House of the Day: 169 Westminster Road

Where does landmark status begin and end in controlling the polishing up of a house like this? Can you paint it any color, or do you have to apply and submit a plan?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 2:11 PM

This house in in prime Prospect Park South. Location, location, location... and yes, a landmarked block.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 2:47 PM

Currently, there is a hideous white plastic fence around the backyard of a corner property on Albermarle in PPS. Been there for quite a few months now... Don't see Landmarks tearing it down.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 7:22 PM

The location is great. PPS is my favorite sub-neighborhood of Victorian Flatbush and very close to the park. Haven't been in the house so I can't comment on the condition. Given the location and size, I would assume it needs some work at this price.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:06 PM

Totally overpriced. Needs bare minimum 300K of work, and will not be worth 1.325M when you're done.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 9:48 AM

Can anyone familiar with the PPS neighborhood comment on Mary Kay Gallagher's two priciest listings: #0448 on Rugby Rd. $2.5mil & #0447 $1.95, not sure but I think it may be on Albemarle or Beverly. These houses are huge and look lovely. I would think they might attract a family looking for more space than they can get in PS, but they have been on the market for many months. Are these prices just more than the PPS market can command or is there something inherently wrong with these properties?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 10:09 AM

I'd say that the $2.5MM house is overpriced for the current market, although it is in better condition. The $1.95MM is much larger and special and although it would need $100 - $200K to bring it up to snuff, is a really lovely property that is well worth the investment.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 11:14 AM

Listing #0447 - $1,950,000 is swoonworthy, but the exterior needs a whole lot of work. I was surprised to see in photo that the interior looked that good. (I have only seen the exterior). If I had a couple of mil, and budget to scrape, restore and repaint the exterior I would be packing my bags to move there.

Listing #0448 - $2.5MM is in fantastic condition, but no where near as stately looking from the outside, so think that it is overpriced.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 11:38 AM

I think you may be confusing the $1.95 ask on Buckingham with another house on in PPS on Albermarle, which was asking $4 million a few years back. That house, to be fair, just got a new roof, but the exterior still needs TONS of work.

The exterior of the house in Buckingham seems to be in decent condition...

Buckingham may be sitting as it is very close to Church Avenue, with it's heavy foot traffic and noise - not to mention Bobby's Dept. Store. I bet closer to Beverly it would have sold ages ago... Buckingham, however, is architecturally, from my perspective anyway, the finest street in PPS, perhaps in all of Flatbush.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 12:16 PM

Oh the 2.5 million house.... It doesn't have it's original front porch. That should be restored if the owner is seriously going to ask 2.5 million. I bet it wouldn't be hard to reconstruct (although I don't know how costly...). The previous owner, a doctor removed the porch, and also covered the first floor with vinyl tile. The house was on the Vic. Flatbush house tour a few years ago. Wall to wall covering most of the first floor... don't know how hard it would be to repair damage to the original floor (probably fantastic parquet work), but my bet is you're looking at new floors. Second floor is in beautiful condition. Never been on the third floor.

Have to say the three story cantilevered staircase is magnificent, as is the stained glass oculus and original light fixture (hangs down three stories...)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 12:19 PM

Actually, I think if this were done, it would command $1.325, at least. I have to disagree with 9:48. PPS is one of the best, if not the best, neighborhood in Victorian Flatbush, as it is close to the park, historically zoned and full of some of the most amazing houses in the area. The $1.95M and $2.5M houses take you into a range people have not gone into in Vic Flatbush yet (other than the perfectly restored on featured here before for over $1.9 in Ditmas, which went right away) and therefore, are not moving. $1.325M for this, restored to your personal taste, in a prime Vic Flatbush neighborhood closer to the park and faster into Manhattan than the $1.9 house in Ditmas is not a bad deal.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 12:26 PM

12:26, my math and language was way off there. I meant to say that the house might command 1.3M after spending 300K--which means it should be priced at 1M, not at the current 1.25. And if you're going to argue that it might actually sell for 1.55 after renovation, then I totally disagree.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 12:39 PM

This house is not spectacular, either in terms of condition or architecturally, compared with it's PPS neighbors. It's a pretty run of the mill Victorian, the likes of which you will find in other areas of Victorian Flatbush.

That said houses in non landmarked nabes are selling for $1.1 plus... some in need of some serious work. So, given the location, which is prime (near the Park, Cortelyou Road, Windsor Terrace (movie theater, butcher, etc..), this seems like the going rate.

