House of the Day: Willow Place on the Cheap

Seems like a real catch to me -- Willow Place is a quite beautiful street, and the extra width of this house is a godsend if you renovate.

--an architect in Brooklyn

It went to a final-closed bid last night. Twelve bids-defintely over 3Mio-but not sure how high

ugh bidding wars are soooo summer of 2005. nice house.

The one across the street was priced at 1.8 in january -- same layout roughly.

The R/S tenants across the street pay virtually nothing.

Sooner or later, the state st garage is going to go condo.

And this is _STILL_ a 10+ minute walk (uphill) to stores, subway, etc.

Maybe it's just me, but that much money for something so blah and free of detail? I don't know, maybe the width makes all the difference but there are McMansions with more detail than this place.

It's not underpriced. Everything on the marker is overpriced. Speculators have driven prices up to the point that every
person, not in the business, believes their domain is worth twice its value.You will find some broker to stroke your fantasy. Yes, the stock market, and the hedge funds have driven prices up in Manhattan. Most people who grew up in Manhattan, need the city for nourishment,Brooklyn won't do. Most people who have bought in Brooklyn over the last ten years don't seem to recognize this fact. I have a small place in Manhattan, my kids are grown, and we bought a huse house with eighty acrs a historic barn , four car garage, two ponds, and a gazebo for half the price of a Brooklyn Heights studio.
I am surrounded by my frinds, artists, writers and musicians from the city. No we won't tell you the town, we don't want you or your inflated prices to hit our town. There is no starbucks so I know we are safe for awhile.
What if you can't sell your house for what you paid for it three years ago, how will that change your life. What if
your house is worth only half what you paid. All you people who moved into neighborhoods other than Bklyn. Hts, what was your frame of reference when you paid too much, a broker who told you prices would go higher. Clearly, many of you have overpaid. Yes I am a real estate broker, and I will tell you a secret: Brooklyn has a three tier pricing system. The kid from Chicago who just sold his one bedroom in the city and has profit in his hand will pay more than a person in the know, who will pay more than a real estate broker looklng for a bargain. I might spend five hundred thousand for a fiser upper in Boerum Hill you might spend 1.5M Is my house underpriced, or is your house overpriced.

Is it just me or does any else realize that there are no subway lines in that part of BH at all? All the lines run well east of that area....so I guess Henry Street is about to come crashing down. Maybe he's confusing it with the rumble of double wide strollers

bob999, I haven't posted before, but 25 footers are incredibly expensive -- cobble hill houses that wide are running more than 3 million dollars. Why do you think this is priced so cheaply (relatively speaking)? There's been lots of discussion on this board before about those streets near the bqe/subway, so, while I have no direct knowledge, there is probably a catch with the location. The very same realtor is listing a significantly smaller house on DeGraw for more than this price (see yesterday's discussion). Why else is this much lower than other houses? My guess is it is the location. Unless Carroll Gardens has become way more expensive than Brooklyn Heights these days.

Interesting, 12:53, that you're still spending time on a Bklyn-focused web site like brownstoner when you are so happily ensconced in Green Acres. Not much else to do up there, eh? Or is it just a 'professional' interest?

With regards to 12:53 - is it possible to install, in addition to typekey, a village idiot filter?

Everyone's entitled to their opinions etc. but wtf is the value in that paragraph of drivel?

I am well aware that I can buy half of columbia county for what I paid for my brownstone but there's a reason!

I looked at some of the comps and this price is in line. Willow Place is not Willow Street. It is down the hill, close to the highway. If you look at comps for brownstones in Central Heights they are over 4 million, but in north Heights you can get cheaper places. I think anyone interested in figuring out whether it is overpriced should take a walk over there. It is a hike up the hill to the train, stores etc.

Is there a huge difference in quality between 20' and 25' wide brownstones?

I think this just shows how overpriced some neighborhoods are.

I think this just shows how overpriced some neighborhoods are.

I would not purchase a home on Willow Place period, or on State or Joralemon below Hicks.

If you live in the Heights you would know this. Only people moving from elsewhere would purchase a home below Hicks between Joralemon and State.

