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October 3, 2006

Paddle Time: 404 Stuyvesant to Hit Auction Block

house
All of Stuyvesant Heights is aflutter over the latest beauty to hit the market - 404 Stuyvesant Avenue. (Check out the full page photo on p. 252 of Bricks and Brownstone.) According to an email we received from a reader, the current owner, who lives on Long Island, inherited the place a few years ago from the old lady who'd lived there for years. He's been collecting the modest rental income for a while but recently decided he wanted to sell. We hear that the guy's already been offered as high as $1.5 million for the place but thinks he can do better. So who'd he go with? Corcoran? A local broker? No way. He's going for a balls-to-the-wall no-minimum auction. It'll be interesting to see if he's right. In the meantime, he should make sure his auctioneers know the difference between Brooklyn Heights and Stuyvesant Heights!
Limestone Mansion [Absolute Auctions & Realty] GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:26 AM | Comments (51)
Categories: Properties

Comments

I can't wait for the auction! It will sell for at least $1m & than maybe, just maybe this will end all the Stuyvesant Heights nay sayers and haters !

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 10:01 AM

$1.5 is doable, we'd think. If anyone's planning on going, we'd love to get a report.

Posted by: brownstoner at October 3, 2006 10:10 AM

Is no minimum starting bid the same as no reserve? It usually isn't. I wonder if this is really an absolute auction with no reserve. I think it would be very risky if they guy did indeed get offered $1.5M already. Considering that the buyer has to pay a 10% commission to the auction house I think it's going to be hard to best that offer.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 10:12 AM

also...it says nothing about being delivered vacant.

Posted by: anon at October 3, 2006 10:38 AM

This block is really amazing. I addition to the architecture all summer long every single house had gorgeous flowers everywhere - really well kept up.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 10:52 AM

Some comps: 391 Stuyvesant was purchased at a discount in an estate sale for $975k in Sept '05 and 416 Stuyvesant traded hands at $1.75M back in May '06. Both properties are grand and beautiful limestones but 404 Stuyvesant is a much superior property. Acccording to PropertyShark, 404 Stuy Ave is 5,300 sqft with a building size of 22x60 on a 25x100 lot. This is a mansion! I think it would sell easily for $1.5 if handled by one of the larger brokers.

With that being said, I really don't understand the seller's logic in using this vehicle to sell this property. AAR appears to be very inexperienced in the Brooklyn brownstone market, e.g., BH/SH error, and from the look of their website, they typically do not traffic in high end properties. IMHO, selling $300k ranch houses in the suburbs does not compute. Why would the seller give such a grand property to an obscure outfit without the necessary experience and reach to garner the highest possible price. The seller is obviously unsophisticated, clueless and not too sharp. The auction is three week away and there's no advertisement other than the posting of a large sign on the front of the property which appeared this weekend. Who in their right mind uses a low budget/inferior distribution channel like AAR to sell such a magnificent house?!?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 10:53 AM

Oh my goodness, that house is stunning...sigh. When they say "collecting modest rent" does that mean it is rent controlled and the tenants probably won't leave?

Posted by: it's me at October 3, 2006 10:54 AM

Stunning! I can't wait to hear about what happens with this house...B'stoner, please re-visit this story after the auction. Thanks!

Posted by: aunt helen at October 3, 2006 11:02 AM

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but -- the C of O is listed as 3-family, so I don't believe it is possible that any of the tenants can legally be rent-controlled. (Nor rent-stabilized either, though I'm less certain about that.)

That's not to say evicting tenants so you could live in the house would be easy, but my guess is it would be legal, no?

Posted by: linusvanpelt at October 3, 2006 11:05 AM

No. The house is indeed vacant.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:06 AM

What an amazing house. These really don't come up for sale very often, and usually only because someone who's had it for the last 50 years, dies, as seems to be the case here. Ah, the irony of a gem like this landing in the hands of someone who doesn't seem to appreciate the beauty, and is going for the bucks. Seems to me, they should have gone with a broker, too, in order to get top dollar. Since you have to bring cash to the table, as well as the other financial conditions, in a very short amount of time, does it not seem likely that the house will end up in the hands of someone with very deep pockets and easy access to cash, or perhaps even to a speculator who will just flip it? Neither sound like the kind of people who would want to live in it. Or I am I just being my usual cynical self?

