After Three Strikes, Is Recent Bed-Stuy Arrival Out?

Makes one question our gun control laws, even when I know how important they are.

My gut tells me it's time to go. What evidence is there that things will get better anytime soon?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:36 AM

Is this bad luck or is this person making bad decisions and putting himself in bad situations? Carrying himself wrong?

Maybe its a bad block...

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:38 AM

greenwood hgts isn't safe, either. our house was broken into last year. then last week, some drunk dood sent my wife into a panic cause he was trying to steal my bike, which locked up on our front stoop. she was worried he was going to try and shoot her through the door.

some of the hipster glam rubbing off, i guess, and bklyn is reverting to old school. not much you can do.

stay if you want. leave if you want. you're lucky to have the choice. many (most) don't have unlimited mobility.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:42 AM

Hate to blame the victim, but who moves in to a house at 1:00 AM? I've lived in Brooklyn for over 20 years, and it is clearly much safer than it used to be. That said, you still need to be savvy. I live in Boerum Hill and am amazed to see people walking around late at night with their IPODs on. It's just asking for trouble.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:45 AM

I've been living in Bed-Stuy for 2 years now, and never had any problems. My neighbors are friendly, and even helpful.

The only time I've been harrassed on the street was in Fort Greene (!) where a young teenage girl came up behind me out of the blue and hit me on the back for no reason at all...

It's not always about the hood, sometimes it's about the timing, and using some common sense - not sure it's safe to be out at 1 am anywhere in the city, unloading a moving truck.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:46 AM

I really feel for you. I live in Clinton Hill and have not had any problems in the past 5 or so years.

What part of Bed Stuy does this person live in? I stress that I'm not blaming the victim, but you really have to keep your wits about you and use common sense pretty much anywhere in the City, especially neighborhoods with high crime/mugging incidents. I'm always extremely cautious when moving - never late at night, etc.

I'd also ask your neighbors about their experiences and advice if they are not being mugged. You might be putting yourself in harms way out of ignorance of bad streets to walk down etc.

Heck, I remember in the 80s certain blocks on the east side of mid town manhattan that were not safe to walk on at night.

As you walk around, be aware of your surroundings. Pretend your in another country on vacation where you stick out and crime can be an issue and keep your wits about you.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:57 AM

It's a personal decision. I can't say that I'm surprised though, because as the above posters pointed out, just because you moved there and spent a lot of money to do so doesn't automatically mean the neighborhood is going to change overnight. Real estate booms don't change neighborhoods, no matter how much you wish they did.

Part of it is also common sense - as someone else pointed out, why would you unpack at 1 am in the rain? In ANY neighborhood?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:58 AM

What a bunch of b.s. This guy was out at 1a.m. with $500 bucks in his pocket. Hey, I got mugged at 2:00 in the afternoon on the corner of Park Avenue and 89th Street. All those doormen didn't do a thing. Crime happens. Get over it or move out to the suburbs (where you'll likely get run down by a drunk teenager in a used SUV).

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:02 AM

I've lived in Bed-Stuy for over three years and never had any real problems. Of course I do think about it after hearing stories like this. I've walked home from the subway too late a few times, but for the most part I'm leaving the subway with a group of people and I feel pretty safe.

It can happen anywhere. I personally know of two incidents of people being help up by gunpoint, one in front of their prime Fort Greene brownstone, one in Williamsburg. It's horrible when it happens anywhere to anyone. I'm sorry you've had to experience this so many times.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:05 AM

I remember how the muggers would wait for those Prat students, especially the Asian ones, coming home late or simply waiting for the bus on Myrtle Ave in broad daylight They were like ATM's to the local kids. Hey want to go to McD's?, lets mug that skinny art student over there.

Another case of "White man wishes to throw one good punch before he's to old" syndrome. Good thing the guy doesn't own a gun.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:05 AM

I remember when I moved to the upper east side in the '94. Every single person I knew had been mugged within 6 months. It was just part of living in nyc. I never have been but I think brooklyn is the way the rest of the city used to be. I don't think it should be that shocking. I think you can do alot to avoid it too, but sometimes its just timing.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:09 AM

10:37,

If you're implying that Greenwood Heights is as rough as Bed-Stuy, then you've lost all credibility. Bed-Stuy has improved in terms of safety, but it sure ain't Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. The precinct crime rates say it all. Meanwhile, be careful and use some common sense to protect yourself.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:11 AM

the best response i have seen so far is on the blogger's actual site. a comment by jake was reasonable, intelligent and balanced. sadly, that sort of commentary seems to be beside the point based on the posts listed above. i like this blog, i think it's a valuable resource for anyone considering or living in brooklyn. a lot of the comments, however, with exceptions of course, are juvenile, dumb and just plain mean spirited.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:14 AM

Eh I don't think 10:37 was saying that just saying that Greenwood Heights is not all that and it isn't. Most of the posters are right you can do a lot no matter where you live to reduce your chances of being a victim of a crime. At the same time stuff happens everywhere. The only place I've been mugged is upstate.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:19 AM

Every investment has a risk. I don't think the prices of condos/brownstones in Bed-Sty and Bushwick reflect the risk. The prices on new developments and brownstones in areas like these are not a steal considering that you pay in other ways to live there. I'd rather buy a shoebox in a better area and trade up than buy in an area I don't feel comfortable. p.s. mugged in Ft Greene 2 years ago at 8 PM. All it takes is a dark block and no one around to make for a perfect opportunity.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:27 AM

Crime can happen anywhere -- a friend of mine lives in Brooklyn Heights and a rapist attacked women in her building on two separate occasions. If Eating for Brooklyn wants to stay, he should first of all be careful and savvy and second of all get involved with the community safety meetings and block association (or start a block assn if there isn't one). True, it's a bit of a hassle, but getting involved and getting to know your neighbors is what makes blocks safe. Also, if this guy was really so scared, why didn't he just hand over the 500 bucks? Safety is more important than money -- don't push your luck with a mugger!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:32 AM

If you want a "cheap" brownstone, then you pay for it in other ways like safety.

