all minority people who don't make whatever your standard of quality is, are all felons, then perhaps you are the one who needs the one way ticket. I resent your condescending code words and phrases, and call much bullshit on your ennuendo. I'm not going to waste my time recounting the history or acheivements of the black working poor in this country, you obviously have made up your mind. I guess your Tyrone from Attica is your Willie Horton. I need to hear nothing more. You aren't worth arguing with, as you aren't debating, you are simply stereotyping.

If anyone wants to debate the merits of affordable housing, I'm game. "Common Sense" and I have nothing to talk about.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at July 9, 2007 2:38 PM

Michael and John are race neutral names, Tyrone is not, let's not kid ourselves.

I do not see the word racist anywhere in any of my posts. If you feel you heard it, then check out your own comments, because that's where the whisper is coming from.

How nice of you to mention 2 rich, worthy and acceptable black people for potential neighbors. How liberal of you. Why not mention Oprah and Denzel, while we're here? We're not talking about living with any of them, however.

You imply that the residents of NYCHA or low income communities are all criminals at worst, lazy bastards at best. Most people in housing projects work, and work very hard, many at crap jobs that don't pay enough for them to live in unsubsidized housing. This is not a newsflash. Yet you take the small minority of troublemakers, criminals and gangsters to be the total undeserving population that in your scenario, are going to live in these buildings. Have you no idea how much the decent people stuck in the projects want to get away from the criminal elements? THEY are the victims 90% of the time, not the outside world. They are just as "deserving" as any hard working immigrant, and are the "working people" you favor.

As for comparisons to London and Europe, yes, many social situations are apples and oranges compared to here, but to imply that what works in London cannot work here because they are in Europe is simplistic, and a cop out. By the way, most of Europe's major cities do have drug trafficing, areas with shitty schools, and far too many guns. Maybe not as many as here, but being shot is still being shot. Urban problems are strikingly similar all over.

I also never said that different socioeconomic groups do not mix here, of course they do - I just want that to continue. Which is why this whole discussion started - new construction should be mixed income on site more times than not.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at July 9, 2007 4:27 PM

Umm, your last 2 paragraphs make no sense at all. Don't put it off on Bed Stuy vs Park Slope. One could just as easily ask why so little diversity exists in Mill Basin or Bensonhurst. Or most of Staten Island, for that matter. Neighborhood exclusivity, especially regarding race, is not simplistic, or only a matter of blacks/Latinos keeping the white folks out.

I have never seen black people in Bed Stuy protesting condos, especially because they don't want to share with white people. Please provide addresses and situations, not just ridiculous blanket statements.

If there are any such demonstrations going on in either the Latino or black communities, they go on for the same reason they are protested in the South Slope, or anywhere else - they are protesting non-contextural POS buildings replacing perfectly good existant buildings that could have been renovated or reused, or luxury condos are being plonked down in the middle of a neighborhood that is in dire need of affordable housing. Race is totally irrelevant.

It seems to matter very much to you that blacks and latinos are the bigots here, not you. Methinks thou dost protest waaayyyy too much.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at July 9, 2007 5:20 PM

Excuse me, "Common Sense", but I think if you took a poll, most would agree that you have been smoking PCP here, not me or Beeotch. I've read very carefully what you have said, and I stand by every word I have said.

You obviously have problems with people not agreeing with you. You also have anger management problems. People who have to resort to cursing and using bad language as their last resort to making a point, usually know that they've failed, they just want to go out loudly. Well, you've succeeded.

I believe that Beeotch mentions several times that she, too, is Jewish, so I think she is quite familiar with the concept and the reality of having one's family flee the Holocaust. But that point, as well as anything else anyone may have said, is drowned out by your need to be top dog in this argument.

While you may be sick of her inter-racial marriage, I find your boasting about your liasons with the darker tribes quite tiresome, not to mention rather revolting. I am so not interested in who you sleep with, or why. By the way, I believe the perjorative phrase you used is actually called "poontang". If you are going to be crass, at least be correct.

Posted by: Sterling Silver at July 9, 2007 8:41 PM