Open House Picks

Nice looking house on Ocean Avenue.
But might it also not be a 'teardown'?..
Very large lot.
Since propshark no longer tells us FAR,et for non-subscribers can't tell for sure.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 12:18 PM

Also, Ocean Avenue is probably zoned for one of the worst public schools in a not very good school district.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 12:24 PM

Plus, what exactly is the large structure immediately next to the Ocean Ave house? Christ, having this behemoth structure sitting right there is a huge bummer. Bound to turn off many prospective buyers.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 12:27 PM

According to P Shark, the building next door is an 85 unit elevator coop.

Ummm....I don't think so.

Next...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 12:31 PM

nobody gets into 321 who doesn't live in the zone. please do not spread false inof

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 12:43 PM

I'd be willing to consider the Ocean Ave house, assumimg, as an earlier poster noted, that there is not in fact a large apartment building right next door.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:00 PM

getting into 321 a long time ago was a horse of a different color

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:01 PM

All you have to do is look it up in Property Shark. Right next door to the Ocean Avenue house is an 85 unit cooperative. You don't have to take my word for it. You can see it in the picture. Do you think that ivy is just growing up an enormous, invisible trellis? Of course not. It's growing up the side of a very large building. And if you don't believe your own eyes, look it up in Property Shark.

Good grief.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:04 PM

Love the Boerum Hill house but way out of my price range. Wish I had bought a place there back during my initial forays into Brooklyn in 1998. The Bed Stuy house looks good for the price, anyone know anything about that place? Has the area improved in the past few years? Is BS the last of the affordable brownstones?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:15 PM

allright, I think the ocean ave house is a great investment. House on prospect park for the price of a bed stuy house. I also agree with Brenda, the area is changing for the better. I sent my kids to summer camp at maple street and its a great location for the price. Subway, walk to school, imagination playground, carosell, botanic garden, and a decent coffee shop. its a steal to be able to wake up and look out your windown at one of the two greatest parks in all of nyc. For under a million, I'd be all over it if I hadn't bought recently. I also have heard those coop buildings on the block are getting better and better.

Btw, the troll is so obvious its by now laughable. He/she needs job.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:19 PM

Agreed. If someone tells me that a property is a dangerous drug den, my first impulse is always to reach for my check book.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 1:43 PM

12:34: "Kids in PLG whose parents have the knowledge and will to set it up generally go to school in Park Slope (PS 321), Boerum Hill (PS 261) or to one of the the mini schools in nearby Ditmas ("Flatbush Academy" and "The Brotherhood" at PS 139 on Argyle)."

When we moved to PLG we assumed we would send our kids to one of those schools. But it has now become impossible to get into them if you are out of district. Our kids now go to private school-and everyone I know with younger kids here does the same. If your kids are already in them, you're okay, but don't plan on sending them there if they aren't already enrolled.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:12 PM

where the heck is Bob Marvin(I know this isn't the manor but u should know anyway)? back to my orig. question....what is the FAR here and what zoning restrictions? This lot is 29' x 150'.... sounds to me land alone is worth the money.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:19 PM

Bed Sty home looks great. Was it priced to incite a bidding war, price looks a bit low

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:40 PM

I wrong about the impossibility of getting into 321 at 12:43 and 1:01 and I'm not a troll. just a person who has tried. I don't know a thing about the area or the house, but I do know that you can't get into these schools anymore if you're not zoned. I'm sure the Olympians were able to do so many years ago, but not now.

As an aside, 321 was terrible many years ago.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:44 PM

Decent elementary schools near both Ditmas Houses...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:46 PM

Wow, the East 23rd St. house is stunning! Someone knew how to photograph a house nicely here. Anyone know the cross streets, and the neighborhood? this is lovely

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:53 PM

I just answered my own question on the E. 23rd St. house. It's on the other side of Ocean, but on a friendly, neighborhood block. From the photos, this is just a gorgeous house!! The size, the price, the condition -- I love it. Anyone see its faults?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:59 PM

We live in PLG's LM. We have great neighbors, everyone is really warm, caring and fun. The world of Flatbush is a bit alien but (hopefully not naively) we don't feel unsafe. Our house is lovely. But it stinks to have so few amenities nearby. We feel like we're living on an island we enjoy, but we have to go to the mainland if we need anything. The schools are bad, but we figured we would prefer private schools for middle and high school anyway, and therefore wanted to buy a less expensive house so we could afford the private schools. The other option is living in the suburbs but talk about being isolated and having to travel to find restaurants and shops. And so there you go, the tortured debates in finding an affordable house in Brooklyn!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 3:29 PM

