Co-op of the Day: 111 Hicks Street

Weird layout -- not a real two bedrooom,

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 11:58 AM

This is the St. George Tower -- used to live there (as renter) years ago. It's famous for having a very high maintenance. On the one hand, it is truly a full-service building -- 24 hr doormen, supers, porters, the works, and they were great, at least years ago. But it also originally had some really bad mortgage, I believe, and then spent some money on a fight against some neighboring buildings air conditioners which was expensive (again, I can't remember all the details). So the maintenance is very high, although perhaps not as high by Manhattan standards.

Finally, I suspect this apartment faces the interior courtyard, which has rather poor views of the back of this building and others, so isn't as desirable. This views in the photos are from the shared roof deck - the New Year's fireworks from there are truly spectacular.

Still, I really did like that building.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 11:59 AM

i think this place has been for sale for a while. i actually like the way it looks (the carved out rooms) but that maintenance is a total deal-breaker. also, I think "ballroom floor" means 1st floor. if i'm not mistaken, you can see cars in the pic outside those living room windows. i'd hate to live on a busy street, street-level, with passers-by peering in all the time.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 12:09 PM

From Anon 11:59am above:

If you can see cars outside, then it isn't an interior apt. which is actually much better. The ballroom floor isn't street level where people can peer in -- it's up at least one high floor (if you'd see the building, you'd know there aren't apartments that people can see from the street). Being at that level isn't too bad on those streets -- it's full of brownstones and everyone lives at that level. So I don't think that's really such a negative.

Still, one of the nicest things about that building is to get an apartment with a great view, and this isn't one. But if it's not interior, it's not too bad, except for high maintenance.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 12:13 PM

Thanks zeebee, that link was helpful. Now I remember that there is a very high interest rate on the underlying mortgage, which they couldn't refinance because of huge pre-payment penalties. Sounds like they are going to have to re-finance again next year, and I wonder if maintenance will increase even higher, or if a lower interest rate will help reduce it.

By the way, those of you who think the real estate bubble will never bust -- I had friends who bought a very nice 1-bedroom with a great view in this building in 1988 or so. A few years later they had to move due to a job transfer and sublet the apt. This building had very strict sublet policies and after 2 years, they could no longer do so. But at that point, they could not sell the apt since it was now worth less than they owed on the mortgage and they didn't want to take the loss.

Since they lived out of town, they had to keep paying mortgage and maintenance each month for years, and eventually sold in late '90s when prices finally rose. Of course, had they held on even longer, they could have made lots of money, but at that point they were just glad to get rid of it. So the bubble is fine, as long as you can keep living in your home. If some unknown situation forces you to have to move away, it can be a big problem. That's when banks started to foreclose on apartments in co ops like this, when people just walked away from apartments.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 12:59 PM

how is that kitchen "rundown"?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 1:25 PM

here are yet more obvious reasons why co-ops are undesirable and devoid of versatility.

(underlying mortgage still too high because of bad decisions by board, no subletting allowed beyond two years.)

condo maintenance would be much lower and obviously more stable; owners could be transferred by job and rent out the NYC apartment as long as they wanted until RE market was once again strong.

the maintenance fee is the huge factor here in the seemingly low asking price. co-ops just seem so "yesteryear."

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 2:12 PM

If you plan on moving quickly, subletting your place, or financing 90% with an interest-only 5 yr ARM, then a condo is for you. Ditto if you enjoy living amonst renters, etc.

If not, a co-op might be a good bet.

Of course, in either scenario, you need to look carefully into the financials.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 2:33 PM

There is a very valid reason for coops to limit subletting in additon to quality of life issues (and there ar emany): The cost of financing. Underlying mortgage rates are higher and lenders less plentiful for coops with more than 10% non-resident owners. In adddition, purchasers pay higher interest rates for coop loans for units in these buidlings.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 3:08 PM

The floor plan would work great for me. That second bedroom is odd, but that's where I would put my desk and gym (my 'working and working-out room'), accessible from both the master bedroom and the living room. I imagine a nursery would work well in this arrangement as well.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 3:25 PM

Serge, what does 'middle class' even mean here? the median income in NYC is $38K. who in that range could even afford the maintenance, let alone the mortgage? i get your point about the house prices lately, but let's not kid ourselves about who these apartments are targeting.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 28, 2007 7:50 AM