City Planning Approves FAC Project at 575 5th Ave

The new structure will house people on the following basis:

"the composition of the units: 24 are slotted for formerly homeless people living with mental illness, 5 for formerly homeless individuals living with HIV/AIDS, and 20 for low-income community residents."

Twenty-four units for people whose mental illness was so severe they were reduced to homelessness. Yeah. The people in those 24 units will be a great asset to the neighborhood.

Their presence will increase the cost of social services in the area, and lead to regular calls to the polic precinct. It is a fact of life with these facilities.

Five units for ex-homeless people with AIDS. Great. Are they IV-drug users? That should add a new dimension to commerce in the neighborhood.

Twenty units for low-income residents. Exactly what does that mean? Single mothers with uncontrollable kids?

I live near a building that had been similarly used -- on Avenue H and E. 12th street.

Here's what it meant. Hookers on the corner in a residential neighborhood. Hookers, I will add, that looked sick. Drug dealing, noise complaints. Minor property crime and constant concerns about the safety of children walking past. These were not idle or unsubstantiated worries. Kids were accosted.

The police were not a great help. They were reluctant to respond to the daily complaints about activities around the building.

Fortunately, the building is now vacant, after a few years of legal wrangling. Homeowners on the same block are thrilled that their worthless neighbors have been driven out. It is hoped that a developer will convert the building into condos.

It won't take long before people living near this 5th Ave facility will become resentful and angry about their troublesome neighbors. The idealism will disappear and a movement to shutdown the facility will begin. In fact, given the initial opposition, I'd say the movement has already started.

In any case, it's beyond satire to think that a neighborhood needs a fair share of mentally-disabled, AIDS-infected IV-drug users and irresponsible mothers to earn its merit badge for "diversity".

Fifth Avenue is in the middle of a recovery from years of problems. But rather than let the recovery continue on its upward path, benefiting the long-term residents who stuck it out during the tough times, the city has other ideas. It has decided to knock the neighborhood back a few years by re-introducing the old problems. Bring back some drug users, increasse the need for social services, give the cops more to do and give the neighbors more to complain about. Put parents on edge about the safety of their kids.

Here's a plan. Build facilities at Floyd Bennett Field for all the people in the city who cannot care for themselves. There's thousands of acres of unused and uninhabited land that would meet all the needs of the people who are headed for Fifth Avenue.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 11:09 AM

lostinbrooklyn, you wrote:

"If that's the type of person living near the proposed FAC facility, then he/she are the reason folks are going to move away from the area, not the supportive/affordable housing development."

I don't live in Park Slope. But I do live near a facility similar to the one coming to Fifth Avenue.

After the facility is operational, the only people who will praise its presence are those who live nowhere near it.

It's only goofy people like you who can say the mentally ill, the AIDS-infected IV-drug users and the irresponsible poor make better neighbors than average people with everyday problems.

YOu can deny reality if you want. But unless the people in that building never venture out, you can be sure their presence will surface in undesirable ways.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 11:40 AM

lostinbrooklyn, you wrote:

"Even better. So someone who does not even live in the area should dictate who live there."

I suppose you would respond to the idea of convicted sex offenders in your neighborhood the same way. It appears you think people in a neighborhood should accept anyone in their midst, even those who are the very people who impair the quality of life with their presence.

You wrote:

"Did not know FAC had anything in YOUR neighborhood...wait, they don't do they?"

The building in my neighborhood that had been occupied by the hookers, drug dealers, and mentally ill was emptied last year -- after at least seven years of use as a city dumping ground for undesireables.

I repeat, the families in the houses around this building are thrilled about their successful drive to get the bums out of the neighborhood.

Eventually, the people on Fifth Ave will feel the same way.

Furthermore, I believe the city has many options for housing these people without putting them in rebounding neighborhoods where they will impair the quality of life.

Like I said, Floyd Bennett Field way down Flatbush Avenue is vacant with the exception of the base for the NYPD Helicopter facility. There are thousands of acres there on which to build excellent facilities for those in need.

There are smart approaches to handling social ills and stupid approaches. The Fifth Avenue building is an example of a stupid plan.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 1:06 PM

jake, you wrote:

"I agree with most of it, except with the "Floyd Bennett Field" part."

What's wrong with making use of Floyd Bennett Field? It's huge and vacent.

There are obstacles, of course. It is no longer owned by the city. I think it is now controlled by the Department of the Interior. But, they've done nothing either. That's government administration for you. Let valuable assets sit idle for decades.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 1:10 PM

anon 4:21 you wrote:

"...and yes, i live in park slope, near the facility and am quite happy with the decision made above."

Yeah, sure. Like it matters that you approve. The fact remains that those who live in the houses and buildings near this facility will begin to resent their new neighbors when the new neighbors impair the quality of the much improved life along that stretch of Fifth Avenue.

