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February 5, 2007

House of the Day: 351 Adelphi Street

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Whether it's the bonuses or the fact that buyers are tired of waiting for the long-predicted bursting of the bubble, it feels to us like there's been a perceptible uptick in market sentiment in the last few weeks. We don't have any hard facts to back that up, but certainly the strong interest in 100 Decatur Street showed that there a ton of buyers out there. The owners of 351 Adelphi Street apparently have figured this out and decided to raise the asking price of their Fort Greene brick house 10 percent. Back when we had it listed as an Open House Pick in October it was at $1,900,000. Now it's $2,100,000. It's a great looking house. We shall see.
351 Adelphi Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
Open House Picks 10/13/06 [Brownstoner]

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As Mr. B. says, this house has been on the market for a while. I think the price rise, however, is not due to market optimism but is rather a little trick that Corcoran seems to like to do. If something isn't selling, rather than lower the price, they raise it. This way, if it sells for 1.9 to 1.95 mil, the buyer thinks they have struck a hard-fought bargain and feels better about their purchase. It's clever if it works but I noticed it did work for a house they were selling on 9th St. this summer-fall.

Posted by: west at February 5, 2007 12:10 PM

PRices get adjusted based on demand. If there isn't that much product out there, oftentimes the price gets increased regardless of how much interest there was with that specific property.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 12:18 PM

Actually, the inventory tends to come on the market in the spring, well after the wall st bonuses get distributed.

My feeling is that the uptick is the first flush of wall st bonuseers having money to burn right now with little inventory; by fall, the extra condo product will bring the market back into equilibrium.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 12:21 PM

Only in the economics of real estate does that make sense. There's no demand for a specific property but since there's no supply of OTHER product, raise the price.

Posted by: west at February 5, 2007 12:22 PM

My understanding is that this one is driven by the owner, who is one of those folks who buy up brownstones for the purpose of overdoing the kitchen/bathrooms in their own style then ask buyers to pay for it. The owner already orally accepted an offer at or around the asking price but is refusing to sign, hoping for more money. Bad faith if you ask me.

Posted by: eb at February 5, 2007 12:26 PM

Whoa, Mr. B: It's a great-looking house--in the pictures. In person, it's not as great. This place has been on the market for at least 4 or 5 months, was featured in the Times real-estate section with multiple color photos, generating HUGE traffic at that day's open house (myself included), and *still* hasn't sold for $1.9. And now they *increase* the price by 200K? What-evah. Here are my problems with the place: It's attractive, but it's tiny--18 feet wide. Biggest flaw is weird little kitchen (6-by-18 feet, with lotsa doors and windows) shoehorned into addition in back; cool that there's a Wolf range and subway tile, but those stainless cabinets are el-cheapo-rama, and the fridge being on the opposite end from the range makes for awkward cooking. Nice block, though. Good luck...

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 12:26 PM

And another thing: As noted by previous poster, renovation does, indeed, include expensive-as-heck bathrooms (Waterworks faucets, fancy marble tile). Tasteful, but I'm the kinda buyer who would rather makes those choices myself. I seem to recall tumbled marble mosaics, which I no likey.

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 12:49 PM

Anon 12:26 -- the ad says the house is 21 x 45 which is fairly large by my standards. Are you sure you saw the same house?

PS -- we are beginning a renovation process and I'm wondering what people think of this triplex layout? There's a full bathroom on each bedroom floor, but no separate "master bath". But a master bath would mean you'd have to have 2 bathrooms on one floor -- is that simply a waste? Or do people generally like it?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 12:49 PM

Also, floors are slopey upstairs. But you're right--it's 20 feet wide, not 18.

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 12:52 PM

Anonymous at 12:49:

I'd say that it's a waste (and testimony to either the vanity of our age or the excretory consequenses of our lousy eating habits).

John Ife

Posted by: John Ife at February 5, 2007 12:57 PM

hogs get slaughtered. the person selling this house is a hog. waterworks is fine but after a while boring! take a good look at the structural issues in this house. while a "beautiful" bathroom is nice, if the floor caves in, what difference will it make?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 12:59 PM

i've seen the kitchen too. i hated it. cheapo and didn't seem to go with anything else in the house. and the bathrooms, though nice, will not age well at all...

Posted by: iologica at February 5, 2007 1:01 PM

Our brownstone has really "slopey" floors also -- they slope more the higher the floor. When we bought it years ago, we asked the inspection guy about it (and he's one of the ones who is highly recommended here). He told us the house was structurally very sound, although we should rebuild the stairs to prevent further sloping.

