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June 4, 2007

Condo of the Day: Price Cut at The Vermeil

It looks like things ain't going so well over at 133 Sterling Place in Park Slope. Despite having been on the market since the beginning of the year, there are currently 21 unsold units on broker Sandy Biano's listings page (which seems like a lot given that Property Shark says it's only a 17-unit building!). Three of the more expensive ones got big price cuts on Friday but are still far from cheap. There's no doubt that this is a desirable location and that there is a need for family-sized apartments; perhaps there are just fewer families willing to shell out close to $2 million for an apartment when they can go a couple of blocks across Flatbush Avenue and get a house for that price. When we posted about this place back in March, reader comments ranged from "I saw the model apartment and thought it was quite nice" to "I can't get beyond the prices." Presumably more than the model apartment is viewable by now. Has anyone stopped by recently?
133 Sterling Place Listings [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark
Update On The Vermeil [Brownstoner]
Reduced Brooklyn Listings [NateFind]

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I still can't get over the prices.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 12:47 PM

i still can't get over that not one thing has been done to the outside of the building since they went on sale.

except that the corner has become even more derelict and covered with empty booze bottles.

i wish sandy could figure out a way to sell some of these and move it along a bit. hopefully these price cuts will help.

it is indeed a terrific location...super close to q train as well as 2/3.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 12:58 PM

That building provides a fantastic spot for the stoop dudes who are always out yelling and drinking at the two apt buildings directly across the street to smoke pot and pee. Hope the new owners like that. Also seems to be a good bathroom for the Ocean's 8 and Flatbush bar crowd on their way to and from a good pool game.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 1:11 PM

Vermeil! Schlemazl! Hasenpfeffer Incorporated!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 1:23 PM

These are Manhattan prices ! One has to understand that a lot of people are moving to Brooklyn because they get priced out of the city. Why would you buy in this building when you can get the same sqft for your money in the city !!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:01 PM

Awful location and the agents are pretty awful as well. Nasty and unprofessional. No wonder why they are not selling

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:06 PM

because some people PREFER brooklyn!!!!

why is that so incredibly hard for some people to understand. i agree that they are pricey, but after living in manhattan for the last 6 years and now living in park slope, i wouldn't go back for any amount of money.

i'm certainly not the only person that feels that way.

i agree that in the past people moved to brooklyn because it was cheaper. now, more often than not they move because brooklyn is quickly becoming the artistic haven that manhattan once was. and we've got more mom and pop shops, great restaurants, a huge lovely park that trumps central park in my book and a host of other great things.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 2:10 PM

2:10 is 100% right. The Brooklyn vs. Manhattan thing is of the past.

I'll also say the same thing about the condo vs. house debate. There isn't a debate for some people. Some people do not want a house at any price. So the price by itself is the problem. People will definitely spend $1.5 to $2 million for a condo in Brooklyn now and in the future. We'll see more of it. The problem with this development is the units are priced too high per square foot. It's about the size for the price, not the price alone.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:23 PM

Urgh, I meant to say at 2:23pm that "the price by itself is NOT the problem".

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:25 PM

2:23 Thing of the past ! Sure whatever makes you happy .... You also probably disagree that real estate is all about location :)
New building in Manhattan priced at $1,500/sqft get sold out before they are even built! How is that size for the price ! It's not about YOU, it's about the majority of people. You might PREFER Brooklyn but you are a minority. Sorry :(

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:33 PM

i definitely prefer Brooklyn, but I also think that the prices are ridiculous. I would not pay $1000 per sq ft to live in the slope.

park slope is getting very crowded and too generic.
i left after owning a house for 6 years to go to a condo Williamsburg. i am in agreement with the fact that lots of people don't want to fool around with old homes. they are a pain in the ass.

got almost 2000 sq ft with a great backyard in a new luxury bldg w/central air, etc... for under $500 per sq ft. love the ameninities in the hood - food, shopping, nightlife. plus, the proximity to manhattan can't be beat. i can walk home from work.

Posted by: condo dweller at June 4, 2007 2:41 PM

hey condo dweller, under $500sqft ? which building is that ?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:45 PM

hey condo dweller, under $500sqft ? which building is that ?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:49 PM

"You might PREFER Brooklyn but you are a minority. Sorry :("

uhhhh....and you are on this website, because.....?????

i think if you ask most people who actually live in brooklyn, that those who prefer brooklyn over manhattan are indeed in the majority.

you want to talk about generic...i'll agree that ps is a little bit this way (although not really on 5th ave) but have you ever been to the upper west, east, midtown, chelsea before???

manhattan has quickly become far more generic than any neighborhood in brooklyn.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 2:52 PM

condo dweller is trying to get more people to buy all of the hideous new construction condos on williamsburg's waterfront.