No area is 100% safe.....but Bed Stuy is not as safe as Bay Ridge, Bushwick is not as safe as Park Slope, etc..

It doesn't matter if its not fair - its the way it is. I feel bad for the people who are victimized by the violent criminals that are running all over new york. But it doesnt mean you are the same risk everywhere. And if you choose to live in an area with higher crime, you have to know there is some risk involved.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:32 AM

You can get mugged anywhere in Brooklyn

BUT

You are more likely to get mugged in some parts of Brooklyn than others.

Why is it so unreasonable to say that?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:57 AM

Uh, am I the only one who thinks I would be cutting my losses after three muggings?

Have a little sympathy for this dude.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:02 PM

All neighborhoods change. Even neighborhoods that seemed like they would never improve have, in fact, dramtically improved. Bed Stuy has the most remarkable and largest concentration of brownstones on the planet.

Stay! The neighborhood needs you!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:16 PM

Get a couple of big dogs.

Or leave.

I got attacked (punched in the head, a millimeter from my eye, with a friggin KEY) at 56th and 6th Ave in manhattan.

I'd rather get mugged in Bed Stuy ANY DAY.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:16 PM

Under Bush, poverty is way up while more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few. You live near people who live below the poverty line. I believe that the jobless rate for black men in Bed-Stuy is above 50%!

You should stay but be smart. Please take care of yourself.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:21 PM

ronnie, some people would rather risk an occasional mugging than have to put up with the kinds of people who live in the areas you listed. It's just how you weigh your options. I'd pay more to live in FG than I would to live in any of those areas, muggings or not.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:22 PM

Stones and bottles thrown at you occassionally thoughout the year????!!!! My God. Are you a gay couple? No way I'm saying that you deserve to go thru that, but if you are, why the hell would you move to Bed-Stuy???? Did you expect more open-minded people there?

There's so much anger and resentment there. They know how much those brownstones cost, and when they certain people there, hell, they just assume you're rich and an easy target. Even in 2003 those prices were still high.

Anyway, I feel for you. The stress of living in some of those neighborhoods takes a tremendous toll on both the physical and mental health. That's one of the reasons why high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes in Bed-Stuy are among the highest rates in the city.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:23 PM

you know what you can handle. be happy and enjoy your life. if it isn't working for you, move. only you know.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:42 PM

bro, three strikes and you're out. simple as that. come on dude you are, obviously, an ideal target in the hood...

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:57 PM

what bad luck. i think it's a combination of how you carry yourself and luck. i grew up in brookly and been to more questionable neighborhoods in all 5 boroughs than anyone i know and never been mugged. i have heard many stupid racist and sexual comments (i am a petite asian woman). funny enough, the most physically harrasment i got was last summer in broad daylight in dumbo in the park less than 50 feet away from the park ranger when a young man grabbed my foot as i was walking. thinking back i let my guard down and let that young man follow too close to me without turning back and letting him know that i was aware of him.

as an aside, i bought in sunset park 2 years ago, and not in the better part. after the first few weeks, i am comfortable there except for the dog crap.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:01 PM

"Pricing people out of neighborhoods is horrible (I'm priced out of ever buying in mine, which I love), but say this for gentrification -- diminishing street crime is a *good thing.* Finding a way to upgrade neighborhoods and create new opportunities for existing residents without displacing them is the right way to do it; like everyone, I'm frustrated that isn't what happens."

It would be nice if that happened, but I think that's a dream - when you hear about crimes and muggings in gentrifying areas it's because the people there are angry and frustrated that they are losing their neighborhood, and that results in understandable frustration (not that if it were me I'd take it out by mugging someone at gunpoint). Not every neighborhood wants to be "gentrified" by a Starbucks and pretentious restaurants (although I think it's obvious that most would love less crime, rich or poor). And make all the arguments for gentrification, but it simply emphasizes the tension between the rich and the poor. Maybe in 30 years that won't be so obvious, but it many of these neighborhoods that tension will remain for a while, and those that choose to buy there have to be wise to that - understanding about their neighbors concerns AND streetwise.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:09 PM

wtf? Assaulting someone with a bottle is assault with a dangerous weapon. Buy a gun and use it.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:25 PM

Get a big dog - scary-looking, but sweet-natured. There are tons of pit mixes you can adopt.

BTW, EFB, you have way more courage than I - I would have moved after the second incident.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:36 PM

Agree with 1:09. Everyone here thinks gentrification is such a great thing, mostly out of false hope it's going to push all the "undesirables" out the neighborhood. But it's not working that way. With Section 8, projects, and other factors it's the poor who will be the last to move out.

Who gets pushed out of these neighborhoods - working class, lower middle class, and the middle class - people that these neighborhoods ACTUALLY need. All these wealthy people moving into Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Fort Greene (and please don't cry, oh I'm not rich - if you can buy an $800,000 home you're practically in the top 10% of the country.) are not necessarily making things better for everyone in these communities. They're creating more class and social turmoil, and extremes like this, wealthy people vs extreme poor, well, expect a pressure cooker situation.

Prices HAVE to come down to give regular working class and middle class a better, opportunity to live in these hoods. Not people who are demanding gourmet coffee shops and speciality cheese stores, but at lease insist on clean supermarkets that everyone can afford to go. People who will be sending their kids to the local public schools (yeah, mostly because they can't afford private schools) but will attend PTAs and be involved, whose children will help have a stabilizing effect on other kids.

Working class folks care about their neighborhood, will sweep their porch steps, and maintain their properties, if they're not spending more than half their monthly income on just the mortgage. and yes, I'll say it, Brown and Black faces that will not be so intimidating, that will blend in and not be the constant reminder to those struggling what they lack and their status on the totem pole of capitalism.