But that being said, has anyone found a way to repair the sloping? Or do your floors not slope as much? Or is that just one of the things you live with when you live in an old house? It's very annoying and I'd love to do work to have straight floors, but haven't really heard of a way of repairing them that works well.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 1:08 PM

Floors and ceilings slope when old houses settle. Chances are they sloped 100 years ago and haven't moved much since. Personally I love it. If you don't you can raise the ceiling and insert steel beams, but that is a tremendous amount of work (and money). Or you can lay a new (and flat) subfloor and flooring over the existing one. That's relatively cheap.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 1:31 PM

Thanks Anon 1:31. One poster above complained the Adelphi St. house was slopey, as if most houses were not, so I was wondering about other people's experiences. We'll probably just live with the slope as is.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 1:38 PM

I have slopey floors in my house too. I think the best thing to do is learn to think of it as a charming feature of an old house. It adds some character. :)

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 1:48 PM

Dear West,

Brokers do not alter prices. Their client does (the seller). Try not to go online talking through obvious openings in your body other than your mouth.

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 3:05 PM

Well since I already purchased my home. I hope this bad boy goes for 2 million. Better for brooklyn!

If it's a lil too pricey, you should UMMMMMMMMM pick up your jaw and keep it moving to the next house.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 3:54 PM

I'm with West. Brokers are, in my experience, way pushier than their clients. Or maybe they are just that way with me.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 3:57 PM

Word on the street is buyers signed the contract last week, sellers wanted one more open house before signing. Classy.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 4:01 PM

eb at 12.26 may be on to something. We had an oral offer accepted on this house back in January. The day of the inspection (and the day before the contract was to be signed), our broker calls us up to tell us that the sellers were backing out because they had been directly contacted by a buyer who had viewed the house with another broker (i.e., cutting out the brokers). I was less shocked by the breaking of the oral agreement (nothing was yet in writing, after all) than by the going behind the brokers' backs.

The house needed a lot of work (some structural, a lot cosmetic) and could have been nice, but this reno job is very peculiar -- also, it would have been much smarter to triplex it and have a large garden rental.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 4:04 PM

It's not unusual to see a property listed by various real estate agencies (and even by the seller directly), and each at a different price.

This may simply be a case where the property was bid on by a buyer that was not introduced by Corcoran. Therefore, Corcoran is now in a position in which the only way to make their commission from this property is to out-bid the current offer and increase the listing price on their web site.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 4:11 PM

My husband and I went to see this house at its original open house showing. Agreed with previous posters that the kitchen is silly. Its tiny size is perfect for take-out only diners. Also, the floors upstairs weren't just "slopey", they were rotted through in places. We later found out that the woman who owns this house had done the same kind of renovation to a house we looked at years ago on Vanderbilt. Apparently she either works or used to work at Waterworks and gets a great discount. Whether this house is worth $2M or not, well, that's for the buyer to decide. But, being a Fort Greener, I hope she gets it - it's good for all of us.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 4:31 PM

Yeah, I hope she gets the money too, but there is definately a skill in selling a house and I am not talking about relying on a broker. It is really important to not be too out there with open houses, and jerking around buyers and ratcheting up prices when you are a actually a stale property. I think that the skill is to really know what it is that you are trying to do from a personal financial perspective, to get your place into good structural shape, make it pretty, do your research on what is going on with the market with comps in your neighborhood and elsewhere, follow all market info, , and then go for it, price it not at your dream price but at the current market price. Hit the bid, and don't mess around, otherwise you become STALE and this property is looking a little stale. Do your research before going to market - I think it is a really bad idea to feel your way publicly through the process which is what is happening here. Don't they think we are watching?

Posted by: donatella at February 5, 2007 5:15 PM

We saw this in the fall, too -- were there halfway through an afternoon open house and were the only people on the list until a sorta famous tv/movie actress (who's newly pregnant according to the gossip rags) and her partner arrived. It's definitely wider than 18ft -- tho while the Corc listing says 21ft, the back garden only seems to be listed as 20ft wide on the floorplan, so who knows? Kitchen is beyond silly and the upper floors are, as others have said, very slanty and the planks looking pretty raggedy in places. Waterworks bathrooms were nice enough but quite particular in their taste and, as 12:49 said, that might be something a new buyer might want to do for him/herself. One nice feature is that because Adelphi is a wide street, you get very nice light in the front of the house, esp the parlor and the second floor master suite/family room space. Obv more power to the seller if they can get it, but 1.9m seemed a bit of stretch six months ago and warming market or no, I'd be surprised to see this get above 2m.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 5:21 PM

