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June 27, 2007
Broad Support for Domino Designation at LPC Hearing
At the Landmarks hearing for the Domino Sugar Factory, perhaps the Brooklyn waterfront's most iconic structure, there was almost unanimous agreement among preservationists, neighbors and the developers themselves that the exterior of the refinery building (which is actually three adjoining buildings known as the Filter House, the Pan House and the Finishing House) should be preserved. It turns out that the interior will have to be completely gutted, as the existing structure is not strong enough to support residences and the spacing of the massive columns is prohibitively tight. Only one group, Churches United, seemed lukewarm on preservation, urging LPC instead to focus on envisioning a time when "factory owners live side by side with factory workers.” Though LPC won't vote until later in the summer, the designation of the refinery seems almost assured; the biggest remaining issue will be whether the Waterfront Preservation Alliance and others can convince LPC to include more of the complex, namely the southern-most brick building that is substantially similar in its design to the refinery. Preservation of the Domino sign itself also remains up in the air.
History and Homes May Mix at the Brooklyn Waterfront [NY Times]
Landmarks Commission Discusses Fate Of Domino Sugar Factory [NY1]
Domino Refinery Sign May Be at Risk [am NY]
UPDATE: Domino LPC Hearing [WPA]
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Comments
A waste of taxpayer time and money! The LPC and the Preservationist Nazi camp needs to be stopped before they throw (i.e., condemn) the entire Brooklyn waterfront into perpetual mediocrity!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 9:46 AM
Hey, 9:46, this landmarking is a D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L!
Posted by: Anon at June 27, 2007 10:01 AM
It seems to me that without the Domino Sugar sign, I wouldn't recognize that building. They should keep the sign, even if it's condos.
Posted by: chip at June 27, 2007 10:20 AM
Are there other photos that show more of this "architectural gem" because I'm not convinced there's anything of merit here. I'm no architectural historian, but this thing looks like a heap of trash...particularly that stunning building on the right in the photo above. It looks like an abandoned air-traffic-control tower plunked on top of a ramshackle German middle-school...
Posted by: AJ at June 27, 2007 10:31 AM
since when did that factory go out of use? i feel like it was still in operation in the 90s... could that be right?
Posted by: anon at June 27, 2007 10:35 AM
Domino only closed up shop in 2004.
Posted by: WBer at June 27, 2007 10:38 AM
Go look at it from the Kent Avenue side. The design of the refinery is much easier to see from there.
Posted by: Brownstoner at June 27, 2007 10:42 AM
Frankly, it looks like crap. I can understand wanting to hold onto nice bits of history, but this is a dump, and an eyesore. Even Domino must be surprised at the efforts going into preserving that dump. Sorry, but thats how I see it.
Posted by: Shaun at June 27, 2007 10:57 AM
from what I read there are 3 buildings in the complex up for landmarking. I'm guessing not the one with the sign.
Would be great for some 'up close' shots of the buildings, because this view is not too convincing.
Posted by: petebklyn at June 27, 2007 11:01 AM
AJ - The designated (or proposed to be) building is buried behind a bunch of other buildings in the photo above. Its the building with the tall smokestack, which is much better seen from Kent Avenue right now. (The developer's plans would demolish everything in front of the refinery on the water side, so the refinery would regain a place of prominence.)
The other buildings that are being talked about are also not shown in this photo. The oldest are the building Brownstoner discussed, and another very small building that is also buried behind the buildings in the photos above. The other building that gets mentioned a lot is the "stunning" building on the right with the sign attached to it.
WPA has a lot more photos of the site (http://www.waterfrontalliance.org/domino/), you can also see a lot by searching for Domino on flickr.
Posted by: WBer at June 27, 2007 11:04 AM
If you go to the waterfrontalliance site mentioned above, you'll see that the refinery is a beautiful building that just needs some TLC. Cleaned up, it will be the best thing on the waterfront!
