« Co-op of the Day: 415 9th Street, Apt. 53 What Events Would You Like to Hear About? »
June 1, 2007
Open House Picks
Prospect Heights
203 Prospect Place
Corcoran
Sunday 1-3
$1,999,999
GMAP P*Shark
Park Slope
387 2nd Street
Brooklyn Properties
Sat 2-4, Sun 2-4
$1,850,000
GMAP P*Shark
Prospect Lefferts Gardens
201 Lincoln Road
Brown Harris Stevens
Sat 2-4, Sun 2-4
$1,095,000
GMAP P*Shark
Bedford Stuyvesant
295 Macon Street
Douglas Elliman
Sunday 1-3
$985,000
GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I saw the 2nd Street property when it was FSBO. The broker's pictures are very flattering - this is a building that needs some hardcore cosmetic work done. That unpainted lattice-y wood thing is NOT original and adds a jarring discordant note on the parlor floor. If you're interested in buying, also check the C of O carefully. The owner's friends who were in charge at the showing told us that the building has been used as an illegal three family for years. There are kitchens on every floor, and though the friend said the current owner put in the top-floor kitchen because she thought it would be nice for her kids to have snacks and drinks up there (!?!?!), it all sounded a bit shaky. The $1.85mil asking seems aggressive for a three story that needs a lot of work.
On the other hand, I'm glad the owners went with a broker. My husband and I agreed that the seller needs a lot of buyer traffic in order to find someone to bite, and the seller will get much more exposure with the broker's website than with the FSBO ad in the NY Times.
Posted by: zeebee at June 1, 2007 1:20 PM
Hey is the Elliman website down? Can't get the Bed-Stuy listing to open...
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 1:29 PM
The Lincoln Road house, on the north side of the street, is just outside of Lefferts Manor so it's apartment is not a violation of our covenant. The c of o is, I guess, a separate matter.
IMO it's a very nice house on a beautiful block AND you could easily combine the open house with our HT on Sunday.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 1, 2007 1:42 PM
What a great idea - I should put in an extra kitchen for my kid to make snacks unattended....
There seems to be a preponderance of legal 2's used as 3's on the market lately.
Posted by: anon at June 1, 2007 1:49 PM
prospect heights problem is that it is a duplex with two apartments above it. Both of the brokers suggestions for use require ripping out kitchens, or building new kitchens. At $2m, why would you take that on?
If you take it as-is, you're paying $2m for a 1500 sq ft garden duplex, with rental income.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 1:57 PM
Once buyers have seen enough houses in Brooklyn they should be prepared to find excess kitchens. It's not unusual. But perhaps now that we're starting to see more houses for sale by the newer wave of homeowners, who have done modern renovations (as opposed to houses sold by the old-timer homeowners who have been there since the 70's which comprised the houses on the market in previous years) buyers think they shouldn't have to rip out excess kitchens. Buyers today even have expectations that they should get central AC with a house, even though that was unheard of up until a year or two ago. And on top of it, get these features without paying more for it. The reality is most houses you can buy for around a million will be in a condition that reflects the renovations of decades past, not the recent, very modern renovations.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 2:09 PM
I second the emissions. I can't really believe people should expect anything more than a shell for a mere 1M. Heck, I'd be ashamed if it got out that I'd spent less than 1.75M nowadays, assuming, of course, it's in a bad school district.
Yeah, I know, but somebody's gotta do it.
Posted by: cg renter at June 1, 2007 2:20 PM
2:09, that is true in many areas, but the main reason many people look in an area like Lefferts Manor is to get a fully renovated house for around a million--not one that needs to have extra kitchens ripped out and so on. I saw this house at the last open house and it is OK, but not worth 200K more than the 2 story on Maple, which only needs minor cosmetic touches (and which recently had its price reduced).
Posted by: dj at June 1, 2007 2:32 PM
Agree with 1:57... also, the copy of the Prospect Place listing seems to suggest that the place may be a legal 2-family.
Posted by: Ms. Brooklyn at June 1, 2007 2:42 PM
Cool! The 2nd Street House is 17.5 feet wide and squeezed into a 17 foot lot. It's a house in another dimension.
