« First Rejection by DOB of Minerva II Plans Newsflash: Williamsburg and Greenpoint are Booming »
June 28, 2007
Cobble/Boerum Hill Rumors: Trader Joe's & McD's
It's a big news day in the food department for Cobble and Boerum Hill. This morning, The Brooklyn Eagle broke the news (well, it's still technically a rumor) that Trader Joe's will be moving into the Independence Bank building at Atlantic on Court. No sooner had we read that than a tipster passed on word from a "fairly reliable neighborhood source" that the the Army Navy and Realty storefronts at Smith and Wyckoff (GMAP) were going to be taken over by McDonald's. "If this is true, then, well, it f---ing sucks," groused our man on the inside. Anyone else heard this?
Trader Joe’s Coming to Old Independence Bank [Brooklyn Eagle] GMAP
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/1496
Comments
Awesome! I am so tired of getting on the train to Union Square to shop at Trader Joes. I am so excited! I hope they bring the 2 buck Chuck with them.
Posted by: brooklynite at June 28, 2007 10:49 AM
The old man who ran Tabouli across the street owns the Army/Navy store, as well as the "hipper," out of place, clothing store - Sage. I guess he got sick of running business that never worked?
Posted by: EJC at June 28, 2007 10:52 AM
brooklynite - not sure they can do the Charles Shaw wine at TJ's, given the liquor laws in NYC...
Posted by: EJ at June 28, 2007 10:54 AM
My excitement over TJ's is tempered by the god-awful rumor of McD's.
Hope it's just a rumor.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 10:58 AM
I only walked into Trader Joe's once and was so crowded and line so long I walked out. Hope they won't hurt Sahadi's which is a great store with great bargains. But otherwise sounds interesting/positive. Yet such a beautiful interior wish it could stay a bank.
McD's on Smith? The Army and Navy seems very small space for them - unless took over the realtors space also? Is there enough pedestrian traffic on Smith for them? Usually they are in much more commercial area unless there is parking/drive-thru. Not sure that rumor makes sense.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 10:58 AM
Isn't the Independence Bank way too small for a Trader Joe's?
It may have high celings, but it's really not that large of a footprint.
Does Trader Joe's "do" small Trader Joes?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:09 AM
I would ask the old guy (or his son) that owns Paisanos on Smith. They own the building that houses Starbucks and the corner building that has the realtor and seem to know about most things planned for that block.
Posted by: crouchback at June 28, 2007 11:15 AM
@10:58 AM: The new Balducci's in Manhattan is an old bank building and I think they did a good job with it. Of course it *is* pretty small.....
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:18 AM
11:09 here, with more info.
Property Shark indicates that the Independence Bank is 28,150sf (and shows 65 ft x 137.5 for the building).
For some reason I thought that the usual Trader Joe's was twice that size.
Also, a logistics question:
If this is true, where would the loading dock be for the supply trucks?
On the corner of a busy intersection, or in the parking lot space that Walentas' intends to use to build a new luxury condos building?
Just trying to piece together if this can actually make sense or not.
The delivery trucks for the (Met?) supermarket on the NE corner of Atlantic at Clinton are able to sidle up along the Clinton St side for deliveries, but I think the case is more complicated for such a busy corner (and planned new luxury condos development, adjacent to bank bldg?) as Atlantic and Court.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:25 AM
what worse than McDonalds is a McDonalds express.
Will suck business from the the mix of cafes sprouting up all over smith street. (only because its cheap and quick)
if they have a drive thru they will make a killing on smith street.
generally no place to park in the morning to get breakfast.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:26 AM
11:26 - If you're on Smith for your commute, guessing you drive through the neighborhood from somewhere like Sunset Park or South Slope?
Totally fine, no gripe, just thinking...
If that's the case, there are drive through options in Gowanus and Sunset Park, on the way through the neighborhood. (3rd Ave at 14th st Dunkin/TacoBell, 4th Ave in the 20/30s or even 4th Ave in the Slope)
Smith Street itself (north of 3rd Street, anyway) has been totally impacted and built-out for decades, no room for a drive-through, and it would definitely be out of character, with its surroundings unless it was at corner of 3rd and Smith or um...Public Place (but mind the "special sauce...").
But those would be entirely different battles to wage.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 11:44 AM
I have mixed feelings about Trader Joe's myself (the few times I've been in one, I never like it as much as I expect to), but I do think the neighborhood could use some better grocery options. I'm not holding my breath, though, as this is clearly still a rumor. A local realtor recently told me it's been hard to get supermarkets into any of the newly available retail space around here because they don't have enough basement storage.