Until that happens, a million dollar home in these neighborhoods is a horrid waste. And people who move into those homes will be putting themselves in harm's way.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:41 PM

jesus. hard to believe people still have the nerve to type out the "crime as a result of gentrification" argument. so prior to gentrification, when poor people mugged other poor people, what was the justification then? preposterous. the ONLY difference is that gentrification brings affluent people who complain more loudly about crime, post about it on blogs, etc. which by the way is a good thing, if it brings more attention to the problem.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:51 PM

"move to the safer parts of brooklyn for less. bensonhurst and gravesend is cheaper and better."

All I can say to that is, eeewhh. Not even if it were free.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:56 PM

EFB--

My neighbor, who owns in the neighborhood, has been mugged 3 times as well-- all three times by the gang of teens that hang out around the Utica Avenue stop on the A. My neighbor is a young, professional, black gay man who, unfortunately, likes to listen to his ipod or chat on his cell on the way home from the subway late in the evening. He's gone through the same thought process as you, and decided to stay, although he's decided to stow the cell and ipod in his bag until he gets home.

I think I probably live near you in Bed Stuy-- we've been here since 2003 as well and never had a problem, and whether it's dumb luck, wrong place-wrong time, or something else, I'm sorry you've had this happen to you so many times. As above, being more aware, joining/forming your block association, talking to the neighbors, etc. are helpful and constructive ideas. I also do think that 1.36 pm and others' comments about getting a huge scary-looking dog would be quite effective as well, on two counts-- people are are more likely to leave you alone when accompanied by one, and since you'll need to walk him every day you can use that opportunity to get to know many more of your neighbors. I walk my dog every morning and evening on all of the streets between Halsey and Chauncey and I've made many friends on these blocks-- and not all of them are dog owners, surprisingly. Maybe raising your profile in the neighborhood with the good folks might make you feel better about living in BS?

And for those of you making the argument that these poor criminals are just mugging people because they have no other options in life, save it. They’re mugging people because they’re sociopaths who think the world owes them something. They have no respect for others; it has nothing to do with gentrification. Yeah, like there was no crime whatsoever in Bed Stuy before the rich yuppies moved in and made everyone feel all displaced and shit. Give me a break.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:26 PM

I'm all for stopping gentrification, lets get back on with slumification.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:43 PM

And by "hip" you mean relatively low crime, because we all know hip = high-crime.

I love the "crime can happen anywhere" platitudes. I presume they are all written by mathematically-challenged liberal arts graduates.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:00 PM

There are vast stretches of Bed-Stuy without any projects.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:04 PM

hey 3.09, go volunteer in Calcutta mr-holier-than-thou.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:14 PM

Stop snitching,

Why not give classes on how to deal with low-lifes, thugs, and criminals since you sound so good at it? Maybe you could teach at a community college "Dealing with Deviants 101".
Stop blaming the victim, and being so cold and so superior.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:22 PM

When I visit my white friends who live in black neighborhoods, Harlem now or Fort Greene back in the day, I am always suprised by the level of hostility on the street to whites from black teens. Whenever I mention this to white people who live in the neighborhoods, they are in complete denial as are my black freinds.

Obviously its not the majority that is the problem, but there is no denying that there is a criminal element that targets white and asian people.

I don't know how many times I have seen white people attacked in a black neighborhoods, its more common in Philly and DC, sometimes its not even a mugging, but just a hard smack for laughs.

What's crazier is that white people don't fight back, but just take it. I don't know if its white middle class guilt or what, but unless you stand up for yourself low lifes will take advantage of you. I think alot of it is how you carry yourself. Keep your wits and act like you belong and don't back down.

Now if there were a series of attacks by whites in Brooklyn or Harlem targeting blacks, do you think the NY Times would cover it? Of course they would, but you never hear about this phenomenon in the press. Pathetic.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:27 PM

3:40pm you are completely incorrect. Brooklyn Heights started the "shift" to the brooklyn market, followed by Williamsburg.

Please do some research before openning your mouth.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:51 PM

Common sense, yes, but criminals don't have common sense and do unexpected things in unexpected places at unexpected times. You can't blame the victim AND you can't congratulate yourself for being so smart if you've never been robbed. Sometimes, it's just bad luck. Having said that, I would ask OP to ask himself: are these the only three bad things to go down in four years? Bad luck plus carelessness. Do you have other problems on your block (tough guys, noisy parties, excessively late street activity, drugs, empty houses or SROs)? If so, then why stay. You've probably made enough since 2003 to try someplace safer because right now, and understandably so, that's your big issue. No guarantees of safety anywhere--Newsflash: people in the burbs get robbed--but another nabe might have a better vibe for you.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:57 PM

"i doubt many of the white people who move into bed stuy LOVE it." - because you're in on the consensus of poor white folks in big bad bedstuy amongst (gasp) people who aren't white.

you're pretty stupid for that comment.

I read all the comments and I decided not to comment at but this is just getting out of control. first of all, as a young professional black woman living in stuyvesant heights I was walking home from subway on nostrand with my notorious big hoodie, black sweats and timberlands and was slapped in the back of the head by a group of kids who I believe would have tried to attack me had I not immediately turned from victim to ass-kicker (risking my life as they could have clearly shot me if they wanted to). I was so pissed I chased them as far as I could until stopped by one of my neighbors. I said that to say it could happen to anyone. I'm not white, or gay, or new to the nabe so its ridiculous to say 'why would you move to bedstuy if you're gay'.

EFB I admire your courage to stand up for your decision and follow your dream to own a brownstone as I understand its easy to be discouraged by idiots who say stuff like "move to the other side of flatbush" or "you couldn't pay me to live in bedstuy" - good, we won't. I totally understand what its like to be caught up in the craziness of a move well into the early am. no, I don't believe a mugger would have known that you have money in your pocket 1am in the morning but the fact that you were moving meant you were new to the nabe and you may not have been very alert because it was raining and you were just trying to be over and done.

