House of the Day: Rugby Road Mansion

This house was on the house tour last year and has great detail. It has been maintained extremely well, recently painted, roofed. The staircase is amazing, as is the stained glass oculus at the top of the stairwell. There was a problem with the entry way floors, I remember - if memory serves me correctly, they were carpeted to cover damaged caused by linoleum or vinyl tiles placed over the original floor by a previous owner who used the home as a doctor's office.

The same owner committed a far greater crime - he removed the original "L" shaped front porch. The home is lovely, and is certainly worth a high asking price (upwards of 2 million may be on target); however, I would not be inclined to buy the house near the asking price without a front porch restoration (photos of the house with the porch exist). Does anyone know how much a restoration of that sort would cost?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 12:35 PM

If mint homes in Midwood Park, which were built from pattern books, are selling in the 1.3 to 1.5 range (and they are), this one-of-a-kind custom beauties in fabulous shape, which are also closer to Prospect Park, Cortelyou Road, Park Slope, etc... should definitely be in the $2 million plus range. Mary Kay also has another (bigger) home in great condition listed at a slightly lower price, around $2.3 I think... This home is closer to Church Ave, which has some quality of life issues (close to Bobby's dept. store), busy shopping district.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 12:42 PM

Be scared to raise kids in that house with that spiral staircase - beautiful home though.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 12:59 PM

WAY expensive. Maybe they're not eager to sell.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 1:13 PM

I completely disagree with West's comment. Depite the loss of the original porch (I am the above porch poster), this is one of the more impressive, well maintained, custom crafted homes to have hit the Brooklyn market in years. Whether or not it isworth the $2.5 million price tag is another story, but it certainly no white elephant. I have been in the home.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 2:13 PM

I think <Mary Kay has suddenly started up-pricing houses in her 'hood. The 1.5 for the Midwood Park Cul De Sac is also way over priced - especially since it is near the train tracks!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 2:28 PM

12:59
Kids have been raised in house with stairs, since they um....., invented stairs. What kind of fragile little egg shell kids are you raising that they can't be around stairs?

If they are really little, just put up a baby gate.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 2:44 PM

Now that looks like a Colonial Revival house! (unlike the ones that were mislabled over on this thread: http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2006/10/victorian_flatb_6.html#comments )

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:02 PM

900k anywhere in Victorian Flatbush will get you a big one family or a muilti family that while it may have some details, it probably needs new roof, siding, and/or upgrade to the mechanicals.

I DO NOT see the market dropping so dramatically that 900k would ever get you a house in this condition. Dream on.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:12 PM

This house, like others in Prospect Park South, is not like the majority of others (although nice) houses in Victorian Flatbush. You nay sayers just don't get it... Sigh. This house is for someone who can afford history, beauty, craftsmanship, space... and who doesn't have to scrimp to pay the gas bill. This may not be for your average homeowner, but I'm willing to bet that buyer is out there... Who purchases the $3 million plus one family houses I've seen sell in Park Slope? People with deep pockets. It's also an excellent space for a writer/artist - and trust me there are more than a handful of successful creative types living in Victorian Flatbush because of the space (and the beauty of the homes).

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:32 PM

My wood frame home is about 2/3 the size of this, and I have 28 windows My heating bill was around $3000 last year. So I would bet $6000. Which is not unrealistic or horrible given the size of the property. Whoever buys this (whether for the asking price, or more likely, a bit less) will not be pinching pennies, I assure you.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:37 PM

In regards to heating, I have a similar house in the nabe and last year it was $4500 for oil heat from mid october to mid april. But it was a warm winter. No question there is more maintenance than a brownstone between roofs, paint, and shingles, but its every 7 years to paint and 15-20 for a roof. Its really not that horrible over the long term.

Having said that, I do think the house is a little over priced. It should probably be around 2m given comparables. Also, 1st mortgages are usually limited to about 1.1 M so somebody is going to have write a large check or take out a significant second mortgage and this fact alone probably limits the pool of buyers. The problem is not many of these houses come up for sale that often (i.e. big house in prospect park south) and every time I think to myself its overpriced somebody ponies up the money. Let's face it, if you want to see the sun on the side of your home, have a driveway, be 12 min by car from Tribeca, and not raise your kids in homogeneous suburbia, there are not a lot of options for one of kind houses out there, IMHO.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:39 PM

And long ago, Park Slope didn't have that prestige either. Things change. I certainly wasn't aware of any Park Slope "socialite circles" when I was living there in the 80's.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 3:51 PM

2:44

Reread my post. I said SPIRAL stairs (especially that big w/ open area in center). Big difference between breaking your ass falling down stairs and busting your head wide open after falling two or more stories.

