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April 26, 2007
After Three Strikes, Is Recent Bed-Stuy Arrival Out?
Writer Douglass Rushkoff made headlines last December when he announced in a blog post that he and his family were leaving Brooklyn after he was mugged on Christmas Eve outside his Park Slope apartment. While many people thought the response was an overreaction, getting mugged is a traumatic experience against which the rationality of statistics are of little comfort. Now another blogger is questioning whether he should stay in his neighborhood after having been mugged on Monday night for the third time in as many years. After five years in London and one on the Upper West Side, blogger Eating for Brooklyn scraped together enough dough for a down payment on browntone fixer-upper in Bed Stuy in 2003 only to get a rather jarring reception:
By the time we unloaded the last box from the rental truck, it was 1am. 1am and raining. The asphalt was shiny and slick and the street lights reflected yellow, red and green. Our block had the feeling of a movie set. It was picture perfect. Just as we closed the door to the truck with a thump, a passerby turned around and held us up. He ripped through my pockets frantically searching for cash. And I stupidly had $500.00 in my front pocket. I slipped a few singles off the wad of dough and gave it to him. He started walking away and came back with a vengeance as if the few singles I had given him were like spitting in his face. He ransacked my pockets again. Nothing. He never found the $500.00. Picture perfect and no one around.
We felt nothing but horror and panic later that night as we searched out the safest corner of the house to sleep -- the fourth floor front room overlooking the top of the sycamore tree. With our sleeping bags on pine floors, our hearts pounded and kept us up all night. We had spent our life savings only to be held up at gunpoint. We felt we had been had.
All was quiet until February 2006 when the writer was pummelled in the head by a gang of teenagers; then on this past Monday night he was mugged again a block from his house.
I feel paralyzed. The rational voice says "Leave now." The voice of fantasy says "Stick it out. It'll be worth it in the long run." Maybe I was stupid for not having left three and half years ago. With the neighborhood in transition and deep into renovation and debt, what would you do?
Well, what would you do?
3 Muggings in 3 Years, What Would You Do? [Eating for Brooklyn]
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Comments
I would leave. I would worry too much about my son's safety. We just bought a place in Greenwood Hgts. My husband went to Pratt and vehemently opposed to getting a brownstone in Bed Stuy/Clinton Hill. Sure it's not as bad as it was 15 years ago, but just the thought of subjecting my son to potential violence freaks me out.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 10:37 AM
Is this bad luck or is this person making bad decisions and putting himself in bad situations? Carrying himself wrong?
Maybe its a bad block...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:38 AM
listen...as a lifelong brooklynite and still look in amazement at the prices people are willing to pay to live in certain areas (even if those areas are "gentrifying")...the reality is, not every area will be gentrified and some will remain just as bad as they always were...
as someone who saw brooklyn in the '80s, i can say this...you can't pay me enough to live in bed-stuy.
the blogger knew, or should have known, that just b/c he moved in to a neighborhood doesn't make it great and that is the risk he took...if he can't deal w/ that risk now b/c the neighborhood hasn't changed like everyone says it has then he has noone to blame but himself.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 10:39 AM
greenwood hgts isn't safe, either. our house was broken into last year. then last week, some drunk dood sent my wife into a panic cause he was trying to steal my bike, which locked up on our front stoop. she was worried he was going to try and shoot her through the door.
some of the hipster glam rubbing off, i guess, and bklyn is reverting to old school. not much you can do.
stay if you want. leave if you want. you're lucky to have the choice. many (most) don't have unlimited mobility.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:42 AM
Hate to blame the victim, but who moves in to a house at 1:00 AM? I've lived in Brooklyn for over 20 years, and it is clearly much safer than it used to be. That said, you still need to be savvy. I live in Boerum Hill and am amazed to see people walking around late at night with their IPODs on. It's just asking for trouble.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:45 AM
I've been living in Bed-Stuy for 2 years now, and never had any problems. My neighbors are friendly, and even helpful.
The only time I've been harrassed on the street was in Fort Greene (!) where a young teenage girl came up behind me out of the blue and hit me on the back for no reason at all...
It's not always about the hood, sometimes it's about the timing, and using some common sense - not sure it's safe to be out at 1 am anywhere in the city, unloading a moving truck.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:46 AM
He should make better decisions about when he is outside, how aware he is of who & what is around him. No matter where you live there's risk. So stay, just live more aware.
Posted by: tag482 at April 26, 2007 10:52 AM
We did it the old-fashioned way: moved into a still-dangerous neighborhood because it was all we could afford, and weren't the least bit surprised at 3 attempted break-ins, a purse-snatching (victim being my elderly mother, alas), and a mugging. We fought it the old-fashioned way: called 911 about everything, slogged away at block association and precinct meetings, etc. The rising statistical tide of public safety has lifted our boat here on the rough edge of Flatbush, but we got what we paid for 20 years ago: an affordable fixer-upper in a still-marginal area. Even 20 years ago, for $155K, you kind of expected to get mugged eventually.
Now, what I CANNOT understand is folks paying a million bucks to live in places they'll get mugged eventually--and that includes, not just Bed-Stuy, but Park Slope, where muggers are smart enough to know "where the money is" (if the local police blotter stories are any indication). If safety were my only value in choosing a place to live, rather than one among many competing values (hey, a perfectly respectable choice), I'd put that wad into a gated suburban community. But to somehow expect a mugger-proof existence in a rough nabe (or any urban nabe) just because you paid soooo much money for your house seems like a sad case of wishful thinking. As a cop once told me pithily, "Hey, this ain't Westchester."
Posted by: Brenda from Brooklyn at April 26, 2007 10:54 AM
I really feel for you. I live in Clinton Hill and have not had any problems in the past 5 or so years.
What part of Bed Stuy does this person live in? I stress that I'm not blaming the victim, but you really have to keep your wits about you and use common sense pretty much anywhere in the City, especially neighborhoods with high crime/mugging incidents. I'm always extremely cautious when moving - never late at night, etc.
I'd also ask your neighbors about their experiences and advice if they are not being mugged. You might be putting yourself in harms way out of ignorance of bad streets to walk down etc.
Heck, I remember in the 80s certain blocks on the east side of mid town manhattan that were not safe to walk on at night.
As you walk around, be aware of your surroundings. Pretend your in another country on vacation where you stick out and crime can be an issue and keep your wits about you.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:57 AM
It's a personal decision. I can't say that I'm surprised though, because as the above posters pointed out, just because you moved there and spent a lot of money to do so doesn't automatically mean the neighborhood is going to change overnight. Real estate booms don't change neighborhoods, no matter how much you wish they did.
Part of it is also common sense - as someone else pointed out, why would you unpack at 1 am in the rain? In ANY neighborhood?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:58 AM
What a bunch of b.s. This guy was out at 1a.m. with $500 bucks in his pocket. Hey, I got mugged at 2:00 in the afternoon on the corner of Park Avenue and 89th Street. All those doormen didn't do a thing. Crime happens. Get over it or move out to the suburbs (where you'll likely get run down by a drunk teenager in a used SUV).
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:02 AM
I agree re: common sense. I've lived in NY all my life, including pre-gentrification Bushwick/Williamsburg, and right now in Clinton Hill, and I have never been mugged. All of you guys moving into areas that are still rough around the edges need to take care, be watchful as youre walking home late at night, try to have company as much as possible, avoid certain blocks, etc. I feel that many of the criminals specifically target people who look like outsiders (in some of these neighborhoods that means white) so it's my opinion that those people need to take special care.
Must be horrible to be mugged, though. I definitely don't want to blame the victim, but there are certainly things we can do to mitigate the likelihood of being mugged, attacked, etc.
Posted by: BrooklynZoo at April 26, 2007 11:05 AM
I've lived in Bed-Stuy for over three years and never had any real problems. Of course I do think about it after hearing stories like this. I've walked home from the subway too late a few times, but for the most part I'm leaving the subway with a group of people and I feel pretty safe.
It can happen anywhere. I personally know of two incidents of people being help up by gunpoint, one in front of their prime Fort Greene brownstone, one in Williamsburg. It's horrible when it happens anywhere to anyone. I'm sorry you've had to experience this so many times.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:05 AM
I remember how the muggers would wait for those Prat students, especially the Asian ones, coming home late or simply waiting for the bus on Myrtle Ave in broad daylight They were like ATM's to the local kids. Hey want to go to McD's?, lets mug that skinny art student over there.
Another case of "White man wishes to throw one good punch before he's to old" syndrome. Good thing the guy doesn't own a gun.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:05 AM
Maybe buy a dog, maybe get a car or use a car service for nighttime travel. Get an alarm for your house.
It's hard to be a prisoner in your own neighborhood, but you do have to make changes to ensure your safety.
Make friends with your neighbors. Join your block association. Working to change the neighborhood is also important, but if you don't have the time or energy, moving might be the best thing.
Posted by: clinton hillbilly at April 26, 2007 11:06 AM
I remember when I moved to the upper east side in the '94. Every single person I knew had been mugged within 6 months. It was just part of living in nyc. I never have been but I think brooklyn is the way the rest of the city used to be. I don't think it should be that shocking. I think you can do alot to avoid it too, but sometimes its just timing.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:09 AM
I agree re: common sense. I've lived in NY all my life, including pre-gentrification Bushwick/Williamsburg, and right now in Clinton Hill, and I have never been mugged. All of you guys moving into areas that are still rough around the edges need to take care, be watchful as youre walking home late at night, try to have company as much as possible, avoid certain blocks, etc. I feel that many of the criminals specifically target people who look like outsiders (in some of these neighborhoods that means white) so it's my opinion that those people need to take special care.
Must be horrible to be mugged, though. I definitely don't want to blame the victim, but there are certainly things we can do to mitigate the likelihood of being mugged, attacked, etc.
Posted by: BrooklynZoo at April 26, 2007 11:11 AM
10:37,
If you're implying that Greenwood Heights is as rough as Bed-Stuy, then you've lost all credibility. Bed-Stuy has improved in terms of safety, but it sure ain't Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. The precinct crime rates say it all. Meanwhile, be careful and use some common sense to protect yourself.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:11 AM
This totally s#cks. I'm very sorry to hear that there is this much mugging going on in Bed-Stuy -- 3x in three years is a lot to endure. If I were this guy, I would be thinking very hard about selling, unless that meant taking a loss. It's one thing to stick something out because your choices are limited, but it sounds like he may have options. I also fear that Bed-Stuy is poised for rising problems in that not a few homes (perhaps a lot of the new two-families) may go into foreclosure and then turn into non-owner occupied rentals.