I think people have a hard time accepting that these houses are worth quite so much now - but remember, they were in fact built for the wealthy (PPS and DP proper) and upper middle classes...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 1:50 PM

Pasc - I agree that it was priced too high at first and probably the drop combined with the amount of time it has been on the market is hurting you (especially since the website actually puts the date it was featured in the NYT - which is good at first but looks horrible after almost a year - the broker should take that off). People are thinking something is seriously wrong with it. Having said that, the house is magnificent and, if I had that kind of money right now, I would be all over it. It is close to Church but on an amazing block with some of the most unique and beautiful houses I have ever seen. I know it needs updating, but this is a true mansion. I wish I could take it off your parents' hands!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 4:15 PM

I saw a ladder propped up against the one of the columns at the 2.5 today... Looks like Pasc is taking this board very seriously!

I live in the area and we all have carpenter bees... they are just a nuisance but nothing terrible.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 5, 2007 3:17 PM

Since everyone is discussing MKG's listings, what's the problem with #0421 at $1.599 million? That one has been listed for over a year, right? Ditmas is getting hot, but it has to make you wonder when any house sits on the market for over a year.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 5, 2007 6:47 PM

Pasc, I saw the house a while back.
Let's put the work it needs aside, all these homes need work.

The first floor is grand, and you walk in and it's impressive but it does not have much wood detail and does not have parquet floors, pretty standard in these homes.
I have to say having parquet floors with nice borders really makes a huge difference in a home, and really add a lot of character and makes a home especially one like yours more grand.

The 2nd & 3rd floor where just bedrooms, I thought a bit dull and did not do anything for me.

All of that a side, I think the biggest problem selling your home is the size. It's a very very large home that costs a lot of money to maintain, heat etc..

I think that is the biggest issue that it is so LARGE that many people just do not want to take on a home of that size..

Posted by: Anonymous at May 5, 2007 7:10 PM

And yet, 7:10pm, everyone on brownstoner complains when a house is too small! I don't think parquet floors make a difference as long as there are wood floors. Plain wood floors can be preferable to buyers who prefer more modern, minimalist interiors.

Which gets to the real problem with your house, Pasc. Clutter clutter! There are so many pieces of furniture in there, and clutter of figurines it's a huge turnoff to buyers. I am not kidding when I say I literally get claustrophobic when I look at the photos of the house. This is a clear case of not seeing the house for the furniture and clutter. Have you counted the chairs? I think there are 50 chairs on the parlor level.

Most house buyers in Brooklyn are under 40. These are people with kids & families, that's why they are buying a house not an apartment or condo. And buyers under 40 even if they do like antiques or traditional furnishings, do NOT like the "grandma" look. Decorating wise, just general principles, you have too many mixes of woods. Gilt furniture mixed with dark walnut stain, mixed with golden oak. Plus there are so many different styles of furnishings and decor in your rooms. It presents an impression of chaos.

You need to sit your parents down and tell them you all are getting a large storage unit, and are packing up no less than half the furniture in the house. And almost all the "stuff" sitting on shelves. Only keep one or two lamps per room, and ONLY if they match each other. Nothing with frou frou lampshades. As for furniture, all over the parlor level you need to pick ONE type of wood finish (and not the gilt - if gilt isn't true French antique it's tacky) and only keep the furniture in the house that fits that one type of finish of wood.

When your parents move into their new house they can pack it with all the styles of furniture they want, but right now they need to become minimalists. Sellers should furnish just enough to help show scale in a room, but never never clutter it. Lastly, take down all the family photos and baby pictures. When people are thinking about spending $2 million on a house they want to picture themselves living there, not somebody else. That's a well-accepted principle in selling. Have to say I'm really really surprised your realtor didn't tell you that already. Good luck!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 6, 2007 12:28 PM

Me again at 12:28, I'm looking at the photos again and I'd recommend taking down the white sheers. Looks like you have blinds up. Leave the shades, and take down the curtains. Let the "bones" of the house show. That's your overall problem, we just can't see the house.

Which is sad because the house is beautiful and I disagree with 7:10 completely about details. There are tons of details in your house. It's just Edwardian details not Victorian. Which maybe is what 7:10 is comparing this house to, a Victorian brownstone, but that's apples and oranges. Edwardian is more restrained. Victorian is decorative. And frankly I prefer Edwardian.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 6, 2007 12:39 PM

Too expensive.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 6, 2007 2:44 PM

OK - I am the one who said I would love to buy it if I could afford it right now - not the previous poster. I sort of agree with him or her though. You should take out some of the clutter to show the size and possibilities of the house. People are not very imaginative in that price range. Also - if it doesn't cost too much, I would consider taking down the white metal bars on the doors and windows, they greatly detract from the beauty of the exterior and make people think the area might not be safe (which isn't true anymore).

Posted by: Anonymous at May 6, 2007 7:57 PM