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at October 3, 2006 11:15 AM

I am wondering what is actually meant by "I hope the prospective buyers know the difference between brooklyn Heights and Stuyvesant heights"? beauty is beauty and there are alot of beautiful properties in Bedford Stuyyvesant. If the writer of the comment is insinuating crime then my response is that there is crime all over the city. I plan to visit this auction and if the house warrants over 1.5 million then I will be one of the bidders.At this price, for a mansion in New York City is a steal

Posted by: anon at October 3, 2006 11:16 AM

Chill 11:16. The commenter meant that the listing says at the top "Limestone Mansion - Brooklyn Heights, N.Y." (below it does say Stuyvesant Heights).

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:19 AM

You guys have to be smoking something. The house is indeed beautiful, but $1.5MM to live in that neighborhood? After you restore, you've spent another $500 -$750k. You had better plan on living there forever, because you will never be able to resell that property for $2.25MM.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:19 AM

If you read the post, it Bstoner hopes the "auctineers" not the buyers know the difference between Brooklyn and Stuy heights (i.e. that the actioneers are competent and know the area).

Posted by: lp at October 3, 2006 11:20 AM

"I hope the prospective buyers know the difference between brooklyn Heights and Stuyvesant heights"? Because AAR doesn't! Brownstoner is simply bringing to light the fact that AAR doesn't know the difference between Stuyvesant Heights and Brooklyn Heights as their ad states that the property is located in both nabes! Ha!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:23 AM

AAR is a joke. So is the seller. They are going to screw this one up big time!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:26 AM

It doesn't look like this house, or most any house, needs $500K-$750K to restore.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:28 AM

So laughable! It's like hiring a Hyundai car salesman to sell your vintage Rolls Royce! This is insane! Someone is going to walk away with the steal of a lifetime!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:33 AM

These criticisms are interesting. Sound like brokers who didn't get the deal. The steal of a lifetime? Sign me up.

Posted by: Big D at October 3, 2006 12:58 PM

The comps posted above is somewhat incorrect. 391 Stuyvesant was sold by Coldwell Banker. It was listed at 975K which was in line with the market at that time. I do not believe it was sold at a discount because of estate issues. I konw because I put in a bid for it. The 1.7 mil house must be a record for a resident in Bed. Stuy. I don't remember reading anything about the sale but I do know that Corcoran sold a house on that block for 1.17 million. Anyway, the house is beautiful but to buy it at an auction for over 1.5 million is a little crazy. Remember real estate is still about location and while this block in Bedford Stuyvesant is beatuiful two blocks in the wrong direction and the blocks are not so beautiful.

Posted by: anonymous at October 3, 2006 1:14 PM

on the comps, pshark lists 416 stuyvesant as trading at $1.175M, not $1.75M.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 1:55 PM

Response to chill:
I do agree that real estate and location go hand in hand but I want to ask you all this question.... is bedford stuyvesant a developing community and will it be affected positively by ratner and other developments in downtown brooklyn. IT's only three miles away... ask yourselves, where do the people who are opposed to the project...(due to displacement) where will they go.... a 1 bedroom for 589k on Hanson or amove to bedford stuyvesant ? this is just a question

Posted by: anon at October 3, 2006 2:11 PM

I dont care how beautiful this block or house it, I would not be caught dead in Bed-Sty. That said, if I had enough money for a second home, this house would make a great investment property. As one previous poster said, real estate is all about location.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 2:35 PM

As for the lack of adverstising...I have received a couple of emails about the property already. I am sure there will be plenty of info passed via e-word-of-mouth.

With that said...he turned down $1.5M on an inherited property in the hood --albeit on a nice block (and before the comments come, I live in the Stuy)?? What is he hoping for - 1.75?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 2:38 PM

very pretty house. questions:

- what does 10% buyer's premium mean?
- what's up with the weird dijon-mustard-colored paint job and stencilling on the walls? is that one of those things that looks odd but is actually an accurate re-do of a period detail?
- why is the auction at 2:22pm on the 22nd of october? how cheesy is that.

the auctioneer's website looks terrible. maybe they're personal friends of the seller or something. and there aren't any pictures of the kitchen or bathroom... i guess anyone who's serious about it will go take a look in person anyhow.

it does say that brokers can get 30% of the fee if they provide the winning bidder... and no minimum bid? what an odd way to do business. maybe i'll bring my favorite broker and bid $50.

as for it not getting advertised enough, well, it made it on to brownstoner, didn't it? :)

Posted by: sylvia at October 3, 2006 2:58 PM

Hey Anon 2:35:

The fact of the matter is that you don't know what goes on in Bed Stuy, nor the folks that own homes in this community. You are so ignorant, that you allow yourself to make asinine statements like the one in your post, in a public forum. You probably cann't afford to buy this home and your just hatting. Have a little decorum and save yourself from embarrassment.