Thankfully, I have not been a victim of crime in my marginal neighborhood, where I have lived for over a decade now. Maybe he should sell and move to Sunset Park?
Posted by: SPer at April 26, 2007 11:14 AM
the best response i have seen so far is on the blogger's actual site. a comment by jake was reasonable, intelligent and balanced. sadly, that sort of commentary seems to be beside the point based on the posts listed above. i like this blog, i think it's a valuable resource for anyone considering or living in brooklyn. a lot of the comments, however, with exceptions of course, are juvenile, dumb and just plain mean spirited.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:14 AM
Actually, I thought 11:02 comment was pretty funny....
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 11:16 AM
Yes, we don't want to blame the victim, but...
Posted by: Rusty at April 26, 2007 11:18 AM
Eh I don't think 10:37 was saying that just saying that Greenwood Heights is not all that and it isn't. Most of the posters are right you can do a lot no matter where you live to reduce your chances of being a victim of a crime. At the same time stuff happens everywhere. The only place I've been mugged is upstate.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:19 AM
2 things:
1. why would you just give someone a few singles off a wad of 500 bucks if someone was holding you up at gunpoint. REALLY stupid. you're lucky you're not dead.
and
2. bed stuy statistically has one of the highest (i believe used to be THE highest) rate of crime in the entire COUNTRY!!! what do you expect?? i think it's obscene that people pay a million dollars to live in such a neighborhood, and think that because of that, that it's somehow been upgraded.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 11:22 AM
Everyone in NY knows the City=Random acts of violence. We have no control over that. Yet, we can learn to be more alert and responsive in order minimize the chance of being mugged, robbed, actacked,etc. The rest is up to chance.
...or yo can move to the burbs in LI, I hear the break-ins are down this year.
Posted by: QBorBK at April 26, 2007 11:24 AM
What do you expect from Bed-Stuy? Sure two or three people respond saying its safe. What do the crime statistics say? Now if you let developers come in and gentrify the place, then maybe, just maybe, it might get better.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:27 AM
Every investment has a risk. I don't think the prices of condos/brownstones in Bed-Sty and Bushwick reflect the risk. The prices on new developments and brownstones in areas like these are not a steal considering that you pay in other ways to live there. I'd rather buy a shoebox in a better area and trade up than buy in an area I don't feel comfortable. p.s. mugged in Ft Greene 2 years ago at 8 PM. All it takes is a dark block and no one around to make for a perfect opportunity.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:27 AM
Crime can happen anywhere -- a friend of mine lives in Brooklyn Heights and a rapist attacked women in her building on two separate occasions. If Eating for Brooklyn wants to stay, he should first of all be careful and savvy and second of all get involved with the community safety meetings and block association (or start a block assn if there isn't one). True, it's a bit of a hassle, but getting involved and getting to know your neighbors is what makes blocks safe. Also, if this guy was really so scared, why didn't he just hand over the 500 bucks? Safety is more important than money -- don't push your luck with a mugger!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:32 AM
If you want a "cheap" brownstone, then you pay for it in other ways like safety.
No area is 100% safe.....but Bed Stuy is not as safe as Bay Ridge, Bushwick is not as safe as Park Slope, etc..
It doesn't matter if its not fair - its the way it is. I feel bad for the people who are victimized by the violent criminals that are running all over new york. But it doesnt mean you are the same risk everywhere. And if you choose to live in an area with higher crime, you have to know there is some risk involved.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:32 AM
after 3 for 3, the guy's gotta be thinking he's cursed. do some people just have 'beat me up' tattooed on their foreheads? i kind of got the impression that he walks the streets with a deer-in-the-headlights look. so is it really just luck that some people escape altercations while others get it on a semi-annual basis? if i were him, i wouldn't be thinking of moving, i'd probably get totally charles bronson at that point.
sounds like he's near the utica or ralph stations, there's some beautiful houses there ...
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at April 26, 2007 11:35 AM
This is EFB here. Couple of comments I would like to make:
First of all I did NOT pay anywhere near a million for my house. Remember we're talking over 3 years ago when I bought. I would never expect to be safe because I paid such and such amount for my house.
Secondly, I acknowledge the stupid mistakes I made: the 500 bux, calling the cops on kids, though truth be told, we had stones and bottles thrown at us occasionally throughout the year so I was fed up. But for the most part I think these are random acts of violence. And I knew full well moving into Bed Stuy that it was dangerous.
And regarding moving in at 1am. I doubt I need to remind anyone how much time and energy it takes to move. We started moving that morning before noon, but didn't finish until 1am. We were left with the decision at 1am to keep the rest of our stuff locked (if we even had a lock for the truck I don't remember) in the truck on the street which also made us nervous or to finish unpacking and be done with it.
Lastly, I live in the "nicer" part of Bed Stuy on the cusp of so-called Stuyvesant Heights.
I know I need to be smarter and more streetwise.
Posted by: eatingforbrooklyn at April 26, 2007 11:37 AM
Look no one is blaming you (EFB) but...
" though truth be told, we had stones and bottles thrown at us occasionally throughout the year so I was fed up."
STONES AND BOTTLES!!!!! What the hell are you doing in the street? I don't care who you are white, black, green you have to be an easy target to have STONES and BOTTLES thrown at you OCCASIONALLY. Me an my friends (Like I said white, black, green) would smack someone for that.
Posted by: QBorBK at April 26, 2007 11:45 AM
we live on ny's "best block" (fg) and i can tell you that in 10 years, there have been more muggings in front of our houses than i can even count. almost everyone i know has been mugged-right here. this whole "my neighborhood is safer than yours" conversation is getting old...bed stuy is changing so quickly, but most of you readers wouldn't know that. crime happens everywhere-don't hang out at 1 am with 500 bucks in your fron pocket and then whine about it.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 11:47 AM
sorry to bring this up, but i believe EFB is gay, no??
as a gay man myself, i can assure you i wouldn't feel especially comfortable in bed stuy. you need to be EXTRA careful!! bed stuy doesn't exactly have a reputation for being gay friendly.
i'd sell and move to park slope, windsor terrace or kensington. it's a lot more friendly over here. more expensive, but the peace of mind in knowing you are among other friendly faces is well worth it.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 11:56 AM
You can get mugged anywhere in Brooklyn
BUT
You are more likely to get mugged in some parts of Brooklyn than others.
Why is it so unreasonable to say that?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 11:57 AM
Listen To me: Go!
Get out of there before it's too late.
Posted by: Serge at April 26, 2007 11:58 AM
hey, 11:56-two of the queeniest looking guys i know bought and renovated a gorgeous house on lexington and bedford. they have been there 4 years and have nothing but glowing words to say about the neighborhood. yes, they were the first (many have since arrived) white people. they are active in the community, attend block association meetings and treat people the way they wish to be treated. the original poster has just had some bad luck-and is probably running around looking scared.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 12:02 PM
Uh, am I the only one who thinks I would be cutting my losses after three muggings?
Have a little sympathy for this dude.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:02 PM
Yeesh, what's with the 'blame the victim' pile-on? An "emotional tax"? Give me a break -- it's a violent, scary crime! Sure, everyone should take steps to protect themselves and not looking like a walking target, but it's not unreasonable to be freaked out and fed up after a run like this. I don't know what the answer is, beyond evaluating how fast the neighborhood is changing and what you might be able to do differently to avoid future problems.
Pricing people out of neighborhoods is horrible (I'm priced out of ever buying in mine, which I love), but say this for gentrification -- diminishing street crime is a *good thing.* Finding a way to upgrade neighborhoods and create new opportunities for existing residents without displacing them is the right way to do it; like everyone, I'm frustrated that isn't what happens.
Posted by: stacy at April 26, 2007 12:12 PM
All neighborhoods change. Even neighborhoods that seemed like they would never improve have, in fact, dramtically improved. Bed Stuy has the most remarkable and largest concentration of brownstones on the planet.
Stay! The neighborhood needs you!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:16 PM
Get a couple of big dogs.
Or leave.
I got attacked (punched in the head, a millimeter from my eye, with a friggin KEY) at 56th and 6th Ave in manhattan.
I'd rather get mugged in Bed Stuy ANY DAY.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:16 PM
Thats why you buy in Carroll gardens , cobble hill, Park slope, Brooklyn heights and the areas that are most desired. Hello just go to the precincts and ask whats going on it's not hard folks all it takes is a little common sense.
Posted by: ronnie at April 26, 2007 12:19 PM
Under Bush, poverty is way up while more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few. You live near people who live below the poverty line. I believe that the jobless rate for black men in Bed-Stuy is above 50%!
You should stay but be smart. Please take care of yourself.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:21 PM
ronnie, some people would rather risk an occasional mugging than have to put up with the kinds of people who live in the areas you listed. It's just how you weigh your options. I'd pay more to live in FG than I would to live in any of those areas, muggings or not.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:22 PM
Stones and bottles thrown at you occassionally thoughout the year????!!!! My God. Are you a gay couple? No way I'm saying that you deserve to go thru that, but if you are, why the hell would you move to Bed-Stuy???? Did you expect more open-minded people there?
There's so much anger and resentment there. They know how much those brownstones cost, and when they certain people there, hell, they just assume you're rich and an easy target. Even in 2003 those prices were still high.
Anyway, I feel for you. The stress of living in some of those neighborhoods takes a tremendous toll on both the physical and mental health. That's one of the reasons why high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes in Bed-Stuy are among the highest rates in the city.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:23 PM
To be fair, you can go to as many CB meetings as you want; doesn't mean some punk asshole isn't going to try something. They're not checking the attendance roster.
Nah, but I feel for EFB. It's hard to find a place you love, and people fucking with you on the street gets to you. I know I'd have given up after three -- at my last place, I pretty much gave up after 1. But I was renting.
