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June 15, 2007
Poll: People Generally Psyched For Whole Foods
Last week we asked readers to take a poll to get an idea of what the general mood about the arrival of the upscale grocer to Gowanus was. About half the respondents just want their Whole Foods and want it now. The majority of the other half a psyched for Whole Foods but have concerns about the environmental impact of the project, given how contaminated the 3rd Street site is. A bunch of comments from the poll are included on the jump.
Whole Foods Facing an Uphill Battle in Gowanus [Brownstoner]
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Comments
I'm personally excited for the Whole Foods. But I have to point out that if you look at the numbers above, an equal number of people have concerns about the project as are psyched for it (48% vs. 13+35%) - no? Environmental impact is really a subset of the scale problem . . . So I think your read is misleading . . .
Posted by: PSMan at June 15, 2007 10:30 AM
Add the two "concern" responses, and you get an equal (+1 even) size group. Just sayin.
Posted by: chuck at June 15, 2007 10:31 AM
I think having almost 50% psyched is major accomplishment. Since vast majority of Brownstoners are against anything and everything anyway - the idea someone is building a new building and almost 50% are really happy is astonishing.
Posted by: petebklyn at June 15, 2007 10:42 AM
we took that 35% to mean that they are psyched to have whole foods but want to make sure the environmental clean-up of things is well taken care of...could be misinterpreting we guess...
Posted by: Brownstoner at June 15, 2007 10:45 AM
I don't think the options for answers were very well constructed - as evidenced by the alternative interpretations discussed above. Net result - mostly inconclusive, though I think the 48% in favor *does* speak for itself.
Posted by: EJ at June 15, 2007 10:52 AM
i'm going to go ahead and say that many on this site are concerned first for their own comfort (like all humans), and then their neighborhood. ok. at. yards and whole foods are two different universes, but honestly, i can afford to live in a brownstone and drive a car in ft. greene. at. yards will not benefit me whatsoever, so i am opposed. whole foods, yummy food, a pleasant atmosphere, and i can afford it. it benefits my basic comfort level and therefore i support it. at. yards does not, and therefore i am opposed. i mean what drives us is pretty darn basic. (and a little sad).
Posted by: thechime at June 15, 2007 10:58 AM
thechime:
I think this was the first entirely honest comments post in the history of Brownstoner. Applause.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 11:10 AM
I'd like to point out a difference between AY and Whole Foods, namely that my tax dollars are going to subsidize one (AY) and not the other. Double negative to be taxed for something you don't want in the first place.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 11:14 AM
good point thechime. I however, am like you but live in Clinton Hill and, despite misgivings, am for AY because in the long run it will increase my property values.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 11:17 AM
me too 11:17.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 11:54 AM
Sad when the thing people are most concerned about is increase in property values. I'm an owner too, and while I'm also happy to see my property increase in value, insofar this validates my choice to live where I do, I also recognize this is a token in a game than some kind of absolute value (unless I move out of this market altogether). If what I love about my neighborhood and my city (the great City of Brooklyn) is damaged by ill-considered development, I've lost, not gained, regardless of the value on paper of my home.
53% of respondents to this poll have serious reservations about Whole Foods.
Posted by: SPer at June 15, 2007 12:03 PM
"If what I love about my neighborhood and my city (the great City of Brooklyn) is damaged by ill-considered development, I've lost, not gained, regardless of the value on paper of my home."
Simply stated and heart-felt... I'm in total agreement "SPer" 12:03pm
Posted by: bren at June 15, 2007 12:32 PM
Stop it all of you. Stop talking about Atlantic Yards on every post.
Brownstoner, can't you put up a permapost for people to vent off about AY, so the other post can actually stay on topic?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 12:41 PM
there has been no City of Brooklyn for 100 years. You live in New York City. And sometimes your perspectives seem that dated and provincial also.
There are always concerns over any change. But in the Whole Foods case - the concern is more whether the environment is cleaned up enough for the grocery not whether the grocery store will have a negative impact on the environment.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2007 12:48 PM
That has got to be one of the absolutely worst-written and most skewed-by-design polls I've ever seen, and I really don't think it deserves any credence whatsoever.
Only one reason to be against the project? Three options either to "welcome" or be "psyched" about it?
Clearly this poll isn't meant to be scientific, but I think it should be frankly ignored. It's irrelevant.
Posted by: Murderface at June 15, 2007 1:01 PM
I'm for Whole Foods, but was put off by the way the poll was written so I voted for other.
I am concerned about the environmental impact, but only insofar as the lot is cleaned up properly. Not at all worried about what Whole Foods will do the neighborhood.
Posted by: Brooklyn Resident at June 15, 2007 2:26 PM
I am curious as to why people love Whole Foods so much? They don't really carry anything you can't already get in NYC. Doesn't the increased presence of national chains undermine the unique character that is the reason many people want to live here?
Posted by: MJ Marvel at June 15, 2007 2:43 PM
I am curious as to why people love Whole Foods so much. They don't really carry anything you can't already get in NYC. Doesn't the increased presence of national chains undermine the unique character that is the reason many people want to live here?
