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January 18, 2007
Sin-A-Gog Outrage: This Is Getting Ridiculous
Perhaps the lettering on the side of the Kent Avenue death trap synagogue is a hint that the Satmar powers that be have no intention of finishing this eyesore anytime soon. Isn't there some kind of DOB regulation about leaving a project unfinished, especially one done in such brazen violation of building codes?
Synagogue Needs Some Skin, Baby! [Brownstoner] GMAP
Video: Is the New Satmar Synagogue Safe? [Brooklyn Record]
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votes and power and they have they votes. nothing is gonna happen.
Posted by: armchair_warrior at January 18, 2007 10:05 AM
what "brazen violation of building codes" are you talking about? that is sort of a strong statement.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 10:07 AM
I don't think there is a time limit as long as you keep renewing your permits. We have unfinished buildings in the s slope going on 3 years.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 10:10 AM
This building has to come down in a few years, cause they don't own the lot, they leased it from the owners, so thats why they made a temporary building, and thats probably why they don't want to invest too much money to cover the exterior.
Not that this will completely satisfy the critics, and I understand them completely, but just to defend them a bit.
Posted by: Mentch at January 18, 2007 10:13 AM
I was able to sneak inside during the New Year, inside isn't finished either! http://www.eyemaze.net/blog/uploaded_images/SatmarSynagogue1216-796592.jpg
Posted by: g at January 18, 2007 10:26 AM
10:26
i love the interior. the chandeliers on the beams. very cool. in some ways it is a deconstructive work and it it has a fancy architect's name attached to it some who hate might love.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 10:50 AM
The cynicism of this building kills me. It was thrown up for spite and vanity by one faction in a fraternal feud, and it literally endangers the lives of the people he is supposed to be leading. The city moved mighty fast on Broken Angel, which mostly endangered the two elderly eccentrics who lived there, but this, which could kill hundreds of people and firefighters, is left alone. Shame!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 11:28 AM
for those of us with less trained eyes, would brownstoner and anon 11:28 please be specific what codes are being violated?
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 11:36 AM
Anon 11:36, check out the second link to a Brooklyn Record story on the subject. Flouting of Stop Work Orders, worker injury, and just a little overcrowding.
Posted by: brownstoner at January 18, 2007 11:51 AM
satmar aesthetic -- just feels like a collective "fuck you"...
Posted by: pfa at January 18, 2007 12:40 PM
to anon 10:59, re: "in some ways it is a deconstructive work" ... oh please, do the world a favor and get your head out of your ass, will you?
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 4:48 PM
I'm also a little uncomfortable with some of the comments. And why do the satmars and Hasidic groups get so much attention here? If anyone wants to take a look at houses of worship that endanger their congregations there are plenty of churches to go around, not to mention all those little storefront places. Yet no one says anything about them. This just seems like an attempt to drum up hysteria and more bad feeling (very successfully with anon 11:28). I am all for facts and truth but this thread seems to be stretching.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at January 18, 2007 4:58 PM
Shahn Anderson is condoing it.
Posted by: anon at January 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Bx2Bklyn: yeah it must be our virulent anti-Semitism. Or, it could just be our disgust with parts of Brooklyn starting to look like a West Bank settlement sans the bougainvillea. They're their homes, they should do what they want, but we can certainly say they're cynical and tacky.
Posted by: Jeremy at January 18, 2007 5:38 PM
Any House of Worship is a violation in rational thinking.
The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2007 5:55 PM
Jeremy, I'm a devout reader and commenter on this blog, having expressed my opinion here on many issues, so I will try to give my 2 cents here too.
I don't know about you, but I am a hasidic Jew, -although not associated at all with the group that build (if we can call it so)the synagogue-, so I can tell you when Jews are offended, and when not, you cannot come and tell me if I'm offended by any deed or comment from different person, as long as you have not experienced on your own skin, the feeling of being "different" and a member of a particular minority.
I have been troubled, to say the least, my many comments AND posts on this, and similar blogs, referring with very unkind words and terms towards hasidic Jews, I am NOT accusing our dear author the Hon. Mr. Brownstoner of being an anti-semit, nor some of the commentators, but the lack of sensitivity, is very very obvious on this site.