Take a vote for idiot of the day- choices below.
Probably all the same loser made all 3 comments.

" Only people moving from elsewhere would purchase a home below Hicks between Joralemon and State."

"Carroll gardens is blue collar and the heights is white collar"

"All you people who moved into neighborhoods other than Bklyn. Hts, what was your frame of reference when you paid too much, a broker who told you prices would go higher. Clearly, many of you have overpaid. Yes I am a real estate broker, and I will tell you a secret: Brooklyn has a three tier pricing system"

"Is there a huge difference in quality between 20' and 25' wide brownstones?"

There's a huge difference in flexibility for renovation. A 25-wide means there's enough space for e.g., a powder room on the parlor floor w/o taking space from a traditional front/back parlor combination. Also, a kitchen can be paired with a real dining space in the back -- this is otherwise something of a squeeze.

--an architect in Brooklyn

"I would not purchase a home on Willow Place period, or on State or Joralemon below Hicks.

If you live in the Heights you would know this. Only people moving from elsewhere would purchase a home below Hicks between Joralemon and State."

When we were looking to buy, that was the only area that interested us. Seemed less, I dunno, pretentious than up the hill.

I live on Pierrepont and would LOVE a house in willowtown. I know of a couple of houses that have had some issues but those are the older (pre-1900) places right above the IRT

so, it's been sold, I take it?

Or the more reason to live "down the hill"...less of a douche factor

Why not 100 mil 2-beds and $75 pints of beer? If ya can't pay, stop using air other people need, won't you?

Thank God somebody's got the decency to lead the cheers as we go ever onward and upward.

5:38pm,

you can still get a Federal style 1855 25 foot wide brick townhouse in Allentown, PA (hour and half drive from nyc) for less than 200k.

what's your point?

Yup, 6:16, here's a townhouse in Allentown that's got to be at least a 25 footer. http://media.rapmls.com/lvarmls/listingpics/tmbphoto/048/269048.jpg. Good point!

Woops - 6:48 here. Here's the link to the Allentown house.

http://media.rapmls.com/lvarmls/listingpics/tmbphoto/048/269048.jpg

Sorry, but they have the same old townhouses, same fireplaces, everything, that you folks love in NYC in Allentown for less that 200k. I've seen them.

So much for feeling superior!

And Billy Joel wrote songs about them both! And I can tell you the Piano Man knows Allentown Man doesn't want him around, anyhow. Maybe with all one could save you could afford a helicopter share in Pennsy, but unfortunately Allentown comes with the lovely house.

Here's a cute one in Allentown that just sold for under 135k.

It's small, but I often see houses twice as big for closer to 200k that look just like the one discussed here but with much more detail. Check out this cheap house. Moldings, doors, and fireplaces are on par with the stuff you folks claim is worth millions!

Somebody is getting seriously ripped off!

http://www.trulia.com/property/1033352710-321-N-Franklin-St-Allentown-PA-18102

25' Brownstone on Willow Place goes for $3mm. If it were in any other part of Brooklyn Heights it would easily sell for over $4mm.

Why? Put 2 and 2 together.

Allentown is an hour and a half drive from the city. It takes an hour for many people in Park Slope to commute to their jobs in Manhattan.

Allentown isn't that bad. It looks like most of Brooklyn. Certainly your odds of getting mugged are about equal in either local.

I agree location, location, location . . . that's why the house in the West Village is priced so much higher than the one in Brooklyn. Ten years ago the price ratio between the two was about the same.

If you think somebody is getting a deal in Brooklyn buying that house, you're nuts. Three million (plus a million to renovate) AND a commute!!! Are you kidding? In the West Village you can roll out of bed and be in the best neighborhood in the world by stepping outside.

I love Brooklyn, but I'm no sucker.

It's all about the commute. Lots of Park Slope folks spend about an hour commuting to Manhattan.

100,000 people live in Allentown and even more in neighboring Bethleham. What's your point?

Are folks who live outside NYC not people?

