Open House Picks: Townhouses

the bathroom in the adelphi house reminds me of a prison cell.

4 months? Adelphi property should be featured on "Flip that House"

These are all proto-typical of what's left on the market: building of suspect structural integrity (351), homes that have been completely neglected or run-dwon by their owners (10 4th), or in neighborhoods of suspect safety (1239). Windsor Terrace is the last great undiscovered neighborhood for anyone who lives remotely near the city.

10 4th Place is also underneath the BQE practically. Only 1.2 million? What a bargain!

I love the typical Carroll Gardens owner: can't even afford the real estate taxes in the neighborhood but resent the newcomers who are making them millionaires. Insane.

Can't wait till the bottom drops out. Soon.

My goodness, just noticed that 351 Adelphi was purchased back in June (of this year) for $1.4million. By the looks of things I doubt that the current seller has put that much money into the place to justify a 35% increase. Not to mention the "quality" of the finishes.

No, Howard is not the priciest block in WT--Sherman and Fuller, probably are. Howard fronts Holy Name school and its schoolyard, and is also a main thoroughfare for Bishop Ford kids (who, like all children, generate a lot of noise and litter), is directly over the subway (which you can feel in the houses), and gets a lot of foot and car traffic because of the subway stop. Unlike Fuller, many of the houses are in deteriorated condition. Good luck to the seller in any case.

Market is crashing dont get fooled.

The market is crashing in a lot of places. But not here.

Any market, including the real estate market is affected by the sentiments of its participants. Where the market in NY crashes depends on where buyers beleive that it will crash. If buyers hold out - thinking that prices will drop, sellers will eventually have to drop prices in order to move properties. The real test of the market will come in the spring (after bonus time). If buyers with lots of free cash do not get caught up in the "i have lots of cash so let me spend it" mind-set then I think that sellers (who really need to sell) will eventually drop asking prices.

Based on the floorplan the Cumberland house looks to be 15-16 ft wide.

All these are lipstick on a pig. Move along. Desperate owners playing housing market bingo - praying their number comes up and some fool will part with SEVEN figures for a place they abused. There should be legal ramifications for the sellers and brokers to represent these tore up homes.

waterworks or not, that bathroom is ugly and the kitchen is worse. much worse.

The Howard Place house needs some cosmetic work but it has a lot of beautiful wooodwork and details that would shine with the right owner in it. It might be a little bit overpriced but I dont they are that far off.

Not the best block in WT but certainly up there and very convienent to the subway, stores, etc.

If it is true that the Adelphi Street owner is a "flipper" who spend oodles of cash on crazy fixtures, then I do not understand the renovation strategy. Why use finishes that limit the pool of buyers that would be attracted to the property.

This renovation reminds me of the "flipper" house that was listed on Clermont Avenue last year. It also had a lot of "bling bling" finishes (including a high gloss, wood panelled room), was listed initially at $2million and eventually got reduced to $1.7.

If I were renovating a house to sell it, I think it would be better to go with classic/neutral finishes that are good quality but not crazy expensive. That way the pool of buyers is bigger, and in the case it sits on the market for a while I have greater flexibility to move on the price and still make a nice profit.

Clermont Avenue listing eventually sold for $1.625m.

1.5M for 2-window-wide on Cumberland? Do comps support this?

The New York Observer. “The housing market has been nudging downward for a while now. Add one more factor: the overhaul, recommended this morning by the city housing department, of the so-called 421a tax break. Housing commissioner Shaun Donovan said in a conference call this morning that condo ‘prices would potentially go down to some degree’ in neighborhoods where the abatements would be eliminated.”

“In those neighborhoods, like Tribeca, the Financial District, Dumbo and Brooklyn Heights, prices have been inflated by about 50 percent of the value of those abatements, he said.” Just how much difference would that make? The abatements were worth $40,000 to $210,000 over their lifetimes, so prices would come down $20,000 to $105,000 just because of that one change. ‘It’s very clear that implementing these changes in a measured way over time is the right way to do this so that there is not a one-time significant impact,’ Donovan told reporters.”

“That said, Mayor Bloomberg said early this year that real estate prices were too high, so we don’t imagine he is too worried.”

The New York Sun. “Clearly the boom in the condominium market we were experiencing over the last few years and reached its peak about 12 months ago has cooled and the bloom is off the rose.”

“The vice president and regional manager at Fremont Investment & Loan, Patrick Crandall chimed in: ‘In terms of Manhattan, while its true inventories are climbing, it is really only in comparison to the frenzied absorption we have seen for the past several years. Buyers now know they have time to think and shop before making their purchase decision. I think buyers are taking longer to commit than they otherwise might, because they keep reading about an impending market decline in the papers and fear if they buy now their apartment will lose value.’”

condo price may go down, but they will may be any cheaper to own, I would think that whatever a buyer saves on the mortgage will have to be spent to pay the taxes. Monthly out of pocket costs may be the same.