Put a baby gate on your mouth/keyboard.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 4:05 PM

Fact check. I am a (not unsuccessful) writer. My husband works on Wall Street. We could (just about) afford this house, but we already live in Victorian Flatbush. We have children, a live-in au pair, home offices, etc...

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 5:00 PM

Brownstoner, there is a nasty troll on this thread. Please cast him/her out.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 5:05 PM

I'm sure you can guess exactly where to pin it, thank you.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 5:09 PM

SeamusMacD,

I think you nailed it. There is a bias that this is not true city living, but I always see it as the best of both worlds. Look at as if those manhattanites who wouldn't put foot off the island and us brooklynites in carrol gardens or park slope who say its all the manhattan offers without the negatives. I think this argument could also be made for victorian flatbush vs. brownstone brooklyn as a place where you can still get the paper, a bagel, and coffee while walking your dog vs. suburbia. And for those of us with children, how often are you headed out to dinner really? If you do happen to get the baby sitter on friday you either take 5 minute/10 min subway drive to park slope or 12 min into tribeca for a change of scenery. I remember living on the upperwest side and not being able to find a decent restaurant. I used to trek to the village on weekends. There are better restaurants closer to this nabe. And again, if you have kids, the driveway is a little piece of heaven.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 7:48 PM

I have made it to the LES from Flatbush in 15 minutes on a Sunday am with no traffic. Donuts from the Donut Plant never tasted so good! In my humble opinion, this site is more about period houses than just plain old brownstones, despite the cutsie name.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 9:10 PM

Maybe we are just sick and tired of 'the world revolves around my precious child' attitude.
They can't possibly live in a house that has been occupied for 100 years, because their child will certainly fall down the stairs. They have to have a car because you can't possibly subject their precious child to the horrors of the NYC subway. Yada, Yada, Yada.

Stop yapping about kids, and get back to looking at the house!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 9:13 PM

tribeca 12 min...do it all the time...we're not talking about commuting by car for work. There's express bus that is 20 min to downtown for that.

Kids? I seriously doubt anyone is purhasing this house without kids.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 9:45 PM

your wife Judy?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 11, 2006 11:03 PM

or Jane? :)

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 1:42 AM

Getting back to business, does anyone have a number on a porch reno for this place... Also, what are people's feelings (who feel the house is worth in the $2 million range) regarding the absence of the original wrap-around porch?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 9:18 AM

You are the idiot, my friend. You clearly don't have a clue as to what you're talking about? Why are you even on this thread? You have nothing constructive to say - I clearly said I was interested in hearing from people who are pro-Victorian Flatbush.

BTW, I hope you are extremely comfortable in your 7 bedroom single family landmarked Romanesque Revival home on Montgomery Place... Oh, sorry, don't people get mugged over there by the subway on quite a regular basis?

I've lived in Park Slope and Flatbush and you are so ignorant and overly opinionated, you remind me why I fled to this side of the park (and yes, I could afford the house depicted above - but I already live out here....)

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 10:01 AM

Negotiations over the missing porch could theoretically knock several hundreds of thousands off the asking price, you moron. The house is missing one of its most important original exterior elements.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 10:03 AM

I agree. Those in park slope who say this side of the park isn't safe don't read the newspapers. Muggings/break-in all happen in park slope. They may come from our nabe but they rob you and your teenagers on a much more frequent basis and who can blame them...that's where the money and "presitige" are, but not the most street savvy people in the world.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 11:00 AM

This debate could rage on forever, but I think everyone is a little bit right. Sadly, it might come down to location. I agree with those who say to give a neighborhood time and this one does happen to be improving by leaps and bounds.

BUT as true as that may be and as beautiful as the homes are, many people with 2.5 mm to spend move to Bklyn to live in neighborhoods with leafy, tree-lined blocks that are ALSO walking distance to amenities like shopping, restaurants, gyms and bars NOW, not down the line. Let's be honest, a lot of people looking to buy in Bklyn aren't from the area originally and they want to go where the way has already been paved for them. Not all, but some.

BTW, I grew up in Flatbush in a beautiful Victorian home and I wouldn't change a thing, but even if money was no object, I'm not sure I would buy there now.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 11:27 AM

I love how it takes someone shouting troll to garner a 50+ post count in a thread.
*rolls eyes*

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 12:28 PM

I thought the same thing about kids and the stairs....don't you think some kids have lived in this house and - *gasp* - survived? Kids have most certainly overcome greater obstacles than.....spiral stairs.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 12:36 PM

COMMUTE QUESTION!!!!!