Posted by: Q.R. at April 26, 2007 12:27 PM
you know what you can handle. be happy and enjoy your life. if it isn't working for you, move. only you know.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:42 PM
I'm sorry that happened to you, EFB. I agree w/ 12:27, all is takes is a few punk-@$$ f*cks to make your life a living hell. It's a damn shame and we know that it comes with the territory, and it's not going to change so long as there are still roving bands of teenagers and freak-cases, which there always will be, to some extent! I'm not into blaming the victim, but if you've chosen to take these kind of risks, being confident and attentive to your surroundings is the best you can do. And people with the ipods and cellphones, put them away, please, especially in BS. You should be tuned in to your surroundings, and are just asking for it.
Posted by: agree at April 26, 2007 12:45 PM
move to the safer parts of brooklyn for less. bensonhurst and gravesend is cheaper and better.
Posted by: armchair_warrior at April 26, 2007 12:51 PM
I don't know where you live, but if there are blocks that you need to stay away from. For example, if you are near Decatur and Throop, DO NOT walk on the Albany St. stub. I only know because someone told me.
As for the move at 1am...I moved into my house in 2004 b/t 3-6 am. I didn't want people peepin' what was I moving into the crib.
Posted by: Suggestion at April 26, 2007 12:52 PM
bro, three strikes and you're out. simple as that. come on dude you are, obviously, an ideal target in the hood...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 12:57 PM
Most of Brooklyn is a hell hole, especially north of Flatbush. How many groovy young things will need to be mugged before this damn real estate bubble pops?
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:00 PM
what bad luck. i think it's a combination of how you carry yourself and luck. i grew up in brookly and been to more questionable neighborhoods in all 5 boroughs than anyone i know and never been mugged. i have heard many stupid racist and sexual comments (i am a petite asian woman). funny enough, the most physically harrasment i got was last summer in broad daylight in dumbo in the park less than 50 feet away from the park ranger when a young man grabbed my foot as i was walking. thinking back i let my guard down and let that young man follow too close to me without turning back and letting him know that i was aware of him.
as an aside, i bought in sunset park 2 years ago, and not in the better part. after the first few weeks, i am comfortable there except for the dog crap.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:01 PM
move to downtown jersey city. Better than Bed stuy and safer too. But no matter where you move in the city there will always be problems.
Posted by: jc at April 26, 2007 1:04 PM
"Pricing people out of neighborhoods is horrible (I'm priced out of ever buying in mine, which I love), but say this for gentrification -- diminishing street crime is a *good thing.* Finding a way to upgrade neighborhoods and create new opportunities for existing residents without displacing them is the right way to do it; like everyone, I'm frustrated that isn't what happens."
It would be nice if that happened, but I think that's a dream - when you hear about crimes and muggings in gentrifying areas it's because the people there are angry and frustrated that they are losing their neighborhood, and that results in understandable frustration (not that if it were me I'd take it out by mugging someone at gunpoint). Not every neighborhood wants to be "gentrified" by a Starbucks and pretentious restaurants (although I think it's obvious that most would love less crime, rich or poor). And make all the arguments for gentrification, but it simply emphasizes the tension between the rich and the poor. Maybe in 30 years that won't be so obvious, but it many of these neighborhoods that tension will remain for a while, and those that choose to buy there have to be wise to that - understanding about their neighbors concerns AND streetwise.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:09 PM
1:09
What are you talking about?
rich and poor?
It's about criminals and law-abiding citizens.
You're saying the slime that mug old ladies do so because they feel frutrated that their beloved neihborhood is changing?
That's crap.
One has evil in one's heart or one doesn't.
In America you can come from the poorest background and make something of yourself. On the other hand you can decide to mug skinny asian kids, or gays, or white people who look like they may have more than twenty dollars in their wallets.
Get real!
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:21 PM
wtf? Assaulting someone with a bottle is assault with a dangerous weapon. Buy a gun and use it.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:25 PM
"when you hear about crimes and muggings in gentrifying areas it's because the people there are angry and frustrated that they are losing their neighborhood"
You think petty thugs have these social issues on their mind? crazy.
Posted by: greenwood slope at April 26, 2007 1:33 PM
sorry 1:09 but i think your arguement is SERIOUSLY flawed. i don't think it's so simple to say either you have evil in your heart or not. that's pretty simplistic and ignorant.
i'm not defending criminals, but how about you try imagining what it's like growing up in poverty in a housing project in bed stuy with one parent, no father as a role model, crappy schools, no reason to think that the world is going to be a better place for you, etc.
to just say people are evil or not is crazy. the vtech guy...now he had evil inside him, no doubt.
but some of the kids in bed stuy are trapped in a cycle of poverty...some of which is caused by those of us with means to push them out and ignore their existence.
THAT is the problem here.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 1:33 PM
sorry, my comment was for 1:21...not 1:09.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 1:35 PM
Get a big dog - scary-looking, but sweet-natured. There are tons of pit mixes you can adopt.
BTW, EFB, you have way more courage than I - I would have moved after the second incident.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:36 PM
Agree with 1:09. Everyone here thinks gentrification is such a great thing, mostly out of false hope it's going to push all the "undesirables" out the neighborhood. But it's not working that way. With Section 8, projects, and other factors it's the poor who will be the last to move out.
Who gets pushed out of these neighborhoods - working class, lower middle class, and the middle class - people that these neighborhoods ACTUALLY need. All these wealthy people moving into Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Fort Greene (and please don't cry, oh I'm not rich - if you can buy an $800,000 home you're practically in the top 10% of the country.) are not necessarily making things better for everyone in these communities. They're creating more class and social turmoil, and extremes like this, wealthy people vs extreme poor, well, expect a pressure cooker situation.
Prices HAVE to come down to give regular working class and middle class a better, opportunity to live in these hoods. Not people who are demanding gourmet coffee shops and speciality cheese stores, but at lease insist on clean supermarkets that everyone can afford to go. People who will be sending their kids to the local public schools (yeah, mostly because they can't afford private schools) but will attend PTAs and be involved, whose children will help have a stabilizing effect on other kids.
Working class folks care about their neighborhood, will sweep their porch steps, and maintain their properties, if they're not spending more than half their monthly income on just the mortgage. and yes, I'll say it, Brown and Black faces that will not be so intimidating, that will blend in and not be the constant reminder to those struggling what they lack and their status on the totem pole of capitalism.
Until that happens, a million dollar home in these neighborhoods is a horrid waste. And people who move into those homes will be putting themselves in harm's way.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:41 PM
Just want to make one point about Bed-Stuy: it is a huge neighborhood, twice the size of other 'hoods in the Brownstone Belt. There is a great deal of variation from one street to the next. Personally I've lived in the Western end of Bed-Stuy for 2 years and never had any problems - and that includes plenty of times walking home late at night from the subway. And interestingly, on my block and nearby blocks I have never seen evidence of any car break-ins, whereas in Ft. Greene where we used to live broken glass on the street was a common occurrence. I am not meaning to be a Pollyanna about crime in Bed-Stuy; I know it exists and is heightened by the economic disparity. I'm just saying that people who say "Ohmigod! I would NEVER live in Bed-Stuy!" should come spend a few weeks on my block. There's a great vibe here with immaculately kept homes and a sense that people are looking out for each other. That being said, I don't get why people are blaming the victim here. It's dreadful that this guy has experienced so much in 3 years, and if I were him I would be thinking about moving too. Maybe for whatever reason his block has some tenacious bad elements. Whether he stays or goes, I wish him luck.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:42 PM
I should've known that this would turn into a discussion about gentrification. I was just telling my personal story and not really trying to make any bigger points about displacement, rich vs. poor, etc. You can obviously draw your own conclusions.
I don't think the people who attacked me did so out of retribution for gentrification. I think they were opportunists. They saw an opening and pounced. I really don't know what went through their heads, but something tells me it wasn't revenge for my new French doors.
Posted by: eatingforbrooklyn at April 26, 2007 1:46 PM
jesus. hard to believe people still have the nerve to type out the "crime as a result of gentrification" argument. so prior to gentrification, when poor people mugged other poor people, what was the justification then? preposterous. the ONLY difference is that gentrification brings affluent people who complain more loudly about crime, post about it on blogs, etc. which by the way is a good thing, if it brings more attention to the problem.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:51 PM
"move to the safer parts of brooklyn for less. bensonhurst and gravesend is cheaper and better."
All I can say to that is, eeewhh. Not even if it were free.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 1:56 PM
Eating move to Downtown Jersey City or better yet Hoboken NJ. The Brownstones are not as great but the area is safer than BedSTUY. I live in Hoboken and walk around at all times of the night. Own a clapboard row house in the downtown area and rent it out. Go at all times of the night and have never had a problem. Of course crime can occur anywhere but Bed Stuy may be a bit too rough for you .
Posted by: JC at April 26, 2007 1:56 PM
I love how people love to put their 'political' spin on everything....
People arent robbing people in Bed-Stuy b/c their pissed about gentrification....nor are poor people robbing rich people to exact some sort of social justice.
Criminals arent exactly an ambitious group - they generally vicitimize those that are closest and easiest to victimize. There are simply more criminals living in neighborhoods like Bed-Stuy then in Brooklyn Heights and therefore your more likely to be robbed in Bed Stuy. Additionally while there are some crimes that 'cross' racial and economic lines these are the exceptions; Unfortunatly robbing some rich white guy is going to garner a heck of a lot more attention then some poor black or hispanic guy - so the criminals tend to go with the easy prey (see earlier comment re:ambition)- sad to say that your poor (non-gentrifying) neighbors have most likely been victimized by criminals far worse then you.
Which is why zero tolerance for crime is more of a (positive) social program for the poor then anyone else. Despite liberal bias the other way
Posted by: David at April 26, 2007 1:57 PM
I agree with David,
There is this ridiculous, outdated notion that criminals are really good people deep down, but they have a beef with society.
It's the fault of the middle class as oppressors blah blah blah. I thought this sort of crap went out in the Krushev era.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:07 PM
i don't believe anyone said they are really good people deep down.
evil?? don't buy it.
we weren't talking about a murder here. we were talking about a pickpocket essentially.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 2:22 PM
EFB--
My neighbor, who owns in the neighborhood, has been mugged 3 times as well-- all three times by the gang of teens that hang out around the Utica Avenue stop on the A. My neighbor is a young, professional, black gay man who, unfortunately, likes to listen to his ipod or chat on his cell on the way home from the subway late in the evening. He's gone through the same thought process as you, and decided to stay, although he's decided to stow the cell and ipod in his bag until he gets home.
