Condos of the Day: Clinton Street Brownstone FSBOs

Cheap restoration. Compared to the CH condo on Grand & Gates that I saw last sunday, this place looks like crap. And they're asking twice as much. Location is completely different, but this place doesn't compare.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 12:42 PM

I mean Renovation. Not much to restore here.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 12:43 PM

Bay Ridge Limestones 2600sf+ cost 800K-ish and very good to great schools.....Ok more travel time......Clinton Hill is lovely though:>)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 12:47 PM

I dig white cabinets (and white kitchens), but I don't care for the ones in the duplex.

What's up with the prices? It's like the owners want to make enough to pay off the entire mortgage amount, renovation costs AND put three kids through private college.

Good luck to 'em, but I'd be surprised if they got a lot of interest at those prices.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 12:56 PM

Fred -- clearly stated and named as acondo not coop.
And awkward kitchen to living room? What planet some of you people from...or do always have to say something negative even if makes no sense.
Price per sq. ft. seems competitive (if sq ftage is accurate).
Corcoran has higher priced per sq ft condos on Union (Smith and Ct) and on Luquer. Not prime blocks like this one.
(and elementary school).
Biggest drawback is hike up the stairs for the duplex.
Otherwise - great looking space and wish I lived on Clinton St (which I did once years ago in RS studio).

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:23 PM

Anon 1:27 -- again it is a CONDO - not coop. No underlying mortgage.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:29 PM

Chelsea123, I wonder the same thing. I thought those prices for the condos on 2nd Place were insane, given the price of an entire brownstone in the neighborhood, but I guess someone bought them. I think these prices seem equally over the top (why would anyone pay close to $2 million for a walk-up?) but maybe not. I do think the 2nd Place renovation looked a bit nicer than this one, but these are in PS 29, which is still more coveted than PS 58 zone (although that is fast-changing).

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:29 PM

it's not stated on the listing site whether this is a coop or a condo...or if it is, i'm blind. no mention of taxes, though, which indicates coop to me.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:30 PM

duh...i take that back. it's in the freakin' headline. but still confused about the no taxes.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:32 PM

For that kind of money I want complete control of the castle... I don't want to worry about who I my be upsetting over my choice of music, especially at 3am.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:45 PM

To the owner - thanks for chining in. I made that comment about 100 2nd Place, but yours also looks very nice.

I do have one question -- since you are living in the bottom duplex anyway, why did you decide to condo the building instead of living with 2 rental incomes? (That's what we did when we bought our brownstone). We like "controlling" the building, but is the income from rentals just not enough anymore to make this cost effective? Or did you just prefer condo living?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:49 PM

- meant to say " chiming in", and I agree with you about Cobble Hill vs. Brooklyn Heights -- I think Cobble Hill is actually more expensive these days because people with families prefer it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:50 PM

I agree that it seems crazy to spend that much and only have part of a brownstone but that said, it might be under priced. 100 2nd place is the same layout and 2 of the 3 apts have sold. The lower duplex for 1.825 and the middle floor thru for 980. The owner of that building paid 2.4 and did a nice but not perfect renovation. The owner of this clinton street paid 3 million and looks like they did a nice job. The market is crazy, not the sellers.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 1:55 PM

Agree with Matt at 1:52, owner should be commended for answering questions. Thank you very much. And Anon 1:55 is also right that it is the market that is crazy and this does appear to be market price. I just don't know anyone who can afford these prices! I'm in the neighborhood and have never met any of these new arrivals -- everyone I know either rents or bought brownstones years ago (or live in buildings they inherited from family).

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 2:14 PM

Saw it and think its a very tasteful renovation - good balance between traditional and contemporary, love the openness of the living area, smart layout overall, master bed with his/her WIC, great exposures, lots of light (skylight in master bath), wood burning fire places, privacy, bathroom fixtures and finishes are the best, very quiet, in the heart of cabble hill, possibility of roof deck, CONDO - not coop, zoned PS29 - best public school in brooklyn.

Is the price really high?

I haven't seen anything that matches this standards in the area. I believe this is going to attract quite some interest and sell fast.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 2:26 PM

Things - neighborhood - don't change or change back suddenly.
Clinton St. Cobble Hill was beautiful and desirable when I was looking for apt after college and now in my mid-50's. Safe, clean, quiet with good school.
Has slowly over past 30 +years gotten more 'fancy' as you will as new owners spent major $$$ on renovations.
Nothing happens overnight.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 2:31 PM

Cobble Hill has appreciated quickly but in a logical way - it has long absorbed overflow/pricedout population from Brooklyn Heights, and for 10+ years it has been taking on people with money who would have previously lived in Manhattan but like the relative bargain they could get. Most important it is family friendly. So while you still have flippers/speculators/investors driving some of those prices up, many of the wealthy people buying here will stay. Can't say that about Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 2:47 PM

THis is the comment I was referring to as to rapid change (not referring to prices - as those escalated beyond belief all over metro area - not just a few hoods).
"The day before yesterday most of these areas where considered boring and low-class, the change was so sudden, what's to say it won't change back just as suddenly? "
Cobble Hill was not boring low-class 30 years ago when I lived on CLinton St.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 3:27 PM

I think these look stunning. I see some of the possible drawbacks (the walk-up, the small condo assn), but could be a great situation for someone.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 3:52 PM

"incredibly urban environment near one of the best cities in the world "
Near? I thought was Brooklyn major part of that city.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 5:22 PM

I think ps 58 is a great school and on-par with ps 29, people need to realize the greatness of the school. The house is very nice and i would love to get into the clinton street condo. good buy in a very very nice area.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 8:43 PM

Even in this crazy Brooklyn market this is too high. Should be listed at 1.85 and go for 1.8. If sellers get close to 1.95 - good for you.