Posted by: Bed Stuy Resident at October 3, 2006 3:05 PM

10% Buyer's premium means that the buyer pays a 10% commission on the house. Any sane buyer will factor that in when they bid. It seems like a buyer's broker will get 30% of that (or a standard 3%). So if the seller was really offered $1.5M (minus a 6% comission)they would need to believe that the house is really worth more than 5% more to make the math work.

Showing up at the auction with $50K seems somewhat reasonable, but then coming up with 10% of the sale price within 24 hrs seems like the pool of buyers would be miniscule. I'm going to go check it out, though. Love the block!

I'm also not aware of a 1-4 family building in the neighborhood selling for more than $1.2M. This reminds me of a building the next block over that we saw who's broker-friend in another state told them that the house was worth at least $1.5M, so they weren't even interested in putting it on the market at a reasonable price.

Posted by: HC at October 3, 2006 3:27 PM

Something's off here, it just doesn't add up. Any chance the whole $1.5 offer thing might be a rumor?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 4:30 PM

Of course it a rumor.. And Mr. Brownstoner is complicit in the spreading of innuendo! Whether knowingly or unknowingly.

With his Wall St. background and all, he reminds me of an penny stock promoter; Hyping and Pumping to no end.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 4:41 PM

Re: 2:11pm - I remember not so long ago when "people" like u said the same about Clinton Hills, Fort Green & Prospect Heights, look now.....

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 4:52 PM

I think you mean 2:35 and I can't agree more (with 4:52, not 2:35).

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 5:28 PM

Sorry guys for the typo! Fat fingers! The Corcoran comp at 416 Stuyvesant was indeed $1.175M and not $1.75M. And $975k for the 391 Stuyvesant was definitely a discount. Coldwell Banker sucks! Who are you kidding? That was a corner property with a building size of 20x65 on four entire floors (no weird shape extension) and it had a great one family layout. 416 Stuyvesant which sold for $200k more is a very fine home but it's located in the middle of the block with a misleading extension and poor layout (e.g., a two family crudely squeezed into a one family with center staircase); thus my rationale.

In any event, I think that this auction is a poorly conceived idea (and I'm not a broker). It will probably sell somewhere between $1.2M - $1.3M due to the inherit shortcomings of using a hick brokerage firm to handle the sale. If it goes for $1.3M we are talking about $245 per sq. foot to live in a grand mansion. This is not a gut rehab. From what I understand, the building has new electrical, plumbing and mechanicals so you're basically dealing with baths and kitchen upgrades. $175,000 gets you a five star luxury mansion in an up and coming nabe. Yes, location matters but it comes down to a personal choice that will invariably contain certain trade offs and compromises. As for me, I'd much rather live in huge and relatively inexpensive house in a diverse community, near excellent transportation and a short car ride from the amenities that other nabes take for granted. With that being said, I hope the property falls into caring hands. It's the kind of property that one should keep in their family for generations.

Posted by: Anon at October 3, 2006 10:40 PM

I know the owner of this house and he is indeed looking for $1.5. 10.12, you are correct that a minimum bid is not the same as "no reserve" and the owner has stated that he won't take much less than $1.5. I have been in the house (ground floor and second floor only)and Sylvia, the uniquely-colored yellow walls are all original-- the stencilling is from when the home was built. Also, all the original lincrusta is still in the entry way and there are a number of intact stained glass windows on the ground floor. The second floor has a triple parlor (the picture of the fireplace from the AAR website is from the second floor middle parlor) and is also quite lovely. I must say this house has more original detail than any I have ever seen, and it's in pretty decent condition. I would hope that whoever buys it would do so out of appreciation for its history. The owner has done some restoration work to get it in shape for auction-- the day I was there the floors were being refinished, and I have seen workers there quite a bit over the past few months, although I don't know what kind of work was being done. In the back on the ground floor is a separate apartment where a tenant lived at one point, and that part of the house does look like it will need renovation, but I doubt you'd have to put half a mil into it as one poster speculated. The house is now vacant and has been for quite a while-- the owner was tired of tenants having no respect for the place so he decided to let it go. If I had the money to buy this place, plus the money to employ an army of housekeepers to clean it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. My opinion only, but it's simply lovely inside.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:12 PM

Hi dude put down the pipe and exhale. 391 Stuyvesant sold for the market price at that time. The agent from Coldwell Banker was very professional and had some good insights into the area. That being said I understand your rationale for your term discount. I saw both houses 391 and 416 and 391 was definitely the better property in terms of detail and size. However, 391 had three floor with an unfinish basement.