Posted by: GHB at June 27, 2007 11:19 AM
Thanks for the links, WBer. Having now seen the other pics, I am even more perplexed at why so much is going into this preservation effort. Having just done the Flatbush victorian house tour, I am certainly a big fan of original interior details. However, the interior of the Domino is a dump. The only saving grace of the place is the exterior brickwork. Everything else is a total dump. How much would one have to spend to convert that place into desirable housing, versus starting anew? Only the economics could persuade me at this point.
Posted by: Shaun at June 27, 2007 11:19 AM
Well, Landmarks is only designating the exterior. Like the owners of the Flatbush Victorians, the owner of this Victorian factory can do what they want on the interior.
The Times article, linked above, has some mention of the difficulties the owners face in converting the interior. Basically, much of the interior is equipment, some of it many stories high, and the renovation would require removing all of that and putting in a new "building" within the building. This is done fairly frequently, and the owner has already committed to it, so it must make some sense to them economically.
Posted by: WBer at June 27, 2007 12:02 PM
Please, we can build floating islands on the sea, as in Dubai and other countries, we can recreate entire cities and pyramids in Las Vegas, and build complicated structures like Gehry's Bilbao museum, but we can't figure out how to break down large industrial equipment, and reconfigure into apartments and other spaces, a 19th century brick factory building in Brooklyn?
This is the perfect opportunity for the owner/developer to have someone design a first class adaptive re-use and new construction complex. It could showcase the now trendy "green" reuse of materials - the old structure, as well as the design of new structures that can combine living/retail/public spaces.
It would be a showplace for the riverfront, Brooklyn, Wmsburg/Greenpoint, the state and city, as well as architect and developer. It would provide needed mixed income housing and hopefully incorporate some kind of museum of industry in a cool Chelsea Market/Tate Modern kind of way. Win/win for everyone. If I was an architect, I'd be banging on doors to get a shot at that opportunity.
Posted by: Preservationista at June 27, 2007 12:29 PM
i'm sorry, but this is no penn station or singer building, these buildings are just a heap of crap from all angles, just tear it down and clean up this waterfront. some things are not worth fighting for, this is one of them
Posted by: josh at June 27, 2007 1:32 PM
"Would be great for some 'up close' shots of the buildings, because this view is not too convincing."
That's my problem! This is the VIEW that will be seen by the entire world from the waterfront!! This is the dumbest thing in the world! Horrible!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 1:42 PM
No, this isn't Penn Station or the Singer Building, but that is because this neighborhood and most everything built in it was for the working class, for industy, and for commerce. The money that allowed New York to be such an economic powerhouse (and to build such great icons like the old Penn Station) was made, in part, here.
For this neighborhood, with its own history and sense of place, this is a landmark. That doesn't mean leaving it alone and empty... but we don't have to tear it all down and building new either. It doesn't have to be such a fight to make this work for everyone involved: the developer who wants to make a buck, affordable housing advocates/ working class residents of the area, the new influx of yuppies looking for condos, families who want waterfront access for their kids, architects looking for an interesting site and a challenging project, and preservationists who want to keep something that reminds the neighbors and all New Yorkers the things helped make the city great (industrial might and the toiling of the people who worked at factories like this one). Why does it have to be all or nothing?? Open your minds a little, guys.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 2:05 PM
"Broad Support"?
Brownstoner, I don't necessarily see an immense gathering of preservationist Nazi zealots as an indication of broad public support. How did you come to this conclusion? Who conducted the sampling poll? You?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 2:17 PM
there are many who think that fussy Victorian interiors are hideous and that early industrial architecture, built for function, is far more pleasing. It certainly is the precursor of a modern sensibility. To each his own.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 2:21 PM
HEY 2:17.... READ THE LAST LINE OF THE POST ABOVE YOURS PLEASE.
Preservationists Nazis...
Who are you? Donald Trump?
Affordable Housing Nazis...
Developer Nazis...
Greenspace Nazis...
Why dont we figure out a way to make more than ourselves happy? Why dont we work on something together that can give a little something for everyone?
Jesus.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 27, 2007 2:26 PM
hmmmmm, I like these...
"an abandoned air-traffic-control tower plunked on top of a ramshackle German middle-school...
