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June 4, 2007

House of the Day: 125 2nd Place

This four-story, three-family brownstone at 125 2nd Place in Carroll Gardens just hit the market last week with an asking price of $1,995,000. It appears to be in okay shape, though the lack of kitchen and bathroom photos can be a red flag; in addition the 17-foot width will probably be a negative to some buyers. Another consideration is the fact that the house is two lots away from the proposed Scarano development at the corner of 2nd Place and Smith. (Speaking of which, we stopped by yesterday only to find that all the protest flyers and posters had been removed from the site. Photos on the jump.) Anyway, there was an open house yesterday so we'd be interested to hear some more color on what kind of shape the house is in and what the locals think of the asking price.
125 2nd Place [Irongate Properties] GMAP P*Shark

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It's right around the corner from the subway so there are a lot of people walking by all day long. On the other hand, it is a real short walk to the subway. Wide block with front gardens and lots of light. Doesn't seem like a particularly special place but the price seems about right.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 1:38 PM

Well it does have a "chief's" kitchen so it must be quite grand.

Posted by: Paul at June 4, 2007 1:39 PM

Isn't this adjoining the development site? (and it is 16 1/2 not 17' wide).
In end, new building will be probably be a plus because an open parking lot isn't too pretty next door/ and never mind all the litter blowing from the 'plaza'.
But whenever going to excavate next to foundation - bound to be a bit nervous.
As far as price? mechanicals are probably very good, but visuals inside not great. I say $1.8 to $1.9 - but hard sell with pending construction.

Posted by: petebklyn at June 4, 2007 1:40 PM

This does seem to be right next to the empty lot, not one away. Is 1.8 (as some of you say) really the going rate for a 16.5 footer in Carroll Gardens? I thought 1.8 meant excellent, move-in condition. I also noticed an Open House on Carroll St. off of Court for a narrow brownstone at 2.5 million. It seems like neighborhood houses recently made a huge jump in price and I wonder if that's just brokers stretching, or really the market.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:14 PM

Also, to add to previous comment above -- I don't think this is really a 16.5 ft. lot -- I think the broker must have measured inside. I think houses with 3 windows across (as opposed to 2) are generally around 18 feet at the narrowest. Not that you can fault the broker for being honest to a fault, but I look at lot size (assuming house takes up full width of lot) to make comparisons, not interior measurements.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:19 PM

It doesn't really quite look middle class from the pictures, does it? Looks a little dumpy and sad although a couple of hundred thousand dollars could perk it right up.
This is a bargain, and the beauty part is that nobody would ever guess you were really rich if you lived here so you would not need to worry about identity theft or anyone stealing your
art.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:24 PM

seems like a reasonable price compare to the 1st place condos and the soon-to-be launched 127 4th place condos

Posted by: hola at June 4, 2007 2:26 PM

shark says 16.67 ft x 45 ft and 3000 sq ft, I'm inclined to believe it.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:26 PM

The Carroll Gardens market is getting these prices, especially move-in condition properties. I recall the HOTD on DeGraw Street. The "blue" house that is in contract for over $2.65M.

The CG market is strong. I think people see it as a reasonable comparable to Central/South Park Slope. Same amenites, resturants, shops etc... except Park Slope has the park and Carroll Gardens has the shorter commute.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:28 PM

Protest flyers were back up this morning when I got on the train, with waterproofing!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:41 PM

2:19, that's actually not true re: the windows. there are plenty of 16-17 footers out there with three windows across (usually 30 inches each). (i don't know the width of this particular property, just sayin' you can't judge by the windows.)

Posted by: z at June 4, 2007 2:46 PM

really amazing if those 127 4th place condos go for the ask. i used to live on the block and am a big fan but the above-ground subway means you are living next to a loud, dirty train that will never go away, become gentrified, etc. which meant if you lived on the block you paid a substantial discount for the mess and noise. no more, apparently.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:19 PM

Don't know what you are talking about Annon 2:47 but carroll Gardens is getting these prices and much more than that. The area is hot and not only that It has never ever been Bad . So unless you are against Great schools Ps:58 and great resturants and great friendly people and low if any at all crime then you are right. House should easly sell i would say.No brainer. Mr.B you have to open up a little more to carroll gardens i think you are to involved with Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 5:53 PM

A much skinnier (2-window) house across the street was on the market for $1.8 (I think) a few months ago and went into contract very quickly. $2m seems like a slight bargain for this, esp. set up as a duplex + 2 floor throughs. Except that it's next to a year-long construction project. (Vita is trying to get $5m for the corner brownstone at carroll and court. Crikey. Especially with all that bad karma from being a pet funeral home. Big qi-drain.)