Posted by: PPSer at June 1, 2007 2:47 PM
I really like the Bed Stuy House it looks like it has been well cared for by the owner. The Elliman photos and video tour give you a good sense of the home.
Posted by: anon at June 1, 2007 2:51 PM
That seems right but then it depends, dj. The first house we looked at in LM a year ago was a bigger house, 4-story, and it had a kitchen on every floor. No joke. This despite the LM covenant. It was priced well over a million b/c of the size, and it did sell.
The 2-story on Maple you mention, was that the semi-detached close to Flatbush? Because I heard from a realtor who saw it that house needed much more than cosmetic work. And the location is not even comparable. It was too close to Flatbush. Even a house that's up a little further up towards Bedford would be much quieter but to be just two doors up from Flatbush is super noisy because of people hanging out outside the apartment building there. It's really unfortunate for that seller, but there it is.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 3:10 PM
The Bed Stuy house does look nice. I don't know anything about the blocks in Bed Stuy to comment on location though. Also I would have removed the giant poster canopy bed placed in that one room at an angle. It makes the bedroom feel very small, and the bed is placed awkwardly right under the ceiling fan blades. I get a feeling of annoyance looking at it. They should at least take down the canopy part. Just leave the bedframe. Not that it stops a house from selling. But it can reduce number of bids, the little stuff like that.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 3:16 PM
"I agreed that the seller needs a lot of buyer traffic in order to find someone to bite,"
Unfortunately, they won't get that from the Brooklyn Properties website.
Posted by: william at June 1, 2007 3:30 PM
This is a very large bedroom; everyone has to ALWAYS bring their own taste to a home. To the person who does not like canopy for whatever reason, then that is your problem... (Add your own taste). In the mean while, I do not know of anyone who will bid on a house based on the picture and a piece of furniture that will be removed from the house. How stupid is that comment?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 3:30 PM
3:10, no I meant Midwood, not Maple. Sorry! I was referring to the 2 story brownstone on the second block of Midwood, which was reduced to 899K (same realtor). I also saw the Maple street one you're talking about, which sold for around 725K and was indeed far too close to Flatbush. I have a strict 10 houses from Flatbush rule when it comes to PLG. As for this one, honestly it seems to be me that prices are down from a year ago in Lefferts Manor/PLG and that this one is just overpriced for the current market. I bet it'll sit for awhile. But you never do know.
Posted by: dj at June 1, 2007 3:31 PM
Regarding kitchen removals. It is a great deal easier to remove a kitchen than to put one in. From personal experience.
To remove an extra kitchen simply requires some demolition and clean up. followed by drywall and floor patching. Gas and water hookups are simply closed off behind the new wall. You could probably pay some guys $500 for the demo. Another crew $500 for the clean up and waste removal. And a third crew about one thousand for drywall, patching and some floor work. And no, these are not underestimated prices. They are real market prices. For more expensive tastes the prices increase accordingly for anything like molding, ceiling work or new lighting. But not that much more. considering the price of the houses involved. An extra kitchen that needs to be demo'd should not be a dealbreaker by any stretch, simply a minor inconveninece.
Posted by: Antoine Roquetin at June 1, 2007 3:38 PM
It's not a stupid comment, 3:30pm. Where have you been? There are entire businesses that have been formed in recent years, and TV shows devoted solely to how to present your house in its best light to buyers. Plus it's a slower market as everyone knows. Who on earth says "no" to advice telling them to present their house better? It's not that the house won't sell to nobody if you don't do the work, but you most definitely can get fewer people looking at the house thus fewer offers. Which is what I said, not no offers but fewer offers. Read posts more carefully before you insult people and call them stupid. THAT's stupid, frankly.
Lastly, that bed has nothing to do with taste. It's too dang big for that bedroom, period. You saying on Brownstoner the bedroom is large - how will people know that who haven't read this thread? Buyers get very little time to look at open houses on a Sunday. Many open houses are at the same time of the day. They narrow their choices based on the photos in the listing. Trust me, I've been there, we just bought a house. We never managed to get to more than 3 open houses on a Sunday.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 3:51 PM
Fully agree with Antoine. Why are people so afraid of removing a kitchen? Ever held a hammer in hand?