Someone said this:
"If buyers hold out - thinking that prices will drop, sellers will eventually have to drop prices in order to move properties. "

The problem is sellers ARE dropping prices on co-ops at least, even up to 20% already, and still people are thinking the prices will drop lower. Think again. If people don't sell within a reasonable amount of time that unit becomes a rental. Off the market. For at least a year or two. Most sellers do not have the luxury of letting a place sit empty for months and months while they pay maintenance on it, eventually selling at a loss. The mere idea is absurd.

"If people don't sell within a reasonable amount of time that unit becomes a rental. Off the market. For at least a year or two. Most sellers do not have the luxury of letting a place sit empty for months and months while they pay maintenance on it, eventually selling at a loss."

A few problems with this argument:

1. Most co-op boards have rules against renting the unit and changing it may impact the unit's eligibility for mortgage financing so I doubt we will see all the co-ops in the market hitting the rental market. Condo's maybe but not co-ops.

2. Rental rates will not stay high, if every seller put their place in the rental market then the increased supply will put downward pressure on rental rates, so seller may end up with negative cash flow.

3. Placing a place in the rental market assumes that the market rebounds in a year, think of all the people who held on to their tech stocks during the dot com "wobble" thinking they would recoup the lost value.

4. What about the sellers who need to sell (relocating) in order to buy a new place. I suppose they could rent, but there is still some risk.

I agree with 5:06pm. Interesting this came up, because we are sellers with a Park Slope co-op on the market who did reduce the price but at some point would take it off the market to rent it out, before we reduce it further. The location is too good to have to do that. Some buyers may prefer to pick up a bargain in a new condo building in south-south-slope or in Gowanus, and that's great. It's understandable. It's just not going to happen on one of the best streets in Park Slope. There will be some discount, just not a total panic happening on those blocks.

Also the point about rental rates not staying high is absolutely untrue. The opposite happens when sales slow, in any and every city not just NYC. There are more renters thus more demand thus rent goes higher. Just ask any realtor.

Please explain the "more renters" argument. Where are these new renters comming from. We can all agree that most people have a place to live. We can also agree that in this market people will not sell (assuming that they can sell) and then rent. Are we to assume that "new entrants" to the market place will pick up all the extra supply in the rental market.

Brokers may list apartments at higher rents, but that does not mean that they will get it (the one exception may be very large apartments 3+ bedrooms, since they are rare in the rental market).

Also, are sellers going to rent out their townhouses as well, especially recent buyers will high mortgage monthly payments on single family homes.

What cave have you been living in, 5:38pm? If there's anything making bigger headlines than the sales market in NYC, it's been all about how the rental market is exploding because in addition to other factors, the sales market is slowing.

"I continue to observe that the basics of real estate are back in play and that location and quality rule," the principal at Gladstein Development, Jane Gladstein, said. "Those projects that are extremely well located and superbly executed continue to sell. We must select our locations more carefully and plan our product more thoughtfully."

"While some ill conceived, poorly located, or overpriced condominium projects will likely suffer somewhat in the marketplace, well designed, well located, and smartly conceived projects should sell nicely, though, perhaps, not as rapidly as a year ago," said Robert Ivanhoe. "Fortunately, all of this should mean that the press and the pundits were wrong in their sensationalist predictions of a collapsing market.What a surprise."

(In other words, the best-located units or houses, new or old, in prime Park Slope are never going to be a bad investment. Location location.)

Agree with 5:20.

Inventory has swelled and is still swelling well ahead of poplulation change. Most co-op rent-outs are short term and will not withstand a slowdown. A heated rental market already spells trouble because that's where the bubble sitters are. Simply transferring inventory from sales to rentals will stabilize rental amounts and further perpetuate the "renting is cheaper than buying" idealogy until buying is cheaper than renting (prices drop considerably).

Any spike in rental prices will be just that, a spike - short lived. It will only span the standoff. And even still, rents are not appreciating anywhere near what home "values" were since 9/11.

People don't have to make some huge profit on rentals for it to make more sense than letting a place that won't sell for a certain price, sit empty. Sellers only need enough to cover maintenance and mortgage. It's New York City, rentals are ALWAYS in demand. Get real.

Windsor Terrace Howard house would be great if you did not feel the subway every 10-15 minutes or so.

This is something that's easily changed so it's not a downside to any property as a purchase, but looking at the Windsor Terrace house I had to bring up a peeve of mine. I really don't understand all-concrete or all-brick backyards with no trees or shrubs or anything. Number one, it's ugly. #2, even if you hose it off there's always a nastiness to it that grass doesn't have. Lastly a big factor is sound bounces off bricks or cement like it's concert stadium right up into the windows of your house and surrounding houses. Neighbors can hear every word you say, when you're sitting out on an all-brick or concrete yard. Our neighbors downstairs can literally be whispering and we can still hear what they are saying.

Agreed...concrete backyards dont look as nice but there are a lot of people who just dont have the time to be good gardeners. A backyard of ugly concrete looks better than a backyard of weeds. I have a similiar situation and appreciate the ability to add potted plants and lawn furniture when I want or to have nothing when I dont feel like maintaining.

Especially for southern exposure backyards...weeds will grow like wildfire.