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April 16, 2007

Rain, Rain, Go Away

rain
Anticipation of the Nor'easter which began yesterday morning gave us uneasy flashbacks to the biblical floods of October 2005. A month after moving into our newly renovated house, we learned the hard way that the original waste line (which was made of out clay pipe back in the day) had basically disintegrated. When the pounding rains came that fall, the rain collected on the roof, ran down the drain pipe (which fed into the waste line, we learned) and smacked into the pile of earth that our century-old pipe had become. With no place else to go, the water surged up to the first point of release--the tenant's tub and toilet. We ended up having two episodes of major flooding in the apartment. Amazingly, there was only a couple of thousand dollars of damage and the parquet floors emerged unwarped. Still, to say it was a traumatic experience would be an understatement.

So we felt some sympathy for the poor Park Sloper whose clogged drain pipe (above) caused his basement to flood. There have also been some three posts (count 'em one, two, three) on the Forum so far; if you have any experience in these matters, please take a moment to lend your advice. We'd also be interested in hearing other stories of rain damage from the last 24 hours. Watcha got?
The Great Flood of Aught Seven [Flickr]

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We know that the rains did crazy damage but luckily not too bad in our Ditmas basement. Having just bought this house, we are actually quite thankful to have had this opportunity to see exactly where our weak spots are for water entry. It's quite an education so we took a ton of notes and pictures both inside & out.

Posted by: tag482 at April 16, 2007 10:44 AM

Our biggest issues are the grade in the yard, which makes water run towards our house and pool up especially around the hatch to the basement boiler room door. Late last night after the particularly bad deluge of rain, the water just poured in at the bottom of the door under the hatch, into the boiler room. Because it was too much water for the drywell drain outside the door, to pull in. We were in the basement watching TV so we caught the flooding right away, and put down towels and boxes (from our recent move) and leftover carpet pieces, anything we could find to soak it up. Which worked, so we kept the water from going all over the basement. Our yard had been cleared in Winter in anticipation of Spring garden design & planting, and now we really regret it because it has made for a lot of runoff, not having grass and weeds and plants in the yard.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 10:59 AM

Location: Court St. apt

I was sitting at my desk when all of a sudden I felt as though someone had thrown a water balloon at me!

Looking up, I saw the cieling above the window sagging and dripping really badly. It continued to drip down for the duration of the rain. The ceiling and wall were damaged in the process...

...California Dreamin'.....

Posted by: greenstoner at April 16, 2007 10:59 AM

Naturally this storm happened while we were out of town (we live in a Clinton Hill b-stone on Hall) and we learned from our house sitter that we have an inch of water puddling in center of basement. Previously it has never appeared to have any leakage, and we're at a loss to imagine where it came from. Fortunately there is nothing down there that can be damaged--just hope the incursion of agua didn't screw up anything with the house. The basement doesn't appear to have any kind of drain in it anywhere--some previous owner actually whacked a hole in the concrete in the boiler room to pour overflow into--directly into the dirt, below. Oh, the joys of old low-tech housing! Hope nobody got too much damage.

Posted by: anon at April 16, 2007 11:00 AM

Our basement hatch always leaks during a heavy rain, so we weren't surprised to see a little rivulet coming down from there. What we weren't expecting was a lot of seepage that seems to be coming from the bottom of our stone (unfinished) foundation. Is this just to be expected with 7 inches of rain and an unfinished basement? Or is there something that can be done that doesn't involve major foundation work? I am really hoping this is a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, for us and everyone else...

Posted by: petunia at April 16, 2007 11:18 AM

This is making me think about installing a sump pump in my similarly unfinished basement. It would be great to have some kind of drain in the damned thing--would love to be able to just hose it down to clean it, and also to have a way to get rid of water on a day like yesterday. Anybody ever installed such a thing in a Brooklyn brownstone and have stories of success, failure, cost? Thanks

Posted by: bob999 at April 16, 2007 11:23 AM

Mr. B,

I'm with you on the "biblical" rains of October '05, it sure seemed like 40 days and 40 nights. We had started major work renovating a South Slope frame just a day or two before that started. That rain taught us a few unpleasant truths about the scope of the work needed, but better to find out at the beginning than the end. Here's hoping you fared better this time.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 11:25 AM

My cellar flooded 1-3" for the first time I have seen in 6+ years on Hall Street. I have a drain in the center I thought was tied into the main drain but I guess its just a ground drain for boiler overflow.
I had replanted my lawn last year so it was still in the process of establishing itself and the storm has caused the soil to separate into sand and silt layers.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 11:27 AM