no thanks.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:00 PM

roebling square
not everything was that low per sq ft
my unit was mayber under priced.. also bought it almost a year ago.

much new stuff is now listing at higher altho 55 Berry might have some decent priced units.

the waterfront new properties are much higher.

there were some deals on the other side of the BQE near Graham Ave. not sure now.

lots of nice new places coming up in greenpoint - especially around McCarren

Posted by: condo dweller at June 4, 2007 3:00 PM

if you call those shacks they are putting up around mccarren "nice" we definitely have a different opinion of nice. these vermeil condos might be expensivo, but we are talking about apples and oranges. these are high end in a great location.

and there are probably few people who live in brownstone brooklyn who really want to live in either williamsburg or greenpoint. i could be wrong.

i love all of brooklyn including those two hoods but you couldn't pay me to live up there.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:05 PM

Actually, 2:33pm, when I make comments on real estate I base it on what I observe of OTHER buyers and what's going on in the market. Not just my personal opinions. Obviously that's not the case with you, but don't project that on me.

I already bought a house last year, thank you, and yet being an owner of a house I can totally utterly completely understand why someone would prefer a condo over a house. We love having a house, but please, the only people who don't understand why someone else's lifestyle would do better with a condo is someone who does NOT actually own a 100 year old house! Like what about someone who has a very busy job, or spends half the year in another state or country? 100 year old houses are high maintenance. Be prepared to put work and time into it. Lots. Read the thread on Forum from last week where a bunch of people confessed in a very honest and helpful way how difficult it is to own an old house. It was amazing. You never see such honesty instead of posturing, on brownstoner. Forum of course being the section of this site who actually do own houses, not just talk about them.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:14 PM

Anon 2:52 ..

I actually do live in Manhattan ... You take things too personally I think ! I was just trying to explain why condos priced at Manhattan prices are not selling well in Brooklyn. Someone who is ready to lay down $2.1mln for 1781sqft wants convenience and location... Whether you want it or not, real estate prices are driven by location ... This was a general statement, nothing against you or people who do actually prefer Brooklyn. Take it easy my friend. The real estate remain a market ... as emotionally attached as you are to your hood ...:)

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:15 PM

Perhaps the problem is that it really isn't a prime PS location for these prices. I wonder if a better selling strategy might have been to underprice a few of the smaller units to get signed contracts before releasing the bigger ones? My impression on new developments is that no one wants to feel like they overpaid.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:15 PM

what do you consider prime park slope if not 7th ave and sterling right in the middle of the landmarked historic district, ps. 321, two blocks from prospect park, grand army plaza...

expensive, yes. but i happen to think the closer one is to flatbush, without being right on it is considered prime as one is near the Q, 2, 3 trains instead of the god awful F.

part of the reason why some don't like park slope is because if you are down in the numbered streets, it's a hike to the train and a pretty crappy one at that.

i think for the high end condo buyer that this would need to attract, that good access to transportation to manhattan would be top on the list.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 3:21 PM

"I was just trying to explain why condos priced at Manhattan prices are not selling well in Brooklyn."

i suppose the reason why you think i overracted is simply because you don't know what you're talking about. walk 2 blocks from here and you will find richard meier's on prospect park closing in on 75% sold and those apartments are far more expensive than the vermeil. definitely manhattan prices there.

you can not make a generalization about an entire market of condo units in brooklyn based on the vermeil. that's just dumb. these may be some of the more expensive per square foot around, but there are many factors that go into nyc real estate than simply ppsf.

if you know anything about park slope or much of brownstone brooklyn, you'd know that most quality places (of which little comes on the market in the first place) are sold within a matter of days or weeks. that's why this thread on the vermeil is especially noteworthy.

it is the exception as of late.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:28 PM

Though I do think it's a great location, I agree with 3:15pm nobody wants to feel they overpaid. Good point. People pass up good deals (not that these condos are "good deals") all the time for that reason. A bit of nervousness about very small details even, can create or build that worry about overpaying. I thought the kitchen was inadequate in the model at the Vermeil. I've posted that before. For these prices for family size condos people want one of those open layout, giant kitchen family rooms. I personally don't like those, but for that particular space at the Vermeil model, that would have been more appealing to buyers. Right now it's an "eh whatever, it's okay" reaction to the kitchen and bathrooms. The bathrooms had woefully inadequate storage. Which is bad for families. It feels like a summer place. You know? Not year-round, heavy duty kitchen and bathrooms.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:30 PM

Actually 3:28pm I also own 2 townhouses in Park slope (and a few appts in NY) which I rent ... but anyway, as I said before, whatever makes you happy ... I don't want this forum to turn into a heated discussion (and you calling me names :( ...) between you and me and our very different takes about what the real estate MARKET is all about ...
Bottom line, I think these appartments are overpriced which is well reflected by the recent price reduction ... They will sell eventually when the prices are right.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:37 PM

way to backpeddle, 3:37.

i think every single poster on here said they were overpriced. that's not news.

your comments were more about how you didn't think brooklyn prices should be anywhere near manhattan ones, which means to me you need to go visit your two townhouses a little more.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:43 PM

FYI, the Vermeil is not in the P.S. 321 district, whose northern border is Union Street.