Breaks my heart, too, to think about what will happen to the interior of that beautiful bank building... When I lived on the Upper West Side, there was a spectacular old HSBC on 96th and Amsterdam: huge vaulted ceilings, enormous windows, classic row of tellers. The bank moved across the street and a CVS moved in--the outside of the buildling stayed intact, but the inside was destroyed for the drugstore. So sad...
Posted by: StateStreeter at June 28, 2007 11:58 AM
Heh, I wrote 11:44a, and was actually attempting sarcasm re: McDonalds at corner of Smith + 3rd and/or Public Place, in case that didn't come through.
Was serious, however, about plenty of existing drive through options convenient to those coming thru Smith St neighborhood from Slope, Gowanus, Sunset Park, etc.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 12:04 PM
What's funny, or maybe not so, is the former Dagostino on 7th ave and 6th st that is supposedly turning into a bank. It seems that part of the slope could use another supermarket. Maybe one of the realtors could turn into a supermarket?
Posted by: anon at June 28, 2007 12:08 PM
A Trader Joes in the neighborhood is a definitely a net positive. The only other options are Garden of Eden on Montague St and that gross Key Foods on Clinton and Atlantic.
Sahadi's will probably be affected due to their hours more than the TJ offering a better selection of foods. Pacific Green might suffer the most, but i doubt to the point where it goes under though.
The neighborhood has plenty of banks... turning that location that's not a drug store is a boon.
Posted by: grad school at June 28, 2007 12:28 PM
So having options for food is a bad thing? Picking through rotten produce at Associated is tiresome. But they have a full aisle of soda and chips.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 12:33 PM
While i'm indifferent on TJ's, I appreciate what it'll do to my property values!
Posted by: Anon at June 28, 2007 12:37 PM
"Sahadi's frightens me and, really, what kind of "brand identity" is that for "the new Brooklyn" anyway? Sounds a little too "ethnic."
tell me you aren't serious. what frightens you about Sahadi's? the name?Not only has Sahadi's been here for years, the also do quite a lot of community work. Brand Identity for Brooklyn- what trader joe's is Broooklyn? Don't like ethnic? sorry- you missed the whole Aryan race thing.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 12:50 PM
find it very hard to imagine mcd's on smith but as above poster noted, it's not going to have any impact on the local restaurants - and really, is it any better/worse than the standard chinese slop houses on every other block (which i like, btw)?
meanwhile, in actual bonafide news - mancora, a pretty good and nearly ignored peruvian place on smith between warren and wyckoff, seems to have given up the ghost. there's a dob notice on the wall and a quick peek revealed what looks like a complete renno inside.
ok, back to bitching about unknowns!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 1:27 PM
We live in Bed Stuy but own a building on that block of Smith st., and even though it is just a cash cow for us, I hate the thought of a McDonalds there - or anywhere else on the planet for that matter.
Posted by: LivefromBedfordStuyvesant at June 28, 2007 1:31 PM
why are all these skinny hipsters so food obsessed? What do they do, cook and invite their fat friends over to eat it?
Some of these folks look like they eat maybe two olives a day. that's it.
What's the big deal with a "Traders; Joes"? there aren't enough Italian delis and green grocers in the nabe to supply the daily two olives?
Posted by: whoeatsanymore? at June 28, 2007 1:50 PM
Don't be hating the skinnies. They're young. Eventually they will put on some weight like the rest of us... except maybe the vegan runners.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 2:13 PM
where are all the NIMBY folk when you need them? Too pooped from protesting Scarano to fight where it really matters - keeping Evil McD's from blighting the block?
Posted by: deathtoronald at June 28, 2007 2:14 PM
I dunno. Building size is 25 x 44' on Smith. Think restroom, storage, cleanup, cooking areas, sales counter, seating. Not big enough for a McDonalds. Unless they combine couple of storefronts.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 2:29 PM
oops, I guess you did say both storefronts. So that is 50 x 44'.
Oh geez. More litter everywhere on Smith. And more greasy sidewalks. Even your hipster restaurants have made the street noticeably dirtier, smellier.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 2:33 PM
If the heights can chase away fast food places (as they did Boston Market a few years ago), and the residents of 2nd place can stand up to Scrarano, why cant people get off their asses and get a petition or protest going about a McDonalds on Smith?.. you know why?, because the same people that bitched about Dunkin Donuts on Court and 1st, and are now going there, and will also be on line at Mcdonalds feeding their kids happy meals...if you guys are really against it, do something....and anyone afraid of Sahadi's well, this neighborhood isnt for you...
