« Development Watch: 118-122 Vanderbilt Open House Picks »
April 20, 2007
Condos of the Day: 659/661 Carroll Street
After selling out the brownstone condo conversion at 659 Carroll Street in Park Slope, the same developers are gearing up to do the same thing next door at 661. While the prices (which start at $949,000) seem aggressive to us, we have to say that it's refreshing to see a conversion like this that's neither complete crap nor trying to be too "luxury". It looks to us like the developers went for a straight-down-the-middle approach that plays up the original floorboards and fireplace and delivers a very solid product without too much futzing around. Even the bathrooms, which have a modern edge to them, are tastefully done. Of course, the photos we're looking at are of the first building; the second one is under construction, so it's hard to say for sure that they will stay the course. You can go poke around for yourself at the open house on Sunday from 12-2. Small developers, take note. Keeping the original floors made this apartment.
Property #107 [Townsley & Gay] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
i absolutely love these. simple, elegant, gorgeous, tasteful.
i can't comment on price, but they look stunning to me.
Posted by: anon at April 20, 2007 11:44 AM
With you on the floors and the overall understated feel of the reno. Back in our coop hunting days, many moons ago, this would have been very appealing. Now that I've been through a reno (my own house, not a condo) and think about things I never used to notice, a few quibbles. 1. Would it have been better to wrap the kitchen into a U and get a bit more lower cabinet and counter space for food prep and casual (stool) sitting, or would that have taken away to much floor space from the area one might want to put a table. tough call in these spaces. 2. The bathroom design isn't my taste but not weird enough to care. But the space looks ideal for a double sink. Also, I like showing the groutlines with the subway tile -- a different look with inexpensive materials.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 11:53 AM
I agree. Not sure about the price but the clean, quality, but not over the top, finishes are great. Other developers should take note - this is how it should be done - noting too over the top - but not cheapo looking either.
Posted by: lp at April 20, 2007 12:10 PM
Very, very, nice. This is a beautiful apartment. I second the idea about wrapping the kitchen counter around but that's no reason to diss a gorgeous place.
This is what an internet listing should look like. Clear, bright photographs, highlighted with detail and close up photos. Pictures of the bathrooms and kitchen that actually show what they look like. Any open house they have will be packed. Granted, it helps to have such a pristine setting to show, but it is not hard for others to do likewise, especially supposedly top tier firms like Corcoran. Townsley and Gay win my best RE website award, with this one. It is especially welcome after yesterday's condo fiasco.
Posted by: Sterling Silver at April 20, 2007 12:26 PM
Agreed. Looks great. My one complaint is white or light tiles used on the bathroom floor. The house we bought last year has white floor tiles and it shows EVERY BIT OF DIRT AND HAIR and clearly makes me psycho because I have to clean it up everyday. So I always suggest dark floor tiles, lighter wall tiles...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 12:31 PM
Looks good but once real people are living there -- where do they put a dining table, storage?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 12:39 PM
this is new york. and people are realizing that living in a small, well designed and organized space is the way to go more and more and is becoming ever more appealing.
everyone doesn't need 3000 sf to live happily.
we are beginning a new age here. ever heard of global warming?
you should take a look at all the cool stuff they are doing in those apartment therapy small space contest designs. you'd be amazed at what you can do with a little organization of space.
as americans we haven't thought about this too much and have the bigger is better mentality. i hope we are at the tipping point of this way of thinking as it's not healthy for our planet.
Posted by: anonymous at April 20, 2007 12:48 PM
12:48 sounds like a broker or developer.
Posted by: anon at April 20, 2007 12:49 PM
I saw these a while back and the finishes/quality was really lovely. But there was no room for a dining table and the 2nd bedroom was tiny. I am all for living small (I have been living in 470sf with my boyfriend for 4 years), but for $1M. I personally could just not justify the price. Obviously others did...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 12:54 PM
OK, I'm not singing with the choir on this one. Let me just say that an "Ultra Luxury Condo residence" (as per the broker description) should not have those crappy aluminum replacement windows, and certainly not in black. With them so installed, the window bays get a raccoon or heavy-eyeliner look.