Let's say. for sake of this debate, that many developers of those all ugly-ass buildings in Brooklyn are Hasidic, so what? out of tens of thousands, there are some who you can probably count with your fingers, that do their business in a way very not appreciated by most people, and I totally understand them, but they are a few, their may be a lot of projects, but most are from the same developers, this does not give a reasonable excuse to mention Hasidic Jews in such negative terms, and certainly not all hasidic developers.
Some of the most beautiful projects in Brooklyn are developed by Hasidim too, The Gretch, 55 Berry, Pacific Blue, the toy factory lofts, the chocolate factory lofts, to name just a few, so my main point is, Don't blame all apples, because you have a few rotten ones.
And to Mr. Brownstoner, sorry if I come out here as being harsh on you, I love your work, and appreciate your much time and energy devoted to this site,-one of the first sites that I have to read each morning- it,s just one place where I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
Posted by: Mentch at January 18, 2007 8:47 PM
Jeremy -free speech is still a right in this country. Agreed. But I call it like I see it and to be frank, while it's not my aesthetic, many of the buildings put up in Hasidic neighborhoods are a far cry better than the crap I see going up everywhere else. I don't object to anyone calling a building ugly- I find it repulsive when when one particular group is constantly singled out as if they are the only ones to blame. Nor do I see anyone else who puts up a crappy building being identified by racial or religious group. And if the shoe fits, wear it- your "West bank" comment only served to illustrate my point.
FYI- I am Jewish too, and Mentch is right. Until you have been singled out for being a Jew, or a Black, or Buddhist or any other minority, until you have been refused service because of the color of your skin, beaten up because of your beliefs, or told you you don't belong because you don't believe in Jesus, you don't have a clue what it feels like or even how to recognize it. And yes- I speak from experience.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at January 19, 2007 12:47 AM
I think it is a matter of priorities. They need a place to worship... asap. If this were the deep south they could throw up a tent on some piece of vacant land. Or even a giant metal shed, which is how my family first started worshiping together as a community of less than 100. 15 years later that shed is now a amazing beautiful brick church.
Posted by: Methodist at January 19, 2007 8:54 AM
Oh please. Let's not use this space on this site talking about religion, racism and trying to compare Blacks to Jews to Buddhists to Martians. It's bad enough I have to watch some Lesbian breastfeed her 7 year old kid in a shoestore on the floor blocking the doorway yesterday and now this? Save it for another blog. Someone put a decent restaurant on Fulton St please.
Posted by: Insensitive at January 20, 2007 10:09 AM
The posting by G is outrages to me, he says “I was able to sneak inside”
That’s illegally trespassing and the picture was captured in the commission of a crime and should be taken off
Regarding the interior actually I love it, looks to me Mr. G besides of being a criminal you have no taste
Posted by: brooklyn 123 at January 20, 2007 8:37 PM
That shul is a gem ..its actually gorgeous inside...guys go look at it again
Posted by: Jim D at January 21, 2007 1:07 PM
it IS gorgeous inside, imagine if they had enough respect for people NOT in their congregation to make a halfway decent exterior. par for the course.
also, this is a discussion on architecture, not religion. the people turning it to one are trying to shut down criticism of the hascidic by claiming religious bias. there's no religious bias, it's just f'n ugly.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 22, 2007 8:49 AM
The really offensive comment here is the one about "some Lesbian breastfeeding her 7 year-old". If you have a problem with lesbians and breastfeeding moms, why don't move somewhere else, like, say, maybe somewhere in the Bible Belt. You won't find many breastfeeding lesbians there.
Posted by: anonymous at January 22, 2007 11:13 AM
some Lesbian breastfeeding her 7 year-old Is ugly
Posted by: brooklyn best at January 23, 2007 12:42 AM
I would like to see two Lesbian breastfeeding each other that’s nature at its best
Posted by: brooklyn love at January 23, 2007 12:44 AM
I agree with Mentch. The building is quite ugly but this is not because the builders are Hasidic. I respect the community for being able to rally together to accomplish their goals. As a Muslim, I know what its like to be discriminated against. I have personally worked to speak out against terrorism, sexism, racism, etc. but sometimes the "Modern: muslims like myself go unheard because it sells better to showcase some asshole doing something negative. I have shopped for childrens clothing on Lee avenue (wearing a headscrf and found the merchants to be quite respectful. I've experienced worse treatment in some so called progressive neighborhoods. So again lets just be careful not to become anti-semitic when discussing an ugly building.