Posted by: dbrown at June 4, 2007 5:58 PM

Forget the train, the real noise is from the cars and trucks running through Carrol Gardens enroute to and from the bridge. Other than that one of the very best neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

Posted by: NIccolo' Machiavelli at June 4, 2007 6:05 PM

trust me, the train is a problem if you live directly next to it, as the new buyers at 127 4th place will be.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 6:55 PM

OK, so those of you that think this is a reasonable price -- will that Carroll St. brownstone (Brooklyn Bridge) get 2.5 million?

I'm a CG brownstoner owner myself - I just think prices seemed to have jumped tremendously in the last 6 months, and I am very surprised. I mean, people are saying this house is "not particularly special", but still could go for close to $2 million.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 6:56 PM

I was at the open house and the pictures on Irongate's website don't do it justice. Owners duplex has 3 bedrooms and 2 full baths, with beautiful gardens out back, barbecue grill hooked into the house gas line (no propane tanks) and rubber matted play area out back for our 2 kids (5 and 2) I'd say it's a steal. Especially since the place across the street (132 2nd Place) recently went for $1.85 million and needs to be totally gutted.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 8:21 PM

Okay, wasn't 132 2nd Place that 25 x 50 building (and was it even 5 floors?) If so, that isn't a very good comparison with a 17-footer, even if it did need a total gut.

Not that this couldn't be a fine home. But, how did they get 3 bedrooms out of the narrow duplex? There's no floor plan on the site, Anon. 8:21pm, so what is the layout? Thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 9:29 PM

bubble bubble toil and trouble

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 9:58 PM

There's an extension on the back, so I guess that's how they fit in 3 bedrooms. Master bedroom is HUGE! and easily fits a king bed and 2 dressers. The 2 others are average size, I'd guess 12x12. I wish we could afford it.

Posted by: Anonymous 8.21 at June 4, 2007 11:11 PM

But don't each of the other bedrooms have to be only 8.5 feet wide (or 9 feet and 7 feet) because of the narrowness of the house? Are 2 bedrooms on 1 floor and a 3rd bedroom on a different floor? I'm just surprrised because even with 20 footers, I haven't seen a good 3-bedroom configuration on one floor (usually more like 2.5).

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 11:56 PM

Not to be too snarky, but you can attach your gas grill to the house for about 12 bucks...

Posted by: anon at June 5, 2007 12:21 AM

This Place is too expensive. Not even 2 years ago floors were being sold out of brownstones for $250,000 a piece. What has changed? Have New Yorkers suddenly gotten raises that doubled their salaries?
Are New Yorker's buying these places?

If you could truly afford this space why would you spend all that money on this property. Lets not think about the quick sell, or the potential of rent, but as a home, would you think the price is worth it for your home? That is all I'm asking. If you think about what you could do for your family and friends and still get yourself a decent place that makes you happy for that price then you wouldn't buy that place.

Posted by: Drew at June 5, 2007 1:29 AM

Have to admit my husband and I just started looking at brownstones. (We currently own a loft in DUMBO.) To date, we've viewed about 20 properties, and this was by far the dumpiest we've seen in the 2 to 2.5 million range. The whole house was noticeably tilted to the right, and the neighbor next door keeps a pigeon coop with enough birds to nest on every available perch on the block. No thank-you . . .

Posted by: JustLooking at June 5, 2007 8:59 AM

Anon 11:56 - The bedrooms are all on the parlor floor. A lot of brownstones waste space with a large entryway on the parlor floor, where the tenants enter. They've cut that space in half, so the tenants enter and go strait upstairs, and included that extra space in the owner's duplex, so it's a true 3 bedroom. Very nice feature in this price range.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 9:30 AM

I'm the owner so let me answer a few questions. There is no noise from the train. It's still underground on this side of the street so you don't hear it. The pigeon coop next door is kept clean and never been a bother to any of the neighbors. New kitchen and bath. Pristine, move in condition. The woman who said the house was dumpy and tilted, must have taken serious halucinogens that day.