As far as trade-offs, I live in Bed Stuy now but also own a house in Fort Green where I lived for 10 years. My place in Bed Stuy is beautiful and the neighbors are really nice. I use the entire bldg as a one family but I must admitt I miss Fort Green and will move back in 2007. Bed Stuy just lacks the necessary amenities. In Bed Stuy when you get home, you stay inside the house. Also if you go two blocks right or left, the blocks are not so nice. I guess you could argue that all areas have that problem but it a problem and like it or not when you paid $1 million for a house the surronding areas impact the appreciation of that property. The house at 404 is beautiful and if you can get for $1 .1 million or less go for it.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 3, 2006 11:26 PM

But Anonymous 11:26pm, tell me this. How much would Corcoran, Douglas Elliman, Brown Harris Stevens or Halstead list this property for? How much do you think that they would've sold it for? I'm sure well above the $1.1M that you think the auction might generate. Right?

Posted by: Anon2 at October 3, 2006 11:49 PM

response to 2:11pm " caught dead in bedstuy" I wonder in which community it is that you reside? Most people can ill afford to live in Park Slope or Fort Greene. So the only affordable place for beautiful browntones today is bedford stuyvesant. I bet you do not reside in any of these desirable areas. So i guess you are one of those anti gentrification folks who reside in Howard Beach or Bensonhurst, areas where I wouldn't be caught dead in for one reason or the other (see Yusef Hawkins)

Posted by: anon at October 4, 2006 12:19 AM

I would guess a Corcoran would put it on the market for around $1.35 million. People get caught up in the house without looking at the location and surronding area. If one of the established firm had it, they could possible establish a new high for Bed Stuy even in this market. This auction concept is strange, when you think of auction you think bargain pricing.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 4, 2006 12:25 AM

I agree. People will go there thinking bargain pricing. The seller will not get more than $1.3M and he runs the very serious risk that he barely clears $1M.

Regarding your comment about people not taking into consideration the "location and surrounding area" I must disagree. No one buys into BS, CHN, PLG without taking into account crime, school or demographics. They certainly do but those factors do not comprise all of the components in deciding where one should live. The biggest variable to most, if not all, is affordability. If you are looking to live in Brownstone Brooklyn but you are operating on a tight budget, that drastically reduces your available options. So you make compromises and tradeoffs. Do you think that the new owners who bought major fixer uppers in Bed-Stuy and Gates (see reno blogs on this site) were also looking at prime PS, BH or Cobble Hill? I'm not sure but I would venture and say no. Nonetheless, I'm certain that they are very happy with their new homes and community.

As for me, I simply buy homes where I can afford. I purchased and still own homes in FG, CH and BS because those nabes were the only ones that I could afford. 10 years later I can now live in fancier and more established areas but the thought of moving or selling one of my properties never even crosses my mind. Like many bloggers on this site, I'm content in livng in a racially, culturally and economically diverse community. To some those variables are advantages, to others they are not. It's a matter of choice.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 4, 2006 6:39 AM

Unless you are doing the work yourself, a house of that size will swallow $175k in a heartbeat. $500k to get it up to shape.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 4, 2006 10:41 AM

I am anon 2:35. I would use my name, but am afraid of getting killed. First of all let me apologize for the "caught dead in bed-sty". My word choice was poor. For those who made personal attacks in their response, let me clear a few things up. I CAN afford the house, I current live in PS and I am not anti-gentrification. I still stand by my opinion that Bed-Sty is not a desirable nabe (it has nothing to do with the residents, I have several friends there and salivated over the listing the corcoran had on Sty Ave and had to restrain myself from making an offer on it). That said the nabe does not work for meb.c it does not have good schools or the basic amenities. It does not make sense to spend $1m on a house where I can't even walk to a decent supermarket and have to take a subway to get to a half-decent school. Only my opinion, please do not flame me.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 4, 2006 12:57 PM

it's fair to say amenities are lacking in bed stuy. i live and own there and have started looking at apartments elsewhere because you can't shop or eat out in the neighborhood, at least not the way i'd like to. i can't fathom paying 1.5 mil to live in bed stuy even tho the house is a beaut.

