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February 6, 2007
420 42nd Street and the Rule of Law
The fight over the 12-story tower that developer Kenneth Wong is trying to build at 420 42nd Street in Sunset Park just escalated. Big time. At the urging of local residents, the Concerned Citizens of Greenwood Heights and Community Board 7, the DOB took a closer look at the self-certified plans stamped by architect James L. Robinson and issued a Stop Work Order (a 10-day letter of intent to revoke) after finding a reported 37 violations, including (a) failure to submit a full and accurate set of architectural plans, (b) failure to properly calculate the floor area ratio and building height for a 12-story building, and (c) failure to include a rear yard on site.
There's been a lot of talk in the past few months by politicians about stepping up the enforcement and penalties on developers and architects who pull this kind of crap; this would be an excellent time for the DOB to show that it's serious. If the Stop Work Order results only in a few minor fines and a few days' delay, it will fail to provide any disincentive to other developers who thumb their noses at building regulations. When someone is caught doing this kind of thing on this scale, the penalty should be financially crippling and career-ending, as it should be for those who commit equally serious safety infractions.
420 42nd Street: This One Could Get Ugly [Brownstoner] GMAP P*Shark DOB
420 42nd Photo Gallery [CCGH]
Goodbye Sunset Park Views [YouTube]
420 42nd Street
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Comments
Just like Mr. Gutless, these guys and the rest of the Millionaires
Murderer's need to be treated like the criminals that they are.
Just think - If the law were to be enforced against these Criminals as equally (Confiscate any proceeds from Illegal activity, Heavy Fines, etc.)as it is against the less affluent; We could actually balance the budget and provide for all the truly needy in this City, State and Country.
Posted by: QuesionsMan at February 6, 2007 9:26 AM
Sunset Park is all grown up now! Welcome to development row! Show us more construction projects in the area brownstoner. I like to go to sleep with a big smile. :)
Posted by: Sunset Park Guy at February 6, 2007 9:26 AM
Oh goody! Can't wait to move into this new building. Out with the old, down with the new. How much are the units. I think I have enough money for a one bedroom. I will have the best views.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 9:29 AM
If this project goes forward, I think it's fair to say that one can ultimately point the finger of blame at his most honorable Mayor Michael Bloomberg for allowing the DOB to operate as a rogue, corrupt city government agency.
Can anyone claim that there is NOT widespread corruption within the DOB itself, along with a healthy dose of widespread incompetence? Is it not time for a MAJOR shakeout? We all know by now that bribes are being offered, and bribes are being taken. It was a field day for the contractors and the DOB employees back in the day when nobody cared. But now people care, because moneyed, educated people who also happen to be taxpayers have purchased properties in these affected neighborhoods, and they are tired of taking it up the A#$ and being forced to tolerate this nonsense.
ANY AND EVERY EMPLOYEE AT THE DOB THAT APPROVES BOGUS PROJECTS AND/OR WRONGFULLY LIFTS STOP WORK ORDERS SHOULD BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY AND NEW PEOPLE BROUGHT IN IF THE SITUATION DOESN'T CHANGE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
Period.
9:26 and 9:29, by the way, are the same poster - It's so obvious. probably a contractor who likes the bribing system.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 9:50 AM
as an attorney who can be disbarred (or sued for malpractice) for similar behavior, I'm disgusted by these stories. And I guess a little jealous.
Posted by: anon at February 6, 2007 9:54 AM
Wow, it just gets crazier and crazier around here. Now the NIMBYs are calling all developers criminals because of missing or rejected paperwork. Poster #1 ups the ante and claims developers are all murderers! Maybe I should just claim that Brooklyn NIMBYs are responsible for Darfur.
There isn't a major project in the city that didn't have missing or rejected paperwork at some point in the approvals process. It would be almost impossible to follow every letter of the law. It's the same as asking if every single restaurant is always 100% compliant with every law, or if every single resident is separating plastic from paper at all times, even when walking down the street.
I'm no lawyer, but criminal code is not the same as general statutory code. A person isn't a criminal if he/she forgets to recycle or drives 30 in a 25.