We have a drepressed area in the yard outside our bedroom door, which is about 5 inches deep and 20 feet by 5 feet. At 9 pm., no water had collected but by 10:30 it was full, the drain must have clogged, and the water started to come into the house. After 2 hours of bucketing water from that area all the water was removed. It was a close call, had we not been there, our bedroom would have flooded.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 11:35 AM

There are some important things to think about regarding roofs, backyards, and basements.
1. Check your roof & skylight for leaks and repair immediately. Don't wait.
2. Is the gutter clean and clear.
3. Is the leader securely connected to the gutter.
4. Where is the leader connected at the other end? It shouldn't drain into the earth which can only absorb so much water. Water finds the path of least resistance into your house.
5. If you have a drain in the backyard...which you really should have...make sure that it's free of leaves, garden debris, dirt, soil. Clean it out at least twice a year with a snake and a power nozzle on your garden hose to flush it out. I do this myself, and I'm a 5'2" woman.
6. Are your cellar hatch doors properly covered or leak-proof so that water won't come cascading into your cellar.
7. Have a sump pump installed in your cellar. I have one and, fortunately, have had to use it only three times in 30 years.
8. Make sure your next-door neighbors don't have water problems that will impact your property. If they do, and they refuse to resolve, then you've got a bigger problem.
9. Make sure your foundations are waterproofed from the outside.
10. Make sure grading is properly sloped away from the house.
I'm not a plumber but a long-time brownstoner in CG, so my suggestions come from personal experience. That's all I can think of right now; if something else comes to me, I'll post again. Hope this is helpful.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 11:39 AM

Excellent advice, oh petite Anon 11:39. Thanks.

Posted by: bob999 at April 16, 2007 11:52 AM

Yes, Petite Anon 11:39, thank you!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 12:19 PM

I heard some sort of loud, collapsing sound in the middle of the night. This morning, we found that the ceiling in a closet had collapsed, sending down at least a hundred pounds of wet debris onto the closet floor. Looking up, we realized that the closet actually had been part of the chimney on the second floor for what must have been the wood burning stove in the first floor kitchen. With the ceiling gone (someone once simply placed drywall in the space), it's a straight view up, brick on all sides (which is lucky -- the water leak was contained within the brick). Maybe a chimney cap is in order!

Posted by: PPSer at April 16, 2007 12:54 PM

Times like this and stories like this, I am glad I rent..

Posted by: AL at April 16, 2007 1:15 PM

We were still leaking as of this morning, probably still going on. It's been more than a trickle, less than a rivulet. Let's just say the equal of gallons and gallons and gallons of water over the last day. Wee.

Similar to Petunia's post at 11:18 above, seepage. Is this just an uncommon mix of massive rains, watertable issues, and minor issues with foundations that become major issues during peak storms?

Either that or we have a crack in the storm drain that starts in our back patio and goes down and through the basement.

We've had minor leakage before from massive storms, but this was just insane. Constant. Water torture.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 16, 2007 1:48 PM

Same issues, mini-stream of water pouring into the cellar from the backyard hatch and hatch walls. Ran a utility pump ($70 at Lowes) with 25-feet of hose and drained it into cellar sink. Also had to open the U-line cover of the "house drain" at the front of the house to allow wall leakage to drain away. Wasn't that bad, a few inches but only in a 5-foot area near back cellar hatch.

Here's my question: can anyone describe a "waterproofing" job for a cellar wall? I know it has to be done from the outside. Cost? Time?

My house is on the end of the row so one wall is a party wall, the either is the "Avenue" house's back yard. So I assume you need permission from your neighbor to dig a trench in their yard for the waterproofing for a sidewall, yes?

The party and front/rear walls never leaks, just the "open" one on the other side.

Posted by: berto at April 16, 2007 2:39 PM

two commercial tenants, both have a torrent of rain coming down through the roof. should i attempt to patch the roof, or find a way to divert the water flow?

Posted by: anon at April 16, 2007 2:42 PM

"Times like this and stories like this, I am glad I rent.."

yeah, that makes a ton of sense. so instead of calling today to have the problem fixed you can wait 2 weeks for your landlord to call you back and then another 2 till someone actually comes out to repair the hole in your roof.

stupid comment.

Posted by: anon at April 16, 2007 3:48 PM

Ditto on 11:39. July 2005 I think I fixed my water problems. I had masonry over brick in the back of the building, but the top of the building did not have masonry completely covering the brick, so whenever it rained heavily, water found its way into the brick where the original pointing had worn away. Essentially there were little tunnels between the bricks which then allowed water to seep into the house, wetting walls and floors.