I'm really sorry that happened to you and I know it must be frustrating and scary but don't be run out of a place you truly enjoy because of a few jerks.

if you continue to get attacked it may be because they're targeting you. word gets around the neighborhood about everything. perhaps you should be more alert and get something to make you feel safe. for me, I got a boyfriend who was 290lbs, 6'6" and it worked like a charm. when I'd walk down the street I'd hear the neighborhood guys whispering 'don't mess with lil' mama thats big man's girl'. that said, some people can really get away with walking the street alone. sometimes it takes a little more to feel protected. my advice would be to take on a 'I'm tired of ppl f@$%^&g with me' attitude and show that you're not scared by walking with confidence. good luck with your stay in brooklyn if you choose to stay, if not, chalk it up to life experience.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:58 PM

Stop Snitching: Obviously your average criminal was stoopid as f--k if he couldn't even take the $500 off his average white guy target.

In general: MAJOR TENSION IN THE 'HOOD. So much for diverstiy. People just do not like change. "There goes the neighborhood" is what a lot of people are thinking when they see the hipsters, white guys, etc. . . moving in. And the resentment is palpable.

Does it deserve violence? No. But violence is an inevitable result. It's the easiest way to respond to a situation that's out of one's control.Sad but a fact.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:00 PM

anon 3:58 here - oh yea and I second someone else who said that many parts of bedstuy are farther than a lot of "nicer" neighborhoods from the nearest housing project. in nyc everyone is a stone throw from public housing but bedstuy is one of the largest neighborhoods in the COUNTRY stuyvesant heights is definitely farther away from the projects than other neighborhoods like ft greene, and other neighborhoods that are considered "nicer"

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:02 PM

on a completely off note..why do "professional" black people, always have to state that they are "professional" black people...what the heck does that mean anyway???

nways....carry on

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:05 PM

anon 405 professional black ppl have to make the distinction lest they be categorized as one of the loser kids in the neighborhood who are throwing bottles at ppl, wouldn't want all black people to be put in the same category now would we? its the same reason why people think its relevant that he's white and gay - its important when people are implying that your race, social status, sex and profession makes a difference.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:10 PM

Anonymous 4:05 PM, perhaps they mention it because of the sheer ignorance of some, who assume that gentrification equates automatically to "whites" moving into a neighborhood. When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:15 PM

4.15, you'll have a tough time educating the race monomaniacs here on that.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:26 PM

3:51 you are kidding, right? No, you're probably not.

Ok. Here's the thing. There are these things called "books" and also something called the "Internet" (it's the same thing you are using to make words with right now!) You can use them both to research this thing called "history", where you can learn about what happend a long, long time ago in New York. Like 20 years ago, or even longer!

P.S. - If you look really, really far back? Like hundreds of years ago, way before Instant Messaging or even TV? You'll find that Brooklyn Heights was a high-end place from a long time ago! Crazy!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:28 PM

4:28, So was most of brownstone brooklyn. You're a dumbass.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:41 PM

There was a time when Brooklyn, including Brooklyn Heights, was not considered a prime NYC residential location - Manhattan was.

Do some more research, 4:28. I'm thoroughly convinced, given the limitations of your vocabulary, that you can't be any older than 16, and am now annoyed that I bothered responding to you.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:46 PM

Hey, 4:46, it's 4:28 here. Seriously. Try "Google" or one of those other new-fangled "search engines" i've heard about. It will tell you that Brooklyn Heights was the original high-end neighborhood in New York City. Poor people lived and worked in the city, while rich people took these things called "ferries" to Brooklyn. That's why there are so many nice "houses" there - because that's where rich people lived.
Alternately skip it and just go back to Curbed.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:52 PM

i'm totally appalled by everyone playing the race card, especially since EFB never once mentioned the race of his attackers (or his own race, for that matter).

it's about poverty, people, and lack of education and opportunity, not race or gentrification.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:55 PM

"...When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift."

What's going in these hoods are both Race and Class. Starting in the 1990s, college-educated blacks were starting to move back into Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene-Clinton Hill. Some grew up there and instead of moving away to the suburbs or other areas after college they came back, some were new who, after growing up on Spike Lee movies, rap which was more political or cultural back then, and the whole "black pride" thing going on, moved in as well. It was a Cultural Rennaissance, of sorts, and the crack epidemic was waning and crime went down, so things changed positively.

Some whites were moving in too, and let's not forget, there were ALWAYS a handful of whites who lived there, but it was different. Some were social worker/teacher types, some artists, and it wasn't a sense that they were very different from everyone else economically. Many lived thru the crime wave of the eighties and were still there.

Then came the real estate boom in late nineties, and prices shot up. Now when new people move in, particurly whites, people know that those newbies have more money. Also many moving in are naive about where there are, and people can sense it. Crime is still there. Poor kids seem more desperate and angry than ever. and they're taking advantage of those they consider easy targets with money. It's a shame, but I think it will only get worse.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:57 PM

Just because it's still well maintained and "nice" doesn't make it prime.

"Brooklyn Heights was the original high-end neighborhood in New York City."

Exactly. Fast forward now...when Wall Street money decided that they no longer found manhattan to be the place where they wanted to spend big money on their homes and were looking towards Brooklyn, they chose Brooklyn Heights - not Park Slope.

When Brooklyn Heights became "old news" they shifted focus to Williamsburg.

The only people that believe they started any type of trend when they moved to Park Slope, are those that live their.