just polishing a turc- albeit a good locatioin

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 5:45 PM

whoops I should always proof read- meant polishing a turd, and good location

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 5:46 PM

Thank you, Anon 4:31---THAT explains it. Nobody puts fricking Waterworks faucets, sinks, and tiles into a house they're going to sell--not even a $2.1 million stoner in Ft. Greene--unless they have some kind of delicious discount with Waterworks. That stuff costs fairly serious coin. Meanwhile, I guess I mis-spoke--it remains to be seen if this IS a $2.1 million house. I don't mean to be meanspirited, here, and I wish all my neighbors success and prosperity--but I've been seeing this place on the market for ages, now (and I'm sick of the zebra rug in the living room). Do people agree that raising the price is an interesting strategy of Corcoran's, or is it kinda nutty? I guess at least it projects some kind of confidence in the product. No?

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 5:47 PM

Three things that make me burn rubber backwards:

1. Possible structural problems (rotting floors?) that have been veneered over with lavish finishes.

2. Holding an open house if in fact there is already a signed contract. (someone above sez this may be the case, but in the seller's defense, who knows?

3. Raising the ask after spending many months on the market.

Bad karma, baby. Bad karma...

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 6:12 PM

I called the brokers three times before they raised the price last week. No return call. My broker then followed up, the brokers told him in writing (I have the email) the buyers were signing the contract that day. When it popped back up as an open house for $200K more, my broker followed up. I have a follow up email from the brokers saying the deal is fine, sellers want one more open house. So either the seller is jerking people around, or the brokers simply are not being forthright.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 6:19 PM

No one mentioned yet that this place was originally priced at $2.1 (or more?) when it went on the market, then reduced within a week or two to 1.9. I remember noting the reduction on this site when it happened. Seems the seller has returned to her/his original number.
When I saw it (late summer, fall??) the parlor floor was finished but upper floors were still a construction zone. Kitchen had nice appliances, cheap cabinets, bad layout. Waterworks bathrooms on upper floors were pretty, but not finished at the time. Broker told us the owner had bought another house to live in and was finishing this one up to sell. We figured owner must be getting major discounts a waterworks.
Nice block.

Posted by: fortgreener at February 5, 2007 6:23 PM

Is the Waterworks woman the same one selling the house on Waverly?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 6:23 PM

everyone keeps saying don't put in waterworks fixtures, but what kind of fixtures would you put in? i know bathrooms and kitchens are very personal, but you can't get top dollar if you don't include them!!! you have to at least run the rough ends, then the buyers are stuck with putting the fixtures in those palces. so of course you have to finish the bathrooms. but just like any other house, or co-op or condo some people will like your choices, others will not.

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 7:02 PM

7:02. It's an interesting dilemma. Very high end condos will actually sell without the finishes, and will let you finish how you want -- sometimes within the selling price, sometimes at your own cost.

I think in this price range, it's hard to sell something unfinished -- most people don't have money for a decorator or time to DIY. They're professionals with kids (or kids on the way).

The problem with Waterworks is that it's so specific. It seems fairly neutral, but like all overpriced, trendy junk (REstoration Hardware, William Sonoma), it's ultimately tacky and uncomfortable to live in unless YOU chose it personally.

If I were a flipper (god forbid, but hey, to each his own), I would never install something that screams a style or label. Choose nice quality, neutral, low key, but I repeat, NICE QUALITY stuff. Limestone or nice ceramic floors. Duravit or refurbished cast-iron sink. Grohe fixtures (because, regardless of taste, they work like a miracle). Now you have a nice, functional, pleasant, high quality bathroom that doesn't scream anything.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 7:18 PM

Not waterworks tile throughout. She buys generic stone directly from distributors. She has nice taste, but it's not as expensive as you think it is. But then again you would have to pay in blood, sweat and tears if you wanted to shop around for all this stuff yourself so if you love the house you should buy it. And the original set of buyers should probably have gotten over their hurt pride, anger, or whatever to cough up the extra money if they love the house and can afford it. It's not a popularity contest with this seller obviously, or with this agent who is doing her bidding, which is what agents are legally forced to do. Sorry to sound really cruel, but it's the new reality with this listing. My guess is that the seller is realizing the prices people are getting in the neighborhood and she thinks she can get more money. If you love the place try to depersonalize it and just buy it. And if you don't just move on. The more personal you make it the more you are wasting your time.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 5, 2007 9:06 PM

