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April 25, 2007
Ugly Cinderblock Extensions Make Bad Neighbors
A reader who has the misfortune to have had this ugly cinderblock extension and wall go up along one side of her garden wrote in for some advice last week. "The developer has left the extension unfinished on our side," she writes, "Including a pole that was painted on every side expect ours." Despite being a lawyer herself, the reader was not sure what obligation (if any) her neighbor had to either finish, or pay for finishing, the wall on her side. As it turns out, the developer did start finishing the wall yesterday, but the question is still an apt one. It's possible that the "right" thing to do and the "legal" thing to do are not the same in this case. Anyone know for sure?
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Comments
I dont know about the legal issue, but I wish I had a wall on one side of my yard as it provides a great deal of privacy and by the looks of the photo, does not seem to interfere with light. I would suggest crawling vines.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 10:32 AM
I agree with 10:32, I like walls. For privacy and blocking noise. Plus I actually like walls aesthetically. You can use crawling vines, flowering ones, and create a courtyard or enclosed garden effect. I think this lawyer is not too creative. People who are talented at design see problems as interesting challenges, not obstacles.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 10:38 AM
How can it not be blocking the light? These Brooklyn backyards are so small that walls and stockade fences make them look tiny and closed-in.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 10:45 AM
get some art up baby
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 10:46 AM
We have two-story cinder block walls on all sides of us - its actually very nice and private. Go to Loew's or Home Depot and look at their concrete paints - lots of nice colors. And, we have vines on some of the walls and sculpture on others.
To paraphrase 10:38 - when life hands you lemons...
Posted by: Halden at April 25, 2007 10:52 AM
also, it could be your opportunity to build up and out as well.
Posted by: chuck at April 25, 2007 10:55 AM
I also have a wall on one side of my garden like this, with no windows in it, and I LOVE it. I have ivy and wisteria completely carpeting this wall, a 40-odd feet high wall of green. It's fabulous. And, not to sound un-neighborly, but because the wall belongs to somebody else, I don't have to worry about the fact that vines aren't particularly good for masonry. :)
Posted by: bob999 at April 25, 2007 11:04 AM
10:45, we all can clearly see in the photo the yard is getting sunlight despite the wall. It's the lawyer's house that's creating shade, not the wall.
What affects sunlight in Brooklyn yards is not the height of a wall like this, but whether it's a North or South facing yard. Besides, there are plenty plenty of shade loving plants. There's no such thing as a yard that can't be made pleasant. Even the shady small yards. I prefer to sit in shade outside, not sunlight, hello skin cancer. What I always see in yards here is a lack of effort, not a problem inherent to the yard that makes it impossible to make a nice outdoor space. We can plainly see just from the patches of yard that is showing this lawyer hasn't done anything with that yard. It's not designed or planted. Just weeds.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 11:09 AM
So, let me guess, not a single poster here was born in Brooklyn, AND you're not about to say anything bad about huge ugly walls in yards because you don't want that opinion to affect your resale value. A neighbor traditionally speaks to a neighbor before building, letting them know what's coming, even when it's as-of-right, because that's the decent if not legally required thing to do. The builder also says, "We're putting such and such a finish on our side. Do you want us to do the same on your side or leave it alone?" Because it costs next to nothing to finish one last side, but on the other hand your neighbor has no obligation to finish their work to your taste. Good fences may make good neighbors, but people who treat neighborhoods like commodities and nothing more make both bad neighbors and bad neighborhoods.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 11:24 AM
Here in the 'burbs a homeowner is always required to give a finished side to the adjacent neighbors. This applies to fences and walls.
Posted by: priscilla at April 25, 2007 11:28 AM
I don't like decks either. So kill me.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 11:32 AM
Anon 11:24, who gives a shit whether posters here were born in Brooklyn? What an idiotic, provincial remark. Plenty of jackasses have been born and bred here--has nothing to do with whether you like a wall next to your garden. Obviously. The latter part of your post has some merit--yeah, sure, it's neighborly to inform the next-door folks what you're building, and to build and finish it properly. I'm not some speculator, and I don't think of my property as only a commodity. I'm saying that I have a wall just like this next to *my* garden--a wall that was probably built 80 years ago--and I think it's great. Without it, I'd have much less privacy in my little outdoor space.
Posted by: bob999 at April 25, 2007 11:46 AM
Correct meif I am wrong but if a climbing plant on my property weakens my neighbors wall, then I am responsible, right?