Posted by: MJ Marvel at June 15, 2007 2:43 PM
i'll tell you why they love it 2:43. you'll notice that whole foods brooklyn edition is coming to GOWANUS.
if the powers that be decided that it would be whole foods, PARK SLOPE, this would not be happening.
because it's one block further down and not technically IN park slope everyone from park slope can love that they'll have their precious whole foods, while knowing that the CHAIN store that they all seem to oppose so much is not ACTUALLY in THEIR neighborhood.
it's in GOWANUS. say it with me.
but when something great come to THE GOWANUS. you better believe everyone is gonna be calling it PARK SLOPE!
Posted by: anonymous at June 15, 2007 3:18 PM
As someone who lived directly across from the joint for the past 2.5 years in Chelsea, Whole Foods is deeply flawed (Republican owner, ridiculous prices, over-ripe produce, silly politics that permist the sale of, say, veal, but forbid selling Coke or paper towels that are worth a shit). However, NYC has such legendarily disgusting grocery shopping (Associated, Key, Gristedes, D'Ag) that any store that has a slightly lower chance of giving you food poisoning--let alone that carries decent meats, seafood, and cheese--is exciting beyond belief to those of us who love to cook. Meanwhile, despite being a huge fan of Brownstoner, I'm going to second the notion that the survey was too leading. None of the options for response reflected my feelings about the place.
Posted by: bob999 at June 15, 2007 3:24 PM
There is more to environmental impact than cleaning up toxic sludge as positive as that is. The parking lot 450 cars churning three times an hour is 1350 cars an hour divided by 60 minutes = 22.5 a minute or about a car every three seconds. One in each direction on 3rd is a car every 6 seconds in each direction. Clearly there will be busier and slower times but during the slower hours there will be substantial impacts from the truck deliveries.
Of course only the abutters, like myself the 3rd St. residents will take that hit. Our block is very transit dependent with a bus route and a subway stop. As these automobiles mix with the overflow traffic from the BQE it could be very heavy traffic flows, per lane just as busy as Atlantic Yards. When broken up by traffic lights there will be substantial backups maybe even into the parking lot at Whole Foods.
Funny how the Carrol Gardens Neighborhood Association, so loudly against residential density allowed under R6 zoning so easily swallowed these huge traffic impacts. Lowes, Home Depot, Ikea, Whole Foods, Pathmark pretty soon you see lots of space in Gowanus given over to parking. Surely fertility drugs for traffic and a sacrifice of scarce space that housing and manufacturing also compete for.
Please work some of that stuff into your next poll on the matter.
Posted by: NIccolo' Machiavelli at June 15, 2007 3:29 PM
I loved living a block from the Chelsea Whole Foods and it's one thing I miss most having moved near to where the Gowanus Whole Foods will be. Sure, some things are more expensive, but the Whole Foods 365 brand is usually cheaper than buying the same product at another store and the quality is great. I also love a lot of their prepared foods and will welcome having a place to buy fresh bread -- choices are lacking in Park Slope. I missed the poll and didn't get to vote how "psyched" I am. Trader Joe's is okay but really doesn't have the selection Whole Foods does and is more of a specialty store.
I don't really understand why Whole Foods is singled out over any other developer for needing to have a green roof or take care environmentally beyond the toxic waste. I think people confuse what Whole Foods stands for and maybe expect too much. I don't see the Whole Foods chain as anything similar to Lowes, Home Depot or Pathmark. Those stores are hideous and awful to shop in while Whole Foods actually makes shopping fun with all their free samples and their community boards. I think big parking lots are an eyesore and make our city like any other strip mall around the country, though I see why they're needed -- it would be nice if they could be underground, though. It would also be nice if Whole Foods had the budget to do all these green things dissenters want, but I think that might be a new thing for the stores, and not really in their agenda.
Posted by: anonymously at June 15, 2007 5:59 PM
I actually agree with you, anon 5:59, both about the unrealistic environmental expectations that people are heaving onto WF at this location, and about the excellent quality and value of the 365 line. It's just that you realize that WF's prices on other things--meats, cheese, olives, mustard--are so insane if you start shopping at Fairway, as I have just done. Fairway is the best grocery company I have ever encountered anywhere. A huge pack of truly fresh herbs, packed by Fairway themselves, is $1.29. Herbs aqt Whole Foods, which are the same plastic-bound herbs you get at Kroger or Safeway, are $2.50 or $3.
Posted by: bob999 at June 15, 2007 6:20 PM
And I agree with you bob999, Fairway can't be beat. But I'll be able to walk to Whole Foods, so that's a big plus for me and it will fill in the blanks between Fairway visits.
Posted by: anonymously at June 15, 2007 7:01 PM
whole foods has overpriced crap!!!
$8.00 for a pound of grapes anyone??
Hello?? these actually grow on trees!!
status whores shop there
Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2007 12:46 AM
I liken this place to the "Rolex of the Grocery world">>> it isn't really about telling time.
Whole Foods isn't so much about buying food eat so much as showing off.
It is like going to Bloomingdale's to buy a gallon of $10 milk.
