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May 23, 2007
House of the Day: 344 Carlton Avenue
Today's listing at 344 Carlton Avenue in Fort Greene is a good example of how to do a listing right: Plenty of well-photographed photos, a floorplan and a comprehensive description. Pretty simple but some brokers still are too lazy or incompetent to do it. Of course, it helps when you have a good product to pitch, which is certainly the case with this five-story, two-family brownstone at the epicenter of Fort Greene. Will it fetch the asking price of $2,500,000? Hard to say, but it'll certainly get close to that. It's in beautiful shape with tons of historic character with tasteful touches of modern convenience. (We like the kitchen, for example.) There've been no takers since it hit the market a couple of weeks ago. Have any readers checked it out?
344 Carlton Avenue [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
It's beautiful. Wow wow wow wow wow.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 1:48 PM
it is really not all that beautiful. photographs are deceptive.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 1:51 PM
It looks nice. Nick is our RE broker - he is the BEST! Very nice, knowledgable and honest!
Posted by: bergenite at May 23, 2007 2:14 PM
And it even has a clearly pictured kitchen faucet. Way to go!
Posted by: Waverly at May 23, 2007 2:27 PM
wow, looks gorgeous from the photos!
Posted by: lc at May 23, 2007 2:32 PM
Can anyone tell if that's some kind of lot next door?
Agree - good job on the listing.
Posted by: jdhs 91 at May 23, 2007 2:34 PM
This looks like a perfectly nice house.
The kitchen is beautiful. I notice they do not show any bathrooms. It could use an extra half bath on the first or second floor. How's the location? I notice an open lot next door.
The owners have it fixed up very nicely.
The photos look professional and clean.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 2:34 PM
If the economy holds together and atlantic yards doesn't turn into a money pit disaster, it could be $4m in 5 years.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 2:34 PM
It's not a lot to the right of the building, it is a one story garage for brownstone on the corner of Lafayette and Carlton.
It's a beautiful place. I used to live a block away.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 2:57 PM
Its not a lot next door, its a garage and the backyard of the corner house on Lafayette. This is one of the best blocks in Fort Greene since it is very close to the Atlantic subways, yet tucked away and quiet.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 2:59 PM
I called my broker @ corcoran brooklyn heights office, she says there is an over ask bidding war. Already. :(
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:11 PM
i could be wrong about this, but when i was buying my place last year, my broker told me that all offers submitted were confidential meaning that if the last poster is telling the truth, his/her broker should not have given out that there was an offer over asking on the table. or the broker of this house shouldn't have divulged this info to the broker at corcoran/bh.
i don't mean to imply that you're lying, but simply wondering if that is indeed true...i could very well have misheard or misunderstood.
Posted by: anon at May 23, 2007 3:19 PM
In my experience, brokers often let you know, without giving specifics, if your offer is likely competitive or not, or if their are offers out there exceeding the asking price. I don't know if they are supposed to do so, but I can't really see why it would not be ethically ok to tell a potential buyer, so long as the broker was truthful and explained that an offer does not mean that the seller will go with that particular bidder.
In any event, I wouldn't be surprised if this place goes for asking, plus or minus a bit.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:28 PM
Wow. It is lovely. Is 2.5 mil a good price? Just off track, How times have changed. I lived on that block (355 Carlton)in the early 1980s with a house full of Pratt students. Rent for the whole house just down the way was $900/month! Should have bought.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:41 PM
3:19, are you implying that a real estate broker could be anything less than 100% ethical? I'm shocked, shocked...
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:43 PM
So much for AYE being negative. This price is double what we paid less than 3 years ago around the corner.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:43 PM
1.25million less than 3 years ago. If it was in any sort of decent shape, that was actually quite a good deal, but without knowing the details, it's hard to say. this is also a five story place in good shape ...