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 9:44 AM

Owner, thank you for chiming in. You have a very nice house, and I'm sure you will get a fair price.

However, I still don't understand Anon 9:30am's post about it being a true 3-bedroom. Even if the entryway is only 3 feet (which it doesn't appear, since you have a nice wide doorway), how do you get 3 bedrooms out of that space? Usually what you get is 2 bedrooms, with 2 windows each, and a 3rd room which is the width of one window only. You can definitely get a crib or twin bed in it, but it is a very small bedroom. Which is fine, just didn't understand the previous poster's comment that the master bedroom was huge and the other 2 bedrooms "average" size at 12 x 12.

Also, you should ask Irongate to post photos of the new kitchen and bath. The photos they have up don't really show off the interior to any advantage.

But, thanks again for posting, and good luck to you.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 11:41 AM

I think you're thinking that one bedroom is in the front of the house and the other 2 are in the back. Instead, all 3 rooms are in a line along one wall, with the staircase along the other wall and a hallway in the center. The middle room has no windows. Instead it has swinging doors opening into the front bedroom, which we use as an office.

I told Irongate that their photos suck and asked them to post the photos that I took, which really show off the house.

As for the price, that's the going rate now. Everyone wants an owner's duplex plus 2 rentals for the income. High demand, low supply, prices go up - simple economics.

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 12:32 PM

Thanks owner for update. My only quibble is counting the middle room (with no window) as a 3rd bedrooom. Of course, people can use it as such, but in terms of 3 "true" bedrooms, as an earlier poster said, an interior room doesn't really fit the definition.

I always thought the big spenders (people with $2 million to spend on a brownstone) wanted a triplex and 1 rental (I know that's what we'd like to find in the neighborhood), and those seem more rare than the duplex plus 2 rentals.

But, I'm a big fan of the neighborhood, and given that a 1200 squ foot condo of the day is nearly 1.2 million, perhaps this is a good buy, I just think the entire market seems way over priced.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 1:34 PM

For a room to be counted as a bedroom it must have 2 exits, either door or window (fire code). The middle room has swinging doors that exit into the front bedroom so it's considered a bedroom. My daughter has been in there for 4.5 years and doesn't seem to mind that there's no window. In fact, she gets less street noise and doesn't get awakened by the sun in the morning.

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 2:27 PM

I apologize for my previous comments, owner. I'm sure the 200 pigeons living next door have impeccable manners, and wouldn't dream of pooping on your sills.

Posted by: JustLooking at June 5, 2007 2:27 PM

JustLooking -
I've been in this house for 12 years, and never had a problem with bird poop on my sills, awning or backyard. The 75 year old owner is actually out there every morning at 6am cleaning the coop so there's no smell. He lets them out 2 or 3 times a day to fly around, and it's nice to see the whole flock fly in big circles until he whistles and they come home.

Some of us find this to be part of the old world charm of Carroll Gardens. If you don't think so, maybe you should stay in DUMBO.

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 2:39 PM

Is that true about the bedrooms? I always thought the legal definition of a bedroom was that it had a window and closet (but I admit I have no expertise and could be wrong). By those definitions I've seen lots of 4-bedroom duplexes. But I agree that you can easily sleep a child in such a room and I know many people who do with no problems at all. But I still wouldn't call that a true 3-bedroom, sorry, even if it is legally the case.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 2:40 PM

ps to owner -- as one CG resident to another, why are you selling? Are you staying in the 'hood?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 2:42 PM

Unfortunately, we're not staying in the neighborhood. We're moving to CT for my husband's work. I'll miss this place ;-(

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 3:02 PM

My husband and I were tenants in this building, and had a wonderful experience. The pigeon coop really is well-maintained and the block, even with the pedestrian traffic from the subway, is very quiet.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 5:51 PM

New pictures are now on Irongate Properties website. I think they show off the house much better.

Posted by: OWNER at June 5, 2007 7:21 PM

« Condo of the Day: Price Cut at The Vermeil Monday Blogwrap »

June 4, 2007

House of the Day: 125 2nd Place

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