I think I probably live near you in Bed Stuy-- we've been here since 2003 as well and never had a problem, and whether it's dumb luck, wrong place-wrong time, or something else, I'm sorry you've had this happen to you so many times. As above, being more aware, joining/forming your block association, talking to the neighbors, etc. are helpful and constructive ideas. I also do think that 1.36 pm and others' comments about getting a huge scary-looking dog would be quite effective as well, on two counts-- people are are more likely to leave you alone when accompanied by one, and since you'll need to walk him every day you can use that opportunity to get to know many more of your neighbors. I walk my dog every morning and evening on all of the streets between Halsey and Chauncey and I've made many friends on these blocks-- and not all of them are dog owners, surprisingly. Maybe raising your profile in the neighborhood with the good folks might make you feel better about living in BS?
And for those of you making the argument that these poor criminals are just mugging people because they have no other options in life, save it. They’re mugging people because they’re sociopaths who think the world owes them something. They have no respect for others; it has nothing to do with gentrification. Yeah, like there was no crime whatsoever in Bed Stuy before the rich yuppies moved in and made everyone feel all displaced and shit. Give me a break.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:26 PM
I am really sorry but I am crying with laughter.
I lived in bed stuy 10 years ago.. a 25 year old little white girl and I was a bartender and came home on the train at 3 or 4 in the morning. .. And it was a pretty slummy place.. the cheapest place in all of new york on a train that I could find to be precise.
And I own a house in the neighborhood now… so it’s been 10 year in the neighborhood.
I can not imagine what you would have to do to get “stones and bottles” thrown at you.
I’m not suggesting it is a crime free paradise (although I have never had an incident) but I am saying that either you are cursed or.. what’s more likely is that you hate your neighbor’s.. and so they hate you back.
Seriously.. there is no reason to get mugged 3 times in a year.. even in big bad bed stuy. And seriously.. you have to suck the big one to get “stones and bottles” thrown at you. Or you are really just being a drama queen about a couple of kids playing kid jokes and pranks.
Posted by: brk2 at April 26, 2007 2:28 PM
EFB - You are indeed a very courageous individual for having moved to Bed Stuy back in '03. However, I don't know whether the mental and physical aggravation is worth it anymore. I personally would pack up and count my chips somewhere else. You are no less of a person if you decide to move on.
The neighborhood will continue to evolve, but it will take years before it may be considered "safe" in most people's minds. I'm not saying that pockets of safety and well-maintained blocks don't exist. I'm simply saying that the overwhelming social and economic issues holding the neighborhood back will continue to be there. The type of change required on so many different levels in order for Bed Stuy to fully "gentrify" is still quite a few years away. You must decide whether you want to risk waiting it out. Either way, you are a trailblazer regardless of whether you stay or go.
Those punks that assaulted you will be on the same street corner in 10 years. They prey on those they deem easier targets and are thus cowards themselves. You are probably a victim of unfortunate circumstance. However, you have my respect and best wishes.
Posted by: JWhite at April 26, 2007 2:29 PM
Some of you folks are so lame and dumb! Not everyone is rich and can afford to buy a huge beautiful Bed-Stuy quality brownstone in Cobble Hill, Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights where the same Stuy Heights townhouse would cost you $3-$4 million more! Why would someone white and gay move to Bed-Stuy? For the HOUSE stupid!
Some of us, who are of more meager means, simply want to own a nice house and have to "get in where we fit in,” i.e., where we can afford to live. Everyone knows that the nabes east of Flatbush Avenue (e.g. Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Crown Heights and Prospect Lefferts Gardens) are predominantly black, economically diverse and with much higher crime rates than the nabes west of Flatbush Avenue. Nevertheless, families increasingly continue to move into these neighborhoods because (a) the housing stock is truly spectacular; (b) the risk of crime is well understood and accepted; (c) the upside potential is far greater than the rest of brownstone Brooklyn; and (d) people understand that the vast majority of residents are hard working law abiding citizens who truly want their neighborhood to improve and change for the better.
And you know what? Things are changing and will continue to change for the better. The gentrification wave that is engulfing all of brownstone Brooklyn is virtually unstoppable and will ensure that nabes like Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights will not be left behind. Now that doesn't mean that the journey will be easy because it rarely is. Man, when I first bought in Fort Greene 15 years ago it was rougher than rough and my friends and family thought I was nuts. But I stayed and rode it out. There are still muggings in and around the park (projects are literally on the other side) but I wouldn't change anything. I loved the hood then and I love it now. I'm sure Bed-Stuy buyers feel the same about their nabe too. In the end, you got to be smart about living in a “developing neighborhood” and the lifestyle/sacrifice isn't for everyone. For example, if you’re looking to buy on the cheap into an architecturally superior neighborhood then you basically limited to nabes east of Flatbush Avenue and simply have to expect some headaches (a lack of goods and services, crime, etc.) until those nabes more fully mature. On the other hand, if money is no object and you don't want the hassle of living through the growing pains of a slowly gentrifying nabe then I would move to one of the “more established” neighborhoods west of Flatbush. I personal prefer the race, class, cultural and economic diversity that exist in the nabes east of Flatbush Avenue - but different strokes for different folks.
Sorry to hear of your plight EFB. You seem like a real good person and it’s so sad that the horrible actions of a few knuckleheads have tainted your experience. I was in your exact same shoes years ago. Like I said, it won’t be easy. In my fifteen years in Fort Greene I’ve witnessed many temporary upswings (some would call it head fakes) in the neighborhood before it eventually took off for good in the late ‘90s. Bed-Stuy is a great nabe and I see it taking off too but it won’t happen overnight. The sooner you accept this reality the easier it will be to adjust.
Posted by: S. Portland and No Regrets at April 26, 2007 2:29 PM
I don't think it was pick-pocketing, it was mugging, which is a violent crime.
There is nothing benign about a mugging.
It is an evil act. If you don't think so them you are somehow impaired either morally or ethically.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:31 PM
You might want to read again.
It was three times in three years, not three times in one year.
Posted by: EJ at April 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Criminals don't rob random victims. They SELECT their victims. Just like the cops, criminals PROFILE their victims.
What makes a good victim? Is it their gender, is it their race, is it their sexuality or is it their age?
None of the above. A good victim is someone who has potential for a big payout. Right now, the best mark seems to be Average Joe Whiteboy and his girlfriend . For some reason, they regularly walk the streets with $500 in the wallet or purse. A $500 "payout" is a lot for your average mugger.
Too many White Folks walk around with 500 bucks stuffed in their wallets or purses. You make yourselves an easy mark. Every time one of you gets robbed and taken for your $500, 40GB ipod and Treo you simply make the bullseye that much bigger on the next white guy.
I'm a black man with plenty of money and fancy toys, just like Joe Whiteboy. However, i don't walk around with a wad bills in my pocket and i don't flash my 'toys' as I'm walking down the street.
Collectively, all you Joe Whiteboys need to change your image in da Hood. If you stopped acting like human ATMs maybe the criminals will stop treating you as such. Stop walking around with so much cash.. Thats just plain stupid.
Posted by: Stop Snitchin' at April 26, 2007 2:35 PM
looked at brownstone on hancock in 2003, did not feel welcomed by neighbors and bought in clinton hill. feel we definitely made the right choice. places with a lot of projects; ie bedstuy, harlem, will never be that safe. beautiful brownstone blocks do not get rid of projects or the crime associated with them. safer than they were perhaps, but never to the level people want. then no place is.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 2:39 PM
I'm all for stopping gentrification, lets get back on with slumification.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 2:43 PM
I totally agree with Stop Snitching, that's why this Joe Whiteboy wouldn't set foot in Bed Stuy if you pay me.
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 2:49 PM
Wow; this is the brownstoner of old 80+ post in record time
I see Bed Stuy is still a "hot" for more than one reason
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 2:50 PM
Anon 2:39 do you even know how ridiculous you sound? It has not been all that long that your beloved "right choice" has been considered "acceptable" by buyers like you, and you can thank others who have lived there far longer and worked hard for making it the hip destination that you covet. Barf.
Posted by: puh-lease at April 26, 2007 2:53 PM
It really depends on how the guy feels. I don't blame him for buying in Bed Sty, for being a target or a mark of some kind. I understand what it is too to be deep in renovation and deep in debt. I really don't know his block or what is happening with him, but if he decides to stick it out, I think that he needs to get comfort, friendship, help and encouragement and the protection from his neighbors. The more of an insider he is the better. He needs friends and allies. There is always someone who is a leader, who commands respect (or fear) of the neighborhood and it is good to try to figure out what is going on and get support. Gradually somehow I became a known entity on my block, first for all of my struggles with renovation, insane tenants, etc. and then helping a few people out and now we watch out for one another. I wish that for this man, whereever he goes.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 3:00 PM
puh-lease, are we talking about crime or "my choice?" i don't care how long you lived in a place, those areas with a lot of projects will never be that safe. period. "acceptable" is irrevelant.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 3:00 PM
And by "hip" you mean relatively low crime, because we all know hip = high-crime.
I love the "crime can happen anywhere" platitudes. I presume they are all written by mathematically-challenged liberal arts graduates.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:00 PM
There are vast stretches of Bed-Stuy without any projects.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:04 PM
first of all...stop snitchin...the mugger never even knew the guy had 500 bucks in his pocket as he apparently only got a few singles, so your arguement is invalid.
secondly...what's the point of having toys if you're too afraid to use them in your own neighborhood.
i know i'll get bashed for that one, and i realize that's just me, but personally i don't work hard, pay my bills, save money etc to be holed up in my apartment playing with my toys in the dark.
to each his own obviously, but i've always been of the mind that i'd rather have a smaller place in a nice hood than a larger one in a ghetto.
i love being able to walk home from the train while listening to a couple tunes or talkin on the phone.
if not, what's the point of living???