If you want new wood floors to replace the linoleum, remove the drop ceiling and restore the ceiling, etc., then you are talking about typcial remodeling costs but removing a third kitchen if necessary to satisfy the appraiser or eliminate dangerous toys for the kids is simple and not expensive.
When buying, word the contract to require the removal of the kitchen at owner's expense if required by appraiser.
Posted by: Andrew from PS at June 1, 2007 3:54 PM
DJ - prices have been strong in PLG this spring. BHS's Midwood St. house is 2/3 the size of the Lincoln Road house and needs much more work. Also, it's being sold by BHS agents who don't usually sell in the neighborhood. That price decrease represents lack of broker skill.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:08 PM
What, 4:08? BHS has all the top, record-breaking sales in the neighborhood. They also get the majority of listings in the nabe. Everybody in PLG who follows this stuff knows it. Look it up, the stats are available to the public. I'm not a broker, but my broker last year was with BHS and we'll use them again.
Jeez, what a completely transparent post by a bitter competitor.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:18 PM
Two of the most committed, longtime homeowners in PLG are BHS brokers, including the broker who has the Lincoln Rd house who has sold plenty plenty houses in PLG.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:20 PM
I saw the house on Midwood. The problem there is that the owners have put no effort into helping their house show well. The paint job is poor, the floors are dull and could really use a buffing, and half completed projects turn off buyers. Put a plant or two on the deck people!
People need to make an effort, especially when they haven't updated the kitchen or bathroom.
On top of all this, the broker doesn't have a clue about the neighborhood.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:22 PM
4:08, I disagree with that assessment. I've seen both the Midwood and this Lincoln house and the Midwood seemed to be in better shape to me. Yes, it is 2/3 the size of the Lincoln, but the house is nicer and the block is better. As I said before, for my money the Lincoln is not worth 200K more. If it takes a lot of "broker skill" to sell a house at the asking price, then the asking is too high. If the market were strong, the house would have sold at the original 925K asking--which is what similar houses have sold for in the past. The Lefferts Manor market was strong in early spring, when most of the houses that had sat for a year suddenly got sold, but there has been a considerable and obvious decline in the last month.
Posted by: dj at June 1, 2007 4:26 PM
The broker comments refer to the specific salesperson, not BHS.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:27 PM
It's the brokers who are selling the Midwood Street house that aren't the neighborhood's top producers, Charles.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:35 PM
2nd st house = 17.50
2nd st lot = 17.50
seems like it fits. look it up.
Posted by: anon at June 1, 2007 5:48 PM
It seems pretty short-sighted to me to pass on a house because a bed is placed at an awkward angle, or there aren't plants on the deck or the paint job needs touching up. The bed and the plants will be gone at closing, and who moves into a new place and DOESN'T paint anyway?
Sure, it behooves a seller to stage their house well, but as a buyer that certainly isn't what I'm looking at. I want to see a house with good bones, good flow, good mechanicals, etc. I'll do my own painting and put my own plants on the deck, thanks.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 6:16 PM
Well, I'm not sure what you mean by the bed being at an angle, but having a house that doesn't look cared for is a turnoff to most buyers. It is simply hard to see beyond partially stripped woodwork and grungy looking rooms. a buyer needs to be able to picture themselves sitting on that deck, and when it looks neglected and empty it simply isn't appealing.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 6:38 PM
Oh! my God people, find something to do; perhaps read a book or go out and visit these houses at open houses, perhaps all of you would starting writing more accurately, rather than to just assume.
Have a good weekend all of you!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 8:30 PM
4:22, I'm with you. I also saw the Midwood house and it looked like crap. I was sort of shocked, actually, and I don't shock easily.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 9:25 PM
macon between throop and marcus garvey (BS listing) is one of the best blocks in BS outside the Historic boundaries. wide, one-way street, lots of trees, lovely vibe and close to the C and the A.