You're delusional if you think these people will add a joyful dimension to life in Park Slope.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 6:34 PM

anon at 4:29, you wrote:

"More of these facilities need to be put in even more affluent neighborhoods all over the city!"

In other words the excess of people in need of treatment has already overwhelmed the poorer neighborhoods. Thus, in your view, it's time to expand the number of facilities in better neighborhoods to damage the quality of life there as well.

You wrote:

"The number of supportive housing faculties in decent neighborhoods that provide the formerly drug addicted, HIV positive or mentally ill a safe environment (with decreased access to negative influences)to recover is negligible when compared to the enormous need for these services."

In other words, decent neighborhoods are to be penalized for being decent. There are lots of colleges and universities in poor neighborhoods that have suffered from various social pathologies. Yale for one. I haven't noticed an improvement in those neighborhoods due to the presence of law-abiding students.

You wrote:

"Mental illness, drug addiction, being HIV positive and not earning 100 grand a year does not a bad person make!"

Mental illness affects many criminals. Drug addiction is one of the most common factors driving the commission of crimes. So, yes mental illness and drug addition does a bad person make.

You wrote:

"Mental illness can be treated with medication and with the ancillary services, support and supervision provided by these facilities..."

Yes, I've known schizophrenics living in these settings. They remain as nuts as ever, subdued when they take their medication and troublesome when they don't.

You wrote:

"...individuals can begin to live productive lives & become contributing parts of society."

You think there are jobs around Park Slope for the mentally ill? Perhaps the city government will create administrative positions for the mentally ill when these facilities are opened and need staff, but that's about it.

You wrote:

"I work with the mentally ill in a community based program and can tell you that many of their struggles derive from individuals in society & government with insular, myopic thinking such as yours..."

Yes, of course, schizophrenia is caused by the bad thoughts of some people who aim their thoughts at those they want to harm. Yeah.

You wrote:

"Creating ghettos of the ill and poor is not the answer."

Ghettos result when people refuse to practice societal norms. Properly staffed facilities in a place like Floyd Bennett Field beats letting incompetent people mingle with the general population where their behavior is inflicted on people without the power or inclination to improve it. However, that's when the cops are called.

You wrote:

"We all live in society and if we are not actively trying to help those less fortunate then us to improve society then we are part of the problem."

Yeah, yeah. If we're not part of the solution, we're part of the problem. Very 60s.

You wrote:

"Obviously bigotry is a driving force in keeping potentially productive individuals from success but silence and inaction is almost as bad."

Nonsense. I've lived near these facilities and have known people with many of the pathologies associated with them. There's no evidence either the unfortunate people or the neighbors benefit from the proximity.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts. at May 28, 2007 8:28 PM

shrink to fit, you wrote:

"I used to live right above the Blockbuster at 15th and 5th and now live three blocks away. My family has no problems with this project."

Of course you and your family don't object to the new facility. It's not yet open for business. At this point, the pending problems are still in the potential stage.

In any case, as one who has lived around sites for problem people, I can assure you, neighborhood problems arise. Aside from the now-vacant facility near me, there was another. A group home. About two months ago one of the residents started a fire in it and it burned almost to the ground. Drug deals were often conducted across the street from the house, and two years ago one of the buyers killed a dealer.

In essence, you want to argue that most of the undesireable activities occurring around these sites are infrequent enough to be invisible to those with no sensitivity to street activity. However, there's plenty going on and eventually the neighbors know it and resent it, and want the residents to disappear.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 9:03 PM

anon 9:05, you wrote:

"lets change your name to neighborhood nuts and leave it at that. you are are a sicko in my book. the worst kind of sicko."

Suit yourself. But I'll bet a dollar right now that if you live next door to the new facility, you'll lead the charge to boot the residents after they've begun to bring misery into your life.

You wrote:

"ignorant."

Sure. Get back to me after you've spent time living near your favorite home for the mentally impaired.

There are far better locations for these facilities than rebounding neighborhoods like the one around 5th Ave and 16th St.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 28, 2007 9:25 PM

anonymous at 9:42, you wrote:

"i guarantee you the 45 or so people living in that building will not cause the problems so as to overwhelm the other 50,000 of us in park slope."

Quite true. Like I said, it's the people who live near the building who will experience the problems. Not you.

You'll see.

You wrote:

"your stalking the site writing something to each and every point and person who is supportive of this project only contributes to the continued ignorant behavior you've demonstrated."

Yeah. You're right, the mentally ill never commit crimes. Neither do drug addicts.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 29, 2007 12:22 AM

lostinbrooklyn, you wrote:

"AND P.S. you never answered my question, did FAC run the facility near you that you keep complaining about?"

Since the FAC acronym stands for Fifth Avenue Committee, you can be sure it didn't advocate on behalf of the hookers, drug addicts and criminals residing in the building near me.