How long does it take to get from this house (the door itself) into anywhere in Manhattan by public transportation -- or any transportation, I'm just guessing public would be fastest -- during rush hour? Anyone live in this neighborhood do that commute?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 12:37 PM

Just answered my own question.

It's nine stops on the Q express to Herald Square (eight stops to Union Sq).
It's eight stops on the B express to Herald Square.

That's not bad. That could be 45 mins to an hour, if the trains aren't crawling. So for living in what is practically a country house, that's a pretty good commute.

Plus it's damn close to prospect park.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 12:43 PM

Be real, please. PPS has wonderful homes, but it is surrounded by some economically depressed areas. More power to the sellers if they can get $2.5MM. I wouldn't pay more than $1MM to live in that house or any other in PPS.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 1:06 PM

There was a sub discussion about subway commute time, express bus times, etc over at this tread:
http://tinyurl.com/y2frlu

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 1:17 PM

"PPS has wonderful homes, but it is surrounded by some economically depressed areas."

Come on, Carroll Gardens is surrounded by both the Red Hook and Gowanus Housing Projects. That doesn't make Carroll Gardens a less desirable area, rents and housing prices are rapidly climbing in that section.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 2:57 PM

why is there such hostility to VF here? is it people who are jealous of others owning such a large home on a quiet street? that the prices are too high? (which they probably are)

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 3:17 PM

Because the people that were bizarrely angry at MKG, have now just seem to turn their anger towards any wood frame house in VF with fantastic period details.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 3:38 PM

I guess wood makes people angry. those damn wood frame houses! I spit on them.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 4:09 PM

would a new wrap porch really cost "hundreds of thousands" of dollars to build? that seems crazy to me, but i have no idea.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 4:42 PM

Last I check we live in NYC and not in Kansas, even people who pay $2M for a 2 bedroom co-op in Manhattan have not such nice surrounding areas and they even have crime.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 5:23 PM

I live in PPS and, although the surrounding areas are lower income, I've had no more issues here than I had when I lived in the upper west side, the east village or park slope. My neighbors are musicians, lawyers, doctors, professors, artists, plumbers, taxi cab drivers, small business owners, investment bankers, etc... Most of us have families. I walk around all the time (although I agree - not usually past 20th on Church - just like I never used to pass 5th Ave in park slope or 98th St. on the upper west side). I agree that the house in question is probably over priced in this market, but it is an absolute beauty and to suggest, as someone above did, that over a million in this neighborhood is outrageous is a bit much. Some of these houses are 5,000 square feet and gorgeous. Pieces of garbage on 17th street in what is now being called park slope, next to aluminum sided houses with pink flamingos stuck to the cement in the front are going for over a million right now. I agree that people seem to have a weird issue with this neighborhood and I find it interesting. In any case, I am glad many of the posters above have no interest in my neighborhood. I like my neighbors and want to continue to.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 5:25 PM

I think people just enjoy ranting and raving and have absolutely no clue about living in Victorian Flatbush. I don't live there so I'm not an expert, but I have friends who grew up there and the houses are amazing. How nice it must be to have a garage. Sure there must be downsides too. But please people tell me where our Brooklyn Shangrila is? I think it's a state of mind. And if your state of mind allows you to trash other people's neighborhoods than I think you are still looking for something else in your life having nothing to do with real estate.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 8:21 PM

Agreed with 8:21pm, and can be said about any neighborhood people rant against - those rants never come from people who live in or have lived in those 'hoods, or frankly, have even every BEEN to those 'hoods most of the time.

This was a fun thread despite the nasty trolls. The George Jetson joke and the wood-house-hater joke make me guffaw out loud! Nice to see that for some, critique doesn't have to equal bitterness. It can be fun and witty.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 12, 2006 9:56 PM

But if some one didn't shout: TROLL earlier, there would have never been so many responses, and 70+ posts to the thread.

It's a shame that it takes snarky comments to generate any interest in a thread.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 13, 2006 8:35 AM

Re: the porch. My point is not that the porch would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to replace... Just that the facade is missing a major architectural element and I would think that would reduce the house's desirability amongst purists willing to pay big bucks in this nabe. It's the period house nut with deep pockets who will buy this place... Also just so you know, I have heard from a reliable source that the place on Buckingham that MKG has for $2.3 has some serious interest... Intact facade, needs updated kitchens and baths.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 13, 2006 9:24 AM

How lucky you were to grow up there! It is beautiful. That's what I have heard - baths are clean and functional, but could do with a face-lift. Sigh, that's the double edged sword of renovating. It always dates eventually, no matter how much work/effort is spent. I often wonder how the brand spankin' new renos we see on this blog will far in 20 years or so....

Posted by: Anonymous at October 13, 2006 8:51 PM