« Monday Linkster John Petit's Vision for Prospect Park South »

October 23, 2006

Atlantic Yards: What The Archetypes Are Thinking

yards
The Times asked nine area residents to discuss their views on the Atlantic Yards project. What struck us in reading the responses was what a war of hyperbole and propaganda this whole thing has been, from the promises of hand-outs and subsidies to the scare renderings showing Fort Greene being cast in a perpetual shadow. What continues to amaze us is how many of the poorer people in favor of the project seem to think they actually have a decent statistical chance of getting anything out of this.
The Basketball Fan: "We could walk right to the Atlantic Yards from our house and watch a basketball game. That’s a beautiful thing. The fans, we’re going to be ready for them."
The Homemaker: "If there’s a huge development plunked down in the middle of our neighborhood, the tone of the whole area will gradually change. People who can afford very high housing prices have to be well off, and I would suspect that most of those new people would be white. I’m fearful of the neighborhood changing so much that we wouldn’t want to live here."
The Investor: "Is it good? Yeah, it’s good for businesses. Everybody’s property is going to go up in the next 10 years. Property in the range of a million will become $2 million, maybe $4 million."
On The Block [NY Times]

The Retiree: "The Mitchell-Lama building I’m living in will soon be developed into something higher priced. This is a neighborhood I loved. I just don’t know what the future holds for me and people like me, who can’t afford the high prices of the high-rises."
The Merchant: "A lot of [my customers] come by car. My concern is, if they can’t park, will they stay? We’ve seen a few larger buildings go up in the area, and parking has become an issue. It can only get worse."
The Gardener: "The project would take away our sunshine until about noon every day. So from enjoying 12 or more hours of full sun, we’re going to be down to 6 or 8. We don’t know what kind of environment we’ll be in that people would want to garden. Would you want to do a vegetable garden next to Madison Square Garden?"
The Apartment Seeker: I’ve heard they’re supposed to build this complex that gives you a laundry room, places to exercise, places to shop. I’m hoping I’m a candidate. If [Atlantic Yards] is going to bring back a certain culture and standard we had years ago, I think that’s great."
The Mother: "I’ve seen renderings where the skyscrapers would cast shadows over a third of the park, covering the entire playground, for half of the day. I can’t imagine that the grass would be as green or it would be as nice a place to hang out. If there’s more traffic in the area, it’s just more dangerous. It’s not the type of situation I imagined raising a child in."
The Business Hopeful: "What I’ve been hearing is they’ll help individuals who want to open small businesses in the footprint of the project, whether by reducing the rent or helping you with a business plan. If I can get in with help in terms of rent and the development of my dream, I’m with it."




Posted by Brownstoner at 8:56 AM | Comments (28)
Categories: Development

Comments

do you mean archetype?

Posted by: italaian at October 23, 2006 9:08 AM

I was struck by how weak the various arguments are, especially from the real estate investor; suggesting his view is relevant is stupid.

Posted by: anon at October 23, 2006 9:09 AM

Well, it was all clearly soft-pedaled, especially since the NYT is partnering with FCR. What a waste of space! The point I would have made is that Atlantic Yards will cut off our access from neighborhood to neighborhood, severly affecting the quality of life in Bklyn.

Posted by: anonymous at October 23, 2006 9:36 AM

Another hard-hitting piece of journalism from the Ratner, oops, I mean the NY Times.

Posted by: crouchback at October 23, 2006 10:14 AM

You realize that Christopher Morris is the fellow who is proposing to pull down 70 Lefferts Place for his 24 condos, right?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 10:16 AM

That's what we thought but weren't entirely sure...

Posted by: brownstoner at October 23, 2006 10:19 AM

I noticed that all the *pro* arguments were from people who intended to benefit personally from the project. Clearly no-one thinks it's going to improve the neighborhood.