Horrible. I had that fixed by cementing over the bricks on the roof and waterproofing the back of the house.

I eliminated the backyard hatch to the basement.

I had the gutters replaced and covered with mesh.

I had the drains cleaned out.

I had a sump pump installed in the basement too.

However, yesterday debris covered the backyard drain for long enough for water to pool by the back door and make a nice big puddle on the wood floor in my kitchen. Thank God I was around.

Now to check my parents little beach house in Staten Island. The last Nor'Easter in '92 caused a complete collapse of half the houses in their little beach community. Things could be worse for us Brownstoners....

Posted by: donatella at April 16, 2007 3:59 PM

At first, just a little trickling in from the cellar door. Then I heard a burbling from the kitchen sink so I ran downstairs to find the laundry sink POURING water into the cellar. Back-up from the city? Or some drainage issue of our own? We fortunately have a shut-off valve on there, so I could stop it, but the presence of the valve does make me wonder how often this will occurr....

Posted by: anon at April 16, 2007 4:01 PM

Our neighbor's gutter (we live in a attached row house) was clogged and started dumping GALLONS of water into our yard right at the foundation line. Next thing we know, water is pouring down the steps our boiler room. Some water always comes through the hatch doors when it rains heavily, but never like this. Upon close inspection we realize it was pouring through a crack in the brick wall by stair leading to the hatch doors. My questions, which is similar to one of the above poster's:

Does this mean we have a serious foundation problem that needs to be fixed? An how much/how hard is that to do roughly?

Also, how do you waterproof those metal hatch doors?

Posted by: anonymous at April 16, 2007 5:39 PM

Just a few important products to get familiar with:
-hydraulic cement: to patch cracks in masonry.Stops leaks and will work while the leak is in progress.
-masonry/brick sealant: sold in tubes for use with a hand held caulking gun, this stuff seals the base of your home along the foundation.
-Flashing cement: sold in 1 or 5 gallon buckets, used to spread over gaps or cracks in roofs, particularly around chimeneys and skylights, use liberally.
-Thoroseal: a paint like sealant used to cover over large areas of brick and masonry to waterproof from driving rains.Commonly used along the back walls of brownstones and along the open brick-lined air shafts of large buildings.
-Silicone sealant: used to caulk around your windows externally to prevent those pesky leaks that can run through the window frame and down the wall inside.
-Sump pit: a cube shaped hole in your basement, preferrably at the lowest point, where water runs to and can be ejected into a basement waste line by a sump pump. Can be done by the homeowner with a small jack hammer and some plumbing and basic masonry experience. A plumber will charge about three thousand.
-Rubberoid: a neat rubber based roofing material that is rolled over and heat sealed to the underlying roof. No better way to sleep well at night when you have a flat roof and a monsoon on the way.

From experience. Good luck.

Posted by: Aquaman at April 16, 2007 8:27 PM

Amazingly, we had our 130 year old sewer pipe replaced last Thursday. It had a long crack along it. I had been cursing the rain on Thursday because it delayed replacing the pipe and water pressure started to force rain water through the crack.
We feel absolutely blessed on the timing now, when the storm hit our brand new steel pipe has kept the basement dry!

Posted by: Dave BS at April 16, 2007 9:20 PM

Oh man, reading this makes me feel so much better. I'm from Miami, we don't even have basements, let alone boilers and sump pits and houses that sit on piles of rubble as their foundation. We had water gushing out of the FLOOR where the stairs from inside the house met the basement floor. For some reason, the sump pit seems to be in a HIGH part of the basement. The people who lived here before were part retards and part animals, so everything in this house is half-assed and screwed up and trash-filled and neglected. Anyway, I have friends living in the finished part of the basement, a two bedroom in good shape. We fixed some initial plumbing problems (the old owners used to empty their cat's litter box into the SINK) and thought we were okay, but this rain filled both bedrooms with 4-6 inches of water. Thankfully once the rain stopped, it drained and dried quickly. I called my friends (who were amazingly not home) and said they might have to move out...but now I'm not so sure. We have a basement fix-it company coming next week to check it all out. We also had the water in the tub and toilet problem in the basement, so maybe we have a collapsed clay pipe, too.

Just glad to read all this and realize it's not likely a problem we will have to face constantly.

Posted by: Jeremy at April 17, 2007 1:06 PM

Aquaman, brilliant post. The details you provided are extremely helpful. Thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 17, 2007 9:32 PM

Yup, thanks Aquaman. That was very helpful.

Posted by: donatella at April 17, 2007 10:28 PM

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April 16, 2007

Rain, Rain, Go Away

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