By the looks of the missing paperwork, there is NOTHING that should prevent the building from being built. It's just more delays by the self-appointed "Concerned Citizens". I bet you these alleged activists consist of a couple bitter grannies. Not one of these "Concerned Citizens" is an immigrant, even though the nabe they claim to represent is majority immigrant. I wish the hard-working Mexicans and Chinese would buy these interlopers a one-way ticket back to Des Moines.
Posted by: crawford at February 6, 2007 10:05 AM
I would submit that more residents of Sunset Park have committed murder than NY real estate developers as a whole....probably more rapes and robberies as well.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 10:26 AM
crawford, how kind of you to post. We all just love hearing from you. You care so much!
"criminal code is not the same as general statutory code" CORRECT, except DOB is now turning statutory DOB codes into criminal ones once ECB violations are skirted or major offenses occur. But, that's off topic.
Missing paper work aside, here's another architect and developer who attempt to skirt the DOB zoning and filing regulations via the professional certification policy (which now has some teeth, albeit baby teeth, with City Council's vote last week) and tried to pass off bogus plans for a bogus 12 story building. Caught red handed not telling the full truth to the DOB via his self cert right (hopefully to be revoked). Sound like someone else we knew?
Stop throwing around your typical NIMBY B.S. and deal with the fact that you are defending a cheat and a crook.
Don't have to be "lawyer" to see where that will lead you...
And P.S. the COMMUNITY BOARD does represent all of Sunset Park, long time resident or newcomer immigrant, especially those "hard working ones." So drop that line of that BS as well, please.
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 6, 2007 10:27 AM
Anonymous 9:26 & 9:50 is the same person. He owns a house next to this development. So no wonder he so pissed. :D LOL!
Posted by: Jojo at February 6, 2007 10:29 AM
Wow a 12-story building in Sunset Park! Awesome news! :)
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 10:31 AM
Say fellas, the trolls are out this morning, eh?
Back to the bridges with ye, you fiends!
9:26 & 9:50, Jojo & 10:31:
Please post something with a glimmer of intelligence, geeze!
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 6, 2007 10:34 AM
Sorry 9:26 & 9:50...certianly not trollage. See what these trolls make me do ;)
If they all could only be like crawford...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 6, 2007 10:39 AM
lostinbrooklyn is totally a NIMBY Troll. :)
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 10:43 AM
I don't get it lostinbrooklyn. Just beacuse someone likes this development in Sunset Park (which I am ok with) then they are trolls?
Posted by: Ramirez at February 6, 2007 10:46 AM
I like the idea of a new development in SP, but I hope the building is nice. I bet it will be fugly. :(
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 10:48 AM
Ramirez, guess I am looking for a bit more dialog that "I like big buildings" from folks.
Half the time these posters just throw the sh*t on these threads to provoke people.
Like me ;)
Oh, and to the "NIMBY" comments, I have a new one for you when it pertains to illegal and noncontextual development (since I have NEVER been anti development) "NIMB" (Not In My Borough).
That should take care of it and make easy for all of you.
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 6, 2007 10:53 AM
What is wrong with the proposed building? The city is changing, we need more inventory to keep up with population. At one point, people in Brooklyn were upset that someone built brownstones on top of farmland. It's called progress. Face it, the old days ain't coming back.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 11:01 AM
What is good about these new developments is that they will house more people who are been price out of Manhattan. Also the people in those old boring buildings won't be displace if there are new developments that will accomadate the newbies. :)
Posted by: Lora at February 6, 2007 11:07 AM
I live in Sunset Park. I want two things -- to preserve the beautiful view from our beautiful park, and to see mid-rise construction on 4th Ave. The only reason we might not be able to get both is because of the incompetence of the City of New York, whose job is precisely to mediate between competing goals, but can't even seem to stop scofflaw developers from wrecking other people's homes.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 11:09 AM
I live in a Brooklyn in an old brownstone apartment and can't wait to stay in my favorite Brooklyn and moved to a new building soon. Nothing wrong with the new in Brooklyn.