Posted by: Diana at October 23, 2006 11:26 AM

Chris Morris may in fact be standing in 70 Lefferts Place in the photo. Anyone who wears a baseball cap and sports coat with a hankerchief in the front pocket can't be taken seriously.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 12:10 PM

Interesting that the Crown Heights teacher (the "Apartment Seeker") is basically saying that she hopes Atlantic Yards will be better than what Fulton Mall has become. She is implying downtown Brooklyn has become a shopping area that she is no longer happy with due to low standards etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 12:14 PM

The business hopeful….. How naïve one could be? This guy is looking to open bar with “cheers” atmosphere.
There will be no space for mom and pops business ….. Corporate chain business is what is going to be
Just look at Atlantic mall

Posted by: Malymis at October 23, 2006 12:51 PM

Malymis, I thought the exact same thing when i read the "story" in the Times. If that guy or anyone else gets to open a single-proprietorship bar or restaurant within the AY footprint i'll be shocked. It'll likely be chili's, outback steak house, hard rock cafe, etc. whatever is in times square...

the NY Times should be ashamed by their lack of credible coverage of this impending disaster - So should all of the city and state officials that have provided the power cover for Ratner. Despicable.

Just take a long gander at Atlantic Mall and Metrotech - that's the developer's benchmark of excellence.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 2:37 PM

It should have also stated that the "Cheers" hopeful works for BUILD.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 3:15 PM

Enough of the NIMBY rhetoric!!! This place will get built in one form or another and the effects probably will not be as bad as everyone is predicting. Maybe after it is built all the gentrifiers will leave Fort Greene and its environs and the nabe will become affordable again.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 3:36 PM

They forgot about THE TAXPAYER, who doesn't think the public should pay for Ratner to get richer.
It would be a lot harder to be against this if he wasn't getting a sweetheart deal on the land, plus massive subsidies.

Posted by: tripster at October 23, 2006 4:37 PM

Reading some of these comments, it's kinda shocking how FCR's public relations machine has triumphed. Did anybody tell the teacher who wants a decent apt that the expected average rent of the AFFORDABLE housing component will be about $2,000? FCR used city-wide income stats (actually extending as far as Westchester Co), instead of Central Brooklyn stats, so that most of their so-called affordable housing is targeted at people earning $60k a year. Sheesh, you're even eligible if you earn over $100k. But for the 24% of Prospect Heights residents who earn under $20k -- sorry, no deal. For those folks, who many would describe as the real working poor of NYC, there are zero, zilch affordable housing units allocated at Atlantic Yards.

Posted by: NeoGrec at October 23, 2006 4:38 PM

those "affordable rentals" will be in Stage II" and should be ready in about 15 years. If that woman thinks she's going to raise her kids there she's kidding herself.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 4:44 PM

Two traffic fatalities on Atlantic in the past few weeks: one at Hoyt + one at Bond. Would like to see a qoute from ther families because there is more to come when more traffic comes, particulalry after drivers get nice and beered up at the arena.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 4:47 PM

It's true, people drive like angry maniacs through those intersections there. Literally the only road-rage screamers I've ever personally encountered in all of NYC while riding in a car have been in the intersections in and around the AY footprint. It's what terrible congestion does to people. Add macho sports fans and drinking, the formula is explosive.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 4:56 PM

D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 5:53 PM

According to the Council of Brooklyn Neighborhoods (CBN), more than 60% of the "affordable" housing will be reserved for people earning $42-113k pa, while just under 40% will go to people earning $21-35k pa. Also, when you consider ALL the housing, ie. factoring in the much larger, market-rate portion, 64% of the residents of AY will earn more than $113k. Currently, only 11% of Prospect Heights residents have this kind of earning power. Need one say more about instant gentrification?