Posted by: Anon at April 25, 2007 11:48 AM
Vines such as wisteria or pyracanthus would look nice, but, think again about not being responsible for damage. Some vines "grab" any texture on the wall and actually grow into the surface, degrading the strength over time. All the ivy covered townhouses are horrible for the integrity of the brick/mortar.
If you plant the vines, YOU are responsible.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 11:49 AM
Sheesh, Anon 11:09. Why are you assuming this poor person's yard gets as much sunlight as before, just because the photo shows sunlight? What is probably happening is that this yard is getting hit by the sun either later in the day or is getting shade much earlier in the afternoon, because the sun has to rise higher than before, over the ugly wall. In the winter, she probably won't get much light at all. Just because you like to sit in the shade doesn't make it a moral failing for those who don't.
While I agree that bringing in a good designer can help minimize the impact, as a gardener, I would have a gripe against a neighbor who turned a yard where I could grow most any flower or vegetable I wanted into one where only hostas, begonias and the like could thrive.
Anyway, almost the exact same thing just happened to our neighbor farther up the block, and whatever you think of the person's creativity or lack thereof, it does affect one's enjoyment of their home. Does the offending cinder-block-building neighbor really have no obligation to at least paint the wall? Most rear facades around here are painted, which I assumed was as much a maintenance issue as an aesthetic one.
Posted by: petunia at April 25, 2007 11:52 AM
You and your kids will be long dead before any measurable degrading to mortar will be done.
Probably good idea to at least ask neighbor if you want to paint or attach anything to cinder block.
I let ivy grow up cinder block bldg against back of my yard... but owner pulls the top off (as is his right- could probably tear it completely down)when starts growing over top.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 11:56 AM
Anon 11:48, you make a good point--I would be responsible for my vines weakening my neighbors wall. Course, those vines have been there for 50 years, easy, long before my time. But you're still right.
Posted by: bob999 at April 25, 2007 12:00 PM
Explain, pls.
Neighbor insisting that I give up sunlight in my garden so that he can have extra living space = bad.
Neighbor insisting that I give up extra living space so that he can have sunlight in his garden = good.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 12:02 PM
I agree with Petunia. My next door neighbor built a two-story extension three years ago, and that wall certainly does affect the enjoyment of my patio/yard and has also increased my electric bill. Even though my backyard faces south, I have to turn on my kitchen lights at 2:30 pm with the lower angle of the sun in winter. In summer, I have to turn them on at 4:00 pm on a sunny day. (I know about CSF bulbs saving electricity costs, but they don't fit my kitchen fixtures, and I'm not about to replace the fixtures. I have CSF bulbs elsewhere in the house, so don't jump on me to change over). I also get "hit" in the face with the 25-foot high brick wall whenever I go out to my patio. I just pray that the house on the other side of me doesn't do the same thing, otherwise I'm boxed in on both sides and that for certain will affect the market value of my house when/if I put it up for sale. If I go farther out into my garden, I also feel like I'm in a fishbowl since my neighbor spends most of the time on his second-story deck. When you've lived with ample light, air, and relative privacy in your backyard for 30+ years, it's quite unnerving to no longer have it. I'm sure I'm not alone in those sentiments.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 12:12 PM
The key is to speak with your neighbor.
In order to have the wall finished you have to give the contractors permission to go on your side, Often this permission is denied, especially I may add, by citizens who work in the legal profession. If the guys cannot get to your side to parge and paint, you have to do it yourself.
Having a garden in the city is such a blessing, wall or no wall.
Posted by: crab grass at April 25, 2007 12:22 PM
Isn't this just complaining about the weather? If neighbor/developer builds and violates code/zoning, then you've got a beef. If not, you're just living in the city - which means your views/sun/etc vulnerable to construction next door or even down the block. The much more awful version of this is losing a lotline window to next door construction. But again, them's the breaks, no? If you really want unobstructed views/space etc then you pay for them.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 12:24 PM
Plant Ivy...I love the cinderblock walls in my backyard. Once the ivy grows, it's beautiful and peaceful.
Posted by: Clifton at April 25, 2007 12:32 PM
Anyone actually know the legal rights and responsibilities in this situation?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 12:32 PM
It is every New Yorker's legal right to complain bitterly about their neighbors.
