« Goldstein et al. File Suit Over AY Eminent Domain IMBY's Tour of South Slope Frames »

October 27, 2006

Wide Price Per Square Foot Range at OPP

building
Corcoran released the first ten apartments at On Prospect Park yesterday. While $1,200 a foot had been the number that had been bandied about for months, it was interesting to see some listings come in for far less. In fact this one bedroom is only priced at $900 a foot and it's even got two bathrooms. On the other hand, some of the two bedrooms (like this one, for example) are upward of $1,400 a foot. We suspect that outdoor space and views are the swing factors.
Floorplan Porn: Meier's On Prospect Park [Curbed]
On Prospect Park Listings [Corcoran]
Photo by Alex Terzich




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:27 AM | Comments (43)
Categories: Development

Comments

Trhe building looks out of place in Park Slope. Why spend $1000 and more for these condos when you can buy a historic townhouse at $750 per square foot and less?

Posted by: Torch at October 27, 2006 10:04 AM

Do people really think these apartments are going to sell at these prices? Over 1 million for a one bedroom in Brooklyn?!?! I'm curious to hear what other people think.

Posted by: Anon at October 27, 2006 10:08 AM

I think it might appeal to a certain kind of person -- the folks who REALLY want to live in Manhattan and are just coming out to Brooklyn to afford a snazzy upscale apartment building. But maybe that's just a little snark because I would also buy a townhouse if I could afford those prices ...

Posted by: shelz123 at October 27, 2006 10:13 AM

This isn't Park Slope.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 10:14 AM

I'm a townhouse dweller but can see why people would want to live in this building. Great light and right on the park, with views.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 10:17 AM

The first poster doesn't seem to realize that there is a huge diference between living in a condo/coop and owning your own townhouse. They appeal to totally different people with different desires and needs. Even with that in mind, the prices do seem a bit steep.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 10:38 AM


stupid comment --->'Over 1 million for a one bedroom in Brooklyn?!?! ' -
its over 1000sq ft of upscale apt with great views in very pricey neighborhood.

The ability to get their orig. asking prices will be determined by strength/trends of condo market.
I would think that developers, financial backers, et al have good sense of how to price, what is their target demographic, etc.
we've seen plenty of 10% mark downs on new condos recently - this place may also get one.
Very different person of wanting ultra-mod luxe condo than buyer of brownstone. Room for both in the neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 10:47 AM

"4 is the new 2"
prospect park is the new central park.

Pluses, it's within walking distance to the park, the museum, the botanical gardens, the slope, the heights and downtown brooklyn. some of those apartments probably look out on both the fountain at grand army plaza and the one at the museum.
Price is still a whopper though.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 11:03 AM

Isn't the sales office in Tribeca?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 11:07 AM

Except that 1 br ISNT priced at $900 a sq ft. Using there floor plan and being as generous as possible it is a 875sq ft apartment. Therefore at 1,050,000 it is $1200 a sq ft for this one BR.

Compare that to CORCORAN's listing in Newswalk at 1.4M - which even accounting for that overstatement in sq ft (it is really only 1550 sq ft) - they are asking 900sq ft and it has less than HALF the maintainance.

Sorry but there is no way that they are going to get $1200 a sq ft in Prospect Heights - and that is not even factoring in totally insane maintainace expenses.

Posted by: David at October 27, 2006 11:23 AM

If I could afford it, I would buy it, high prices and all. I think that the developer is making a very simple bet: there are people who prefer to live in brooklyn then live in manhattan. And if you have the cash, this is the best building in brooklyn bar none. It's really pretty simple. This will be one sought after building in the resale market.

What astounds me though, is not so much the prices, which I expected to be high, but the maintenance. This place should have some pretty amazing amenties for these maintenance charges. Or maybe it just costs a fortune to heat because it's all glass......I guess if you have that kind of cash, the maintenance is just a drop in the bucket.

Posted by: anon at October 27, 2006 11:28 AM

10:38

I fully understand that different people like townhouses vs. condos. However, I believe the pricing should still be similiar. In Manhattan (for example) townhouse space is actually more expensive than condo space (in general).

People can pick their preferred living environment, but I believe the pricing of these condos are expensive in light of how much it costs to buy a townhouse.

Posted by: Torch at October 27, 2006 11:38 AM

"its over 1000sq ft of upscale apt with great views in very pricey neighborhood." <---- Stupid Comment

Like someone said above using even the most generous measurements it doesn't come close to $1,000 square feet. Sure I'll give you upscale apartment with great views, but please tell me when Prospect Heights became a very pricey neighborhood?

Posted by: Anon at October 27, 2006 11:38 AM

Yes some people prefer Brooklyn over Manhattan and some people prefer Buffalo over both of them, but it doesnt mean that you can get away with charging 30% more then the prevailing market conditions.

Further how you can call this "the best building bar none" when it isnt even built yet is truly beyond me.