26 midwood is narrower than 42, lower and less deep lot as well if i recall correctly. hi bob - that was me in post #2. still on the fence re plg, but nice to see that 68 midwood got big money. that house is amazing, inside and out.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 4:37 PM

can someone post the formula for FAR to sq ft for a newbie...thanks

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 5:08 PM

Apparently the people who originally built the house had a fascination with brick walls, and had windows put in this side of their house specifically so that they would have an extreme close up view of the brick wall of an 85 unit elevator coop. So, indeed, CHP was not overreacting in the least. In fact, it was quite gracious of her not to find fault with those windows that face parks, trees and distant horizons.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 5:39 PM

The difference between Corcoran and other smaller agency is that Corcoran makes you sign an exclusive at a much Higher % then other agency, and most times they end up-co-broking with the smaller agency like Mary Kay, because she has the customers looking to buy in the area and Corcoran does not!!!

I happen to know that Mary Kay does co-broke. I was bidding on the Stratford Road house that Mary Kay has in PPS, that is currently "in Contract", and I lost out on it and I was told by Mary Kay that this deal is a co-broke..

So I guess 1:46 was wrong.

Just a little side note on most deals whether it's Corcoran, or any other agency when the deal is “in contract” or once it closes, we generally have no idea if it was a co-broke or not!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 11:35 PM

whooah ... blogging on overdrive. i'm exhausted.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 11:54 PM

The problem is that the young, hip crowd in question is made up mostly of young, hip drug dealers. That's not going to help anyone.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 9:13 AM

This whole lot used to be a gorgeous garden - I used to walk past it every day when I first moved to the neighborhood because it was so pretty. I'm glad some of it will salvaged for the back of the new building. I was heartbroken when they started construction.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 9:13 AM

The lovely garden a previous poster wrote of is long gone -- the buiding is already half finished. The garden had been beautiful -- old trees and lovely plantings. It was replaced at the rear by a weird Japanese-y waterfall/stone terrace kind of set up. The building itself is now under construction, though it's hard to tell what it's going to look like (seems like it might have balconies on the front, perhaps?). It is at least consistent in terms of height with the buildings next door, with windows of consistent size, etc. This block is very stylistically mixed architecturally, unlike South Oxford and South Portland, a block or two over -- there are brick row houses and brownstones and a handful of frame buildings and a couple of large apartment houses, too. Some of it is gentrified but there are still a few houses that seem to be split into small apartments, covered with weird siding, etc. There's also a condo development going on in what used to be a church and its adjacent house on the block. It's a landmarked block but that hasn't prevented at least one modern monstrosity, a two-storey, bright red brick so-called "carriage house" that went up about three years ago, a big part of the facade of which is taken up by a garage entrance. Don't know how that one got approved.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 9:15 AM

Ummm, what does Brooklyn Propertes now about marketing or consulting for that matter. Just look at the stuff they have on the market now. It's not appealling and it's not selling! You have to know the market and be knowledgable of trends to be considered a developers consultant. To call themselves marketers??? There banners are logos are laughable, and they steel marketing material (they basically ripped off the liberty brochure from A&H for their project on St.Marks) Why would they take a project that's overpriced (the florentine) that Corcoran couldn't sell? Because they need some crap to fill up there corny web-site.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 2:10 PM

I love the wall colors in the Ditmas house on E. 23rd. Not the orange sherbert color so much, but LOVE the green, and the brown, especially with the white trim and moldings. Those kinds of moldings set off unique paint colors so nicely. And breaks up the color on the wall so you can choose an intense color and it's not overwhelming.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 2:40 PM

According to Property Shark, this house was last sold in 2001. The fire may have occurred prior to this. Don't be so paranoid.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 2:51 PM

Some people like open kitchens. I live in a townhouse condo, and that was actually one of my requirements when I was apartment hunting -- that the kitchen be open to the living/dining area. It's better for casual entertaining so you're not shut off from your guests in a separate room. Also, it means you can have a galley-size kitchen without feeling claustrophobic, which would be the case if there were a wall or even a pass-through. (Thankfully, my kitchen is significantly nicer than this one!)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 2:57 PM

All this nonsense about a fire provokes me to finally to enter this discussion as one who owns one of the Ocean Avenue limestones. My family and I have been on this block for nearly 20 years, knew the owners of 185 Ocean before the present ones and are very good friends with the present owners. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a fire in any of the 13 private homes on this strip in the entire time I've lived here. I can't imagine what makes Anon 2:13 "pretty sure the Ocean Avenue place was damaged by fire. . . " Sigh.