For the record, there are a number of brooklyn brownstone neighborhoods that were affluent "originally". Google is fun when you need a quick fact check. I prefer history volumes.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:10 PM

"When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift." What's going in these hoods are both Race and Class. Starting in the 1990s, college-educated blacks were starting to move back into Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene-Clinton Hill. Some grew up there and instead of moving away to the suburbs or other areas after college they came back, some were new who, after growing up on Spike Lee movies, rap which was more political or cultural back then, and the whole "black pride" thing going on, moved in as well. It was a Cultural Rennaissance, of sorts, and the crack epidemic was waning and crime went down, so things changed positively. Some whites were moving in too, and let's not forget, there were ALWAYS a handful of whites who lived there, but it was different. Some were social worker/teacher types, some artists, and it wasn't a sense that they were very different from everyone else economically. Many lived thru the crime wave of the eighties and were still there. Then came the real estate boom in late nineties, and prices shot up. Now when new people move in, particurly whites, people know that those newbies have more money. Also many moving in are naive about where there are, and people can sense it. Crime is still there. Poor kids seem more desperate and angry than ever. and they're taking advantage of those they consider easy targets with money. It's a shame, but I think it will only get worse "

OMG...I've soo given this same speech to people. I was surprised when people started talking about CH an FG been gentrified over the course of the last few yrs..because that's what it was called when I moved here in the late '80s

ohh..those were the days of wine and roses

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:37 PM

David, no one was saying that crime didn't exist in Bed-Stuy before. I think some are saying it's different. Back then it was the crack epidemic and drug dealers. Crime went down in the nineties when that slowed down, but due different factors it's going back up again, as much as Bloomberg would like to deny it. Kids are more hardcore. IT's a different vibe. Class divisions and gentrification do play some role.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:52 PM

5:57, keep your head buried in the "statistics" ignoramous. Awww, you afraid I'm going to lower the value of your million dollar brownstone? poor baby.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:06 PM

Park Slope vic was a big baby, but EFB at least has had some staying power.

Still, people seem to like to overpay to be around danger. EFB surely didn't HAVE to buy over in Bed-Stuy. He could've paid about the same to live on a quaint limestone block in Bay Ridge or Sunset Park, but I guess there's not enuf street crime down that way to draw "hipsters." Is it the thrill of being prey? Being the er, brave, wildebeest that's been seperated from the herd?

Luck to you, EFB, but I've got to wonder if it's worth all this crazy vigilance, negotiating such an obstacle course on your way home every night.

I lived in Bay Ridge and found it kind of dull and inconvenient, then moved to CG, where you'd have to be hanging around the projects steadily to get yourself mugged. It's kinda nice to stumble home drunk at 4 a.m. now and then without sweating bullets. Isn't that one reason people live in NYC instead of in SUV-land?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:17 PM

First of all let me say I'm sorry for what you've been through. There seems to be an edge of blame the victim both with the OP and with subsequent postings about the nabe and the time of the move and the fact he had cash in his pocket. This is BS. You are not to blame for your bad misfortunes. Obviously things could have gone worse. Thankfully they didn't. I think it comes down to can you feel like you are truly at home in this neighborhood after what you've been through? I don't think any of us can answer that for you. This kind of thing could happen anywhere. But for you it didn't. It happened there. So if you are ready for a change that would be completely understandable. And if you want to stick it out that would be too. Good luck.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 7:04 PM

My own crime statistics....I grew up in Brooklyn. I've been flashed and followed in Midwood, Ft Greene and Coney Island. In Park Slope, I've fought with and reported drug dealers, a knife wielding maniac and a wife beater. I witnessed a shooting, a hostage situation and a few burglaries, also in the Slope. Friends of mine have been attacked in Ft Greene and Boerum Hill. I've seen lots of crime over the years, but fortunately, I've never been mugged (knock wood!). I sold my house in Park Slope and moved to Bed Stuy because I do LOVE it and feel comfortable here (yeah, I'm white). I'm not rich by a long shot, but I had $ to upgrade my house from the sale of the Slope home, which I bought for buppkas in the 90's. I've been in the Stuy about 2 years and never had a problem apart from breaking up a family fight and hearing gunshots 2 blocks away. I know most of my neighbors (old timers) and we look out for one another. I think I like it because it reminds me of the city I grew up in. Oh yeah, I know plenty of gay people who live here. Anyway, here's why I think I've never had problems on the streets....I have a self assured "tough" walk and I always make eye contact and say hello if the street isn't crazy crowded. If I'm harassed, I go ballistic on their ass. I'm a little chick. Maybe I'm street smart or maybe I've just been lucky.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 7:30 PM

Hal - Don't confuse being rightly wary of a subculture which idealizes violence, guns and overt misanthropism with being racist.

Perhaps you don't examine your own prejudices as much as you think. I'm sure people here wouldn't be any happier living among the notorious white projects of South Boston.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 8:00 PM

Wake up and do what exactly, 9:19? Live in a bubble?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 9:31 PM

"Don't confuse being rightly wary of a subculture which idealizes violence, guns and overt misanthropism with being racist.“

sounds like you're talking about mainstream culture ..

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:15 PM

Hey! You guys want to know why there's so much perceived apathy with respect to Atlantic Yards? Well, most whites who live east of Flatbush Avenue, including myself, fully support the Ratner project because we understand clearly that it will further promote gentrification in our section of brownstone Brooklyn. We definitely need it to continue the great strides that we've made over the past seven years. AY = instant gentrification and without it Prospect Heights, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights run a serious risk of reverting back to the ghetto days of the 1980s. Most people don't want to admit this fact but I will say it here - gentrification yes; slumification no! The reason for the massive indifference and lack of support for opponents of AY is that the majority of transplant understand the AY provides us with more good than bad. For those living east of Flatbush Avenue, AY is indeed the silver bullet that we need to take our nabes to the next level. Bring it on!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:19 PM

"Is all that worth it to save a few bucks on rent or mortgage?"

A few bucks?!? Are you kidding me?!?! I bought a beautiful 22x60-four story brownstone on one of the best blocks in Bed-Stuy in 2005 for $700k. It's a single family and is dripping with details. My mortgage is roughly $3,000 a month and I get the tax benefits of homeowner. I actively shopped in Carrol Gardens, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Beorum Hill, Fort Greene and Clinton Hill and for $700k you cannot anything more than a two bedroom condo. A condo! I absolutely detest having to live in building/adult dormitory and would never raise my family in one either. To buy a 5,000 sq. ft. similar quality townhouse in the above mentioned neighborhoods would cost me $2.5-$4.5 million. This is not a matter of a few bucks. You're talking about the difference between a $3,000 monthly nut and $13,000 and up! So what did I do? I took my white ass to Bed-Stuy and purchase a kick ass house for peanuts where I plan to live for the next 30 years. I know Bed-Stuy is not perfect but I love it here. I live on a tree lined street adorned with beautiful homes and my neighbors are awesome (both black and white). Everyone is on a first name bases and I feel welcomed. I'm actively involved in our block association which enabled me to know a lot of people in the community. I don't feel threatened at all.