Salam/Shalom
Posted by: Anonymous at January 23, 2007 7:33 PM
This community discriminates against others all the time. Why is it that whenever multifamily buildings are built anywhere in Williamsburgh, the ONLY families that end up in these apartments are the Hasidim. I know for a fact that many of them receive subsidies to pay rent and vouchers for their kids to attend daycare/school. When do they advertise that the apartments are available for rent? I understand that the buildings are privately owned, however it is illegal in these six family and larger buildings to discriminate. They only care about themselves. Also, The other day i was driving up Franklin behind a school bus. The school bus stopped three times on the same block! each stop was not more than 200 feet from the next. Why can't the mothers (or one mother) bring their kids to one spot on the block for both drop off and pick up? That's what's done everywhere else in Brooklyn when there are multiple stops on one block!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 24, 2007 8:17 PM
From Your allegations against this community its clear that you hate them, you hate their life style you hate the way they go about things,
you don’t like the fact that an average family has six or seven kids and unlike the average American family they do not use birth control or other protection methods because its against their religion however they don’t have sex before their getting married they honor old traditional family values Unlike today where some people consider a family that consist of two lesbians and 2 adapted children
You have a point about them looking to buy bigger apartments but what are their options its not you average American family of 2007 that consist of three or four member they have nine or ten and sometime eleven members in their family’s so they need bigger apartments
Regarding the many bus stops please understand that when the weather outside is 10 degree you cant expect that a mother should walk two blocks with her four year old to a bus stop and especially when they might have at home a baby or a newborn, its clear from you post that you don’t have any kids and you are full of hate
Posted by: let not hate at January 25, 2007 12:35 AM
These are not allegations, these are facts. I don't know how you read that I have a hatred for this community or that I do not have children from my previous post. I don't care if they use birth control or not. It is their choice. I don't care if they have six kids or not. Once again, their choice. I do care that others in the community who are in dire need of housing and vouchers are not getting them. Yes I do have children. I took turns with other mothers from my building walking my kids to their bus stop two blocks away. I got a neighbor to watch my younger children in bad weather. Lets not confuse what I stated as facts, with hatred or anti-semitism. Both the issue of housing discrimination and school vouchers have been written about in the Daily News and other forums previously. The investigative report on the vouchers revealed that the majority of the vouchers in the city went to this community. Concern is not hate! Oh by the way what I do hate is when people - Any people, have children that they can't afford and then depend on public subsidies, to support them.
Posted by: NOT HATING at January 25, 2007 4:44 AM
Lets not mix up facts and accusations just because you are calling it facts does not make it so, where exactly in the daily news did you read it can you provide us a link to check out your so called facts, and lets say it was in the newspaper it does not make it a fact lots of times the newspapers quote stuff from people who have their own agendas either political motivations or trying to get even with a certain politician who is close to that particular community and sometimes its racism involved, there are corrections in the newspaper every single day, if you read the newspapers when the duke rape case broke We where all convinced that these three students where guilty however now all the newspapers are yelling for the dismissal of the charges what happened with the so called facts I guess your newspaper boys where wrong so much for what your calling the facts
And regarding the governments programs for the poor let me give you some facts
The government does not discriminate based on gender race color or ethnicity who ever is eligible gets it and that’s for any community any sex and any color however
Your statement “I do care that others who are in dire need of housing and vouchers are not getting them” you are saying that the government takes away from other communities and gives it only for this community not only is this a bunch of nonsense its against the low and against their own regulations whoever goes down to apply and is eligible gets it and what you are trying to suggest reminds me of a quote from a book that was written
70 years ago by a person that I will not mention his name “ the Jews control the world the Jews are all the bankers the Jews have all the money” your statement that the Jews are getting all the programs sounds the same to me
did somebody say K.K.K
Posted by: let not hate at January 26, 2007 12:49 AM