Posted by: lifer at June 28, 2007 2:43 PM
It's allready frightening to see every Tom, Dick and Harry strolling the streets withe their Starbucks latte "to go"cups. What happened to supporting the environment by keeping it local? Who needs TJ's with all our local specialty markets?? MCD;s better be a rumor.
Posted by: annonymous at June 28, 2007 2:43 PM
I drive out to Merrick,LI with a couple of coolers once a month or so to stock up on TJ stuff at wonderful prices. They rock my little bourgeois world, people,especially the simmer sauces (which have me guilty over "forgetting how to cook") and the best price anywhere on Niman Ranch bacon and ham steak and Plugras butter. They are no substitute for either a Sahadi's or a truly excellent supermarket (as if anyplace in downtown/brownstone Bklyn had one of those)...they are, well, TJs, and we TJ zombies will simmer you in bottled Masala sauce if you dis' them.
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at June 28, 2007 3:13 PM
fight mcds hard. you will lose. they will make sure their signage and decor are "tasteful" and suited to your superior aesthetic. (clean lines!) and they will be wireless. & they will be successful because they serve salad, yogurt, and big macs. and stay at home moms who majored in english w/ a minor in women's studies at kenyon will sneak in for a quick diet coke and will indulge in "just one" order of reg. fries and it will take her back to the memories of mcds in eau claire wisconsin. and the kids are welcomed there....
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 3:26 PM
Trader Joe's is a wonderful store. I lived around the block from one in Boston and it was a very small location, but was packed with good stuff - dried fruits and cookies for snacking, healthy frozen foods to bring for lunch and your basics like milk, bread, etc. In my experience, they don't do a ton of fresh produce in small locations like this - it's more of a pantry-stocking operation.
As for Sahadi's, they will be fine. I love them for their low prices (near east coucous costs 1/2 what it does as evil key foods), and for their amazing spice collection. it really can't be beat.
Here's hoping the combination of the two stores puts Key Foods right out of business. That place is terrible - and it's supermarkets like this, Gristedes, and D'Ag that suck the life out of our brooklyn neighborhoods; not TJ.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 3:36 PM
Sahadi's will be fine no matter who moves in. They run a thriving wholesale business in addition to the retail store. But we DO need more decent grocery choices in BH, CH, CG. When I was growing up, there were at least six supermarkets in the area (Key Food, A&P, Pioneer, Bohack's -- where Thrifty Beverage-Tea Lounge-KC Art Supply are located on Court/Kane), as well as many independent greengrocers, butchers, fishmongers, and small grocery stores. The food shopping experience is nowhere near what it used to be (I'm talking 1960s, 70s, even 80s).
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 3:57 PM
"Bohack's" props to 3;57, someone who's been here as long as I...However, I remember Bohacks had torn candy and food bags that people would snack on as they shopped, it wasnt the cleanest, but it did have the sawdust on the floor, oh those were the days...That was when the Cobble Hill Cinema was one huge theater "the Rex"...and Sal's pizza was actually good... sorry i got off topic, carry on
Posted by: lifer at June 28, 2007 4:07 PM
Lifer: I'm 3:57: Also Paris Court theater across from the "Rex" where D'Amico Day Care is now, and there was a theater on Clinton St somewhere near the BB tunnel entrance where my parents took me (a 6-yr old) to see "Some Like it Hot." I remember laughing my head off at Jack Lemmon twirling his pearls....Yes, off topic, but who cares :)
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 4:41 PM
2:43 - the reason I believe everyone has a starbucks cup is because very few local 'coffee shops' have any idea how to make coffee - I am only talking espresso here (I don't drink all those other drinks so I cant say).
Now I am not saying that Starbucks makes a great espresso by any stretch but it is at least passable (especially now that they have taken the human element out with superautomatic machines), they at least know what crema means and that espresso isnt suppossed to fill a whole cup or be served in a 32oz mug.