Posted by: pietro at October 4, 2006 1:19 PM

2:35 I can agree with that as a new residentto Bed Stuy I find myself having to go to Fort Greene to eat breakfast and Williamsburg for Thai or other ethnic eateries. Sometimes people want more to eat than soul food, chinese food or awful pizza that Bed Stuy offers. I too have concerns about the school system of Bed Stuy this is made apparent at 3 pm everyday.If and when I have children and this situation continues to persist I will have to send my kids to private school, continue to drive to other areas to see some more diversity. Sorry if you feel were being attacked

Posted by: anon at October 4, 2006 2:16 PM

$500k rehab?!??! Are you nuts? If a house has beautiful intact historic details, new systems, etc, and you say $500k for kit and baths? A fool.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 4, 2006 5:31 PM

Does anyone know anything more about the architect who built this building? It's beautiful.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 6, 2006 10:02 AM

the year it was erected 1879 dnt know the builders

Posted by: anon at October 6, 2006 1:16 PM

404 stuyvesant was listed as changing hands in 1998 for 246k. The website was ziillow.com. The story about the house being inherited may be false.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 19, 2006 1:08 AM

Sale History & Tax Info
Sale History & Tax Info Sale History
12/16/1999: $258,000
No other sale data is available
2006 Property Tax $1,597
Total assessed value: = $21,565
Assessed value bldgs: $20,754
Assessed value land: + $811

See above sale history for the propery from zillow.com The property appears to change hands in 1999 for 258k. Sorry for the mistake made earlier, I was trying to recall it from memory.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 19, 2006 1:14 AM

good evening..I find some of these comments very interesting. I've spoken to the owner as well, and the property was purchased, not inherited. The auction route is risky, but it only takes one buyer with deep pockets and a love for the property to make it a smart course of action. As many have said, a property like this doesnt come up for sale very often, and believe me, the decision to sell was a very difficult one for the owner. He expressed regret in letting it out of his family, but also recognizes that living in Brooklyn is not his way of life. So better that a true lover of Brooklyn get an opportunity to own such a grand property. Only time will tell if its the right thing to do..(and with regard to the comments about advertising..it's been advertised in the NY Times (auction and real estate sections), The Wall street Journal, and USA Today..I think they covered their bases pretty well)...

Posted by: alwayslooking2buy at October 20, 2006 6:56 PM

The danger of the internet is misinformation.let me clear up a few issues for you. All of you so-called experts are more like old ladies gossiping over the fence. This property was owned by the architect that built the rest of the homes on the block. everything here is way over and above builder standard, undivided still in the original floor plan from 70 years ago, with real oak wood trim and the servants quarters on the first floor.This is an actual mansion! Many of you wouldn't even be willing to invest the cost of restoring that ugly mustard/multi colored ORIGINAL paint job. The woodwork detailing and wainscoating is not even seen in homes under 7 figures anymore.Check with your architectural digests and experts. And we are sick to sell it,at any price. It's been in my fam for 70 years,purchased from the original builder/owner. my brother and his wife bailed me out in '98 so I wouldn't lose it to medical bills and the mortgage company.You should do research b4 you spread misinformation or accuse people of fraudulent stories. My story is the real one,not gossip! I don't blog behind acronyms and code names.There is a plaque in the park dedicated to the owner of this house, my grandmother Albertha T. Matthews.She was instrumental in getting the entire area designated as landmark status/historical district. You need to understand the history of the property. It's deeply tied to this community.All you are able to see, is black people and not so nice areas 2 or 3 blocks away, in either direction.This property is unique in design and stature. I challenge you to find ten more in all five boros with the same combo of elements,style, history and original ownership.True collectors dig deep to find what others don't know to find what is special and unique about the things they are passionate about.I guess that doesn't apply to your little coffee klatch.Money talks and well...we must be at the marathon.

Posted by: KPH at October 20, 2006 10:57 PM

Today's auction, though unsuccessful, was a spectacle. It seemed as if everyone on the house hunt showed up. Some to bid. Most to see what the home would sell for. I'd estimate that there were upwards of 60 people in attendance. Less than a dozen seemed to be registered bidders. The auctioneer attempted to get the bidding started at 2mil. Of course no one jumped until he got down to 600k. Within seconds it was up to 900k and then quickly went to 1.5 mil. At that point there were two or three bidders left. The bid got up to 1.2 mil and that where things ended. AAR urged the bidders to dig deep or prepare to go home, "This house will not sell today at this price." And, after a few more rounds with no bitese they called it quits and returned the checks. Done.

The owners seemed upset but confident that they'd made the right choice in not letting the house go for less than the price they had in mind (1.4-1.5 mil.) Can't blame them. What a spectacular home. What the auction said today is that 1.2 mil is where the market tops off. Anything beyond that will take a special buyer. If the sellers are willing to wait that buyer is probably out there and I would agree that the auction format is unlikely to yield such a buyer. KPH - good luck to you and your family. This site owes its success to people's passion for history.

Posted by: Crystal at October 23, 2006 11:19 AM

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