Anon 9:06, you're a nice person to say such things on behalf of the owner of this house, who is obviously your friend (or perhaps you are the owner?) But arguing that the fault here lies with the people honestly trying to buy this place is ridiculous. It's been sitting on the market for MONTHS, despite some amazing breaks like being listed in the New York Times real estate section, pictures and everything. Somebody makes a good faith offer, and the seller starts dicking them around with price hikes and additional open houses? Screw the seller. Sorry. That is bullshit. One more thing: I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure the rental unit in the garden level of this house featured a kitchen with NO SINK. Am I remembering wrongly? I hope so. Anybody else remember? Ya know, it's hard to do a quality job renovating old houses, and my heart goes out to people who don't know how to do it. But I'm still not buying stupid property for inflated prices. A kitchen without a sink would qualify as stupid. Super stupid.

Posted by: anon at February 5, 2007 11:15 PM

fyi the house has more than pretty waterworks baths: there are new plumbing stacks,facade was cleaned and repointed,the exterior entry way was improved back to era appropriate bannisters and newell posts,new electrical,also new 20ft deck in ipe and bluestone patio, a resodded garden, a new roof on main roof and extention roof

Posted by: anon at February 6, 2007 12:15 AM

THIS HOUSE ISNT WORTH 2.1 OR 1.9...
LOCATION IS KINDA AVG FOR FT GREENE.
BUT GOOD LUCK TO YA (WHOEVER BUYS IT)

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 8:08 AM

Dear 12:15 am (the owner I presume) and all other brownstone flippers out there...

Hey - That's great.

So, in addition to that, were ALL of the plumbing stacks replaced? were ALL of the waste line connectors to those stacks replaced? were all of the plumbing supply lines replaced with new copper piping? was all of the electrical upraded throughout the entire house, including the service panel if it needed to be? Did you replace ALL of the old wiring throughout the house and ensure that everything is grounded correctly and that there is safe and adequate power throughout the house?

Can you also ensure that there are no structural integrity issues anywhere that will need to be addressed? There seem to be lots of comments about sloping and rotting floors.

these are the things that should be done when a house is restored, so that come this spring, when the new owner is sipping mint juleps on their ipe deck, their kid doesn't run outside screaming that there is toilet water gushing through the ceiling because you didn't take care of the important stuff that should ALWAYS be done when renovating and making a profit from doing so, even if said improvements can't be seen.

If you are going to flip, please do it the right way. And please disclose exactly what has been done so that the new owner knows what other items need future attention.

If you are going to ask 2.1 mil for a place like this, don't you think the buyer deserves a place with trustworthy mechanicals and a sound structure?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 8:14 AM

According to city records, looks like this house was sold in June of '06 for $1.4M.

I'm actively looking to buy a house in Brooklyn and have walked through 30+ homes in addition to doing lots of research and analysis.

I don't get how this place is worth any more than $1.6M on a good day. Good luck to the seller.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 9:14 AM

8:14 am -- I commend your high standards, I do. But this is reality. I am doing that kind of upgrade to my house, AND SOME, only because I will be living in it. What you're asking for is something that no flipper will give you. That's why so many people are willing to buy condos and/or horrible new-construction crap -- peace of mind (they think) because it's new. If you're buying an old house, YOU HAVE TO ASSUME IT NEEDS NEW EVERYTHING. This whole "flipping" thing is a charade.

So all you buyers out there: get a wreck with character for cheap, invest 500 Gs, and be secure that you've got brand-new everything, to your taste and standards.

OR buy a new house.

But don't get scammed by the flip. It's borderline immoral.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 9:26 AM

I'm anon 9:06pm. And I am not a friend of the owner at all. Just stating the obvious because real estate doesn't work me up in to a lather like it does some of the people on this board.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 11:53 AM

"I hope she gets it - it's good for all of us."

I think its terrible - all the affordable options are out the window. Our neighborhood is becoming another white-bread paradise. Soon we'll have starbucks and it will look like everywhere else.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 7:01 AM

Well 7:04 if Starbucks arrives you'll have no choice but to wake up and smell the coffee.

Time moves on while you're sleeping.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 12:00 PM

« Forte Condos Get Glass -- and Firetrucks Monday On The Record »

February 5, 2007

House of the Day: 351 Adelphi Street

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