Posted by: David at October 27, 2006 11:52 AM

how can you call it 30% over prevailing when not built yet too.
Where are your comps for very lux, modern condo bldgs.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 12:21 PM

I am sorry but... this is crazy! I love brooklyn, believe me, I do...but who in the hell purchases a Condo with 1 Bd and 2 Baths with (allegedly) 1,043 sq ft for $1,050,000 at Grand Army Plaza. Is Prospect Park and the little farmers' market THAT cool? What are the price in the bank (One Hanson) or the Watchtower building?

Posted by: Bridge for Sale at October 27, 2006 12:38 PM

I agree there's a huge difference between those who buy condos like this, and those who buy townhouses. By the argument "they could buy a townhouse for that" it would mean all those buying newly constructed luxury condos in Manhattan would instead buy townhouses, when the truth is those condos are selling like hotcakes.

The people who can afford to buy and will buy units like this are very wealthy busy people who have no time for fixer-upppers, or it's a pied a terre and they don't want a house to serve that purpose, or it's a NYC home for an international businessperson, or it's an American businessperson who travels a lot. Etc etc etc. Most of us would think it's crazy to buy one of these units, but for certain people it's ideal.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 12:38 PM

Comps - Corcoran is listing Newswalk at $900 a sq ft, the Park Place Condos (on Flatbush in Park Slope) for approx $855 a sq ft and apartments at One Hanson are in the $750 sq ft vicinity. (and BTW all have maintaince at least 50% lower)

Any other questions?

Posted by: David at October 27, 2006 12:55 PM

David ..

My point exactly!

Posted by: Bridge for Sale at October 27, 2006 1:03 PM

Well here's my point, for those not following real estate trends in NYC that every newspaper and magazine has been writing about - three words, BIG NAME ARCHITECT. That's what they're paying for and they DO pay more for that, no matter whether we ourselves would value that feature or not.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 2:22 PM

Are you kidding me with Newswalk, Park Place and One Hanson being comperable to this building? Have you been in those developments? Park Place is one of the crappiest construction jobs around and One Hanson and Newswalk are converted factory/office buildings soon to have views of exceesive construction and, thereafter, very limited views.

Of course this building will be priced higher.

Posted by: anon at October 27, 2006 2:28 PM

This is a Richard Meier building everyone! His condos sold for $2,500/sf in the West Village when the prevailing prices in the neighborhood at the time were around $1,000-$1,200/sf. And I agree, townhouses vs. condos are two different target markets whether some of us understand that or not.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 2:40 PM

This corner is sort of like the Columbus Circle of Brooklyn. It's a little bit of a walk to get to restaurants & stores etc (i.e. over to 7th avenue) but it is right on the Park. I own a Brownstone and love it, but can easily see why people would want to live in this building. How does this price compare to some of the co-ops on PPW?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 2:44 PM

I doubt they will get the prices - they will have to find 110 buyers for the apt.

It may work if it is a much smaller development with lets say 10 apts to sell.

I will be very suprised if they achieve asking prices - that being said I have been very suprised earlier as well.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 2:53 PM

another comments:

These are not family apts. They are huge with big rooms, but convenience like home offices, dinning rooms are difficult to nicely put into the floorplans when you have two children and not having the bedrooms available.

Further I think Richard thought whoever pays that much for the apt and maint. they don't have any money left for buying cloth and other stuff. The closet space seems small compared to the size if the apt.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 2:56 PM

1 hanson 1166 sq ft $1.177m maint $1660

OPP = 1263 sq ft $1.2m maint $1500 approx.

Seems rather similar in price to me.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 3:58 PM

How far can you really take the famous Architect/Oh, it's a Meier building argument? Do you think people in Oklahoma City care or have ever heard of Meier? I'm not suggesting that BK is Oklahoma City, but BK is certainly not Manhattan. People in BK are going to care a lot less about who the freakin' architect is. That being said the base of people willing to buy these apartments is going to be a lot smaller. I can see some people from Manhattan moving out to BK, but are they going to make the treck to Grand Army Plaza? The area isn't exactly the small jump over the river that makes BK Heights and Dumbo attractive to Manhattan commuters.

Posted by: Anon at October 27, 2006 4:21 PM

Sorry 3:58pm but you took the most expensive listing at 1 hanson and you compared it to the cheapest listing at 1PP and then you ignore the fact that even in a light most favorable to the broker - the actual sq footage is 200sq ft less at 1PP.

Posted by: David at October 27, 2006 4:32 PM


You can still get a big apartment in Greenwich Village for those prices and be within close walking distance of everything cool and fun.

It reminds me of the story The Emperor's New Cloths -- famous architect builds a big glass building and convinces people there's more to it than just glass!

The point of paying the big bucks in NYC is to buy convenience. There's nothing convenient about walking three blocks to buy milk and eggs when you're paying 3 million for a 2000 square foot pad.

Posted by: Ishkabible at October 27, 2006 5:58 PM

Newswalk, One Hanson Place (Williamsburgh Bank Building) = AY construction horrors, views blocked by looming skyscrapers, regular invasions of ill-mannered basketball fans, etc.

Park Place = cheap, crappy construction to boot.

Naturally their prices are lower!