Posted by: Park Sloper at June 4, 2007 3:54 PM

FYI, the Vermeil is not in the P.S. 321 district, whose northern border is Union Street.

Posted by: Park Sloper at June 4, 2007 3:54 PM

i'm pretty sure berkeley place is in the ps. 321 district and that's north of union.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:59 PM

Whouah 3:43pm ... pretty agressive too! Listen dude, you clearly don't understand a thing about real estate if you think brooklyn prices should be the same as manhattan prices. fyi, i am in the real estate business and I am doing very very well thank you. I own townhouses, condos in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens and have sold and bought over the years. Anyway, I have 1 answer for you and it is from a NY Observer article below and then I am done with you ! You ...... ..... .. ....
That will clearly prove you WRONG !!!!

The source is NY Observer from May 14, 2007, also available on the realestatebloggers.com:

[......
Manhattan had the highest average sales price of apartments at $1,107,000. Brooklyn was second at $441,000 and Queens followed at $257,000.
The average price per square foot for a cooperative was $664, a rise of seven percent compared to last year. The average price per square foot for condominium rose 19 percent to $791.
The average price per square foot for a Manhattan apartment increased three percent to $1,013. Brooklyn and Queens recorded the next highest prices per square foot for an apartment at $476 and $348 respectively.
The median sales price for a condominium increased in all five boroughs. The Bronx and Manhattan showed the highest percentage increases at 17 percent and 10 percent respectively.

.....]

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:59 PM

i don't think brooklyn prices should be the same as manhattan. i do think they are catching up in the nice areas. and they are....quickly. end of story.

you're a loon.

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2007 4:04 PM

Yes, the 321 boundaries are narrow in the slope. Those buildings are prob. zoned for 282

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 4:07 PM

well i'm not sure after hearing some of the comments that they'd be ideal for families, anyway.

these might appeal more to the young couple, single or maybe just having a first child before school kinda places.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 4:11 PM

this is a little after the fact - but I grew up in manhattan and have lived in brooklyn for 11 years (williamsburg and now carroll gardens) and I would certainly live in Manhattan if I could afford it. Brooklyn certainly has its charms that we have all come to know and love, but the reality is, 20 years ago many of us would have been living in Manhattan because it is simply more convenient.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 4:27 PM

if you live in carroll gardens, you can certainly afford a place in manhattan. might be above 96th street, but it's still manhattan.

unless you're rent controlled/stabilized or something in cg.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 4:32 PM

For family sized apartments you are still too close to Flatbush for my taste (noise, grime) and not in 321. So whypay that much to be on a busy and loud street?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 4:53 PM

3:05pm. not trying to convert anyone to Williamsburg. why would I? i just personally love it, and I have made so many friends since moving six months ago, and my husband and I are having a blast at the bars and restaurants. There are tons of playgrounds for our toddler, and 2 different kids playrooms with cafes for the adults within 4 blks of us. Saturday, we attended a free kids concert at Pete's Candy Store. Great old bar (sure many of you know it). They have this just about every Saturday all summer.

in any case, i was just giving a personal anecdote relevant to the ongoing discussion. obviously, all are free to do whatever they want. i was only speaking about price per sq ft and my slant on the neighborhoods. i sold my slope place for a big profit and could have bought wherever. i really do think that the area is becoming super generic, and i also was tired of the distance to manhattan. manhattan is simply more usable from williamsburg.

also, not sure what you consider a shack. heard from a broker friend (not at elliman), and not invoved in the project, some very good things, about 20 Bayard and a couple of other buildings in Greenpoint. curbed readers trashed my condo complex too, yet when i had it inspected, the inspector was super impressed with the construction.

again, could care less who moves to williamsburg or greenpoint. just presenting my viewpoint. my condo complex was like 95% sold within a couple of months of coming to market, so the buyers are there for williamsburg. think all units but one are now occupied.

fyi: i'm on my 3rd property in Brooklyn (cobble hill, slope, williamsburg), so i do have some experience in the Brooklyn markets.

and a ps: the view from our roof deck doesn't suck either. and no, the toll brothers buildings won't block it.