Posted by: anon at June 2, 2007 6:00 AM
The Macon house is across the street from a church but it is a beautiful landmarked street.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 2, 2007 12:06 PM
At the risk of being slammed as a Broker (I'm NOT), one of my neighbors is having an Open House this Sun. at 270 Stuyvesant betw. Jefferson and Putnam. It's a stunning house and worth a look. My only reason for this is that I would like to see a great family get this home and not a developer wannabe. The broker is Urban View Realty and they have a few pics on their site of the place.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 2, 2007 12:25 PM
One correction to Zeebee's comment - all the way up top. The 2nd St brownstone is currently being used as a One Family. However it is a legal two Family (not a three Family).
Posted by: Anon at June 2, 2007 2:26 PM
Hey 12:25, nothing in this market is worth anything MORE than a quick look.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 2, 2007 3:40 PM
i think you mean anything you take more than a quick look at is gone within a few days or a couple weeks max, if it's decent.
that's been mine and a few other people's experience i know.
Posted by: anon at June 2, 2007 6:06 PM
6:06, that has not been my exprience lately. i think it depends on what neighborhoods and what price range you are looking at. Some are "hot" and some are definitely not.
Posted by: dj at June 2, 2007 6:48 PM
We live around the corner from the Macon property (we are on Putnam between marcus garvey/sumner and throop). It is a GREAT block! Tree lined, kids playing and a good sense of community (our street and that one). Thompkins is growing with boutiques and shops and restaurants...
Posted by: Brooklynisis at June 3, 2007 12:11 PM
I really like the Macon house, it's beautiful..... requardless of bed placement. IMHO it's still overpriced by 100-125K.
Anyone who's turned off merely by a picture of an ill placed bed isn't likely shopping in Bed Sty to begin with.
Posted by: ImNotYourDaddy at June 3, 2007 12:27 PM
DJ,
Just a few weeks ago, Brownstoner featured as a HOTD 52 Midwood Street, which was listed by owner for $1.525. It sold in a matter of days, for $150K above asking, and I believe set a new record for the neighborhood. Point being, I'm not sure I would say prices are down in PLG, at least not at the upper end of the spectrum.
The pace maybe has slowed a bit, but I think that's only a function of what's currently for sale. Most of the homes listed now are either a bit on the small side, need some work, or maybe aren't in an ideal location. That said, this one on Lincoln and the two story on Midwood both seem to have some charming features. And Lincoln is especially appealing for anyone who doesn't want to return it to a single family and needs the rental unit to offset a mortgage. I would guess both will sell before July 4th, and at close to asking price.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 3, 2007 7:43 PM
7:43, I am well aware of 52 Midwood, which is why I said "The Lefferts Manor market was strong in early spring." Since then, there has been a definite drop in interest. I've been at the open houses and have chatted with other buyers and the general feeling is that area is overpriced in comparison to other options. Perhaps the difference is in the mid-range versus high-end (52 Midwood was certainly the nicest house I've ever seen in LM and in the very best location), but the houses currently on the market run a pretty big range, from 899K to 1.2M. And of course there is the annual drop in interest in LM once the weather gets hot and the lioterers start hanging out on all the street corners. I should know better than to bet on the market, but nontheless I'd bet that the current crop of offerings sell for well under asking. We'll see...
Posted by: dj at June 4, 2007 11:02 AM
It's not that PLG is overpriced. It's still priced under other neighborhoods. It's because of that confusing range of prices you mention dj. Plenty people do look at houses in PLG but are not sure what they're supposed to consider a good deal. The inventory is low, not a lot on the market at any given time AND on top of it what's on the market are so distinct from one another. Whether it's size or it's inside the LM blocks or not, or it's the date the house was built b/c the area is eclectic. We went inside an open house this weekend out of curiosity, and ended up answering a lot of questions for a woman who had come from elsewhere to look at the house. When it came to whether the house was priced accurately or not, we had no idea either! And not because we thought it was too expensive. It's just a funny thing that way.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 11:28 AM
I don't think the range of prices in LM/PLG is "confusing" at all. Look at BHS's listings for Brooklyn Heights right now--townhouses range from 2.5M to 8M. By comparsion, if the top of the LM market is 1.55, then there should be townhouses for well under a million. I think that many LM houses are way overpriced because the owners say "that 4 story, mint-condition, totally renovated house with all of its original details and central AC sold for 1.5, so my unrenovated, much small, much less appealing house should sell for close to that." Really, if the top of the market is around 1.5 then the houses currently priced at 1.2 should be about 1M.