Posted by: Mr.Peabody at June 16, 2007 1:07 AM
this is retarted a poll regarding this on curbed.com is completely innacurate. think of who readds a fucking real estate blog!
Posted by: the master at June 16, 2007 9:49 AM
exactly. not only that, but the way the poll was made is ridiculous.
i like eating healthy and whole foods caters to that, but f that, those prices are ridiculous, i get half the food for my money and i can get most of it elsewhere.
8.67 for a regular bag of bing cherries the other day and now i'm done with whole foods.
Posted by: exactly at June 16, 2007 9:59 AM
Whole Foods may be a status symbol to some but I don't think that's the whole story. Whole Foods serves people who are (i) into food and cooking (ii) well off enough not to freak out at the prices (iii) too lazy to go further afield (iv) poorly served by the alternatives. It's not unlike Fresh Direct. If there's nowhere near to where you live to get decent meat, fish, cheese or produce and you care enough, you'll pay for it. If you don't, you won't. Just because you can't afford to shop there, or aren't that into food doesn't mean everyone who can and is, is a status whore. For what it's worth, I think they're overpriced too. But sometimes if the difference is doing without, it's OK.
Posted by: TW at June 16, 2007 12:09 PM
All right, now--some of this shit is getting stupid. What the fk do you mean, shopping at Whole Foods "is a status symbol"?
A Rolex is a status symbol. You can't wear a cantaloupe on your wrist.
Posted by: bob999 at June 16, 2007 1:48 PM
Not even a $12 organic one.
Posted by: Bob999 at June 16, 2007 1:53 PM
I like to eat and I like to cook and I am also cheap. I found my favorite ecologically packaged cereal in WF for 2 dollars more than Fairway. Since I have to get into my car to shop anyway, I am happy to go to Fairway where the prices are great and the food excellent. Also, I go Russman (?) farms on 26th and 3rd for wonderful, cheap produce, and lots of other bargains. Something about Whole Foods whispers "sucker" to me. So, given my need to not pay top dollar for stuff, I am indifferent about the plans for a Gowanus whole foods.
What I would really like is to have a local supermarket which was halfway decent. The closest supermarket to my house, I think, is Met on Fulton which gives me the shakes. The chicken and meat is the same color grey and how can you mess up strawberries. Somehow they do. Nice and moldy and rotten on the ones you can't see. It is sad that it takes me 45 minutes to get PARSLEY.
I think it is a riot by the way all this talk about status grapes. Who gives a damn.
Posted by: donatella at June 16, 2007 3:11 PM
Grapes grow on vines, not trees. But since you apparently believe in magic, I am going to tell you a fairy tale.
Long long ago, when only crazy people and daring businesses inhabited lofts under the Manhattan Bridge, Dumbo was still a Disney movie and only a few poor students stayed around at Pratt after graduation, someone planned a birthday party at a loft on Water St. We decided to go shopping. We had heard a myth of a new Pathmark grocery store, somewhere sort of on the way to Bay Ridge, so we rolled a joint and drove off in a snow storm. Magically, thru the gusts, The Hamilton Ave. Pathmark appeared.
It was bright and shiny, filled with lettuce that wasn't slimy and webbed lawn chairs perched above abundantly stocked aisles. There were greeting cards and paperback books and pantyhose and Pampers. There were cheerful checkout people and shiny vinyl floors. There was a parking lot and you could take groceries to a waiting car. There was a Dunkin Donuts with coffee.
Pathmark was the most remarkable thing we'd ever seen in Brooklyn.
We bought crudites for the birthday party, and other party junk and went home, still smoking that joint, and ended up snowed in and not able to have a party after all. But we had vegetables, dammit. And a grocery store the likes of which we hadn't seen since we were vacationing somewhere far far away. Like Jersey.
Yes, once upon a time, services in this part of Brooklyn were a source of wonderment and joy.
I fucking LOVE the idea of Whole Foods. I need loofahs and organic lentil soup. I NEED frozen spelt dumplings and chakra bracelets.
Whatever genius unloaded a superfund site on Whole Foods deserves a special lifetime merit award.
Absolutely - let's worry about the environmental impact of a few cars. Jesus, they're cleaning up a century of poison so we can buy Peruvian Arugula.
I love New York.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2007 10:10 PM
10:10 - I got a chuckle out of your hazy reminiscences of Pathmark. You obviously haven't been back since your first golden visit. The isles are no longer gleaming, the staff gave up on friendly, and the lettuce, while still not slimy, is not all that great. Most businesses in this city, especially retail stores, have their opening moments of glory, and then after the spotlight goes off, the usual surly NY attitude comes back.
I remember when Lowes opened, an employee literally followed me around the entire store, begging me to have him help me in some way. Those days are long gone.
Ah, we have the memories. Whole Foods will be the same way.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2007 12:44 PM
YES:
"53% of respondents to this poll have serious reservations about Whole Foods.
Posted by: SPer at June 15, 2007 12:03 PM"
MORE THAN HALF OF RESPONDENTS DIDN"T SUPPORT THE PROJECT AS PROPOSED.
Is this all about manufacturing Whole Foods spinn for the company. Does BrownStoner have a backbone?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 18, 2007 10:59 AM
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