Posted by: Robbert at February 6, 2007 11:11 AM
I am with lostinbrooklyn. These people who like this crap are totally trolls. Go back to your suburbs or Manhattan. Brooklyn needs to be like a museum intact with its beautiful and ugly history. You don't like it then too bad. Move somewhere else. Yes I am a NIMBY and i am happy about it!
Oh and I also like all of those empty lots and ugly garages and the sort. That is what Brooklyn is all about. I am even ok with crime. It seems that crime goes down wherever they put those crappy new buildings.
Accept the old Brooklyn. The never changing place!
Posted by: NIMBY Brooklynite at February 6, 2007 11:21 AM
I think that NIMBY Brooklynite and lostinbrooklyn seem like the real criminals. They don't let Brooklyn evolve. They want to keep it stuck in time for their own pleasure.
Posted by: Gary at February 6, 2007 11:24 AM
"Accept the old Brooklyn. The never changing place!"
Jeez, what a moronic sentiment. Might as well level it all and restore the huts that use to line that old Indian trail now known as Flatbush Avenue. Maybe Park Slope should be restored as it was in the 1970's.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 11:30 AM
Brooklyn doesn't need to evolve than what it is so far. It has evolve enough already. Leave it alone. These criminal developers need some prison time.
Posted by: RRR at February 6, 2007 11:47 AM
Smells like alot of NIMBY posting trolls to me.
Posted by: Ron at February 6, 2007 11:49 AM
If that's the case, let's leave Gowanus the way it is, an industrial wasteland seeping with benzene
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 11:55 AM
I never said anything about preserving "old Bklyn," come on. This is about illegal architectural plans that tends to lead to illegal development.
it's also about building contextually in a 'nabe, not throwing a 12 story building on a 2 story block. The space was a parking lot. it should be developed: legally, safely and contextually. the developer can still turn a buck while being a good neighbor in his new 'nabe.
Enough of this NIMBY crap, this isn't even in "my back yard..."
It's about Brooklyn...which is changing...just for the better, I hope
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 6, 2007 12:12 PM
Maybe they should built more new 12-story buildings in the neighborhood and then this one won't look so out of place.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 12:21 PM
seems pretty easy to parse out the trolls, as they punctuate their sunny statements with emoticons! :p
Posted by: steev at February 6, 2007 12:23 PM
All new buildings suck. Landmark everything. I love vacant lots. I hope the crime rate soars to 1990 levels. All developers are crooks. Free Mumia.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 12:26 PM
I hate these new buildings! They are everywhere now.
>:(
Posted by: Tremor at February 6, 2007 12:28 PM
Oh I see Tremor, we have opposite views. This is what I will say...
I love these new buildings! They are everywhere now.
:)
Posted by: Good Tremor at February 6, 2007 12:33 PM
I agree with Lora at 11:07. The more of these new buildings are built the better for everyone. Even the taller the better. alot of these rent control NIMBYS wont have to move out at all. everyone is happier. NIMBYS still get to live in their old homes and NEWBIES get to live in the modern homes.
Posted by: Josh in the Slope at February 6, 2007 12:43 PM
I agree with everything that ANON 12:26 said except the free Mumia part.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:07 PM
Please note that St. Michael's RC church is referenced as being 200 ft tall. Somehow the new 120 ft building is taller than the 200 foot building it is right next to. Not sure how that happened.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:19 PM
lostinbrooklyn is a total NIMBY troll. Move out already. There are many little towns that you can preserve. Stop preserving a big city.
Posted by: Nomik at February 6, 2007 1:58 PM
I love when the ignorant, brainwashed, filthy, seething, masses come to the aid of wealthy real estate developers... I almost get a tiny bit weepy. Don't forget little people... Don't forget that I'm going to even build a community facility to treat your meth addicted, whoring, syphilitic preschoolers in exchange for some additional F.A.R.
And I promise to pay the shipping fees (UPS Ground) for any Mexican laborers that may accidently drop dead while digging my building's foundation.