Posted by: dj at June 4, 2007 12:03 PM
But you're saying that doesn't happen in any other neighborhood, dj? It's going on all over Brooklyn. It's what everyone here points out all the time, over and over. It does happen, and it might be silly, but it's hardly unique to PLG. And how else do prices in any nabe go up? But by a seller asking more than others have asked, for similar properties? Again, here we see this anti-capitalist mentality here on brownstoner. This is reality. People will try and make money where there are opportunities to do so. However much it might offend all you socialists.
Anyway, we did see that the house at 181 Midwood dropped from $925,000 to $899,000. Might be worth attempting a lowball offer. What price range to you mean when you say "well under a million?" If it's less than $850,000 that's probably unrealistic for about anywhere in historic Brooklyn for a brownstone, wherever it's located.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 12:25 PM
There's nothing socialist in my comment at all. My point is that in all other Brownstone neighborhoods there is a HUGE range of prices for brownstones. But in LM the range is miniscule because people compare their home to the top of the market, not to similar homes. Of course everyone will price their house higher than the last similar one, that is assumed. But it is absurd to price a far inferior home at just 20-30% below the top of the local market.
Posted by: dj at June 4, 2007 12:54 PM
I saw the Macon house on Sunday and thought the original detail was beautiful, but it is certainly not in move in condition. Location is great. Did anyone else see it? I think it's overpriced, but I am new to the market, so i'd love to hear some second opinions.
Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 1:31 PM
But with such a limited inventory of old houses all over Brooklyn, dj, a seller might actually be pricing not just based on properties in his own neighborhood (though of course that's the most relevant comp) but based on properties in other neighborhoods. Brooklyn is a unique market that way. (It's what's dumb about all the catty competitive attacks on various neighborhoods - people who want their house value to go up should WANT the property values to do well in nearby neighborhoods.) If in more gentrified neighborhoods it gets to where you can't even get a shell of a brownstone for less than $1.5 million, then it's going to drive up prices though it seems artificially, in the other neighborhoods. Maybe even without multiple bids. Everybody's houses, all of us, are connected. Simply because of this, which is relatively new trend for buyers - there is such huge huge interest in having a house instead of an apartment/condo now. And people are being priced out entirely of certain neighborhoods for houses. Then it gets people thinking more openly about other areas of Brooklyn.
Every single neighborhood seeing improvements now, all of them, have Park Slope to thank. As hot as say, Clinton Hill is now, please, nobody buying a house 5 years ago would have chosen CH over Park Slope if they could afforded the same size house in Park Slope.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:03 PM
But the top of the market isn't $1.525 --- 52 Midwood went for substantially above asking and ultimately sold for $1.675. Real estate agents in the area have guessed it could have gone for $1.8 with a broker, and the fact that there were offers so quickly after it was listed in the Times, and for so much more than asking price, seems to suggest that the ceiling potentially was not reached with that property.
Brown Harris has that smaller house on Midwood II one block away now for sale for roughly half that price at $899K, which, considering the size (two floors and an English windowed basement compared with 52's four floors and an entirely submerged basement), seems like a pretty fair markdown and also demonstrates a good amount of range in the neighborhood.
Also, perhaps sometime can explain this to me, but I don't quite understand why people keep trumpeting summer's effect on the neighborhood. I see no radical change on the sidewalks now that the warm weather has arrived. There seems to be the same mix of people that drew me to the area, and no more loitering than I witnessed when I first arrived in PLG late last year.
Frankly, all this trepidation and reading of tea leaves about the summer weather's effect on real estate prices in PLG seems more than a little absurd. If another spectacular place like 52 came on the market tomorrow, it would sell just as quickly, and at just as high a price.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 6:31 PM
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