More importantly, I know that I moved into "their" neighborhood and thus I'm the one the needs to make adjustments. Like a previous poster said, living in a slowly gentrifying neighborhood is not for everyone. If your expectations are set too high, you will be disappointed on many fronts. If you move into a fringe neighborhood and walk around with your nose stuck up in the air as if you're better than everyone else and simply waiting around for others like you to take over the neighborhood than you're in deep trouble. However, if you sincerely attempt to become part of the neighborhood and treat it and those who already reside there with respect then you'll do great. Granted they are always risk but that's par for the course and comes with the territory.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 4:29 AM

I didn't follow this thread yesterday so maybe somebody said this already.

"Gentrification" is not just white people moving into a neighborhood. It's the offspring of the longtime residents who DO make enough money to buy a house or apartment in that neighborhood now, choosing NOT to do that. They choose the suburbs. They choose Manhattan. Leaving behind the n'er do well descendents who can neither buy a property in that neighborhood, nor afford to move elsewhere. So they sit around angry and whining they've been priced out of the neighborhood. And it's just all the white man's fault. These kids aren't all from bad families either. Please. We live in a black neighborhood, we see it every day. Many of these kids have hardworking parents who are doing the best they can.

Additionally, even without the boom in Brooklyn that has driven up prices, do you all really truly think these dudes would be able to buy a house in Bed-Stuy? Give me a break. Even if the houses were $100 per square foot, absurdly cheap, they couldn't afford that. The low-income people would never be able to buy these houses. Never. Not in any scenario. It's such an absurd proposition. It's called inflation. It's normal. Sometimes it's higher than other times, but it keeps on happening.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 10:00 AM

anon 10:00,

your writing is utterly incomprehensible. please stop. you arre hurting my logic.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 10:52 AM

"Bed-Stuy residents are more likely to be victimized by crime then many other neighborhoods in Brooklyn."

David, I got a chuckle out of that one! Surely you mean "brownstone Brooklyn", right? Because Brownsville and East New York are on an entirely DIFFERENT LEVEL!!! Makes Bed-Stuy look like Pleasantville, USA. :-)

On another note, not to water down your statistics, which are spot on, most of the crime in Bed-Stuy happens in and around the the projects which are located primarily out on the outter edge of the neighborhood near Willaimsburg, Bushwick and perhaps Ocean Hill/Brownsville. The crime rate is no way near that high in brownstone Bed-Stuy and Stuy Heights. But let's not split hairs, any amount of crime is too much crime in my book.

However, I think if you take a closer look at the crime stats in downtown Brooklyn neighborhoods that you will find that most of the crime is concentrated in pockets of poverty near or in public housing. Check out the stats in Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens (Wycoff, Gowanus), Dumbo/Vinegar Hill (Farragut), Fort Greene (Ingersoll, Whitman), Red Hook, (Red Hook), and Clinton Hill (Lafayette). Where's all the crime committed? Bingo! Among the hoodrats!

IMHO, downtown is relatively safe. The people who live in the pockets of poverty tend to cannibalize each other more than anything else so the rests of us really have nothing to fear. 6 homicides in Bed-Stuy in '07? I wouldn't worry about it unless you’re a gang banger or drug dealer. I'm sure all of these victims knew their assailant and had major beef with one another before things went seriously wrong. But like the saying goes.,you lie down with dogs, you’re apt to get fleas.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 11:52 AM

This argument is not about poverty, gentrification etc. It's about parents. These kids are all punks because they were not raised properly. Someone didn't have a chance or didn'y want to be involved in showing them what life really is all about. And yes they might even be a little bit evil. I grew up 1st generation american with an uneducated mother. We lived under sparse conditions. I never got angry because wealthier people were moving in, I got MOTIVATED to do better. I LIKED these people because most of them were contributing to the neighborhood. Supporting businesses, bringing in more options to eat ,shop. etc. I had common sense not to throw rocks, mug etc at anyone. Most people living here had common sense. All these people saying "C'est La Vie" because some assholes live in or HANG OUT in Bed Stuy (who should be shot or incarcerated) are the ones I hope move on because they don't like the changes for the better. They think crime is acceptable Suck it up you non progressives that think everyone black wants to live on welfare forever and rely on the Government for everything but progress. We like living the good life too, and we WONT tolerate crime and make an excuse for it. Those of you that will, please leave my Bed Stuy ASAP, we don't want you here. We never did.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 11:56 AM

Black and Gay: you have no idea what it is like for "little Miss Ann white girl" to live in a rough area. You're right that the black guys do not taunt/mug/assault me or my partner. It's the Latin/African-American girls that make my life...interesting. I agree with most of your post so I'm not looking to argue with you. Just letting you know that it is not easy for Miss Ann white girl when there are angry, bored and poor teenage girls around to throw fast food bags at you, surround you and taunt you and so on.

Anyway, that's not the point of the post. At this point EFB you have lived through it three times so why move now. Either you (we) suck it up or we pull a Bernhard Goetz. And trust me, it crossed my mind more than once when the leader of the herd shook up a soda and sprayed it all over my Bullmastiff/pit mix. The way I see it is we are very unlikely to be killed or maimed (or we would have been already) so it is a matter of making it a game. Figure out what empowers you. Get a gun if you need to and do what the kids on the street do: don't pull it out, just move it so they know you have it. That's what the (white) super of my building does and he said it works every time. Learn the language of the street and use it - no matter how extreme or off the wall it seems.

Either way, good luck. One day you'll laugh all the way to the bank and these little ass*oles will be taking to their mothers through a glass divider.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 12:23 PM

Sorry, 10:52 AM, I'll put it more simply.