Interestingly the local stores that do know how to make a ecent coffee seem to thrive - Cafe Regular, Gorrilla and D'amico come to mind
Posted by: anon at June 28, 2007 4:42 PM
3:57 here: WWIB, you are correct. With a few exceptions, the choices have become sadly inferior, and, if I might add, twice as expensive as those other neighborhoods. Here you can buy (cardboard) tomatoes for $1.29 lb..when they're on sale. In Bay Ridge, you get a whole bushel of fresh vine ripe tomatoes for not much more than that. Needless to say, this year I'm growing my own tomatoes, green peppers & Italian eggplant.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 5:00 PM
I'd like to say that Key Food (in Greenpoint) has expanded its ethnic and organic produce stock a lot. Their employees seem to be compensated well enough since they are all pleasant almost all the time. From checkout to stocker to Deli counter to management.
Sales are very good too.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 5:11 PM
There's no stopping McD's...it's actually (and unfortunately) a perfect location... The Gowanus Houses residents will keep
that McD's going big time.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 5:17 PM
I have to say, I used to poo-poo the Key Food on Atlantic and Clinton, but lately it's grown on me. Their produce dept. leaves MUCH to be desired, but the rest of the store, for a small supermarket, stocks a decent selection of organic and "upscale"-brand packaged products and meats. And their rotisserie chickens are excellent (better than Fairway!)...
Posted by: Anon at June 28, 2007 5:17 PM
so that block will have McD's, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts/Baskin Robbins, and a Domino's (well right across the street.) And yes, the Gowanus Houses residents will keep them all going strong.
I guess if it has to happen I prefer them all clustered together on one block. This makes it easier to just pass that area and head to local places elsewhere.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 7:14 PM
to 5:17
I think the opposite sadly enough...when I first moved in, the Key Food seemed nice to me. And then I decided I didn't want rotten fruit, nasty meat, and no choices in frozen food. I don't know if Trader Joe's will bring much better or not, but competition is never bad, so let's see what happens.
And I fail to see what's so bad about McD's. There's one three blocks from my hole on State, and it does what it intends to do fine - feed me on the *relatively* cheap. I'm all for it.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 7:21 PM
The Met Food at Smith & Baltic is not bad. I used to live across the street from it, and now that I've moved to Clinton Hill I still go back there weekly. I've yet to find another store in Brooklyn (or Manhattan) with the same balance of selection, OK produce, and reasonable prices.
Posted by: Jennie at June 28, 2007 7:41 PM
I'm actually excited about TJ. The keyfood on Montague is fine and I patronize it all the time but I still shop at Sahadis, atlantic produce store, fish tales, staubitzs and d'amico's all the time. Just because TJ is there, I don't think I would shop at the other places less since I currently go to TJ in NJ every other weekend when I visit family. I stock up on their brands like their salsa, dried fruit and frozen mexican which none of the other places sell. Also TJ is not known for their produce (at least I've never bought it).
The McDs rumor is just sad. I don't even consider that food. I heard the reason why burger king didn't survive on montague was due the fact that the locals didn't support it. 5 Guys Burgers will fair better as long as the quality is there.
Posted by: joe at June 28, 2007 9:11 PM
I've heard 5 Guys is supposed to be phenomenal... a friend of mine was dropping me off at the airport in DC for a flight back to NYC, and he said, "by the way if you see a five gu-" and before he could even finish the sentence, i said "five guys burgers and fries?" so excited to hear a DC local raving about the place. (They're a small family operated DC chain, I believe). Hopefully like In-and-Out Burger.
As for McDonald's, it's so depressing how well those McD's guys know the their target demographic and the local real estate market - "let's see, we have an opening, one block from the projects...bingo." Even more depressing is that Trader Joes is NOT more expensive than regular groceries stores, certainly not for things like milk, eggs, juice, etc. (the same cannot be said for Whole Foods and Fairway). TJ should try to reach out to all shoppers and not just yuppies such as myself (and most everyone else here).
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 9:50 PM
This is 9:50 again - just wanted to add that I imagine low-income folks feel that stores like TJ are beyond their budget, and that's why TJ should try to reach out to everyone in the nabe... help people realize that good, healthy food does not always cost more! :)
Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2007 9:52 PM
I agree that it's great to have more food-shopping options in the nabe, but I'm still mystified about why so many people get so excited about Trader Joe's. It's not a comprehensive grocery store, there's no produce to speak of, and 2-buck Chuck is crap. It's a party store that mainly sells cryovac-ed lobster tails and frozen canapes, no?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2007 12:02 AM
To 9:50: TJ's isn't expensive! That is one of the greatest things about it.