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:50 PM
In all serious (no snark), as a former buyer (and, of course, bidder) I would be curious to read the thoughts of brokers on what they think the ethics of bid information are. As a bidder, on one hand, I would want to have an idea of where I need to be to be competitive. On the other hand, I wouldn't want someone else to be told how much they have to bid to meet my offer. And of course, how can anyone be sure the broker is being honest about the bids, or creating a false impression of a bidding war just to get my bid up higher. I have formed my own opinion as to what ahs transpired in various cases, but I have never really heard from the broker end how it really ought to work and whether there are formal ethical rules that brokers theoretically subsscribe to or an informal unserstanding of the ethics, or is it just an amoral free for all? Brokers, I really am curious on this point.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:51 PM
I don't want a washer-dryer in my bath!
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 3:52 PM
Lots and lots of wide angle shots...
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 4:01 PM
Gorgeous color palette. I want that designer!
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 4:49 PM
Why would someone pay 2.5M for a place that's going to be worth around $700,000 after AY is built?
Why would someone buy this place when they're only going to get smacked by the
ATLANTIC
YARDS
EFFECT
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 4:51 PM
Yes, nice place.
What interests me, though, is: what exactly are 'one-of-a-kind plantings'?
Posted by: Hal at May 23, 2007 5:18 PM
It's got a whole extra floor compared to most other Brownstones.
Oh, by the way. Atlantic Yards is some awesome stuff. Can't wait for 2029 or whenever that will all be done. The people who aren't displaced will have houses worth much more, even if the traffic does stink. Or maybe it will be the opposite. Maybe something else will happen in the next ten years that will have equal or greater impact on the Brooklyn economy.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 5:27 PM
Brownstoner why must you attack brokers? Not every owner wants their home photographed, so not every home gets photographed. Not all homes photograph well, even though they look better in person. It isn't always a matter of being lazy.
Posted by: expectingbetterfromyou at May 23, 2007 5:32 PM
Beautiful house! This wins the award for the nicest kitchen in recent memory for a house of the day.
Posted by: Sterling Silver at May 23, 2007 5:38 PM
This home will certainly lose some of its value after AY, but probably not that much, 4:51.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 5:44 PM
That's matter of opinion. I actually would bet on the opposite. FG and other nabes nearby are only going to get more expensive after AY. If the reports of over the asking bidding wars are true, then I'm not the only one who will value this area in that way. Plus, it is still a value by Manhattan standards.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 5:47 PM
5:32, why attack brokers? Hmmm, good point. Other than the fact they are unethical, immoral slimeballs, I can't think of a good reason. The process for buying and selling in New York is would be comical if it weren't so tragic. Accepted offers that are meaningless until the seller signs the contract, even brokers acting on behalf of the buyer encouraging them to pay the asking price or more, etc. Yes, I'm bitter, but it's only after having experience with a large number of brokers on both sides of the transaction, none of whom did anything to improve the perception of the profession.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 5:47 PM
5:47, "Large number of brokers on both sides of the transaction"? Either you're exaggerating, or you're a chronic flipper.
I bought one building (recently) and had the best experience with my broker, who actually helped both myself and the seller around our respective lawyers, who were the real problem in the deal.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 6:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they got closer to 2.7 or 2.8.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 6:13 PM
Ok, everyone has an opinion, but so far no one has come up with some hard facts. This is text book real estate licensing info...."All offers should be immediately submitted to the principal until the sale is CLOSED. The seller's agent must remember that it is up to the principal to reject or accept on offer; it is not the agent's job to evaluate the offers and submit only the most favorable. Failing to submit all offers is a violation of license law." Agents must abide by confidentiality laws. They can't let their buyers or other agents know exactly how much other offers are for. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a ballpark though. If they tell you it's over ask, they are basically letting you know that you have to bid higher. Nothing wrong with that...unless they are lying...and that would be a real issue. Regarding laziness: there are good and bad agents. The lack of good photos in my biggest pet peeve. If they stand to earn a big commission, the least they can do is swing for a professional photographer. Kudos to Brooklyn Properties for using an outstanding photographer. No, I don't work for them. But I am a professional photographer who holds a real estate license.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 6:26 PM
you mean, kudos to corcoran, right?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 6:31 PM
I guess that was a freudian slip on 6:26's part, but now that he/she brought up B.P., they do have a very very very similar listing, for basically the same price, with "contract pending" on the listing.
http://www.brooklynproperties.com/house129.htm
And that one's only 4 stories and in a worse (in my opinion) location to the Carlton one. (Carlton being second to none, except maybe S. Portland, as THE prime street in this area).