Some low-income people believe they should be able to afford houses in Brooklyn, and blame gentrification for making the houses unaffordable.

Pulling an unrealistically low number out of my hat, I said what if the houses were $100 per square foot?

Even at that price the houses would cost too much for low-income people to buy.

Plus, even at a price that would reflect normal inflation, not a bubble effect in Brooklyn like we've seen, the houses would not be affordable to them.

And then I was trying to say "gentrification" doesn't happen because white people are moving in, but because affluent blacks choose not to buy in that neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 12:25 PM

11:39 and 11:47....ahhhhh....so boring.

It's a personal decision. Perhaps you can't understand the choices made by others but that's your problem not theirs. Don't like? Don't buy? It shouldn't pain you so much that people in ever increasing numbers are moving to Bed-Stuy to secure homeownership; despite the drawbacks. I paid over a $1 million for my Stuy Heights property and then spent under 400k to get the place into five star condition (you name it, I got it). For a little over $1.4 million (no mortgage) I have a mansion size/quality home on a most coveted block. And you know what? I love my house, my block and my community. I have no regrets whatsoever. I plan to stay here forever.

I don't get all the hoopla. Some white guy gets mugged in Bed-Stuy and all hell breaks loose?!? Why is this news? Why should anypone get worked up about this crime? Don't muggings occur everyday all over New York? Give me a break.

This neighborhood is going nowhere but up up up! It won't happen overnight but I'm not a short term investor so I'm not worried about it. The day Bed-Stuy brownstones go $300k again is the day that you can fetch a prime house on Montgomery in the Slope for $900k. You can wait for another 100 years and that ain't happening anywhere in brownstone Brooklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 12:33 PM

This thread is not about advice. It was not anyone who lives and owns in Bed-Stuy asking ye great real estate sages if they have paid too much or made the wrong decision to live where they do. Some of you took it upon yourselves to turn it into that. The only thing I see people who live in Bed-Stuy saying here is, Look I love my 'hood, I know it's not perfect and long- and short-term residents alike are working together on lots of issues (including things as mundane as getting people to pick up their yards, an issue EVERY neighborhood needs to deal with), etc. No one asked for anyone's opinion on the price tag of our homes or if we live in the "right" area. You are free to offer your opinion if you must, but just know that no one really cares what you think!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 1:39 PM

anon 2:25, I'm not going to bother to count, but a great number of these posts are by people telling other people the choices they've made are "bad" (now who's being defensive?). Sad but true. It is not 188 posts from people defending their own choices.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 2:32 PM

Anon 2:25....and you came on here to comment because....?

Weird.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 2:56 PM

Sucker and 2:32 are absolutely right. I've never seen so much venom and vitriol from people who seem so angry that (white)people are happy to have bought or rented in BS, and love it, and are putting down long term roots. Why do people here assuming that those who love it are lying, delusional, or stupid. Obviously there is much here to love, and not just "cheap" real estate.

If you hate BS, please just go away and leave the rest of us alone. We don't need your sage pronouncements on what stupid idiots we must be. Too many people - white, black, gay, straignt, and everyone in beween, are quite happy to be here. No one ever said it was perfect, or didn't need a lot of TLC.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 3:03 PM

Well said, Brower Park.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 3:59 PM

"it doesn't make sense to me how people spend so much money to live in such a crappy neighborhood."

Anon 12:43PM:

I'm the poster who spent $1.4M to live in Bed-Stuy. A couple of things you should know:

(a) I love my house.
(b) I love my neighbors
(c) I love Bed-Stuy
(d) I'm not afraid of black people
(e) Having spent the better part of the last 20 years living in PS, FG and CH, I'm fully away of the dangers of urban life and street crime. The threat doesn't bother me (I don't even think about it one bit). I feel totally safe and secure - everywhere.
(f) For the most part, when I dine out it's during the week and it's typically at five star restaurants in Manhattan, not Brooklyn.
(g) On weekends, if I want to explore something local, every good Brooklyn restaurant is within a 20 minute drive if not much less (FG, CH, PS, CG and WB). I don't hang out at bars in Brooklyn - ever.
(h) I care very little about living down the street from hip restaurants, cafes or bars. Means absolutely nothing to me.
(i) Food Shopping? I do Fresh Direct or simply jump in my car and drive to Fairway and Costco. Not an inconvenience at all, especially considering that most in brownstone Brooklyn typically drive to these stores too. Who walks to the supermarket anyway?
(j) I have a triple parlor with a 20x 20 ft kitchen that's decked out to the max. My wife and I can usually be found at home cooking and drinking fine wine on most evenings. Have kitchen? Use it.
(k) For the most part, everything I love and want is right here in my home (fitness room, wine cellar, rec room, library, media room) and when I want more, I get dressed up and drive for a night out. I did the same when I lived in PS, FG and CH and I'm doing the same in BS. No difference.
(l) I paid cash for my house so I couldn't care less about the ups and downs of the real estate market. I love this house so much, I will always keep it in the family and will eventually past it down to my children.
(m) Schools: Everyone in my family has gone private,.e.g., parents, wife, siblings and children. 321? Never.
(n) Lastly, "Mr. So Concerned About Other People's Lives". I have a great wife, awesome kids, a great career, successful investment portfolio, attend a wonderful church and live in a truly fantastic community. I got my life together. Very together. I hope the same is true for you.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 4:32 PM

Wow, David, you're right. South Slope, oops I mean Bed-Stuy, really has it bad.

PS- You sound pretty angry, and it doesn't seem to have too much to do with the discussion at hand....

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 4:38 PM

Oh David, please come to Stuyvesant Heights and show me where you see this? You a pathetic liar. Marcy projects, perhaps yes. Stuy Heights? Never. You won't find any of that crap you just mentioned on your list. You must be drunk at work right now!

On the other hand, I'll tell you what you will find:

1. Tree lined streets.
2. Beautiful and well kept homes.
3. Front yards and windows stacked window boxes, planters and pots of beautiful floral arrangements.
4. A lit lamppost in every front yard.
5. Sidewalks aligned with flower baskets.
6. A community of long time residents who look out for one another.