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 3:04 PM
i love you people that talk about the gradual process of gentrification.
you do realize that when you gentrify bed stuy, the people are just moving one or two neighborhoods farther east. then in a few more years, we'll hear the same effing things about brownsville till those people are left to go to the rockaways and so forth.
if you want to do some actual good for the world, how about trying to figure out a way to help those less fortunate than you instead of how to turn your 1 million dollar home into a 3 million dollar one.
you all are SO transparent.
it makes me sick.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:09 PM
hey 3.09, go volunteer in Calcutta mr-holier-than-thou.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:14 PM
i volunteer quite a bit already here at home in new york, where believe it or not, is it quite needed.
if perhaps some of you did the same (since you all seem to be so priviledged and think a million bucks is nothing for a home) it would only make sense that you do your part to improve a neighborhood that has not been your home for generations as is the case in bed stuy.
there is a ton of history in that neighborhood and those of you tearing in and uprooting many of the people that have been there for generations should do something to contribute to the neighborhood instead of trying to rape as much money from it as you can.
if you love your neighborhood...that's one thing. i doubt many of the white people who move into bed stuy LOVE it. they want to make a buck. fine, that's what capitalism is...go with that. but if you are going to do it, give something back.
that's all i'm sayin.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:19 PM
Stop snitching,
Why not give classes on how to deal with low-lifes, thugs, and criminals since you sound so good at it? Maybe you could teach at a community college "Dealing with Deviants 101".
Stop blaming the victim, and being so cold and so superior.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:22 PM
I would just like to state for the record that I didn't uproot anyone. I bought from a couple who had only been there for less than 10 years and retired down south. They chose to sell. They made a nice profit and could retire.
I started loving bed stuy again, but then... well you know the story (now).
Posted by: eatingforbrooklyn at April 26, 2007 3:22 PM
When I visit my white friends who live in black neighborhoods, Harlem now or Fort Greene back in the day, I am always suprised by the level of hostility on the street to whites from black teens. Whenever I mention this to white people who live in the neighborhoods, they are in complete denial as are my black freinds.
Obviously its not the majority that is the problem, but there is no denying that there is a criminal element that targets white and asian people.
I don't know how many times I have seen white people attacked in a black neighborhoods, its more common in Philly and DC, sometimes its not even a mugging, but just a hard smack for laughs.
What's crazier is that white people don't fight back, but just take it. I don't know if its white middle class guilt or what, but unless you stand up for yourself low lifes will take advantage of you. I think alot of it is how you carry yourself. Keep your wits and act like you belong and don't back down.
Now if there were a series of attacks by whites in Brooklyn or Harlem targeting blacks, do you think the NY Times would cover it? Of course they would, but you never hear about this phenomenon in the press. Pathetic.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:27 PM
Stop snitching...your an idiot. I for one think EFB may be a easy target and has bad luck with thugs, but its no excuse for him to be attacked just for living his life. I know plenty of "white boys, Asians, gays, blah-blah" that know how to prevent a confrontation (dark blocks!!) and would smack someone for throwing a bottle or stone at them. Just as I know plenty of "brothers" who would be easily robbed for their toys. As I said before the city is not a safe place, but we can have a decent and generally safe life here.
The problem of gentrification is the notion by some of the new entrants that everything existing is all useless and ghetto. Therefore it must be rid of. The soul of a neighborhood is not just the housing, but the decent people and culture that also make up the nabe. Don't generalize the rest of the population with the criminal element when you say the place is a dump and it should be cleaned up.
Posted by: QBorBK at April 26, 2007 3:29 PM
on the stones and bottle thing. it sounds probably worse than it is. stones were thrown from the rooftop and a glass bottle by a bunch of teenagers on the street both at two different times. at the time i brushed it off as "kids whadya gunna do?" with the snowballs i didn't brush it off and probably should've.
Posted by: eatingforbrooklyn at April 26, 2007 3:35 PM
“looked at brownstone on hancock in 2003, did not feel welcomed by neighbors and bought in clinton hill. feel we definitely made the right choice. places with a lot of projects; ie bedstuy, harlem, will never be that safe. beautiful brownstone blocks do not get rid of projects or the crime associated with them. safer than they were perhaps, but never to the level people want. then no place is. “
Sorry to rehash old stuff but sometimes you simply have no choice:
I have friends who bought beautiful townhouses in Bed-Stuy on great blocks that are miles away from any projects. Most of the large projects in Bed-Stuy, e.g., Marcy, Sumner and Thompkins, are contiguous and exist in the far northeast section of the neighborhood along the Bushwick border. Moreover, what’s the big deal with housing projects as they exist throughout brownstone Brooklyn. And the housing projects in Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens (Wycoff, Gowanus), Dumbo/Vinegar Hill (Farragut), Fort Greene (Ingersoll, Whitman), and Clinton Hill (Lafayette), for example, are located much closer to the prime section of those nabes than the Marcy projects is to brownstone Bed-Stuy and Stuy Heights. In any event, the last time I checked all of the above mentioned nabes are doing pretty well despite their proximity to public housing. So no one in Clinton HIll, which has its own share housing projects, should be condemning any other nabe because public housing exist within their borders.
Lastly, please stop the neighborhood pissing contest (e.g., SPer, et al). If you've been on this site for any length of time you would certainly know that this form of persuasion (e.g,., my hood is better than yours, please move here) rarely hits the mark and is the most ineffective use of one's time.
Posted by: Park Slop'n at April 26, 2007 3:35 PM
you're right 3:35.
it's common knowledge at this point that park slope is number one. no one needs to bring it up any longer.
it's the hood that started the whole freaking brownstone craze in the first place. if it weren't for park slope, there would be no gentrification of ft. greene, clinton hill, bed stuy.
sorry, but it's true.
everyone buying a brownstone these days...whether they want to admit it or not, wishes they could afford one in park slope. end of story.
myself included.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:40 PM
Hey 3:35...did you copy and paste your comment from yesterday to today? Funny how your whole projects tirade with all the names (you are clearly very "up" on the names and locations) is the exact same as your post yesterday on a different thread.
Have some sortof sick obsessions with housing projects, do we??
Oh and for the record, nowhere in Bed Stuy are the projects "MILES" away!!!! You clearly don't have any sense of distance at all. I guarantee you that if you stand at any point in Bed Stuy, you are within A MILE (or less) of a project.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:44 PM
3:40pm you are completely incorrect. Brooklyn Heights started the "shift" to the brooklyn market, followed by Williamsburg.
Please do some research before openning your mouth.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:51 PM
What a complete loser. Who moves at 1am ANYWHERE in the city? Take a karate class and stop your whining - my guess is that he has a "kick me" sign all over him. Dork.
Posted by: M at April 26, 2007 3:52 PM
Common sense, yes, but criminals don't have common sense and do unexpected things in unexpected places at unexpected times. You can't blame the victim AND you can't congratulate yourself for being so smart if you've never been robbed. Sometimes, it's just bad luck. Having said that, I would ask OP to ask himself: are these the only three bad things to go down in four years? Bad luck plus carelessness. Do you have other problems on your block (tough guys, noisy parties, excessively late street activity, drugs, empty houses or SROs)? If so, then why stay. You've probably made enough since 2003 to try someplace safer because right now, and understandably so, that's your big issue. No guarantees of safety anywhere--Newsflash: people in the burbs get robbed--but another nabe might have a better vibe for you.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:57 PM
"i doubt many of the white people who move into bed stuy LOVE it." - because you're in on the consensus of poor white folks in big bad bedstuy amongst (gasp) people who aren't white.
you're pretty stupid for that comment.
I read all the comments and I decided not to comment at but this is just getting out of control. first of all, as a young professional black woman living in stuyvesant heights I was walking home from subway on nostrand with my notorious big hoodie, black sweats and timberlands and was slapped in the back of the head by a group of kids who I believe would have tried to attack me had I not immediately turned from victim to ass-kicker (risking my life as they could have clearly shot me if they wanted to). I was so pissed I chased them as far as I could until stopped by one of my neighbors. I said that to say it could happen to anyone. I'm not white, or gay, or new to the nabe so its ridiculous to say 'why would you move to bedstuy if you're gay'.
EFB I admire your courage to stand up for your decision and follow your dream to own a brownstone as I understand its easy to be discouraged by idiots who say stuff like "move to the other side of flatbush" or "you couldn't pay me to live in bedstuy" - good, we won't. I totally understand what its like to be caught up in the craziness of a move well into the early am. no, I don't believe a mugger would have known that you have money in your pocket 1am in the morning but the fact that you were moving meant you were new to the nabe and you may not have been very alert because it was raining and you were just trying to be over and done.
I'm really sorry that happened to you and I know it must be frustrating and scary but don't be run out of a place you truly enjoy because of a few jerks.
if you continue to get attacked it may be because they're targeting you. word gets around the neighborhood about everything. perhaps you should be more alert and get something to make you feel safe. for me, I got a boyfriend who was 290lbs, 6'6" and it worked like a charm. when I'd walk down the street I'd hear the neighborhood guys whispering 'don't mess with lil' mama thats big man's girl'. that said, some people can really get away with walking the street alone. sometimes it takes a little more to feel protected. my advice would be to take on a 'I'm tired of ppl f@$%^&g with me' attitude and show that you're not scared by walking with confidence. good luck with your stay in brooklyn if you choose to stay, if not, chalk it up to life experience.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 3:58 PM
Stop Snitching: Obviously your average criminal was stoopid as f--k if he couldn't even take the $500 off his average white guy target.
In general: MAJOR TENSION IN THE 'HOOD. So much for diverstiy. People just do not like change. "There goes the neighborhood" is what a lot of people are thinking when they see the hipsters, white guys, etc. . . moving in. And the resentment is palpable.
Does it deserve violence? No. But violence is an inevitable result. It's the easiest way to respond to a situation that's out of one's control.Sad but a fact.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:00 PM
anon 3:58 here - oh yea and I second someone else who said that many parts of bedstuy are farther than a lot of "nicer" neighborhoods from the nearest housing project. in nyc everyone is a stone throw from public housing but bedstuy is one of the largest neighborhoods in the COUNTRY stuyvesant heights is definitely farther away from the projects than other neighborhoods like ft greene, and other neighborhoods that are considered "nicer"
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:02 PM
This thread really makes me want to go out and spend a couple of million dollars on a house in Brooklyn.