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 6:53 PM
The 4:51 poster who keeps writing ATLANTIC YARDS EFFECT on every thread, you are not swaying anyone's opinion.
Ft. Greene's prices will continue to climb. It is what it is, sorry buddy.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 7:04 PM
Gorgeous looking house, though I'm wondering what the width is. If it's true what someone posted about several bids over the ask, I predict 2.6. More than that would be a stretch IMHO.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 7:19 PM
Would love to see this place get 2.8 M so the AYE bozo can begin to understand what "effect" AY is actually having (if any) on this particular part of brooklyn.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 7:51 PM
Would someone mind ranting a little bit about what the supposed Atlantic Yards effect could mean for prime Ft. Greene? In contrac on a house around the corner....
Posted by: Kate at May 23, 2007 8:13 PM
How wide is this house? Is it just a 20' home? I can never figure these things out by looking at the floorplans.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 8:38 PM
Atlantic Yards will mean a sports arena and more traffic, but you won't notice unless you live on Flatbush Avenue. Also there will be more parking lots and parking garages in the area. There will be lots of new big high rises populated mostly by people who make more money than the people who have up until now wanted to live in the area. There will probably also be more hotels, sports bars, chain stores and crowds. But really, it'll be like living in a nice brownstone in chelsea and having madison square garden 10 blocks away...
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 8:48 PM
This is not one of the finest homes in this area. It's perfectly nice, but not one of the finest. Guess superlatives sell help sell these things though.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 8:52 PM
do YOU live in one of the finest homes in the area, 8:52?? you do realize that finest in the area is subjective, or are you that ignorant?
kinda sad when you can tell what a bitter soul someone is from 3 sentences on a blog about real estate. talking shit about a house that's probably already sold.
Posted by: anon at May 23, 2007 9:06 PM
Love it and worth the money. Never thought much of FG but this house would tempt me to move.
Posted by: joe at May 23, 2007 9:11 PM
If you knew the quality of homes in this area you too would be questioning that all encompassing statement. The FG house tour last year and the homes that have sold in the area recently give us all some indication of the range of homes in this neighborhood.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 9:32 PM
the kitchen is little and pretty shitty in quality! while the location is fine, it is not perfect. carlton is a highway in the morning. the house was an sro that still feels like one. it is not a "house tour' property rather a mediocre place.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 9:57 PM
6:26 here. I actually did mean Brooklyn Properties, because they always have good photos. Corcoran usually does not.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 10:13 PM
To the broker who wrote:
"Brownstoner why must you attack brokers? Not every owner wants their home photographed, so not every home gets photographed. Not all homes photograph well, even though they look better in person. It isn't always a matter of being lazy."
You're not getting my listing, sweetie. Brownstoner is serving a hugely valuable function here in educating not just buyers and sellers, but brokers like yourself. Free consulting! You should shut your cakehole, pay attention to the advice, and get back to the business of chasing Barbara Corcoran....
Posted by: bob999 at May 23, 2007 10:41 PM
Brooklyn Properties usually does take nice listing photos...But what a horrible website. No search function? Ridiculous. And the property descriptions? Awful. BP doesn't co-broke either. Is it any wonder they are a fourth-tier real estate agency?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 11:06 PM
houses in brooklyn are too expensive and the ones in queens aren't as pretty but they are cheaper
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 11:18 PM
"the kitchen is little and pretty shitty in quality!"
Kitchen and kitchen table is half the floor, how could it be bigger?
"the house was an sro that still feels like one."
That doesn't come over in the floorplan, so how does it come over in real life?
hmm, there is one floor less, but wider, with perhaps more innate detail, but minus the furniture, one block over on south oxford, for sub $2m. Makes me think 2500k is too much.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 23, 2007 11:38 PM
To the photographer w/the real estate licsense, considering you are probably mediocre at both (only experts do one thing) your criticism about sub standard Brookyln Properties cannot hold much validity.