As for your lame comparisons with nazism, well, I see you are simply an idiot who thinks the government should only intrude into the lives of citizens on YOUR terms, which seem to include inserting problematic people into residential neighborhoods.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 29, 2007 2:34 PM

The man behind the curtain wrote:

"I hope this project works out as advertised."

It won't. Here's why: the mentally ill and criminals with substance abuse problems are not reliable people. The mentally ill often skip their meds because life is often more exciting when they are in the manic phase of their bi-polar lives. Just ask. They'll tell you. Schizophrenics also feel more human when their brains are not stupified with various suppressive medications.

Meanwhile, whatever the initial role for this building is, well, it will change. If it's intended as a temporary site for those on the road to recovery, you can be sure that temporary phase will last until the residents expire of old age or are hauled off to new digs due to criminal activities.

You wrote:

"I hope the FAC keeps all their promises and manages the facility in a professional manner."

What if they don't? What recourse exists? Here's the answer: None.

You wrote:

"It will be interesting to come back here in three years and see what people have to say about this project."

The neighbors will have plenty of complaints. But most people won't notice a thing. Thus, they'll willfully ignore the complaints of the facility's neighbors.

You wrote:

"I did not support this project and still have my reservations about it but I do trust Bill di Blasio who gave his personal assurances he would stay involved with the process and didn't dismiss our views as the FAC did."

What value is there in di Blasio's "personal assurances?" He's an elected official who may well lose his office in the next election. Who knows. Maybe his support for inserting criminals and nuts into rebounding neighborhoods will become the pivotal issue in the next election.

Moreover, what motivation initiated the drive to create this facility? It shouldn't come as news to anyone that the occupants of this facility will not pay taxes or improve the community with their presence. But a market-rate condo building would fill up with tax-paying members of society who would add to life in the community in every way. Instead, this valuable property has been seized for government purposes that will drain tax revenue from the public fisc.

It is not the job of government to find the most expensive strategy for providing services. However, the motives for appropriating this piece of property might involve far more than some bizarre altruism.

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 30, 2007 8:48 AM

ActionJackson, you wrote:

"FYI, the property was a DOT parking lot...owned by the "government.""

I know that. But I suppose you think since the dawn of Brooklyn it was a DOT parking lot. You can be sure there had been a dilapidated building on that site that was bulldozed after the city took it from the owner who had skipped his property tax bill for 20 years. Those days are past.

You wrote:

"The "government" deemed it underutilized and better utilized through a supportive and affordable housing facility."

Your intelligence is awesome. The "government" deemed it was under-utilizing its own property and subsequently awarded it to another gvernment entity that will impinge even more on taxpayers. Sounds like Dumb and Dumber to me.

The parking lot required virtually no maintenance or expense. The new facility will generate many bills, both financial and societal.

You wrote:

"The "government" is awarding it to a not for profit with an excellent track record."

How noble. The government is once again ensuring the under-utility of the property. The facility will be a net drain on city tax revenues. Furthermore, none of the residents will earn taxable incomes and the property will not generate property taxes. Brilliant. Projects that are financial losers should be sited in areas where land prices are lowest. Not in one of Brooklyn's hottest neighborhoods.

By the way, how about providing some supporting information for your claim that the non-profit organization is as wonderful as you believe.

You wrote:

"As far as "drain tax revenue from the public fisc," 99.9% of the new market units built in the South Slope fall under the Quality Housing or 421-a tax abatement programs, so guess what "neighborhood for nuts," the tax payers are getting even more screwed there than by a conversion of property the "government" already owns."

Not at all. Those who live in the new buildings pay income taxes, they pay for utilities and they contribute to the economic well being of their neighborhood by patronizing local establishments. Moreover, the tax-abatements are not permanent, nor do they eliminate all taxes. And they attract more development to the area.

Fourth Avenue has come a long way, but there's still some distance to cover. Third Ave and the side streets are next.

Who pays the municipal bills? The mentally ill who need supervision and heavy medication to get through the day? Drug addicts? Mothers with children, no jobs and apartments at 5th & 16th? Or taxpayers?

You wrote:

"Please do some research before spouting your Libertarian rhetoric."

Research what? How cities pay their bills? I know the answer to that. What it means when deeply troubled people are dropped into a rebounding neighborhood? I've seen it many times. They are resented and eventually a move to boot them begins.

There is no neighborhood in the city that seeks facilities like this one. Why is that?

Could it be that the reality is always bad and many people know it? Could it be that part of the decision to use this piece of real estate is based in corruption that will line the pockets of the builder with unwarranted taxpayer funds?

Will the "Re-elect di Blasio Fund" receive a nice chunk of change from those who benefit financially from this idiotic project?

Posted by: neighborhood for nuts at May 30, 2007 11:34 AM