This is a fabulous location (apart from the traffic on Grand Army Plaza, sure to be made even worse if Ratnerville happens), and those views won't be blocked (unless the city decides to allow greedy developers to build in Prospect Park!). The building looks good, and if the construction quality is even close to that of his West Village buildings, it will be great.

Posted by: babs at October 27, 2006 6:33 PM

Isn't it a well known fact that prices per square foot for townhouses are cheaper than condos/coops in manhattan. I'm a townhouse lover but I think new yorkers are apartment lovers otherwise townhouse prices would be through the roof. I don't see many $10 million plus townshouses but there plenty of fancy coops in the city that demand higher prices than townhouses so I don't think its crazy for a snazzy condo to demand premiums over townhouses. Granted most people moving from manhattan to brooklyn are looking for more space with a family and therefore townhouses should be more in demand but maybe that's changing and people with or without kids are choosing brooklyn over manhattan. It should be interesting to watch.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 7:11 PM

4:21, sorry man but I have to disagree...

There are probably a surprising number of people in Brooklyn who do in fact know and care about Richard Meier and, for them, getting to own in one of his buildings is gaining membership into a very exclusive club.

It's called "branding."

These will sell, maybe even at the ask prices. If they were priced any lower the potential buyers might think something was amiss. You might think I'm crazy but there is a niche market for these types of offerings. same thing with the maintenance - if it were too low (i.e. normal) then potential purchasers would balk and think they were cutting corners with the concierge/doorman/management etc...these are for very wealthy people who have money to burn who really want to impress their guests. Or their potential girlfriends and/or boyfriends
(Hope I get invited to a party there someday.)

Oh, and in case you didn't know, Brooklyn is now officially hipper than manhattan...

Posted by: Anonymous at October 27, 2006 8:53 PM

bk has been hipper than most parts of manhattan by a country mile...case in point, compare to that wack ass area called murray hill, full of those jersey boys who moved into the city for the first time and hang out at third and long...wikiiiittttyy waaaaacccckkkkk..........

oh and let's not forget the UES with the boys with the dirty white lacross baseball caps with the curved front...

Posted by: ltjbukem at October 28, 2006 12:48 AM

I love all the tiny little minds that pollute this boring site.

Posted by: Ed at October 28, 2006 1:09 AM

It figures that this thread would turn into a Brooklyn-vs-Manhattan haggle. I am somewhat concerned about the market in Condos in general. But, time will tell what the outcome will be here not baseless predictions from the usual armchair experts who contribute to this constant garble and hot air topic.

Posted by: anon at October 28, 2006 10:44 AM

I think these apts. look gorgeous. Yes, I love brownstones but... I also love new, great construction, no muss no fuss, no worrying about re-doing anything. Pricey yeah, but re-sale on these should be great too. Anyone been in yet?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 28, 2006 4:51 PM

Anybody know if any of these units have actually been sold? And to who? Users or speculators?? People with small beds?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 28, 2006 6:34 PM

some of these units were saved for friends/family and are sold already. word is that move in dates will be in 2008, buying from prospectus only.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 28, 2006 7:29 PM

I see: The 1 mill 1BR will be 2mill in 2011 - the latest!!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 28, 2006 9:33 PM

Anybody else notice that if you stand in the middle of the meadow in Prospect Park the only building you can see is this one.

I'm sure there are lots of people pissed off!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 29, 2006 12:17 PM

For all of you that have faith in the branding power of starchitects like Meier, you might want to take a look at this Journal piece from April. Not only were apartments in a number of his (and a number of other high profile architect's ) buildings not selling but developers were inflating sales figures try to pressure buyers.

http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/markettrends/20060403-mcmullen.html

Perhaps over priced is just plain overpriced no matter who scratched out the design.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 30, 2006 8:27 AM

Well you know the kind of people who are always willing to overpay for real estate - movie stars. Just look at the sprawling money pits they buy out in California. So I wonder which celebrities will move to Brooklyn now! The Meier buildings in Manhattan sold their units to celebrities, including Nicole Kidman.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 30, 2006 5:55 PM

There's one obvious point that's not being made here:

It takes less time to get to work on Wall street from GAP than it does from midtown, and it's a hell of a lot less time than from the upper eastside or the upper westside. How long do you think it will take people to figure this out? And while it might be our little secret that Prospect Park is better and way more useable than central park, it can't be kept secret that it is closer to work for downtown bankers. They're probably screaming that in the Tribeca sales office.

And in response to those people who say GAP isn't as convenient as Manhattan in terms of corner stores, etc... I say that with those maintenance prices as high as they are, they probably have refridgerators in the lobby for fresh-direct deliveries. Plus, not even a brownstoner cares if it's three blocks to a corner store to get milk if they have the farmer's market downstairs.

Sorry everybody, but if I had the money, I'd love to have one of these apartments. Is it worth the money? I don't know---you'd have to have the money to even ask yourself. As for whether the people that do have the money will want one of these apartments? I think they ought to, but who knows? Maybe the prestige of living in Manhattan trumps every other advantage.

Posted by: Jenn R at February 2, 2007 1:57 PM

Post a comment

Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.

Latest Restaurant Additions