Posted by: takesonetonoone at May 24, 2007 6:59 AM
I like that I can see the kitchen faucet in the photos, Now I can sleep tonite.2.5 mil. And a kitchen faucet that I can see I am so happy. I would buy this house I love the faucet. I am glad that did not destroy the faucet when they redid the house.Oh the faucet, I love the faucet.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 7:02 AM
Jeez Louise, you can't make a comment on this board without some nutjob trying to tear you down! To clarify....I am giving BP a compliment (look that word up if you don't know what it means) because they have professional photos. I wasn't commenting on their website or business practices. Just the photography. And as if you even deserve a response, 6:59am....I've had a pretty successful photography business for over 20 years. I HOLD a real estate license (I believe that's what I wrote) so I can buy and sell my own properties. I don't really do sales for others (only friends). Does that clear things up for you?
Posted by: 6:26pm at May 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Gotta say that my one and only experience buying a house was with BP and the broker selling it (who may not be representative of the entire company, of course) was a dream to work with. Not only was he laid back about showing us the house several times in a very short period of time (as there were multiple bids immediately), crawling around the dark cellar with our engineer, etc., for hours, he actually helped us through a complicated negotiation, was incredibly informed and emotionally supportive, and had a great sense of humor. Most importantly, he really didnt' have to "sell" this house to us, or anyone, it was selling itself. But he was never for a second smug or complacent; he really did everything and some to make us feel completely informed, secure and confident in the purchase, and when he didnt' know something, he apologized, went back, did his homework, and delivered.
The website needs a sprucing up, but it seems pretty easy to navigate. The writing is not good, I agree. But I gotta say, they are holding their own against Corcoran in my neighb (FG) and if I ever put anything on the market, it will be through them. Corcoran is CREEPY.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 8:26 AM
I wonder if it has central air and if any of the fireplaces work. I didn't notice that info in the description. If it has both of those things, I would expect asking or above...
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 8:27 AM
Anyone else seen then house, other than 9:57 who thinks it feels like an SRO and considers Carlton a highway?
It looks high-quality, but does it need a face lift or mechanical/electrical/plumbing updates?
11:18pm: Houses in Jersey City are even cheaper than in Queens.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 9:56 AM
The stove/range is over the window. Now that is illegal. What if there is a kichen fire and the only way out is THAT window?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 10:43 AM
Stove/Range are over what looks like a lot line window. There are other windows there. I don't think that is the way out in a fire. But this house needs some general updating. It is pretty rough in terms of the condition of the walls. I'm sure if it sells for its asking price that the new owners will want to do a really serious paintjob.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 10:54 AM
Once Atlantic Yards construction starts, does anyone think Clinton Hill, which is just outside of the AY footprint, will become increasingly desirable relative to Fort Greene? Not trying to start a flame war. I live in CH and these things are fun to speculate about.
Posted by: TW at May 24, 2007 11:05 AM
ATLANTIC YARDS = $$$ FOR HOMEOWNERS
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 11:13 AM
No. AY = money for developers
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
No. AY = money for food franchises.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 1:36 PM
If you think AY is not going to lift house prices in the area then how do you explain property values in more heavily developed areas such as Manhattan. You may not like AY, and personally I do not either for a whole host of reasons but liking it and what it will do for property values are two separate issues.
Posted by: anonymous at May 24, 2007 2:49 PM
"It is pretty rough in terms of the condition of the walls. I'm sure if it sells for its asking price that the new owners will want to do a really serious paintjob"
funny. someone with 2.5mil is going to hesitate over having to use some touch-up paint.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 3:08 PM
Don't touch the paint! First of all, paint looks better with age anyway. Pluse, those color choices just look fantastic. I love the mural of the tree.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 3:32 PM
Serious plasterwork is a lot more involved and expensive than touchup paint.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 3:34 PM
True that. And in old houses, that job is NEVER done.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 4:30 PM
bob999
you are pathetic.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2007 5:56 PM
To the photographer from yesterday who held his business for 20 years? Does that mean you are actually good? Also, brokering for friends? Friends and bussines don't mix. Try stenography OK?
