Tuesday Links

same reason there is such a low attendance of people of color in the National Parks perhaps? i.e. differing interests of the different subcultures of American society.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 8:44 AM

Whatever your skin color you have to just go up to a person and say hello to their face.

Even in the all white (on weekends) tribeca childrens' playground you can't break into established groups unless you are upfront and kinda pushy. Once you do get in someone's face then they usually open up but they will never speak to you first. Get over whatever your hang ups are and go talk.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 9:39 AM

right - you are fighting apartheid at the brownstoner gatherings. It must have been becuase the invite was in the "whites-only" section of the website. Spare us the hyperbole.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:06 AM

As I said, you can't wait for Social Justice to happen. You have to go out there and make it happen.

It could be as simple as I say. If you are black/brown/whatever force someone to say hello and start talking. Parlay that into further meetings and maybe a friendship will develop. Nurture it, make plans, etc and you have made you own contribution to social justice.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:07 AM

10:10 - no not social awkwardness - surely you can't think it's that simple?
It's all about ppl having established groups of friends, acquantancies etc and their resistance to allowing anyone else (no matter what skin color) in to that established group. It is hard to break into this but if you really want to, you have to be in your face about it.

Just go to any playground and you will see this mentality with the parents. Or start a new job and you will find it difficult to break into established circle unless you are aggressive about it. Even then ppl may still not acknowledge you in the corridor. How many ppl at work do you see regulalry but never say hello to? See what human nature is like?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:18 AM

BTW, 10:10, I have suffered from racism all through grade school and after from racial epithets to actual physical attacks with claw hammers, brass knuckles etc. (when I was in my teens), so I know what racism is. All I am saying is you can stop being a victim and make a difference.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:20 AM

Yes, yes 10:18. Of course I realize that people are shy. Of course, of course. But since no one here is confusing any of this with racism, why is it relevant?

Next you'll be telling me that the Ku Klux Klan was just a bunch of guys trying to overcome social anxiety disorder.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:21 AM

Thanks 10:20, but I've never made it a habit of being a victim. That is indeed a dead end.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:22 AM

It's less to do with ppl wbing shy nbut more to do with ppl being resistant to change. I thought I had made that clear.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:24 AM

So 10:22, if you are not white and have been to a bstoner event did you feel alienated? What did you do about it?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:25 AM

No, the ppl "in" the group (the all white crowd at a bstoner event) being restistant to change contrasted with the single black person who is suffering from this resistance. What is that black person to do?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:28 AM

gee 10.08 - it can't possibly be that you see racism everywhere you look whether its there or not. Youll always see it if you are monomaniacal about it

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:30 AM

By talking to someone?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:33 AM

what are you talking about?? the black person who was there, if I recall correctly, is a friend and neighbor of the brownstoner family and was mingling and chatting with people. you are making things up to stir up something that doesn't exist. why? because you have your own baggage unrelated to this community. why don't you just go and do this somewhere else. sheesh.

Posted by: ??? at May 15, 2007 10:33 AM

close down the thread. this is not a useful way to discuss this if it is predicated on fiction.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:38 AM

"Anyone know why there were so few people of color at the wine party at Ici?"

I'm a person of color. When I want wine, I go to Stonehome. I prefer tastings at Olivino because I love the owners’ thoughtful approach to wine selections. I also don't particularly care for Ici. While I think the owners are great, there aren't enough vegetarian options on the menu for my particular taste, and I find it a little too intimate. So I don't attend anything there unless it's a mandatory social engagement (ie. at the request of a friend).No offense, Brownstoner, I'm sure it was a successful event.

Having said that, I really am disappointed in this particular thread. Anyone who actually knows anything about the area knows that there is no segregation, bias or racial tension. My friends, many of which also live in the area, hail from different parts of the world as well as different cultural and ethnic backgrounds. It is a very harmonious area, so much in fact, that it's always very easy to tell the visitors from the inhabitants, or the 'newbie’s' (who have lived here less than a year), who have yet to learn that there is no posturing here, as it will only lend to people treating you like an outsider, regardless of your ethnicity.

Nothing warms my heart more than walking around on a warm day, much like this past weekend, and seeing everyone out and about. Nothing kick-starts the warm weather better than Habana’s re-opening. I missed the daytime activities, but it’s more suited for families. The evening activities are my scene. It really is a community of the most beautifully spirited people, and has been for the six or so years that I’ve lived here. It’s my home and I don’t take kindly to race-bating idiotic statement’s made by those who have no idea what they’re talking about.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:48 AM

Just out of curiosity, what "particular area" are you talking about, and what bearing does it have to the topic of this thread?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 10:53 AM

Please....continue...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:04 AM

The original inquiry was just that...an inquiry. It's the initial responses that flung the discussion into the outer reaches of intelligibility, which is itself probably quite significant.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:06 AM

Anon 10:48am, here. In response to Anon 10:53 AM, Ici (and incidently, Bstoner's wine party), is located in Ft. Greene. I would think the area I am referring to would be obvious.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:14 AM

Yeah, well Brower Park, suffice it to say that you are not in a position to speak for me or for anyone else. You have a right to your own opinion, which in this case is also your misfortune, but that's about as far as it goes.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:15 AM

I don't know why it would be "obvious", 11:14, since the topic is in no way specific to Ft. Greene or its inhabitants. Last time I checked, the boundaries of Brooklyn extended far beyond Ft. Greene, and I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:17 AM

"FWIW, the same person posted the comments at 8:35, 9:12, 9:14, and 9:16."