The trim and casings are also undersized (baseboard looks OK). Really, the effect of cheap windows and cheap trim is cheap, but the price doesn't reflect this.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 12:59 PM
I agree with 11:53. I'm usually all for opening up a space, but I think that a u-shaped kitchen with counter space and cabinets between the kitchen and living room would make sense. It's a nice kitchen, but if I'm sitting by a fire, I'd like some separation.
Posted by: GHB at April 20, 2007 1:10 PM
I thought second floor exterior decks/terraces weren't allowed by code. Anybody know if they are?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 1:54 PM
we almost made an offer on a 661 unit after seeing 659, but ended up deciding that it was just way too small, not only overall but every room feels tiny. i think the developers were conscientious etc and did a decent job but it is still small. also, the bathroom you get to through the closet feels very cramped and hotel-like. sure they will sell at price
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 1:58 PM
On the kitchen- We have a very similar layout on our top floor brownstone coop. We did our kitchen two years ago in a similar fashion-- L Shaped with a corner sink and thick marble counters. Intead of wrapping the counter around or building an island, we got a simple parsons style dining table base and topped it with the same marble as the counter. It's an island if we need it, but we can also dine with 6 people at it, and it actually makes the space look bigger because it transistions from the fireplace living room to the kitchen with a whole other function. Short of having more space to begin with, we haven't thought that the solution could have worked any better.
Posted by: Park Place at April 20, 2007 2:05 PM
Two tiny bedrooms. Some people could do that, but I couldn't.
Posted by: Gari N. Corp at April 20, 2007 2:14 PM
This makes me appreciate my mother's Bed-Stuy brownstone even more. It looks alot like this and she purchased it in 1980 for 27, 000. The simplicity of it is what I most like. Neutral paint and a bouquet a fresh flowers. Simple & elegant.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 2:30 PM
Again- I like the look of these places, but are they really going for around 1000 s/f? What's the reason again? Isn't that way higher than most places in PS would ever go for? They have another listing (#105) with two bedrooms and a roof deck on 3rd street also between 6th and 7th for 659K. What accounts for the 300K difference? Couldn't you buy the cheaper listing, and add the upgraded appliances, paintjob, bathroom and central air for less than 100K?
Posted by: Park Place at April 20, 2007 2:50 PM
I think if you really take a sampling of places for sale in the North Slope within the historic district you will find that average prices are indeed around the 1000 sf mark.
take a look at www.thevermeil.com
these places are going for what looks to be more like 1400 a sf.
granted they don't seem to be flying off the shelf.
i was speaking to a realtor friend the other week and he said he hasn't seen the demand so high for park slope properties in quite some time. he said anything decent is going pretty fast and for a premium.
makes sense to me. i imagine prospect park in the spring gets a lot of people even more excited about the slope.
Posted by: anonymous at April 20, 2007 3:00 PM
I think the reason that these places do particularly well is partially due to the fact that many Manhattanites are looking at Brooklyn and Park Slope on an ever more increasing scale.
These places are just the kind of place where a person coming from Manhattan cam move right in...a couple let's say...not have to do anything to the place, have the high end finishes, etc. and still be paying probably about 500K to a million less than they would for a similar place in the city.
Just my guess, anyway.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 3:03 PM
i take it back. the vermeil looks like it's a little over 1000 a sf.
hmmm. not sure. maybe they lowered the prices a little bit lately. thought they were more.
in any case, 1000 seems to be about the norm for the good stuff in the north slope.
Posted by: anonymous at April 20, 2007 3:12 PM
I thought the Vermeil was an anomoly, and also was priced so high because it was new construction, with parking and the places are all really huge (although, like my place, it's not in PS 321). I thought that 1000 per s/f or more was strictly heights and dumbo territory, and that until now even 7-800 per s/f was considered really high for Park Slope. Is there also huge condo vs. coop differential?
Posted by: Park Place at April 20, 2007 3:16 PM
well even with the prices at the vermeil, you don't get the parking included. i think it's like 60K extra or something similar.
not sure about that place though...it looks to be sitting there with nothing done to it in ages.
i don't know....i look around here and there on the real estate sites and it seems that a lot of the more prime stuff is inching more towards 1000. could be wrong.
Posted by: anon at April 20, 2007 3:18 PM
If all that's true, then I guess it's time to sell and move to Clinton Hills...