So there. Thanks for letting me cheat a little... I plan to give back so much more to you little folk, much than the $700,000 I plan on making per unit that ... I'm getting weepy again.
Posted by: Mr. Kenneth Wrong at February 6, 2007 3:54 PM
Thank you Mr. Kenneth Wrong! You are my hero!
Posted by: Beck at February 6, 2007 4:02 PM
Please note that St. Michael's RC church is referenced as being 200 ft tall. Somehow the new 120 ft building is taller than the 200 foot building it is right next to. Not sure how that happened.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:19 PM
That's because the new building is higher up on the hill than St. Michael's.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 4:20 PM
Crawford - If a rear yard is required by code, failure to include in a self-certified set of plans amounts to a lot more than "missing paperwork".
Likewise, failure to submit a "full and accurate" set of architectural has implications beyond just "missing paperwork" - that missing paperwork might include things such as shoring and underpinning plans. That missing paperwork might result in the collapse of a neighboring building (its happened before...).
Personally, if it is legal to build this 12-story building on this site, so be it. For those that don't like that, change the zoning. But if it is not legal to build this 12-story building, it should be stopped. Further, if the discrepancy amounts to literally missing paperwork, the project should be stopped until the paperwork is corrected and reviewed and approved by DOB. If it goes beyond just missing paperwork, the architect should be fined and lose his or her self-cert privileges.
All of the above should be true on any project - the problem is, DOB now has a well-deserved reputation for not caring, and turning a blind eye to rogue developers, architects and builders.
Posted by: WBer at February 6, 2007 4:40 PM
Kenneth Wrong,
That was awesome!
Most of the "anti-NIMBY" and "pro-developer" posters that are freaking out here are missing the point of Lost in Brooklyn and some of the others who have objections to this building, which is:
No one is opposed to new construction - what pisses people off is when the following occurs:
1. developers lie and cut corners and start projects without taking care of neighboring properties. (underpinning woes - creating structural damage to adjacent buildings and getting away with it and not giving enoughh of a shit to repair it, or better yet, to prevent it!)
2. when developers lie to get around zoning laws to make more money (for example - community facility BS that never is meant to be implemented)
3. when developers max out FAR at the expense of the quality of the building, which will have a very long shelf life just sitting there for decades, long after the developer has retired to another state.
4. The DOB lifts stop work orders when serious ILLEGAL construction has occured.
5. Developers that create potentially dangerous buildings by not carefully following building safety codes, exposing future residents (owners and renters alike) to potential injury or death.
6. Buildings that are put up as quickly as possible without regard for design, quality of construction, or aesthetic appeal, exposing future owners to financial hardship and legal liabilities should the structure fail or require extensive upgrades/repairs due to non-conforming construction or other defects.
But the main thing is, if someone submits incomplete or unsafe architectural plans, no one can be assured that the building has been built to a high, safe standard.
The DOB is a taxpayer funded agency whose job is to protect the public by ensuring that those standards are met EACH and EVERY time a new building goes up. I think they've earned a big fat F, if we're giving letter grades.
THAT is what is of concern to many of us in the neighborhood.
It's great to be all gung ho about "progress" in brooklyn, but don't you want to know that the building will be LEGAL, as well as safe for years to come? We can't trust the DOB to be looking out for our best interests in this regard.
That, myy friends, is what irks many of us about the current state of construction in brooklyn.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:10 PM
Hey Lost in Brooklyn,
What's up with the brand new construction site on 20th street betwen 5th and 6th? (It's a few properties downhill of the tall Scarano job.)
Looks like they've been pouring concrete already.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:28 PM
"No one is opposed to new construction"
Wrong. Most NIMBYS are opposed to all new construction. They love their neighborhood and they do not want to share it with anyone new. More inventory means lower prices. So instead of being happy that more people get to have a roof over their heads, selfish NIMBYs are more worried about their property values.