I don't get the point. These posts were all arguing the same side. This isn't sock puppeting. So what exactly are you "catching" this person at? I'm sure people make multiple anonymous comments in the same post all the time. But it seems a little thin-skinned to dive in and check the IP address only when you're offended by the argument. (Which I don't even agree with, btw.)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:17 AM

I also seriously question Mr. B's ability to get an accurate read on people's ip addresses. If he could do that, then he could ban the trolls who frequent this group.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:22 AM

Good point, 11:17.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:23 AM

"I don't know why it would be "obvious", 11:14, since the topic is in no way specific to Ft. Greene or its inhabitants. Last time I checked, the boundaries of Brooklyn extended far beyond Ft. Greene, and I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed."

Perhaps you should start reading from the beginning of this thread, particularly the question that was asked, which I reiterated at the start my post. Then perhaps you will comprehend the context of my response.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:26 AM

I don't have to read the beginning of the thread. I wrote it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:27 AM

As they say on the cop shows, "let's move on people, there's nothing here to see."

Anyone who truly wants to have a discussion on race in America is not going to have it here. The woods are full of troll.

Sock puppets - a perfect description.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:31 AM

"I don't have to read the beginning of the thread. I wrote it."

And I'm a person of color that was not in attendance for the reasons I've already stated. So, where's the confusion?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:33 AM

"And I'm a person of color that was not in attendance for the reasons I've already stated. So, where's the confusion?"

It was your extended monologue on Ft. Greene that created confusion because no one had been talking about Ft. Greene and the nature of the community in Ft Greene was in no way relevant to the thread. That's all.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:36 AM

Geez Mr. B, don't hate me because I'm right about the ip address thing (assuming I am right).

Hate me because I'm good lookin' :)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:37 AM

"It was your extended monologue on Ft. Greene that created confusion because no one had been talking about Ft. Greene and the nature of the community in Ft Greene was in no way relevant to the thread. That's all."

Actually, the liberal-minded racist nature (ie. those who 'love all people as equals' yet still manage to compartmentalize the population by category of race and not as individuals) of some of the responses to your question made my, admittedly long-winded, response relevant. This was my perspective. It may not be the same, or in line with your experience, but that does not negate it’s relevancy. Just as my experience/perspective does not negate yours.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 11:54 AM

I brought up the tribeca playground example because you can see everyday a whole bunch of white ppl chatting amongst themselves ignoring any new white person that comes along.

It doesn't just happen to black people.

To extrapolte racism in a bstoner event when the reason (if it really did happen) is likely to be far more prosaic (ppl are resistant to change) is ridiculous.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:08 PM

It's not naivety, it;s basic human nature that, when multiplied by herd mentality, creates all sorts of social ills and inequality. That's why it's encumbant on us all to combat it.

It's realy quite destructive (this kind of exclusionary attitude) so your thinking that this is a naive way of thinking is simplistic.

Out of the simple minds of ordinary folk can come quite destructive repucussions.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:29 PM

Now you're getting it.

The way to fight it openly is to engage.

start that dialogue, on both side. Fight your prejudices and as a person of color go to Ici and talk to the whites. As a white person at ICi go talk to tht single black person.

See how you fight it? Make a change for the better by enaging.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:39 PM

Sure, this has been my modus operandi from day one. It's an important part of the battle. Not all the battle, but an important part.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:41 PM

Sometimes the most important part of the fight against racism is simply not allowing other people to change to subject. It's amazing how much energy some of the posters here put into talking about anything but racism.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:47 PM

Why didn't you, 12:44? And why are you trying to change the subject? What's making you so uncomfortable, "person of color"?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 12:48 PM

pco engage, I made that statement, as well as 11:14am, 11:26am, 11:33am, and lastly, 11:54am. What is it you would like to discuss?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 3:12 PM

Oh, I started with 10:48am, and the above time references followed.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 3:16 PM

The elephant in the Parlor here is not rascism but the income/wealth gap that separates the brownstoners from the majority of stoop-sitters in the rest of Brooklyn. Also not represented at the wine tasting were dishwashers, janitors and laborers.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 3:34 PM

When we need your advice about how to communicate with others, we'll ask for it. Until that time, kindly shut your pie hole.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 3:48 PM

I really do think that this thread should be added to a "Best of Brownstoner" area of this site.

Mr. B, what do you think about this idea?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 3:50 PM

Who has time for such trivial matters? What of the miele/bosch decision 07? Start small people. Appliances today, social justice tomorrow.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 5:03 PM

Damn 6:18! You get on with your bad self!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 6:29 PM

Wow.

I mean, wow!

I really, really, REALLY love this blog!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 6:37 PM

I love how if there are one small group of guys in an entire neighborhood who resent gentrification that means the neighborhood has "racial tensions". This attitude is a typical type of resentment in young males, who blame their lack of success in life on outside forces all the time. You can find these kinds of guys anywhere and in any race and any community in any state or country.

Most of the time these discussions are nothing but an insult to the black inhabitants of a neighborhood. I'm white. My black neighbors are awesome, and friendly as heck. Also they love nice restaurants, they love espresso, and have been craving "gentrification" of the commercial streets nearby too. Give me a break. Stop trying to stereotype the entire planet. Find another headline.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 8:42 PM