Have you ever gone on the Stuy Height House tour? Have you ever walked along the beautiful streets of Stuyvesant, Chauncey, Bainbridge, Decatur and Macdonough? I've lived in this community for years and NOT ONCE have I ever seen this crap that you are aluding to on my block or anywhere else in my immediate area.

"- Rats
- Graffiti
- Trash blowing up the street
- Plastic bags stuck in trees
- Dice games on the sidewalk
- Angry stares from groups of 'punks'
- People drinking and getting roudy on
front stoops
-Drug dealing"

Like the above poster stated correctly: "People have been making a lot of unfounded generalizations about a very large neighborhood." What's your frame of reference? "New Jack City"?

David, I always took you for one of the brighter and more reasonable commentators on this board. However, to make such a gross generalization and misstatement of the truth is utterly disgusting. Why would you paint an entire community with such broad and uneven strokes. You my friend are pathetic.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 4:57 PM

Yes, BS is large and folks need to specify which area they are talking about.

I can say that this list

"- Rats
- Graffiti
- Trash blowing up the street
- Plastic bags stuck in trees
- Dice games on the sidewalk
- Angry stares from groups of 'punks'
- People drinking and getting roudy on
front stoops
-Drug dealing"

applies to almost every nabe in browntone Brooklyn: Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens (Wycoff, Gowanus), Dumbo/Vinegar Hill (Farragut), Fort Greene (Ingersoll, Whitman), Red Hook, (Red Hook), and Clinton Hill (Lafayette).

Not because of the intact and well kept brownstone blocks but the fact the crappiness is quite apparent in every public housing project in these neighborhoods. Of course I would never make such a stupid statement. It would be like saying Fort Greene is "crappy" because the Whitman and Ingersoll houses are "crappy". Or Carroll Gardens and Beorum Hill are "horrible" because the Wycoff, Gowanus and Red Hook houses are "horrible". You get it? You can't make sweeping generalization about an entire community, especially one as large a Bed-Stuy, without breaking down the various components that make up this neighborhood, otherwise it is pure misrepresentation.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 5:12 PM

Look at the picture of Stuy Heights at the top of the thread. Yes, David it sure looks pretty crappy and filthy to me too. NOT!!!

What an asshole....

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 6:06 PM

"for someone who claims to be a churchgoer, you sure do seem to be obsessed with material things...shamelessly talking about private schools, wine cellars, 5 star restaurants, etc.

is THAT was god teaches you to strive for??

you make me sick."

5:09 PM. Take a chill pill. Lay off the guy. It's his house and lifestyle. Sounds great to me. The guy spent a lot of money in BS, let him enjoy his home the way he sees fit. It's his perogative. No need to beat the guy down simply for living differently from you or I. He lives in NYC, the greatest city in the world, why not drive around and enjoy it? It's his choice. Further, "shamelessly talking about private school'? Is this a crime? Whoah..you might have issues of your own. Sorry.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 6:11 PM

Are you people stupid!!!! Most of these posts are from people who don't live here but obviuosly live in fear of black and brown people. That is why so many of you have weighed in on this subject. I understand... you couldn't pay me to live in Bensonhurst or Howard Beach. Given their history I'm scared to death to live with a bunch of whites.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 6:22 PM

David was talking about his own neighborhood, so cut him alittle slack. But David, I have some advice for you and I don't mean to be snarky or offensive in any way. It sounds like you've had it with the city. Perhaps you're a native and you're burnt out (happened to me) or you're not from an urban environment and it's too much for you to handle. Whatever the case, you don't seem happy here.
5 star restaurant guy, I walk to the supermarket. Foodtown on Fulton. I can also hike to Petit Bassam, Toukelour, Kush and Locanda Vini. Maybe not up to parr with your fine taste, but they are good enough for working slobs like me. I understand you're coming from a positive place, but you really should explore the neighborhood more. It does have alot to offer.
4:26, you didn't read all the posts. Natives of BS were mentioned...not much, but they were.
Brower Park, well said, as always.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 6:51 PM

5 Star Guy here. I'm sorry for not making this perfectly clear but I do in fact live and breathe Bed-Stuy everyday. I was simply making the point that if I ever wanted to do something different I do indeed have many options. This is New York City after all. In terms of local spots, I'm a frequent patron of Petit Bassam, Toukelour, Kush, Locanda Vini, Solomon's Porch, Bread Stuy, Common Ground and a slew of other nearby eateries. But you want to know my favorite, Golden Krust on Fulton! I can eat there everyday. I try to spend my hard earned money locally as much as possible but if I ever wanted to do something differently, I have options too. I was only addressing the common misconception that if you live in Bed-Stuy you are isolated and marginalized. I don't feel that way at all. I have the best of everything; at my door step and if not, just minutes away. I hope this clears things up for those whose first instinct is to spit hate. No worries.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 7:07 PM

People in Bed-Stuy have options. Now go fuck yourself! How about dem apples?!?!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 7:44 PM

Locanda Vini? Learning about a few new businesses here. Great.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 9:39 PM

After all this debate back and forth, all I can say is if you don't want to live in a neighborhood don't buy there. Why so angry about those who do choose to buy there? Those who buy in Bed-Stuy or PLG or any other borderline neighborhood are:

a) renovating the houses which would otherwise decay.
b) contributing to diversity to neighborhoods because you know, diversity goes both ways, it means white going into black neighborhoods, and asian into arab neighborhoods, etc etc.
c) helping bring attention to neglected public schools in certain districts.
d) contributing the health of the ENTIRE Brooklyn real estate market, and what on earth would be anybody's problem with that?

Jeepers. You all are so competitive. Might be worth bringing up at your next therapy meeting. Figure out why you always have to feel superior to others.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 29, 2007 10:29 AM

well played, anonymous 10:29 AM.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 29, 2007 10:42 PM