The fall of apartheid is a hard business anywhere. The process has begun in New York to a limited extent thanks to the younger generation who are putting aside their elders' taboos.
I wish them luck.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:03 PM
Stop Snitchin' - Are you oblivious to the fact that the majority of victims who have suffered as a result of the street ethos of "stop snitchin" are in fact families who have lost loved ones? If so, are you that clueless to the fact that a great deal of crimes where "stop snitchin" is used by the witnesses is one of the main reasons why these crimes aren't solved? Your ignorance trumps your bank account.
Nevertheless, anyone living in NYC should be aware that unfortunate events do happen regardless of your surroundings. Being discreet when it comes to cell phones, Ipods, etc. is usually a better bet.
EFB, I grew up off of 125th in Harlem and back in the days kids threw bottles off the trains at people all the time. They also unscrewed the lightbulbs from the train station and tossed them at people as well. NYC can be wild. Period. Knuckleheads will be knuckleheads.
Handle your business the best way you deem appropriate and feel confident in your decision. You blazed a path in '03 and took a chance. Kudos to you. Now make sure you live to tell about your harrowing experiences :-)
Posted by: JWhite at April 26, 2007 4:05 PM
on a completely off note..why do "professional" black people, always have to state that they are "professional" black people...what the heck does that mean anyway???
nways....carry on
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:05 PM
Petty thugs DO have social issues on their minds- I know three different young single white people who have moved into traditionally black neighborhoods (Prospect Heights, Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy) and each gotten punched in the head by someone who then ran away without asking for money. I believe that punching white people in black neighborhoods has become a real anti-gentrification statement lately, which is sad and ridiculous, because the three people I mentioned certainly weren't "evil gentrifying landlords out to get someone", they were people who, like many of us, can barely afford to live in NYC and (naively, I guess) moved wherever they could find housing.
Also, to Park Slop'n- as someone who has worked next door to several notorious Housing projects in Bklyn, I happen to know that they ARE a big deal. Especially to the people who live there. And sometimes seeing the nearby area prospering while you're stuck in the projects can make people angrier and more scared than before.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:05 PM
anon 405 professional black ppl have to make the distinction lest they be categorized as one of the loser kids in the neighborhood who are throwing bottles at ppl, wouldn't want all black people to be put in the same category now would we? its the same reason why people think its relevant that he's white and gay - its important when people are implying that your race, social status, sex and profession makes a difference.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:10 PM
Yeah,
Poor white people. They ALWAYS get the short end of the stick. It's always been that way and some things just never seem to change. Keep telling the truth anon 3:27.
And the NY Times, they are the worst in this respect.
Posted by: bgbs at April 26, 2007 4:15 PM
Anonymous 4:05 PM, perhaps they mention it because of the sheer ignorance of some, who assume that gentrification equates automatically to "whites" moving into a neighborhood. When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:15 PM
why is it that people think something is new just because they never heard of it before? 4:05, lots of people got punched before your friends. i was jumped by two kids in 2003 in clinton hill and beaten up, apparently for the fun of it, as they made no move to rob me. i don't remember if it was an anti-gentrification beating, or just a good ol' fashioned ass-whuppin'. i believe the correct term is 'wilding,' and it's a statement of nothing but surly-teen angst.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at April 26, 2007 4:18 PM
4.15, you'll have a tough time educating the race monomaniacs here on that.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:26 PM
3:51 you are kidding, right? No, you're probably not.
Ok. Here's the thing. There are these things called "books" and also something called the "Internet" (it's the same thing you are using to make words with right now!) You can use them both to research this thing called "history", where you can learn about what happend a long, long time ago in New York. Like 20 years ago, or even longer!
P.S. - If you look really, really far back? Like hundreds of years ago, way before Instant Messaging or even TV? You'll find that Brooklyn Heights was a high-end place from a long time ago! Crazy!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:28 PM
4:28, So was most of brownstone brooklyn. You're a dumbass.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:41 PM
thank you 4:28.
and 3:51 is also so ignorant to think that williamsburg was gentrified AFTER park slope.
he must have moved here 5 minutes ago.
i hate to break it to you, but park slope started to gentrify in the 1970's....oh about 20 YEARS BEFORE WILLIAMSBURG MORON!!!
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 4:44 PM
There was a time when Brooklyn, including Brooklyn Heights, was not considered a prime NYC residential location - Manhattan was.
Do some more research, 4:28. I'm thoroughly convinced, given the limitations of your vocabulary, that you can't be any older than 16, and am now annoyed that I bothered responding to you.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:46 PM
the point was not which neighborhood was nice from the start. it was about which neighborhood started the trend of gentrification in brownstone brooklyn. it was NOT brooklyn heights. the heights has always been rather nice.
park slope started the trend idiots.
totally not on topic. sorry.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 4:47 PM
if 4:22 is 16, 4:46 is twelve.
brooklyn heights has always been a nice neighborhood. even during the "bad" years it was still quite nice. i lived there in the 70's and it's not that much different than today.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:50 PM
"As someone who has worked next door to several notorious Housing projects in Bklyn, I happen to know that they ARE a big deal. Especially to the people who live there. And sometimes seeing the nearby area prospering while you're stuck in the projects can make people angrier and more scared than before.'
Anon 4:05PM,
Well if that's the case should all white people leave the following nabes that have a large public housing population: Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens (Wycoff, Gowanus), Dumbo/Vinegar Hill (Farragut), Fort Greene (Ingersoll, Whitman), and Clinton Hill (Lafayette). You make it sound like residents of housing projects are straight out of "Dawn of the Dead" and that it's only a matter of time before they revolt in mass and annihilate every white person in sight. Are you serious?
Anon 4:05PM, is this what you advocate? White flight? Do you seriously think that whites and blacks, poor and rich, can not live with one another peacefully?
Posted by: Curious at April 26, 2007 4:51 PM
Hey, 4:46, it's 4:28 here. Seriously. Try "Google" or one of those other new-fangled "search engines" i've heard about. It will tell you that Brooklyn Heights was the original high-end neighborhood in New York City. Poor people lived and worked in the city, while rich people took these things called "ferries" to Brooklyn. That's why there are so many nice "houses" there - because that's where rich people lived.
Alternately skip it and just go back to Curbed.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:52 PM
i'm totally appalled by everyone playing the race card, especially since EFB never once mentioned the race of his attackers (or his own race, for that matter).
it's about poverty, people, and lack of education and opportunity, not race or gentrification.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:55 PM
wow. i'd say judging by this thread and the one on curbed a couple weeks ago about long island city that topped out at over 300 comments, we know which two neighborhoods in new york are the hottest right now.
everything in bed stuy is SOLD OUT!!!!!
sorry...bad joke.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:55 PM
"...When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift."
What's going in these hoods are both Race and Class. Starting in the 1990s, college-educated blacks were starting to move back into Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene-Clinton Hill. Some grew up there and instead of moving away to the suburbs or other areas after college they came back, some were new who, after growing up on Spike Lee movies, rap which was more political or cultural back then, and the whole "black pride" thing going on, moved in as well. It was a Cultural Rennaissance, of sorts, and the crack epidemic was waning and crime went down, so things changed positively.
Some whites were moving in too, and let's not forget, there were ALWAYS a handful of whites who lived there, but it was different. Some were social worker/teacher types, some artists, and it wasn't a sense that they were very different from everyone else economically. Many lived thru the crime wave of the eighties and were still there.
Then came the real estate boom in late nineties, and prices shot up. Now when new people move in, particurly whites, people know that those newbies have more money. Also many moving in are naive about where there are, and people can sense it. Crime is still there. Poor kids seem more desperate and angry than ever. and they're taking advantage of those they consider easy targets with money. It's a shame, but I think it will only get worse.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 4:57 PM
In the early 1970'a banks would not give you a mortgage to buy a house in Park Slope. Believe it or not. The early "pioneers" put pressure on the pols and with the help of Brooklyn Union Gas and other institutions, obliged local banks to give local mortgages. Most of brownstone Brooklyn was redlined.
Brooklyn Heights started to be re-gentrified in the 1960's, read Clay Lancasters "Old Brooklyn Heights, America's FIrst Suburb" for that lowdown.
Today we may be suffering from too much success. The middle class is being priced out of even marginal brownstone neighborhoods. Who would have guessed it? It's one damn thing after another.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:06 PM
Just because it's still well maintained and "nice" doesn't make it prime.
"Brooklyn Heights was the original high-end neighborhood in New York City."
Exactly. Fast forward now...when Wall Street money decided that they no longer found manhattan to be the place where they wanted to spend big money on their homes and were looking towards Brooklyn, they chose Brooklyn Heights - not Park Slope.
When Brooklyn Heights became "old news" they shifted focus to Williamsburg.
The only people that believe they started any type of trend when they moved to Park Slope, are those that live their.
For the record, there are a number of brooklyn brownstone neighborhoods that were affluent "originally". Google is fun when you need a quick fact check. I prefer history volumes.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:10 PM
There are no public housing projects in Park Slope
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 5:13 PM
Dear Curious,
I certainly am NOT advocating white flight, I'm just conveying the feelings that some teens who live in housing projects have expressed to me. One kid was so scared that the government would sell his housing project in DUMBO to gentrifiers that he'd practically packed his bags. I wasn't around when the Crown Heights riots took place, so I don't know how much bad feeling there has to be in the air to spark that kind of activity, but I do know that before I started working in Bed-Stuy and Downtown Bklyn, racial tension was something that happened in novels about integration, not in real life.
Also- I've lived in Boerum Hill, and I have no idea why people seem to coexist better over there. I definitely felt a lot less hostility in the air.
Posted by: Anon 4:05 at April 26, 2007 5:15 PM
from the REAL DEAL...
"The revitalization of Park Slope has spread to many other Brooklyn neighborhoods, including Clinton Hill, Fort Greene, Boerum Hill, Williamsburg and Bedford- Stuyvesant. Finding the bargains of the past in those areas is tough, if not impossible, Neinast said. Bargain hunters are moving to areas such as Red Hook, Bushwick and Greenwood Heights - the area between the south end of Park Slope and Sunset Park"
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:22 PM
This story is a second installment of a three-part series looking at the gentrification of the Upper West Side, Park Slope and Soho more than two decades ago.