Posted by: Anon at October 23, 2006 5:56 PM

all the gentrifiers who haven't been able to settle in the area already are licking their chops at the prospects of an appartment in AY. gentrification is going to SLAM INTO OVERDRIVE the second this thing gets built folks, and the very people who Ratner has fooled with promised jobs and affordable housing are gonna be SENT PACKING. mark my words. and these people are gonna be screaming and crying and blaming all of the opposition groups for delaying Ratner and costing him money so he couldn't deliver on his promises, etc. yeah, they're going to blame the opposition! but the real reason Ratner won't be delivering is that in the end he has no desire to help other people, his plan is to MAKE OBSCENE AMOUNTS OF MONEY and he cares not about the little person except to garner their support by false promises (because he needs support on the face of things). and furthermore, after the AY deal gets settled watch and see what happens to Fulton Mall. there is no way that the people who are strong-arming AY into existence don't have a grand plan for Fulton Mall. wait and see, we're all going to be spectators as downtown Brooklyn as we know it gets completely scraped from the face of the earth.

Posted by: Carltonboy at October 23, 2006 6:57 PM

What's with the freak who keeps posting "DONE DEAL" on every thread about AY?? Okay dude, we get it, everyone is just supposed to never think. Never question. Never discuss. We'll just sit in front of our TV like zombies, like you. Waiting for Big Brother to give you your marching orders.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 7:45 PM

Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the 9 people interviewed were listed as living in Prospect Heights? The bulk were Fort Greene or Crown Heights residents. I understand that AY affects several neighborhoods, but how about asking those who actually live here?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 23, 2006 11:34 PM

Am I not getting something here? Everyone keeps talking about the little people. THe little people are also the poor hispanics living down Dean St in tenements next to Newswalk and further towards Vanderbilt. They don't have AY propaganda pictures in their windows like the "homeowners" all around the project do. Their not black, their not white. Maybe D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L is tired of sitting around waiting from "orders" or "comments" from moreons like you afterall don't you just sit around and blog? P.S. The folks mentioned earlier in the tenements. Do they get subsidies or just DDDb people. Maybe the head of DDDb can split his pie with them. No subsidy for you!

Posted by: anon at October 24, 2006 8:04 AM

Carltonboy is spot on. Even if the affordable housing is built, and built quickly, it will be a drop in the bucket with respect to the demographic change (from an income perspective) to the neighborhood. It will be instant gentrification and anyone who is not well off or does not own their property will end up having to move because of rent increases. I also agree with Carltonboy that Fulton Mall will ultimately be completely transformed.

Whether, in the end, you think that is unfair or a bad thing obviously depends on your personal situation and view on gentrification and socioeconomic disparity issues - but don't delude yourself, Carltonboy's assessment is exactly what will happen if (and probably when) AY is built.

Posted by: lp at October 24, 2006 11:59 AM

Hey, 8:04am poster, you're right to be concerned about people living in the tenements on Dean St because -- in spite of what FCR have said publicly -- these tenants have no protection. But you're mistaken to suggest that these folks are being passive about their fate or that local AY opposition groups haven't reached out to them. Both have happened. And there's a very active block association on Dean St, to boot. If you haven't yet, perhaps you might want to get involved too!

Posted by: NeoGrec at October 24, 2006 12:22 PM

8:04pm, I think spending 10 minutes every 2 days on Brownstoner is hardly like I "sit around and blog". I am participating in a discussion about the community in which I live. Nothing wrong with that. How was I giving that guy an "order"? HE is the fascist who is bullying people and squashing any discussion of the project on EVERY SINGLE AY THREAD ON THIS SITE. Over and over. As for me, I will say what I want, when I want and question this and anything all I want. Deal with it.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 24, 2006 7:50 PM

Hey 8:04- If you talk to the low-income residents immediately around the Ratner footprint (they are African-American, Hispanic, and a few are white), they are 90% opposed to Ratner. Some of them even have signs up. Go talk to them- they may not know too much about DDDB, but they know a lying developer when they see one.

I've spoken to several people who went to the Ratner affordable housing session a few months ago. They were all disappointed. For these people, Ratner did a better job disproving his promises than DDDB ever did.

Posted by: essence at October 25, 2006 10:48 AM

Post a comment

Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.

Latest Restaurant Additions