At any rate, for those who want to know from someone who actually lives here and whose home is NOT on the market, here's my take: This is a great block! With Prospect Park as our front yard, beautiful residences, "small town" type relations between residents, and situated between 2 major train stops, it has always been an absolutely wonderful place to call home. The homes here, especially the limestones, tend to be larger than most in PLG/LM. Because they are not subject to the LM's restrictive covenant, can be tapped for rental income. As Bob M. has noted, turnovers on this strip are quite rare.

On the negative, well, there's no doubt that I wish the MTA did not run along the rear perimeter of my property. Still, it's amazing how much we have learned to incorporate the fact of the subway into our lives. I can honestly say that I rarely notice the sound of the train coming and going. It's just a fact of living here. Also, Ocean Ave most certainly IS a major street. Therefore, if you have a big problem with traffic, this is NOT the street for you. At the very least, parking will be an issue. (But won't be for whomever buys 185 as it has it's own 2-car garage). As for the rest of us with cars, we either park them at a major indoor garage around the corner on Flatbush or across the street in the Park's lot.

In nearly 2 decades of living here, neither I nor anyone in my family has ever been the victim of a street crime here. We have been the object of several burglary attempts over this span of years. But, that's why we have ADT. Bottom line is that no attempt to break in has ever been successful and, in recent years, there have not even been any attempts to break-in.

Meanwhile, things are changing very rapidly for the better all over PLG, but especially on Ocean Avenue. The apartment buildings on the two blocks bordering the park between Parkside and Lincoln used to be filled with large, luxury apartments. Then, beginning in the 70's, the block went through a serious decline. In the new millenium, these buildings are coming back. Yes, there is a hip, new, diverse crowd of singles, couples and families that are moving into these big buildings. Several of these large buildings are turning coop and condo. We have a very strong association of both private homeowners and a larger, block association that includes both private homeowners and apartment building dwellers. Add to this, the coming of the new Lakeside Center. I could go on, but I think you get the picture that, having once been down, this is a nabe and block that is very much on the upswing.

In the end, you certainly need not take my word for it. Just check out PLG for yourself and confirm my account by walking our streets and actually talking with the people who live here and who do business in this community. At that point, you will have a heck of alot more basis to form an opinion than that offered by some lunatic troll.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 3:45 PM

I think the peach color is an effort to be neutral but not bland. they probably assume people will change the paint anyway and choose not to paint it any other color as it may distract from the other characteristics of the house if the color is too bold and white is just so institutional.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 4:09 PM

Didn't we go over this? The owners of the frame house own the property and are doing the developing. They've been there since (at least) '85. There might be some bad blood between them and other "old-timers" (i.e., the one who accosted you) who may resent the property being developed. Also, keep in mind that the block is landmarked, so they've probably jumped through a TON of hoops to get this done and spent a lot of time on the process. Maybe related is an odd (to me, at least) little thing on their Pshark listing showing an easement put on the property in 2004 with the National Architectural Trust. I'm guessing that might be related to getting this development done in a landmark district? Anyone know more than I? (That wouldn't be too hard.)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 4:39 PM

Funny you should say that. There's a Chinese restaurant pictured there, in front of which I once saw a middle aged man shot in the back.

It's safe looking all right...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 6:00 PM

As I said, if you're a house slut, than 2.3 for the Washington ave place is not so bad. While the 6th Ave place isn't covet-worthy, the location is. And prime CH isn't worth 2.3 in my book. I'm one of those people who will compromise on the house rather than the area. Obviously, there are those who care more about the house than the location. But Brownstoner, for 2.7 you can get a really nice place in Prime Slope so I fail to see how even a total house slut would pay that for Washington Ave.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 3, 2007 9:06 PM

Save yourself the trouble. The Ocean Avenue place is a total waste of time.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:27 PM

Yes, I agree that the Dwell homes (and those they feature in the magazine) all look essentially the same, with minor variations. For the money, they are good houses--and a little personal style would make them great.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:29 PM

As long as zoning changes and landmarking initiatives protect the Victorian houses, I am all for luxury condos along CIA. That's exactly what needs to dovetail with the existing Victorian homes in order to bring in the (moneyed) population density needed to transform shopping districts such as Cortelyou Road. Coney Island Avenue is an eye-sore already. If the coops are even remotely tasteful (the one that's just been finished doesn't appear to have any Fedders units) then this could be a real boon for the area south of the Park.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:32 PM

I have a child at 39, and while it definitely does not have the stellar reputation of 321, it's a good school nonetheless. Perhaps you have used 39 and disagree--a lot of people don't like the cramped facilities and the principal is less than inspiring--but it also has a lot of good teachers through the grades and often gets dismissed a lot on the basis of second and thirdhand playground chatter. I can't tell you how many people who have never sent a child there or even visited it have told me what a bad school it is. (Not saying that's what you're doing, obvs, since i don't know you, but it definitely happens.)