Explore Park Slope's Seventh Avenue on a sunny weekend day and you'll see mothers with children tucked in strollers, a packed Barnes & Noble and busy restaurants. Turn off the main drag and the tree-lined cross streets are full of tidy brownstones. Fifth Avenue, once shunned as less desirable, is now a strip of trendy restaurants, bars and shops.
Today's Park Slope, a neighborhood enclave for families and upscale ex-hipsters, began to take visible shape in the 1970s and 1980s, around the same time as the transformation of the Upper West Side and Soho. Manhattan refugees began to discover its brownstones and moved to the neighborhood in search of great deals on more space.
"Park Slope is one of the great recent stories of the outer boroughs, an urban neighborhood that acquired a solid, family-oriented, middle-class identity in the late 1960s and early 1970s and has managed to hold on to that identity in the decade since," The New York Times said in 1984. "It has not become an enclave of the rich, as so many parts of the Upper West Side of Manhattan have done, but neither has its economic base slipped away."
Another Times story that year, by columnist Maureen Dowd - then a lowly beat reporter - recounted the tale of a mother of two who moved from Greenwich, Conn., to a Madison Avenue apartment in Manhattan, then to a four-story brownstone in Park Slope.
"What happened?" one of her acquaintances asked her sympathetically.
But what had happened was an up-and-coming neighborhood and good deals to be had. The woman and her husband paid $267,000 for the townhouse on Berkeley Place, the same amount they got for their two-bedroom coop on the East Side.
"There are some nice apartments on Park Avenue that would have the [same amount of room] for $750,000," the woman was quoted as saying.
New York City planning officials even weighed in with their stamp of approval that year, with a study calling the area a model of "positive" gentrification.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:24 PM
"When in fact it's a class change, not necessarily an ethnic shift." What's going in these hoods are both Race and Class. Starting in the 1990s, college-educated blacks were starting to move back into Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene-Clinton Hill. Some grew up there and instead of moving away to the suburbs or other areas after college they came back, some were new who, after growing up on Spike Lee movies, rap which was more political or cultural back then, and the whole "black pride" thing going on, moved in as well. It was a Cultural Rennaissance, of sorts, and the crack epidemic was waning and crime went down, so things changed positively. Some whites were moving in too, and let's not forget, there were ALWAYS a handful of whites who lived there, but it was different. Some were social worker/teacher types, some artists, and it wasn't a sense that they were very different from everyone else economically. Many lived thru the crime wave of the eighties and were still there. Then came the real estate boom in late nineties, and prices shot up. Now when new people move in, particurly whites, people know that those newbies have more money. Also many moving in are naive about where there are, and people can sense it. Crime is still there. Poor kids seem more desperate and angry than ever. and they're taking advantage of those they consider easy targets with money. It's a shame, but I think it will only get worse "
OMG...I've soo given this same speech to people. I was surprised when people started talking about CH an FG been gentrified over the course of the last few yrs..because that's what it was called when I moved here in the late '80s
ohh..those were the days of wine and roses
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:37 PM
For all you people alleging that class divisions and gentrification is leading to more violence - you clearly have not read the statistics - in NYC crime is at a 40 year LOW.
That being said - crime is not evenly distributed and there is more of it in Bed-Stuy then in most other Brooklyn Nabes.
Posted by: David at April 26, 2007 5:44 PM
David, no one was saying that crime didn't exist in Bed-Stuy before. I think some are saying it's different. Back then it was the crack epidemic and drug dealers. Crime went down in the nineties when that slowed down, but due different factors it's going back up again, as much as Bloomberg would like to deny it. Kids are more hardcore. IT's a different vibe. Class divisions and gentrification do play some role.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:52 PM
actually 5:52 if you would read some statistics before opening your trap you would know that crime in bed stuy was down, i believe 13% last year.
i can see how you might interpret that as "going up"
love all the lies.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 5:57 PM
All of you people who moved to Brooklyn with your "i'll change it attitude" and lack of respect for the people already living here are realizing you must always respect your surroundings and learn how to act.
Posted by: Finally at April 26, 2007 5:59 PM
while i kinda agree with you 5:59 i'm afraid a lot of the people who have moved to bed stuy kinda do it out of desperation because they are frantic that they've been priced out of the other more prime brownstone neighborhoods. the ones i know want to get in for a deal, renovate and get out for a huge profit.
they really don't care about changing the neighborhood and can't wait to get out and get back to a hood that they feel more comfortable in.
you are absolutely right though that they mostly have very little regard for the history, people, traditions, etc. that live there now, and in many cases have families that have lived there for a 100 years. it's a very special neighborhood in that regard.
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 6:05 PM
5:57, keep your head buried in the "statistics" ignoramous. Awww, you afraid I'm going to lower the value of your million dollar brownstone? poor baby.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:06 PM
It seems that teenagers attacking people around the Utica Ave station is a recurrent problem. Those kids hang out in the park in the evening and wait for the right target. Have people approached the precinct about it? How are they responding to those incidents? Could we have more police presence around the subway and Fulton park in the evening? A few cops on foot could make a difference I think.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:07 PM
actually i don't live in bed stuy, because even with the 13% drop last year, i still don't find it to be a neighborhood in which i care to live.
and i live in a studio asswipe.
can you tell me why exactly your opinions mean more than actual facts and statistics????
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:09 PM
The muggee wrote, "The voice of fantasy says "Stick it out. It'll be worth it in the long run." Maybe I was stupid for not having left three and half years ago. With the neighborhood in transition and deep into renovation and debt,""
I don't understand how people can put a price tag on their personal safety. "It'll be worth it if i make a couple hundred grand."
What happens if it doesn't work out as planned? Did you get robbed for nothing?
Posted by: Stop Snitchin' at April 26, 2007 6:10 PM
Finally at 5:59, I agree. However if crime is a problem in a neighborhood, this is something that everyone should want to change, new and old residents. No one should accept crime and antisocial behaviors such as kids atttacking people on the streets.
Now the person who was complaining on the forum yesterday about people hanging out on "his" sidewalk... That would be a good example of someone who moves to the neighborhoood and complains about the wrong things...
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:16 PM
Park Slope vic was a big baby, but EFB at least has had some staying power.
Still, people seem to like to overpay to be around danger. EFB surely didn't HAVE to buy over in Bed-Stuy. He could've paid about the same to live on a quaint limestone block in Bay Ridge or Sunset Park, but I guess there's not enuf street crime down that way to draw "hipsters." Is it the thrill of being prey? Being the er, brave, wildebeest that's been seperated from the herd?
Luck to you, EFB, but I've got to wonder if it's worth all this crazy vigilance, negotiating such an obstacle course on your way home every night.
I lived in Bay Ridge and found it kind of dull and inconvenient, then moved to CG, where you'd have to be hanging around the projects steadily to get yourself mugged. It's kinda nice to stumble home drunk at 4 a.m. now and then without sweating bullets. Isn't that one reason people live in NYC instead of in SUV-land?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:17 PM
Mr. "Stop Snitching", You are a clown- boy. If you are really "Hood-Hefner" You could walk around FREE. The people that run the strips do. Big Knot$$$, Jewels, Toys etc. They dare some one to step out of line.
I feel bad for EFB. I suspect it might be the way he carries himself. Criminals, Bored teenagers, oppurtunist will look to test those they feel are weaker than them.
If they even suspected that They could mess around and find themselves on the wrong side of a beat down. They would just leave you alone.
Posted by: We don't believe you, you need more people at April 26, 2007 6:29 PM
What I am missing from reading this debate is any advocate for the working, middle and even wealthy classes of Bed Stuy that have long lived and continue to live in this neighborhood. There are plenty of people here that raise families, go to work, run businesses and contribute to the betterment of the community. Bed Stuy is much more than dead end kids vs privileged gentrified.
Posted by: Dave BS at April 26, 2007 6:31 PM
First of all let me say I'm sorry for what you've been through. There seems to be an edge of blame the victim both with the OP and with subsequent postings about the nabe and the time of the move and the fact he had cash in his pocket. This is BS. You are not to blame for your bad misfortunes. Obviously things could have gone worse. Thankfully they didn't. I think it comes down to can you feel like you are truly at home in this neighborhood after what you've been through? I don't think any of us can answer that for you. This kind of thing could happen anywhere. But for you it didn't. It happened there. So if you are ready for a change that would be completely understandable. And if you want to stick it out that would be too. Good luck.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 7:04 PM
Don't think white people will ever understand us, I swear!
It all boils down to race, let's all just say it and breathe!
Here's a thought:
The experience for black america is far different from most. It is institutional it is documented.
From seperate but equal, segregation, share cropping, jim crow laws, systematic, trials, judicial systems rigged, coin-tel pro, goverments instigating divisions in our commuinity, etc...etc...
These are just some of the things that poverty help contain. Bed-stuy 80's.. drugs introduced to my community by our own goverment, which caused the black crack epi, more black men going to jail, leaving more black children with out black parents. uniform disrespect for the police naturally for doing these things.... It's all systematic, these are the things that the youth of bed-stuy have to deal with daily.
This gentrification thing is pretty new-ish to the youth in the stuy. Most of the dudes I know on the street have never been to manhattan, yet seen more than a few white faces in the hood. They are aware you aren't there by choice and you make an easy target! There area a lot of Kool-Aid drinkers on this board who haven't been around early enough to see what can happen when shit really hits the fan in the hood. Unemployment, Forclosures, Subprime, Falling Dollar, will all have a effect on the stuy, more than any other hood in bk. just look at the ny times map from a month ago.
Summer will tell a tale, the bubbling in these streets are something not seen and felt since B.I.G. died. I know you feel it.
....and brownsville is nothing but projects, so there stops the gentrification train.
Posted by: X BLVD at April 26, 2007 7:07 PM
The "Stop Snitching" comment is a huge insult to all New Yorkers -- whatever their color, creed, or gender. And actually I think it's an especially big insult to the long-standing, up-standing residents of Bed Stuy who have struggled for years to maintain stability and security for ordinary families in the hood. Those who would violently assault others should expect to be punished.