Posted by: condo dweller at June 4, 2007 5:01 PM

i rather like flatbush. especially near 7th avenue. it's got a lot of what park slope used to have and things it seems people wished still does have.

diversity. in both people and in the retail.

families live all along broadway on the upper west side and plenty of other busy thoroughfares throughout the city, so i can't imagine why flatbush would deter that many folks.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 5:36 PM

http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=972065

Looking at the natefind reduced list, I thought the above was extremely overpriced as well.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 6:06 PM

Of course they are overpriced. And they're not attractive. And there no cornice on the roof (to make a classic b'stoner gripe.) It's too bad. The location is great. The younger park slope crowd (meaning very young families, or even younger, gasp, not wanting families yet) seems to definitely be favoring the north slope- better train access (2/3, Q/B and Atlantic Ave is reasonable when all else fails.) 5th avenue shopping and restaurants are close. The park is still nearby. Prospect Heights and Vandy are nearby. You can walk to see your friends in Boerum Hill, Clinton Hill and Fort Greene. This speaks to why Crunch took over the Flatbush Ave gym, for instance, and why American Apparel opened there. Franny's is over there too.

Many people I speak with who have considered the move or made the move to the Slope aren't really looking in center slope, as it feels old, far from the city, and many think that 321 is overrated and yesterday's news. School-wise, people seem more excited also about south slope with PS 107 and also a younger crowd.

Nothing against classic center slope- it's beautful, but there's definitely been a disconnect between older received attitudes and the reality of what people consider to be prime slope in the last few years.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 6:18 PM

4.27PM. THANK YOU. Here goes my point!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 6:42 PM

good. stay in manhattan. we only want people who love it out here, and there are plenty of people who do as evidenced by this website, gowanuslounge, otbkb, lonely planet, and the host of other people who have noticed how terrific brooklyn is.

Posted by: anon at June 4, 2007 8:20 PM

Richard Meier building is only 20% sold Corcoran is having a very hardtime selling these units. SD of the Vermeil is 282, one of the poorest in the Slope. I hear they are getting nibbles at prices about 15% less than the current asking prices--- Vermeil I mean..

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 8:24 PM

I went to see the model a month ago. My initial thought was that the bathroom tiles and fixtures were so "trendy" that if we bought and then decided to sell the place to move to a house down the road, that everything would be tragically dated. The sliding doors in certain rooms were strange. Nice windows though.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 8:55 PM

PS 282 is not a "poor" school, 8:24pm. Test scores are good and everybody who knows anything about schools considers it an up and comer. SOME people might have a problem with the ethnic diversity at PS 282, that's all.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 8:56 PM

That's exactly precisely what I thought about the bathroom tiles and fixtures, 8:55pm. I thought it was tragically dated already, in fact. And when I asked the realtor if buyers could change the tiles and fixtures in the bathrooms, since the units were selling pre-construction, the realtor said "no" all in a huff and said "these aren't custom bathrooms" like it was a ridiculous question. Well, frankly, if I were spending $1.6 million on a smallish 3BR condo yeah actually, I'd like to choose some of the features myself! Maybe if it were a Richard Meier building it would be an insult to suggest changing elements of the interior design, but I couldn't even name who designed this building. Why couldn't we change the bathroom vanities if we wanted to?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 9:02 PM

8:24,

Richard Meier building is ONLY 20% sold? That's pretty damn good, I think, for a high-priced building that's still under construction and not set to open for what, six more months at least? maybe a year?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2007 12:36 PM

richard meier building is nearly 50% sold.

and it's not opening for 18 more months. maybe 17 now.

love how people just make stuff up on here.

Posted by: anon at June 5, 2007 12:46 PM

Hi, I am a resident of the West Village and recently saw these condos.. Speaking from a manhattan state of mind, I have to honestly say that these condos are by far the best I have seen in Park Slope. I saw the richard Meier building, just not my thing, (I perfer smaller buildings) plus there is nothing over there!! As for the prices at the Vermeil, yes a bit high but If I do decide to move forward with anything in brooklyn, (since alot I've seen is overpriced or not necessarily my taste) I will just simply make an offer that seems right. I don't seem the harm in that!! All I have been reading, besides the bickering back and forth is about how prices have soared. Well I will tell you one thing! Manhattan is only going up, and up! I simply can't afford it, not only an apartment but the lifestyle as well!! ..And for people like myself that would like to expand, Brooklyn has become my closest and only option, and!!!! If more of my kind begin to feel the same, brooklyn is going to be right there and ready for us.. So with that in Mind, I'll want something Nice, and something similar to what I have now, location, lifestyle etc.. I have to honestly say that the Vermeil is by far the closest to what "I" would be looking for and the Richard Meier for others..So for all of you that can't see out of the box. I wish you well, but please stop putting a damper on things that are actually worth the while. And if you don't know the facts, please! keep quiet. you have no idea how annoying it is...

Posted by: Anonymous at July 15, 2007 11:13 PM

Posted by: Anonymous at July 15, 2007 11:14 PM

« New Development: 1142 Bedford Avenue House of the Day: 125 2nd Place »

June 4, 2007

Condo of the Day: Price Cut at The Vermeil

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