Posted by: Crab grass at April 25, 2007 12:39 PM
12:12, I'm with you -- My backyard was much more private before my neighbor put a deck on their extension, and they are out there all the time so I have that fishbowl feeling whenever I go in my backyard. It's their right but it doesn't stop me from feeling annoyed, especially as the smoke from their huge grill drifts in my windows.
And a big wall or fence will absolutely create more shade and limit the things you can grow. I guess other people find that boxed-in feeling "charming" but I prefer to get more light and air.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 12:39 PM
OP,
How did they build that thing without accessing your property?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 1:09 PM
pathetic thread
Posted by: dave at April 25, 2007 1:10 PM
Living in a city, you have to put up with a lot of crap and intrusions--as noted here time and again. But the two posters complaining about the intrusiveness of their neighbors' new extensions have a right to be upset. Because we're living on top of one another we should be more, not less respectful of other's space. Just because we can build bigger--when already big houses have been fine for four or more generations--doesn't mean we should without considering impact on our neighbors. Your home is your castle, but you have to live peacefully in the kingdom. It must suck for the person who after 30 years now has to deal with somebody else's big swinging dick of a deck.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 3:19 PM
Did anyone notice 12:02pm's post pointing out the narcissistic "me first" attitude of most of these posts? It's so perfect.
It bears repeating:
"Neighbor insisting that I give up sunlight in my garden so that he can have extra living space = bad.
Neighbor insisting that I give up extra living space so that he can have sunlight in his garden = good. "
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 3:46 PM
No one is "insisting" on anything. We all concede that people have a legal right to their big swinging-dick decks (LOL). The point is, as Brownstoner said, that what is "legal" is not necessarily what is considerate of the neighbors.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 4:03 PM
3:46, think you missed that one. please try again. note the "explain, pls" header on the post you're complaining about. then give it a few seconds thought before you post again.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 4:13 PM
4:03: But why is it any more considerate to expect your neighbors to forgo their decks and explansions you can can have the kind of light and garden that you want? If a good neighbor needs to compromise, that applies to you too.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 4:21 PM
It's not illegal to blast your stereo and make your neighbors life miserable either. Still doesn't make it ok to do it.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 4:32 PM
4:21...why is it more considerate? I purchased my home because, among other things, I liked the "luxury" of a backyard, having lived most of my life (a family of four) in a four-room apartment. This expansion trend is getting somewhat out of hand. It ruins what I treasure most: the ability to enjoy my private space without people looking down on me and without having to stare at multi-story brick walls that had never existed before. If people need such super-large homes, then please don't buy a brownstone...it's not for you. Just don't take away what I love most about my home.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:05 PM
5:05, so essentially, the difference is that your tastes are superior to your neighbor's? That the thing you like is better than the thing that he likes? That, therefore, brownstones are "for you" (i.e., for people who value what you value) and not for him? I'm sorry, but I don't see the ethical high ground there.
Not to mention that, if you value outdoor privacy so highly, maybe you're the one who should be living somewhere other than in an urban rowhouse.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:18 PM
No one knows that someday a huge multi-story apartment building with many windows might be built in front of his garden. We should be able to have rights for our quality of living somehow, shouldn't we?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 6:08 PM
put up a wood fence on your side then plant vines.
Posted by: suggestion box at April 25, 2007 6:19 PM
Or, maybe a person who wants to barbecue every night on his gigantic deck should be living somewhere other than an urban rowhouse?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 6:25 PM
6:25: Or both. It is starting to sound to me like every damn person on Brownstoner should be living somewhere other than an urban rowhouse.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 6:37 PM
Crab Grass was correct:
"The key is to speak with your neighbor.
In order to have the wall finished you have to give the contractors permission to go on your side, Often this permission is denied, especially I may add, by citizens who work in the legal profession. If the guys cannot get to your side to parge and paint, you have to do it yourself.
Having a garden in the city is such a blessing, wall or no wall. "
Go to the NYC Building Code for more information.
Posted by: lawyer at April 25, 2007 7:31 PM
4:13pm, I was PRAISING that post I quoted, not complaining about it. I don't know why you missed that.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 9:49 AM
Plant vines on the wall - they will cover the unattractive cinder block. Engligh ivy will grow in some shade and it's really bad for masonry - it's "roots" will penetrate mortar and hasten the demise of the cinderblock. An attractive revenge. You may have to train the ivy at first in order to get it to climb.
Posted by: I.V. at April 26, 2007 9:29 PM
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