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 7:14 PM
My sympathies go to the mugging victim. However, I am not posting to argue the reasons for such crimes, which are complicated and on which I will not speculate.
Rather I would address the things that trouble me about the nature of this conversation. First off is the downright rudeness in what seems to be the majority of the posts. More troubling still is the unabashed racism coming from some of the white commenters. In this supposedly liberal, tolerant and progressive city, it’s shocking how deep white racism still runs.
When my wife and I moved to Crown Heights five years ago, we understood that it would be we who would need to make adjustments to our cultural attitudes. We came with no expectations that the neighborhood would change in any way by virtue of our presence. Nor did we come to speculate or otherwise invest in real estate. We came to have space to live in, improve the quality of our lives, and create a nest for ourselves.
It’s disappointing to discover that so many white folks who would outwardly embody liberal, progressive attitudes, find their prejudices emerging when faced with the realities in neighborhoods with many oppressed, marginalized people who struggle for everything they have including their identity. Please note that I distinguish between racism and prejudice. I am aware of my prejudices and make a conscious effort to be aware of them.
Now, having said all that, and given the history of racism in America, I would rather be a white man in a black neighborhood than be a black man in a white neighborhood.
Posted by: Hal at April 26, 2007 7:22 PM
Go to a gym and work out you p#$$y
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 7:22 PM
My own crime statistics....I grew up in Brooklyn. I've been flashed and followed in Midwood, Ft Greene and Coney Island. In Park Slope, I've fought with and reported drug dealers, a knife wielding maniac and a wife beater. I witnessed a shooting, a hostage situation and a few burglaries, also in the Slope. Friends of mine have been attacked in Ft Greene and Boerum Hill. I've seen lots of crime over the years, but fortunately, I've never been mugged (knock wood!). I sold my house in Park Slope and moved to Bed Stuy because I do LOVE it and feel comfortable here (yeah, I'm white). I'm not rich by a long shot, but I had $ to upgrade my house from the sale of the Slope home, which I bought for buppkas in the 90's. I've been in the Stuy about 2 years and never had a problem apart from breaking up a family fight and hearing gunshots 2 blocks away. I know most of my neighbors (old timers) and we look out for one another. I think I like it because it reminds me of the city I grew up in. Oh yeah, I know plenty of gay people who live here. Anyway, here's why I think I've never had problems on the streets....I have a self assured "tough" walk and I always make eye contact and say hello if the street isn't crazy crowded. If I'm harassed, I go ballistic on their ass. I'm a little chick. Maybe I'm street smart or maybe I've just been lucky.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 7:30 PM
Hal - Don't confuse being rightly wary of a subculture which idealizes violence, guns and overt misanthropism with being racist.
Perhaps you don't examine your own prejudices as much as you think. I'm sure people here wouldn't be any happier living among the notorious white projects of South Boston.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 8:00 PM
I, a white female in her early thirties, moved to Bed-Stuy earlier this year. My boyfriend, also painfully white, joined me. It's been wholly positive so far. Our landlords (a black couple) seem happy to have our rent check, local business owners have been gracious and welcoming, and even most of our brief encounters with folks on the street have been friendly, even at night. I've been "blessed" more times by toothless old men hanging out on the corner than I can count. A lot of the teenagers look real pissed off, but I smile at them anyway and say "hey, how's it going" if they so much as glance in my general direction. They don't respond, and continue to look real pissed off, but I wouldn't have responded to some smiling freak on the street, black or white, when I was 16 either so it doesn't bother me. I never expected a welcome wagon.
But I suggest everybody feeling the need to make a point here about Bed-Stuy, crime, humanity, racism, or frickin' real estate values, go over to the little stationary store on Tompkins Ave. betw. Hancock and Jefferson, and talk to the owner. He's 70 years old, and sounds 70 but looks a lot younger, and has been running that store for the past 37 years. Raised five kids there, he told me. They used to stand on milk crates behind the counter. The three that are still alive have scattered to the winds, it sounds like: places like Virginia Beach, and Connecticut. He says he might close up shop in another year or so because, more and more, people are buying their candy and notebooks elsewhere, and maybe he'll find something else he likes to do.
I don't for a second think that our conversation did him any good. (Or that my $1 for two blue Papermate pens did either.) That's not why I mention him. Life is infuriating, is all, and people are damaged in all kinds of ways. A little curiosity about what's troubling them can be powerful.
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 8:19 PM
Responding to Anonymous at 8:00 PM who said:
“Hal - Don't confuse being rightly wary of a subculture which idealizes violence, guns and overt misanthropism with being racist.“
I assure you I am not confused about that, nor in my opinion does my post express any ambiguity in that matter.
“Perhaps you don't examine your own prejudices as much as you think. I'm sure people here wouldn't be any happier living among the notorious white projects of South Boston.”
My self examination is limited by my experience, exposure, and the extent to which I am informed of others’. You offer something for me to consider.
Posted by: Hal at April 26, 2007 9:10 PM
I notice quite a few people have posted that being safe in a neighborhood depends on 'how you carry yourself'. It is a myth I hear all the time, even petite white girls in their twenties think they can 'look tough' and that will be enough to deter a mugger. I used to think this myself, and walked thru my own high crime neighborhood,all the time, for years, without incident. Then my luck changed, and I was mugged. Then I was stabbed. Luckily I survived. I finally realized that a drug addict with a gun or a knife,or a group of young muggers with a gun or knife isnt going to be intimidated by ANYONE. Some of you people need to WAKE UP.
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 9:19 PM
Wake up and do what exactly, 9:19? Live in a bubble?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 9:31 PM
9:19, good to hear some sense instead of cheap posturing. If you give the creeps a chance to get near you, they'll eventually bite. You can only bluff so many times in a card game.
Truth is, in tough nabes, you must walk with confidence, but always be ready to make detours around corners where bad guys may be hanging, have a hyperawareness of who might be trailing you, and cross the street long before a potential threat walking toward you gets close. And if they cross, be ready to sprint. Only times I got mugged in the 80s & 90s (none since) was when I slacked on those basic rules. Is all that worth it to save a few bucks on rent or mortgage?
Posted by: anon at April 26, 2007 9:53 PM
"Don't confuse being rightly wary of a subculture which idealizes violence, guns and overt misanthropism with being racist.“
sounds like you're talking about mainstream culture ..
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:15 PM
Hey! You guys want to know why there's so much perceived apathy with respect to Atlantic Yards? Well, most whites who live east of Flatbush Avenue, including myself, fully support the Ratner project because we understand clearly that it will further promote gentrification in our section of brownstone Brooklyn. We definitely need it to continue the great strides that we've made over the past seven years. AY = instant gentrification and without it Prospect Heights, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights run a serious risk of reverting back to the ghetto days of the 1980s. Most people don't want to admit this fact but I will say it here - gentrification yes; slumification no! The reason for the massive indifference and lack of support for opponents of AY is that the majority of transplant understand the AY provides us with more good than bad. For those living east of Flatbush Avenue, AY is indeed the silver bullet that we need to take our nabes to the next level. Bring it on!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:19 PM
It's horrible that he was mugged so many time in such a short space of time. Of course, the chances of getting mugged in a gentrifying nabe like Bed Stuy is high -- I know someone there who was recently mugged at knifepoint. On the other hand, I know people who have been mugged in Brooklyn Heights. And several who have been mugged in Boreum Hill. And Windsor Terrace. I do think a lot of it has to do with pure luck. I've lived in NYC (and New Orleans for a spell, a very dangerous city) for 20 years, and certainly taken plenty of risks in some dicey areas and never been mugged. Why? I've been lucky.
Posted by: anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:34 PM
I had 4 paragraphs as my response, but erased it because I can go on and on.
In my opinion Bed-Stuy is safe, and I love being part of the community. If I may, I would like to suggest that new comers, white and black, do their best to be part of the community. Say hello, smile, look like you actually fit in.
I have theories as to how things can go wrong for the white guy in the "hood," but that would be such a long write up.
So sad that you got robbed, but please know that the working and middle class black folk in the Stuy would love to have you there. Bedstuy has more bad apples than Park Slope, but don't let that deter you from enjoying your home. Good luck.Booke
Posted by: Booker T. at April 26, 2007 11:38 PM
It is amazing a lot of you are tell him to leave and that the slope, and the heights are the best place to live. Many of you moved into these so-called bad neighborhoods because you all thought you were the knight and charming armor. Now something unfortunate has happened and its oh, you can't regentrify every neighborhood. Give me a break, this is NYC and bad things happen to good people. I think for a lot of you your ignorance is shinning very bright.
Posted by: Anon at April 26, 2007 11:45 PM
Miss brk2 - there's nothing funny about this situation. It's people like you that move to Bed-Stuy and don't have a clue about the real people and the real deal and do nothing to help anybody in the community.
There's a big difference between little Miss Ann white girl living in the hood for cheap and an openly gay man (black, white, etc) living, renting/owning there. Bias crimes and slights happen in Bed-Stuy all the time and talked about regularly amongst its gay residents. As is known, homophobia is huge in the black community so shut your face and be part of the solution not laugh at the problem.
I for one have had many gay male friends
jumped in Bed-Stuy with the words faggot and f'n homo hurled at them. I've been called these openly on the street in Bed-Stuy as well. Granted gay-bashing happens everywhere unfortunately but we're talking about Bed-Stuy. Should we move? NO! Should we fight back? YES!
There are a lot of great people in Bed-Stuy and the sense of community (gay and straight) is fabulous. Don't let the scum idiots ruin it. Pull together and fight back!
EFB - reach out to your gay brothers and sisters in Bed-Stuy. We're here for you. Our community is very large within. We'll deal with this. A self defense class is in the making (The Pink Belts)is in preparation for summer.
High kicks and all(keekee).
In the mean time carry yourself anyway you want, sashay if you want, you're free, enjoy life! But also be ready for the thuglettes and ignorant low-glam bashers. Carry yourself some pepper spray, brass knuckles, switchblade, whatever else that you feel will help to protect in case of a threat.
Your home
Makes one question our gun control laws, even when I know how important they are.
My gut tells me it's time to go. What evidence is there that things will get better anytime soon?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 10:36 AM