Posted by: Park Place at April 20, 2007 3:27 PM
The market is indeed insane here. Not sure if they sold yet, but I went to the condo open house on 3rd between 6th and 7th a couple of weeks ago and that's when I realized the market is absolutely insane. a 4th floor walk up, just eh renovation (I think there were new floors), the 2nd "bedroom" was hardly a bedroom in Manhattan standards, listed for $850K. I was pissed at everyone after leaving there -- me, for waiting so long to buy, the brokers for having the balls to list at these numbers and the suckers who buy them and keep this ridiculous market afloat. I like Park Slope and would ideally prefer to stay in the nabe, but as someone who commutes to midtown for work, I'm telling you it is simply not worth this kind of money.
Posted by: ParkSlopeRenter at April 20, 2007 3:42 PM
I like the reno job staying true to the original details. I'd like to see more color, but everyone's different. Can't blame anyone for going neutral.
I agree about the U kitchen. There's just more key storage with them. 172 Sterling got it right with that one.
Posted by: Anonamoose at April 20, 2007 5:20 PM
what's the maint. charges on these?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 20, 2007 11:21 PM
I was in the building when the whole building was for sale at around two mill.
It was on the market for a long time.
I am glad it is tasteful, so many of the renos are a joke. I see things through old eyes, everything is a tacky reno job to me. I've been reading everyone's comments about the real estate market. My question
is this: supply and demand tends to control all markets, and downtown brooklyn,according to the news,permits,etc. will be the recipient of ten thousand new units of quality housing. New construction, views of the water, all amenities including spas and
attended lobbies. My question is liquidity. With so many options why would someone pick your house, your condo over a brand new thought out construction. Don't you think the market
will be slightly over built, top heavy
comes to mind. If you must sell in a hurry, if you need liquidity for whatever reason, seems like you might have to lower the price to compete with
the lofts being built. New Yorkers, I don't understand the taste of out of towners, like airy, light, spaces. I
bought my loft before Dumbo became crowded. Now, we are selling, and there
are many units on the market down here.
We will still realize a great profit,but
... Milton Friedman's face appears to me. May he rest in peace. When the market gets over heated, developers just
rent their units instead of selling. What do individual owners do with such a saturated market.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 22, 2007 6:14 AM
Are you sure you like the renovation?
Have you ever seen a great renovation?
After being a reader of this website for
two weeks, I have come to the conclusion
that most of you don't know what you are talking about. Your frame of reference seems to be tied to yesterday, not even the day before yesterday. The Emperor
wears clothes.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 22, 2007 6:34 AM
6:34 am, no, people have probably seen very few great renovations. I learned something when right after I moved here 4 years ago and went to a party at a $3 million luxury loft condo conversion near Cooper Union, that NYC developers do quickie cheap renos, period. No matter what they are charging for the property or where the property is located. My observation was only confirmed every time I stepped inside a luxury condo conversion in Park Slope when we were looking at those.
So you make the choice. You just deal with the fact developers don't do the best work and accept it and live with it, or you buy a fixer and do the reno yourself. Or better yet, buy from a homeowner who actually lived in the place and did or paid for the renovations him/herself. But yeah, it gets tedious to hear every time a newly renovated condo or house is HOTD, that the renovations are cheap or some corners were cut. We know that! It's a given!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 22, 2007 10:44 AM
Yes, most work is crap. Glad someone else
sees it. In the olden times, we called fake
details that would fall off soon after you purchased, gingerbread. In the old days,
people would laugh at such developers, and
avoid their developments. Our newer residents don't understand about gingerbread.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 22, 2007 12:56 PM
but gingerbread is so delicious.
Posted by: hansel and gretel at April 22, 2007 11:25 PM
this is a little late to the party, but i live around the corner on 6th in an almost identical building with the exact same floor plan, also renovated. i pay 2500 per month. the gap between renting and owning for comparable units is pretty huge when your all in payment for these is more than double what i pay (assuming 20% down). way overpriced...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 6:41 PM
Latest Restaurant Additions
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Chickadee Chick
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Park Cafe
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Bahia
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Wombat
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Organic Heights
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Giardini Pizza
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Rye
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Bati
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