For that matter PS 10 and PS 282 in Park Slope are pretty good schools that are often overshadowed by 321. 321 also has a self-selecting population mainly of kids from high-income, privileged families, which--life being unfair--means that it inevitably is going to score off the charts on tests, etc. Not to knock it, but part of its success comes from quality, and part from demographics, which give it a student body of kids who are probably going to do well wherever they go.

All that said, I do agree that the house would be worth more if it were in the 321 zone--reputation is what drives prices.

No experience with the Clinton Hill schools so I can't speak for them, but good for them if they're doing well.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:33 PM

Park Slope a long commute to downtown? It's certainly not a long commute on the subway. You must be riding a tricycle or something....it's only a hop, skip and jump on the F train.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:40 PM

Your points are reasonable, Senor B, but your sentiments are relatively uncommon. Maybe you can't take Park Slope, the UWS or UES, but a whole lot of people can. Most people, I'm sure. So, have no doubt that many CH buyers are simply PS runoff. Not that there's any shame in that. Every nabe around PS gets its runoff. So what? Big deal.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 12:50 PM

Anyone buying a house over 50 years old... which is almost every dwelling in Brooklyn - just assume that it has lead paint. Lots of it. And not just on the trim... Lead was a common ingredient in plaster 100 years ago as well. Do not sand your painted trim or plaster walls if you have young children living in your home. Bit the bullet and pay for an abatement contracter. Some things are easier and cheaper to fix than others. Keeping your home clean is critical. Buy some Lead Dizolve or Liquid Detergent and mix it in with your mop bucket.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 2:19 PM

Question for you wise Brownstoners: I see a vacant lot across from a property I was looking at. How can I find out what is planned for the location? The address is 59 Douglass Street in Brooklyn. Your advise is greatly appreciated.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 4:32 PM

re:59 Douglass question. Can always look up on nyc.gov dept of bldgs..for permits.
59 Douglass (which is whole corner lot with Smith) has application for 4 story building...commercial ground level and apts above.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 5:30 PM

Thanks for the help Anon at 5:30. Appreciated.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 5:36 PM

did anyone actually go to the ocean ave open house? i'm actually curious as to what it was like.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 10:20 PM

I agree with the earlier posts criticizing the PS 321 hype in the slope. I'm not sure why but somehow it was deleted by Brownstoner along with other related comments. In any event, I echo the sentiment that there should be no 321 premium in Park Slope for primary school when the area is also zoned for crappy mid and secondary schools, e.g., John Jay High School is horrible. Many families move into Park Slope with children beyond primary school age or just about to enter mid and secondary school. What are their choices? If there's a PS 321 premium in Park Slope, shouldn't there be a John Jay discount too? I think it's a legitimate question. If you look at public education in Brooklyn from K to 12th grade, Midwood is far superior to Park Slope in almost every respect. It's not even a photo finish. Yes, if you're zoned for 321, by all means send your children there. However, just be prepared to feed them to the lions after the 6th grade.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 5:49 AM

Do people agree that the food is good? I went for dinner once when the place was new, and the food was so bad that I never went back. It was just pizza, but it was the worst pizza I'd ever had outside of a school cafeteria. If they've improved, I'd give it another try.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 9:47 AM

I saw the Ocean Ave house. The place was jammed packed with people, so it was a bit crazy and hard to take a good look. But over all it's a nice house in good shape. The exterior needs some work and needs to be re pointed. The owners unit is nice with a open living room and dining room, the floors need to be refinished. Ikea kitchen. The 2 bathrooms are ok, one certainly could live with them. The third floor ceilings had some old water damage.
I did not stick around to see the rental unit. We could not see the basement. Huge yard and it does back the subway but since the lot is 150 ft' it is not bad at all, I did not even hear it or notice it till I went out on the back deck.
Over all it's a nice house that needs work, but from what I could see nothing too major...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 11:09 AM

I adore brick, lime and brown but the truth of the matter is while each exemplify a different kind of beauty, the price factor will be determined by the following: condition, style, location, etc. So 4:59pm, to say the limes on Ocean will be a LOT pricier than 185 could be easily challenged. But one can understand certainly that biased opinion can sometimes influence one's thinking.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 1:04 PM

My pet peeves are cars with booming stereos blasting at all hours (windows down in winter so the music can be shared)+ dog owners who don't pooper scoop + litterers (amzing to see people drop trash with a garbage can 10-15 feet away) + people who walk around talking into their cellphone headsets so they we can hear their really interesting conversations. It's not kids doing this, so there is plenty of rudeness to go around.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 1:48 PM