I will say you have a gorgeous building, nice spaces, ps 29, reasonable cc$, and agree with most of the positives noted by prior posters.

I too appreciate the owner responding above. Drop your price by $100k and this will move quickly.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 10:09 PM

one thing: since owner is living there, you know that reno must be halfway decent in terms of mechanicals...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 10, 2007 10:27 PM

2:42 might be mistaken. This area has been "changing" for a lo-o-ong time, at least 25 years. It was Italian, it was working class, it was ignored by non-natives. Mortgages were hard to get when the interest rates were sky-high in the early 70s, but there wasn't much turnover anyway. New families were not the first gentrifiers, or whatever. It was "yuppies," mostly young childless couples, around 1982. Renting huge apartments from Italian families for what seemed an exorbitant amount to the locals but a steal to the Manhattan refugees. There have been interesting shops, galleries, movies here for decades, spilling over from BH. The pace has quickened, but it was not a sudden change.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 11, 2007 1:48 AM

Wife and I are in the market for for a 2 bed duplex. We're interested in the Clinton street unit and will check it out. Last week we went to the Clinton Hill lower duplex Open House on Clinton Ave. asking $1.1M. Did any of you folks go to that Open House? I would be interested in your comparison. The brokers are a small agency from Park Slope - Urban View Realty.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 11, 2007 10:19 AM

I agree, they're priced right. $812 per foot for fully renovated with updated mechanicals. I thought the discussion here would have been about condos vs. rentals for homeowners. Because I think condo is a nice option for some owners of houses. I personally would not want to deal with tenants. I'd rather fully, nicely renovate the entire building (not just do cheap renos in the rental units) and sell to people who are invested in treating the building and their neighbors really well. Helping out around the building. It's a brilliant idea. Lastly I'll chime in and say thanks to the Owner for coming on the thread and identifying him/herself. That alone makes a good impression. Sounds like a good neighbor to have!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 13, 2007 1:26 PM

Anon 1:26 pm above, I think that would be an interesting discussion to have. We personally prefer having tenants, simply because we can control the entire building (and also in the hopes of taking over more of the building some day). I think the owner here said she would have loved to do that as well, but the financials didn't work out.

This is one of the biggest changes, in my mind, in buying a brownstone today versus 5 years ago. Five years ago you could make that decision with all things being equal. These days, the rents you receive pay off such a small portion of your mortgage that it makes far better financial sense to sell at the high prices you can get. For instance, the owner of this coop can get nearly $3 million dollars to pay off a high mortgage. The rental income (I'll very generously assess that at $8,000/month for the 2 apartments on the market) might defray 1.3 million in mortgage payments. Many people simply can't afford to come up with the money to pay off the additional 1.7 mortgage payments each month, even if they'd prefer not to condo the building.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 13, 2007 1:53 PM

The owner paid too much for the property.
He is asking too much for his condos.
Why would anyone pay that much when you
can own a whole house for less.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 14, 2007 10:01 AM

Who and what the rich do; Interesting
subject for the middle class to mull
over. Rich peopele don't buy a floor of a brownstone in Brooklyn. Sorry, you have the wrongg idea about things.
The person who started this project.,explained it best; he didn't have the money to keep it as his won, or to keep it as a rental. He is trying to make money in the real estate game when theings are soft. He is try to make a large profit, more than he makes at his real job.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 14, 2007 10:13 AM

Ishould have proofed my writing, sorry

Posted by: Anonymous at May 14, 2007 10:15 AM

My post was removed for some reason, so I'll post these thoughts again - now that houses are getting so expensive in some neighborhoods, the idea a rental income will make a significant contribution towards paying a mortgage seems bad math. If having an extra floor and rental apartment in a house makes the house cost at least $500,000 more then how does $2500 to $3000 a month rent help pay that extra mortgage? I wonder if the types of buyers for the really high-priced houses will be changing. Like perhaps they'll be people in a whole other income bracket who don't want tenants. And maybe the smaller, single-family houses will gain in appeal, since having a rental apartment isn't as helpful financially these days. It will be interesting to see if that happens. Oh yeah AND, if the rental market in some Brooklyn neighborhoods would be affected by more houses going back to single-family.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 14, 2007 12:26 PM

I am always buying, this is 10.13.,
I just pay less per square ft. than
you. I have been here longer and I
get the first round choices. You get the price after the speculator and flipper are through. I get offered the building before the flipper and speculator buy. WE will
always see things differently. The air might be stratified, but so is the real estate market in Brooklyn. Yes it's a soft market compared to five years ago.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 14, 2007 1:44 PM

interesting that the owners have now given it to a broker.... guess the traffic was too low and the price too high for the market. as nice as it looks on the web, it is ridiculous to think that a walk-up 7 blocks below atlantic avenue should be essentially $2mm. as someone referenced before the condo at 114 hicks in the heights went for $2.25mm and was much better restored and, again, in the heights and had beautiful outdoor space. looks like it may be a long summer for the owners. not much of a market in july for 2mm dollar apartments.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2007 10:04 PM