You misquote me yet again. Show me where I said "Jews are getting all of the programs?" And please do not quote "he whose name we will not mention." Let's not go there! You are right about one thing though. And only one thing! That is that my FACT that the majority of the vouchers went to this community is untrue. The FACT as stated in the article was that the majority of the vouchers went to the Williamsburg, Midwood, Crown Heights and Boro Park Hasidic communities. In addition, the FACT that a federal suit was brought against the NYCHA (a government agency) by Afican American and Latino Williamsburg residents due to public housing being unequally distibuted in favor of the Hasidic community to the disadvantage of the plaintiffs was proven in court (1991) and attempts were made to rectify the situation by only offering applications to the Afri/Latino community. So it is a FACT that a government agency did discriminate against one low income group to the advantage of another. There were grumblings that this happened because of bribes to city officials from certain community leaders. This is just hearsay though, not FACT. The way that the community got around the issue of public housing was that they began to build privately owned multifamily buildings. These apartments were all rented before the last bricks were laid due to community networking and advertising only in Hebrew/Yiddish language papers. Discrimination in privately owned multifamily dwellings is also illegal and many not in the Hasidic community are begining to look at ways to combat that issue. This community has many attributes but for a community that suffered so much loss and experienced so much discrimination, it boggles the mind to think that they can't see how discriminating against others is wrong. The Latino community will continue to grow due to immigration. The Hasidic community will continue to grow due to high birth rates. Both communities need affordable housing. No one community is more entitled to it than the other. We all have to play by the rules. Even the builder of the Ugly temple. AND PLEASE, nobody said KKK! I am a Latina of African descent married to a Jew!
Oh! Read the facts for yourself. All three of the NY newspapers with agendas ran similar articles on both the voucher issue and the housing discrimination issue.
topics.nytimes.com
NY Times 1/30/2000, 12/1991, 2/6/1994, 12/17/95, 9/18/94 etc.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2007 7:31 PM
The suit you are referring to wasn’t answered by the Hassidic community at the time to limited resources the Latino suit was filled by the legal aid it was paid with tax dollars the lead attorney was a Jew named Marty Nidelman that married a Latino there are no Hassidic attorneys.
There is a counter suit due to the fact that Hassidic Jews are being discriminated against by the NYCHA the fact is that not a single public housing went to a Hassidic family in the past 15 years.
Now the Hassidic community pays tax for public school but we don't use it we have our own school system that is supported entirely by the Hassidic community the vouchers that we get is only a fraction of the tax school tax paid by Hassidic community that goes entirely to the Latino population nobody complains about that when the Hassidic community gets some money then there is an outcry.
The Latino bloc vote is far greater then the Hassidic bloc.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 28, 2007 2:10 PM
I never discussed the racial or relgious backgrounds of the attorney's who filed the suit because it's irrelevant. I merely answered your charge that what I wrote was not fact. Lo and behold, it was! One community has not received public housing because it was unfairly granted the majority of the housing in the first place. As part of the settlement the NYCHA agreed to grant housing to the plaintiffs. I never brought the issue of race or ethnicity into the conversation you did and you keep doing so. True that the Latino voting bloc is growing and will continue to grow. If that voting bloc becomes a tyranny of the majority, don't worry, I'll be the first to complain. As for the school issue is concerned, every child in America, even illegal/undocumented children are entitled to a free public education. Anytime a parent chooses not to enroll their children in the public school system, for whatever reason, it does not exempt those parents from paying taxes that support the public school. Nor should the parent look to receive anything to help subsidize their childs private education that is not given out equitably to all eligible parents who may have childrenin private schools. I chose not to enroll my children in public school and know full well that both my property tax and income tax go to support the public school system which my children will never attend. The school that my children attend does'nt participate in the Federal Breakfast or Lunch programs either. Once again, the outcry is not against the Hasidic community. The outcry is against the inequitable distribution of public vouchers and housing.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 29, 2007 12:40 AM
Let me give you some facts about this housing issue that goes on in Williamsburg between the Jews and the Latinos for the past 30 years this goes back even before ed kach was mayer and at the hard of the problem is the Latino argument that more then 50% of public housing in Williamsburg is occupied by Jews and that’s discrimination however the Jewish argument was there are hundreds of public housing projects all over the city