Frankly, it looks like crap. I can understand wanting to hold onto nice bits of history, but this is a dump, and an eyesore.
these buildings are just a heap of crap from all angles, just tear it down and clean up this waterfront. "
Posted by: Simcha Feldman at June 27, 2007 2:29 PM
Well, if the owner has already committed to the reno plan, the debate is over. Good luck to them.
Posted by: Shaun at June 27, 2007 2:34 PM
Anyone have a link to any renderings or studies of this site? I saw a rafael Vinoly proposal once, but haven't seen anything recently... anyone?
Posted by: S. Will at June 27, 2007 2:49 PM
I dunno 2:17 - maybe the fact that of the 19 people who testified at the Landmarks hearing - including the owner, the owner's engineer, and local affordable housing advocates - every single one supported the LPC designation. I can't speak for Brownstoner, but I would call that pretty broad support. Unanimous, even.
Posted by: WBer at June 27, 2007 2:56 PM
Someone on curbed said it best:
"The white kids in Willamsburg don't want affordable housing being built there"
since I think Dominio was going to be 80/20, it makes an interesting theory....
Posted by: Common Sense at June 27, 2007 4:37 PM
The refinery itself (the big brown building at the back of this photo) is one of the largest pieces of early modern industrial achitecture left standing in the country. And certainly among the largest and best preserved pieces of NYC's fading industrial history. The sugar refinery has been central to the development of this entire area of Brooklyn, and indeed of NYC as a whole, going back into the 19th century. So it is worth saving from both an architectural and historical standpoint. Since the plans for adaptive reuse are apparently already in place, I don't understand why there would be any objection to landmarking this.
Posted by: big al at June 27, 2007 6:32 PM
Since many of the white kids in Williamsburg are stacked like cordwood in their apartments, in order to pay the ridiculous rents, you'd think they'd be happy to see anything that wasn't exclusively for some trust fund baby. Most of them age out of living like college students, get married or significantly attached, and move on up and out, to be replaced by the next group. Like many of the young white kids moving into Crown Heights, Bushwick and Bed Stuy, most of them are renters who eventually move on. That would be an interesting study - to see how long they stay, and where they go next, since that group really are the shock troops of gentrification.
They are not the demographic that is cited in planning affordable housing, however, nor should they be.
Posted by: Sterling Silver at June 27, 2007 6:37 PM
Honestly though who the fuck would want to live in a windowless yellow brick factory?
Posted by: Cam'ron at June 27, 2007 6:49 PM
These buildings are a really beautiful example of industrial architecture to my eyes. I can easily see why the developer wants to keep the facade, although I think it might have been better if the building had been converted into a museum. Perhaps one dedicated to the robber baron era and examining the how the industrial revolution brought the United States from obscurity to share the international stage with the great nation states of the world. Of course, the history of the Sugar Trust would be central to the examination of our history in such a museum.
Posted by: danielk at June 27, 2007 7:50 PM
Is there no reading comprehension here? No one wants to landmark or save the entire factory, especially the newer, and yes, ugly - yellow complex on the right side of the picture. The older structures, as are mentioned above, and in all blogspots, LPC literature, and shown in the links mentioned above, talk about the 3 buildings near the tall smokestack. See WBer's informative post. Most of what you see in the picture above will be gone. Not landmarked. Torn down. OK?
Before jumping all over this as the ugliest thing you ever heard of in life, at least get your facts straight.
Posted by: Preservationista at June 27, 2007 8:43 PM
As one of the white kids living in williamsburg, right now I love that kent st is a little deserted. That when i go down there it is quiet and as serene as a urban area can be. However I also love the old dominican men playing dominos on my block, and hope they never go anywhere. That's actually my biggest fear. The neighborhood getting completely whitewashed like park slope. And I say that as a resident who plans on sticking around for a while, and as a real estate agent, which I am.
Posted by: grand st at June 28, 2007 12:00 AM
Tear the shithole down. only in NY do asshole preservationists get to preserve disgusting old factories.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:11 AM
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