I've been saying prices in NYC would fall for years and it hasn't happened. Does that mean it won't happen? No, it means it hasn't happened yet.

3 million for a fixer upper in Brooklyn Heights is plain wack. Try to rent the place and you'll still be out of pocket at least 10k a month towards your mortgage.

It's nuts plain and simple.

Who the hell was an hour long commute to Manhattan?

It takes half an hour to get to Midtown--less if you work downtown. That's why Park Slope is so pricey.

If it takes you an hour to get to work from Park Slope, you must work for Columbia U.

Claiming $1000/sq ft is a good deal is nuts for a townhouse across the river from Manhattan far from Prospect Park.

Just cause brokers bark something in your ear enough times doesn't make it true!

And I live in a building I own in lower Manhattan -- I don't rent!

Nobody knows what the market is up to. It could go either way, hence the anxiety and aggression (on both sides) on this thread.

- a psychoanalyst in Manhattan

JohnR, no sense responding to scarab.

You can't reason with drunks or fools.

this thread is getting so depressing... This is a well priced house for the market in the neighborhood. Whether you are agree with that mrket is another matter. I love (and live in) the heights and find such prices to be bordering on reasonable, altho I can't afford them myself. It is a nice life there. why is everyone so bitter? By the way, I used to live in the W. Village and I actually prefer the heights.

I prefer Allentown!

What's your point?

Your logic definitely applies to places where people were buying 2nd and 3rd summer houses as "investments du jour", 2:19. But here in NYC we all can only afford one property inside NYC, that's the one we live in! People might drop their weekend houses on LI, sure.

Anxiety and aggression. Yup, psychoanalyst in Manhattan, you seem to have that right.

I'd like to schedule an appointment!

To all those worrying about my bucolic self. That was a price mark I was comparing apples to oranges.Yes, I live here, make my livlihood in real estate for the last thirty five years. I was stating
what twenty or thirty of my fellow professionals stated over coffee. Is the market fueled by people who are not New Yorkers, you betcha, are prices too high, you betcha. So you paid three million for a house in Cobble Hill; you don't think yu paid too much. Did a broker state you were getting a great deal. I will tell you that if Willow sells for under three mill and you paid close to three mill in a less desirable location.
Someone didn't calculate properly. Last year, there was an open house near my office in Cobble Hill. A young man came in and asked me if a wooden house a block from the housing project was worth
1.5M. I told him price is dependent on many things besides value. How much do you really like the block and the house. I am sorry most of you have overpaid, in a three tier market someone
must pay more. I know it only takes one buyer to sell a house. We all remember what Barnum said. I bought my coop in 1979, I paid a fair price for my apartment. Others in the building had paid more. I have one of the more desirable locations in the city and have views of the park. I wouldn't live in a
dark brownstone with wicdows on two sides. Not for the kind of money you are
paying. You have no windows, the only floor that gets any light is the parlor floor. You paid what? You have no windows. You have no views. Oh that's right, if yu go to your roof you can see
New York City. Now there will be those, who will have something argumentative to say, guaranteed you paid too much, and you are planning on doubling your money in three years or less. Do you have a fabulous space, would you know one if you so one. I have been selling BROWNSTONES FOR A LONG TIME, THERE HAVE BEEN THREE OUT OF SEVERAL THOUSAND THAT STAY IN MY MIND; THE REST. NOT SO GOOD.

AN HONEST REALTOR

The Old Realtor

Old Realtor,

That was the some of the most inane, incoherent drivel I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

It reads like it was written by someone who's functionally retarded. Besides being riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Seriously, you would do well to take a remedial English class at your local elementary school.

No one gives a shit what you think (who would listen to an uneducated moron like you?), and no one is worrying about your "bucolic self".

Scarab, just how do you figure Old Realtor "knows the Brooklyn market" well? Nothing in his twaddle indicates any real estate expertise. That is, other than the fact that he calls himself a broker.

Wait--just remembered you're the idiot who's predicting a 50% drop in real estate prices.

Regarding your last post at 1:50, I'll just chalk it up as a case of moron defending moron.