In the Bronx and downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan etc. where Latinos are occupying 80% Of the apartments and there not even one single Jew living there and nobody is complaining about discrimination why not look at the total picture to judge if there is discrimination the fact that the Jews are only occupying less then 5% of
Public housing in entire NYC suggest that if there is discrimination it’s against Jews
There have been low suites and counter low suites for the better part of 30 years
There have been judges who sided with the Latinos and there where judges who sided with the Jews just last week a federal judge sided with the Jews in a discrimination low suite Filed by the Jews (or the community as you like to call all them) against Latinos and h.p.d and nycha,
why am I not surprise that you are not telling us about all the counter low suites
Its amazing to me how selective you are in the information that you are giving us
Just to give you an other minor example on how desperate you are to give us negative news and spread rumors and accusations about the community (Jews) in order to make them look bad and put them in a bad light
you are writing “There were grumblings that this happened because of bribes to city officials from certain community leaders. This is just hearsay though, not FACT”,
If you are a fair minded person and you don’t hate this community then why put this out there after all as you said its hearsay and not fact, it is clear what you are trying to suggest is people be aware even though its not a fact be aware that this rumblings are out there,
What is also troubling is your post how you started and let me quote you
“You misquote me yet again. Show me where I said "Jews are getting all of the programs”
here is from where I got it please read your own quote “the majority of the vouchers in the city went to this community” is it just because you call them community and not Jews that you really didn’t say that ? and further in your post your saying “the majority of the vouchers went to the Williamsburg, Midwood, Crown Heights and Boro Park Hasidic communities” so this is saying clearly that the majority of the program’s goes to Jews
I don’t thing we need anymore evidence with whom where dealing with you would have been very comfterbul in Germany in the 1930’s,
the biggest joke is how you finish your post with saying “I am a Latina of African descent married to a Jew” this reminds me of all the racists who where caught in saying racist slurs there responds was I am not racist my best friend is black
it is not clear if you are a male or female or if you are Latino or not and if you are
married to a Jew or not but one thing is clear is your intention and with that you cant fool anybody If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be reasonably sure it is a duck , so we can reasonably say it you need to take racial sensitivity courses because racism has spread in you like a cancer
and yes your post is saying to all of us loud and clear K.K.K
Posted by: let not hate at January 29, 2007 1:19 AM
Can you read? Once again you want to make this a racial issue. We are talking about the housing situation in one community. Not the entire city. I mentioned an article that I read AND that there were counter suits filed. By the way a quote is a ver batum transcription of a statement or text. The problem that we are discussing is the problem in Williamsburg. Not the rest of the city. In Willaimsburg two communities equally in need of housing are competing for a limited resource. If this were a post about Harlem, I would have discussed the issues with regentrification in Harlem. If this was a post about the effect of illegal/undocumented workers in Williamsburg I would discuss my thoughts on that issue. But again we are speaking about Williamsburg! It is obvious that if anyone disagrees with you on any issue pertaining to the Hasidic community you will automatically call them racist, nazi, kkk, etc. because you can not support your position otherwise. With that said I will not respond to any of your future posts. You obviously have an agenda that does not include self reflection (personally or collectively) Have a good life.
The not hating Black/Spanish wife of a Jew. Yes How dare you question my ethnicity. We are not the Borg!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 29, 2007 8:26 PM
Unfortunately for you the Williamsburg section in Brooklyn is not on a island by itself on the pacific ocean its part of nyc or as Mayer dinkes used to say its part of the beautiful mosaic and every thing is being looked as part of the bigger picture and to make sure that everything in total is fair some communities the Latinos will have a majority in public housing and some communities the Jews will have the majority that’s just the way it goes
I know you don’t like it that way but this has more to do with your racists feelings rather then anything else
Its so funny how your saying “How dare you question my ethnicity” like this is over the line however attacking and insulting an entire community with all kinds of dirty allegations based on rumors and half truths you don’t have a problem with that
I don’t expect you to respond to my post since your attempt to sugar code your racist believes didn’t work out and as president lincoln said you can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all the time
Are you looking for help to buy some tickets to fly to the next holocaust denial conference in Iran ?
Posted by: let not hate at January 30, 2007 12:29 AM
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