I just moved here from Chicago, and I can't tell you how difficult it has been without Trader Joe's close by. Yes, they are corporate, but of the more benevolent type. They sell tons of things nobody else does and they sell nearly all of it for less than anybody else can. They really aren't direct competition to other grocers since they don't carry everything, but I can tell you that walking out of the grocery store with four bags of food for less than $60 is amazing. That $60 would will buy you two bags at Whole Paycheck.
As for Two Buck Chuck, really it's three bucks, and I am certain they will do as they did in Union Sq and open a separate store front for the dirt cheap (yet tasty) wine department.
So to all of you out there crapping all over the idea of a Trader Joes, you just have to experience it. (Yes I have been to the one in Union Sq, but will admit it is a bit too chaotic for my taste.)
Posted by: Devyn at June 29, 2007 1:26 AM
Nice thread folks and at the moment, I can't get into my opinions on both McDs and TJs.
HOWEVER, when I see blant ignorance I have to call it out and this time it SCREAMS so loudly I just can't resist.
"re: "Cobble" or "Boerum" confusion... where's "the hill" exactly? oh, Real Estate Names, you slay me!
wwib
Posted by: who walk in brooklyn at June 28, 2007 11:37 AM"
Are you kidding? Are you being sarcastic? For someone who so snobbishly tries to come off as a Brooklyn old timer and know it all, your ignorance is embarassing. You think Cobble Hill and Boerum Hill are real estate terms? Do you know Brooklyn history or local geography at all?
You sir, are a fool...
If you can't walk from Court Street down the hill to Smith between Atlantic and Degraw and notice that there is a hill, you not only are a fool, you are blind.
And if you don't know the history of Boerum Hill and why its actually called that than you are just as ignorant as your other comments regarding food.
Educate yourself. You'll be less embarassing on chat boards.
DUMBO is a real estate term. Carroll Gardens " West" is a real estate term. Cobble Hill and Boerum Hill are -not-.
Posted by: Peter in CG at June 29, 2007 8:04 AM
Where will the parking be? Someone said that the parking lot next door on the Atlantic side will be used for private condos? I can't believe Trader Joe's would take a space without parking?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2007 12:18 PM
There's a public garage across the street?
Posted by: EJC at June 29, 2007 2:17 PM
You guys are all nuts -
#1 TJ has outlets in Manhattan that offer no parking whatseover. The sacred Food Coop also has no parking. Get a grip.
#2 Raise your hands if you REALLY think McDs is going to take away business from Luluc or Po, or even the hideous China Hong down the block from it.
#3 Aside from the projects, there are 3 public schools within a block of the proposed McDs. No, I'm not a racist, thank you.
#4 What about Sahadis is so frightening?
#5 I will now have to buy my camo thong bikinis on line. Oh, the shame.
Posted by: Lifelong NYCer at June 29, 2007 5:33 PM
Oh my word. Why dont you all go back to Manhattan if you dont like Mcd's in the neighborhood or Dunkin Donuts.Get a grip for Gods sake. You cant afford to live in the city so you want to bring it to Brooklyn now. Stop trying to bring Manhattan and its unaffordable rents and establishments to Brooklyn and price out the minority residents who have been holding down the various neighborhoods all these years.Go to Jersey ,Connecticut, Westchester if you cant deal.Good grief....
Posted by: anon at June 29, 2007 8:49 PM
what about fall cafe on smith off of union. i like that place to hang with a nice coffee in a paper cup.
Posted by: dmm251 at July 2, 2007 9:33 AM
I spoke to the owner of the building and can say that this McD's rumor is not only false but also caused the owner of Brooklyn Camo to be worried that his lease (which still has years to run) was about to be terminated.
Perhaps before posting totally unsubstantiated rumors B'stoner could do a little due diligence first; it's not that hard.
Posted by: Simon at July 6, 2007 3:41 PM
I hear it's not the camo store and realty where McD's is going but the old Blockbuster.
Posted by: guest at September 20, 2007 4:51 PM
Latest Restaurant Additions
-
Piattini Ristorante
added November 23, 2009 12:00 PM in Bay Ridge -
Le Barricou
added November 20, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Der Schwarze Kölner
added November 19, 2009 12:00 PM in Fort Greene -
Oak Wine Bar & Café
added November 18, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Mr. Wonton
added November 17, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Casa Rosa
added November 16, 2009 12:00 PM in Carroll Gardens -
Cousin John's Café & Bakery
added November 13, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Elote
added November 12, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Miracle Grill
added November 11, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Phoebe's Cafe
added November 10, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.