Posted by: anon at May 25, 2007 8:25 AM
wow, bitchfest.
5:56 - Why is bob999 (or anyone else) pathetic?
8:25 - I'm sure the photographer is decent, and I'm sure he doesn't deserve your malicious "advice".
What's up with all the hate? It's Memorial day weekend, people, Cheer the fk up.
So did this gorgeous house sell yet? I want to see it before someone covers it up with "linen eggshell benjamin moore".
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 9:08 AM
If anyone still cares i saw it over a week ago. No it doesn't have working fireplaces but it is extremely expensive and destructive to widen flus and hearths for wood, it does have the original coal whatchmacallits which look great. It has double-glazed windows so is very quiet inside. The floors and stairs make not a sound! It was never a SRO, whomever said that is a shill, it was renovated by the owners who have owned it for 4 years and the house is full of expensive antiques of various kinds.
The paint and moldings and wood are excellent. Whomever is talking about rough paintwork is a troll.
There are two side windows in the kitchen and the back patio, whomever is talking about lack of fire exits in the kitchen is a fool.
It even has an expensive radio to base security system - not that the lack of one would matter at this price.
Someone who can really use 4 full floors is going to end up with a hell of a house, one that will look cheap in 5 years. It is very rare you will find one in FG in similar condition that is not ruined by over-bidding. At 600psf or whatever 2.5 comes out as, it is very good value. Unless you think FG is going to go backward for some reason (global recession?) then I think it will appreciate at least 10% a year for a few more years yet.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 11:25 AM
I have just read through roughly 71 posts about this property and it seems that perhaps 1 person has actually visited this place. When someone does, can they post some useful, clear information?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 11:56 AM
THANK YOU 11:25 am. Your summary seems to actually reflect the building that's shown in the pics.
I think you meant that in 5 years, the house will have seemed well-priced, not that it will "look cheap" -- it appears to me like this house is gonna continue to look expensive for a long long time, assuming no idiots get a hold of it and annoint it with irreperable design "decisions" du jour.
It's just such a shame that these people owned it for only four years and are now leaving.
ps
It's not extremely expensive or destructive to widen the flus, but it is a dirty job. if you're buying this house, one or two real fireplaces wouldn't hurt.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 2:31 PM
sorry 2:31pm i get lazy and leave proof-reading to the 'edit' button but of course there is no edit button.
Yes I think anyone buying this at 2.5, although nervous now, will look back on their decision as a very good one.
I believe the owners are downsizing, a family of 4 cannot really use such space even setting aside guest rooms.
It is true that the kitchen is not a huge country kitchen, now that I come to think about it... But big country kitchens tend to be in garden extensions, not parlour floors. Perhaps a drawback for home cooks. There are a couple of other very minor drawbacks i won't bore anyone with. It is rare you can find a big brownstone with only a couple of small negatives.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 4:17 PM
So they should make more family, and stay there! i always hate to see people leaving. Especially after they did a really nice job on the place. But this ain't Europe. Everyone's just passing through . . .
Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2007 4:37 PM
The consensus from a lot of people who actually saw this house is that it is need of work that it was fixed up in an okay way, but not a fancy enough way to justify what many buyers are looking for at this price. But that said the price doesn't seem expensive on a price per sq foot or a price per floor basis. But it is still 2 and a 1/2 million hard-earned dollars.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 26, 2007 9:53 PM
Market has changed, won't sell for that.
Maybe that's the right price in two years
Stop the hyping. The amrket makes the price. Not some kid from, where are you from agian?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 28, 2007 12:26 PM
I sold a house on that block a year and half ago for 750K in immaculate shape.
You say it is worth how much?
Sold a shell two years ago for 450K
twenty five wide. We don't like houses that are less than twenty ft, really we don't like things under 22 ft. Otherwise it is just too dark and well cramped with that staircase taken away fifteen percent of your living space on the lower floors.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 28, 2007 12:31 PM
12:26 pm:
You wanna bet?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 29, 2007 8:31 AM
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