It must be terrible to live life as a NIMBY, constantly worrying, constantly evading progress, etc...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:36 PM
only well off are oppose to development. they want to put everything in a shrink wrap.
working class people need places to live too! these type of developments would benefit working class people. it won't displace any more of the in the nabe.
Posted by: armchair_warrior at February 6, 2007 6:33 PM
Armchair -
So this project is going to be affordable housing? Please, give us details - how many units? at what % of AMI? is there a non-profit involved?
But even with affordable housing, that is no excuse for bending or breaking the zoning or building code.
Posted by: WBer at February 6, 2007 9:29 PM
Thanks to those who covered my back and understand the real topic posed in this thread. For those who throw around "NIMBY" comments, I'll stop arguing with you. Blue in the face here and you are not getting it.
1. It is not about preservation (except the view from Sunset Park). This was a parking lot, sold by a local funeral home to the developer. Something should get built here...
2. The plans for the 12 story building (plus 35+ ft of bulkheads), if submitted legally (either self cert or normal plan review) could not be argued, since it it an "as of right" project, except by the community, hoping for a smaller structure.
3. Since the self cert plans filed WERE ILLEGAL (that's the basis for this whole post), the job cannot and should not proceed as "planned"
4. As I understand it, in order to address proper plans (which include underpinning and shoring since there is a underground parking component, also not done properly, objected to by DOB), the architect will have to address the height of the building vs. the allowable FAR (which does not compute) and deal with the illegal use of the Community Facility (one of two?) which they cannot have since they must have a rear yard.
5. So when all is said & done and the architect fixes all the objections and/or changes his plans (the property gets scaled back, either way), some of the height and bulk issues in this "current" R6 zone may be mute.
6. The 'nabe may still want to protest the site due to quality of life issues, views from Sunset Park and work with the Community Board, but that's not what this thread is about
7. Illegal vs. legal. That's the final word.
For now...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 7, 2007 10:01 AM
I'm with keeping Brooklyn as is. We fucked it up already let's not do more damage.
Can we revamp LPC? There's lots of belly aching over there about being under staffed. Do the job or shut it down. I'm paying good money for thier salarys. I know you're reading this. Im sick and tired of 311 calls pettions and letters. Hire more people we a have lots of unemployeed folks here and Bloomberg should put some of that 911 money to good use and stop these fedderorist from building hazzardous builings. Brooklyn does not need fake Manahattan skyscrappers made with faux bricks jacking up the view and blocking natural light to accomodate these so called new comers. There's lots of apts to rent out here.
The amount of taxes we pay here God forbid we have a say on what will effect our property value.
The real hogs are the developers and they give fedders airconditioner on what the rest of the neighbors thinks.
That is why I laugh when thier luxury condos with a asking price of 600k turns into a luxury apt for $1600 a month.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 1:51 PM
"Boys and girls... right behind that Ka Ka is where George Washington spotted the red coats. Please make note for tomorrow's quiz"
Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 6:04 PM
"Battle of Brooklyn (L.I.) In AUG. 1776" for the win?
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at February 8, 2007 10:24 PM
Are there people posting on this blog who work for the developers of 420 42nd? Because I've never heard such absolute rubbish in support of such flimsy, architecturally worthless crap. Is there some new to the market software program, that allows developers tp spit out automated pro-developer blogs from their headquarters in midtown or something? If so I think the system needs some, err... tweaking. (see "sunset park guy's" latest, like we believe he's from anywhere but midtown.) Well, I'm not friends with the developer, and my feeling is that buildings like this are not about progress, or a new brooklyn, but for one person to make a buck. Anyone arguing that this building benefits anyone but the developer 1. Have never been to Sunset Park and 2. Are most likely close friends of the developer. Please go fuck yourselves but first, do buy a unit in your FAR violating, no rear yard, energy inefficient, view ruining, vespa & two latte's a day glass monstrositities. Anyone who knows the industry will tell you, the constuction in these buildings is terribly cheap, the design poor, the cooling bills extraordinarily high and your poorly detailed curtain wall will leak within 10 years. Enjoy.
Posted by: notadeveloper1 at February 18, 2007 2:32 AM
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