Do you really think that Old Realtor's observation that brownstones don't have side windows means that he "knows the Brooklyn market and knows it well"?

What are you, stupid?

That makes him Captain Obvious. That doesn't make him an expert on Brooklyn brownstones or real estate.

Prices are bound to "fall precipitously"? Again, you portend a massive price drop! Tell me, are prices going to drop 50% simply because, "the real estate market moves in cycles" (post 2:19, April 20)? Or are you going to say that since you could've purchased a property much cheaper a few years ago, prices are bound to fall 50% (post 11:12, April 20)?

Seriously, you are a mental midget.

P.S. You misspelled "genious", genius.

Wow, everyone seems to be frothing at the checkbook. Sorry, many of you have paid too much for your digs. Many of you were
caught up in the frenzy.Yes, your house is
a very important investment, but more importantly it is the place you live. Be happy, stop worrying about sticker shock.

To the young man who was worried about my spelling mistakes, don't be. Worry about the price you paid for your cozy
digs. Yes, realtors get together and laugh at market prices. In 1955, houses in Carroll Gardens were selling for five grand. No one wanted to live there except poor blue collar workets. In 1976
you could buy a limastone in Park Slope for twenty grand.

Have a wonderful life, stop worrying about real estate.
If you think you paid too much, you probably did. So what, you are living in your investment.

The Realtor

Wow, everyone seems to be frothing at the checkbook. Sorry, many of you have paid too much for your digs. Many of you were
caught up in the frenzy.Yes, your house is
a very important investment, but more importantly it is the place you live. Be happy, stop worrying about sticker shock.

Yes, realtors get together and laugh at market prices. In 1955, houses in Carroll Gardens were selling for five grand. No one wanted to live there except poor blue collar workets. In 1976
you could buy a limastone in Park Slope for twenty grand. Please stop comparing
Brooklyn to Manhattan, only a non=native
could, would be guilty of such a somparison.

Have a wonderful life, stop worrying about real estate.
If you think you paid too much, you probably did. So what, you are living in your investment.

The Realtor

We left the village in 1970, and bought in Park Slope. Two salaried civil servants,we could not afford the Slope today. Salaries haven't kept up with real estate prices. I believe the market was fueled by itself. Selling high, buying bigger with the profits, is a theme running through all neighborhoods. I Don't
see the value today. I really don't. I am glad brokers are telling me that I can receive over two mill for my house.
I still think it's all crazy. We will eventually reverse move, and move back to the city into a smaller space.

According to the NYT, manhattan THs have
lost eight percent of their value in the
last year. Is Brooklyn following the
curve, or making its own curve. Is it a
great deal, or are you paying too much.
I can understand if you bought in the last three years you could be sweating.
Do you need to make money on your home,
what if it only worth ten percent more than you paid for it. Is that the worst thing that could happen. Do you feel richer in a bull market than a bear
market. I know a psychotherapistwho only gets 500 per hour the first visit.
He lives in Park Slpe, paid seventy five
dollars a sq. ft. years and years ago.
It's so easy to rattle your tree.

Anonymous at 1:18, that was a truly idiot, nonsensical post. Were you drunk or high when you wrote that? Or are you just a moron?

Are you related to old realtor by any chance?

Please point out the article regarding the drop in Manhattan townhouse values, because I don't think it exists.

According to every source I could find, the median prices of Manhattan townhouses were HIGHER than the year before:

http://www.therealdeal.net/issues/NOVEMBER_2006/1162318656.php

I'd post the link to the Bloomberg article where it stated that Manhattan townhouse prices rose 63% (from mid-2005 to mid-2006), but I don't think I need to point out any further what an imbecile you are.

Anon 2:19,

I won't call you any names because I stopped doing that when I grew up. Didn't your mother ever teach you manners? You might want to visit a professional to work out those anger issues. It's not normal to call people insultful names for disagreeing with you. It makes you sound like a spoiled lonely child.

Or are you just angry because you paid a lot recently for a property, as Old Realtor suggests, and you don't like hearing bad news?

Or are you a real estate agent pissed off because business is slow?

What's your beef?