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September 18, 2006
Round-Trip from Brooklyn Heights With Luck
There were a couple of things we found hard to believe in yesterday's Habitats story: 1) That a couple that loved their Brooklyn Heights carriage house so much would think they'd be happy in a subdivision in California; 2) That, upon realizing the folly of their decision to leave Brooklyn in 2003, they decided to return and found a one-family house on Joralemon Street in 2004 for $825,000. Granted that it was only 16 feet wide, in need of a gut renovation and sat atop two major subway lines, but that price still seems stunning. Does anyone know the scoop on Kevin Carbury, who's referred to as "the last old-time Realtor in the Heights" and was the one who found this deal for the family?
Back Home Again After a Brief Detour [NY Times]
Photos by Daniel Barry.
Comments
I found the 825k price tag unbelievable too - but 2003 was a pivotal year. Some people still got amazing deals that year, while others paid top dollar. I'm guessing the sellers were in no physical or mental condition to get the place ready to put on the market and these buyers got a great deal.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 9:18 AM
wow they got a deal. they should sell and move to the slope. bh dont have enough restaurants.
Posted by: Armchair_warrior at September 18, 2006 9:52 AM
Carbury is indeed the last old-time type of guy. No website, no nothing. He often has some top stuff at top prices but he advertises in the Times so they aren't really secret or anything.
Also, I know this house and it is tiny and was in awful -- total gut needed -- condition. Agree that there were still deals in 2004. Actually, I still think fairly nice deals pop up all the times in the Heights. It is never as picked over as Park Slope or other areas. I don't know why. Maybe people don't want to live there or they assume it's out of their price range.
And I can buy the CA thing. It was a "green" subdivision afterall and I've had that itch myself from time to time. Esp when you have young kids and you sit with them at home thru a long winter..
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 10:24 AM
It was 2004 they bought the house and there has to be more to story of how they got for $825K.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 10:40 AM
well, the sold their carriage house for 1mm and it was in good condition in 2003. so I don't see the issue.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 10:59 AM
This story killed me. I purchased a rowhouse in a nabe not nearly as fab as BH for more than 850K in 2003. I guess it was in better condition.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 11:00 AM
I know first hand (as their architect) that the place was a TOTAL gut renovation. All the systems - elec, hvac, plumbing had to be replaced entirely. A good portion of the roof was missing AND the back wall had to be entirely re-built. The only things we kept were the stair, the facade, and some of the floor structure. Also, Kevin is a great realtor - really knows the Heights!
Posted by: tvvn at September 18, 2006 11:50 AM
Carriage House makes sound elegant. On dark alley with parking garages. 20 by 50' 2 story structure covering entire lot.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 11:55 AM
I am frankly amazed to finally hear someone admit that the houses on Joralemon are built over subways. Considering the condition of the house when they moved in, I honestly think you would have to be out of your mind to pay even $825 three years ago. This house is directly opposite the houses on Joralemon that have been consistently on and off the market for the past four years and just steps away from the wreck on Columbia Street (clapperboard, sold by Corcoran a few months back) that sold for $1.8 mil after a bidding war. Did anyone notice that Sotheby's now are listing it for $2.1 in the NYT. Obviously whoever bought saw how much it would really cost to renovate. I've always loved the houses down at the end of Joralemon but I would never consider buying. Frankly, two subway lines constantly trundling underneath has to have some kind of structural effect on the building over time. Moreover, I dread to think what damage the pedestrian traffic will do to the gorgeous cobblestones when the park opens.
Posted by: anonymous at September 18, 2006 12:03 PM
the subway has been there for almost a 100 years now, and the buildings are still standing.. will it take 300 years for the effects to be seen??
Posted by: OE at September 18, 2006 12:10 PM
those houses have lasted as long as the subway so I wouldn't worry about that. also, those carriage houses on college place may sound inelegant to you but they are prized and those garages have been pretty good neighbors. they are going condo tho and it will be a pity
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 12:10 PM
i live around the corner from there. you don't notice the subway during the daytime, but sometimes the rumbling wakes me up in the middle of the night. i'm not sure if the trains speed more during the night, but there are times the whole building shakes...
Posted by: powderhouse at September 18, 2006 12:23 PM
I wouldn't live anywhere below Hicks on Joralemon. Subway is absolutely a problem, as is the sinking cobble stone Street. It wouldn't surprise me to see a whole in the middle of the Joralemon between Hicks and Willow one day.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 12:29 PM
assume you mean "hole" and all of Joralemon was just restored (finished last week) with cobblestones. kudos to the neighborhood for getting that done and not having the city put down the reg pavement like they wanted.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 1:56 PM
The only people who sing the praises of Joralemon Street below Hicks are those who live there and have a vested interest in the street and the brokers hired to sell the properties for them. I have looked at 3 houses on that particular part of the street which, although charming and certainly beautiful, is structurally a nightmare waiting to happen because of the incline and the subway problem. The proof here is that the house these people bought did not stand for 100 years even with the subway problem, it was falling down before they salvaged it, ditto the clapboard house around the corner on Columbia Street, now back on the market. The beams in the basement came away in your hands when you touched them! Buying houses there require constant maintenance and money which is why they are constantly on and off the market. They sell, to be sure, but the buyers move more often than not. Take a look in the basements of any of these properties, and I have, and you will see cracks in the walls and rubble on the ground, caused by constant tremors, caused by the subway. Don't forget you also have the rumble from the BQE. It's a double whammy and it affects that part of the street below Hicks. This is why others who live over subways in other streets of the Heights don't report the same problems. Hill descending + subway = structural problems. Someone with an IQ of 2 could figure that out.
Posted by: anonymous at September 18, 2006 2:45 PM
There are so many residential buildings in NYC that are over subway lines. Take Eastern Parkway for instance, with all those elegant buildings between Underhill and Washington over the 2/3 subway. Is it noisy and are there structural issues there too, plus the traffic of Eastern Parkway itself?
Posted by: anon anon at September 18, 2006 3:05 PM
why on earth do you keep looking at houses on that street if you think it's such a nightmare?
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 3:46 PM
So what is the IQ of these people on the street that have the ability yo spend 2 and sometimes over $3M to live on Joralemon?
and if houses there always turn over - why was previous owner of this family's house owned from at least the 60's and
next door from the 70's?
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 4:18 PM
In answer to your question as to why I supposedly 'keep looking' at houses on the street if there are these problems: I was shown those three houses by a broker I was working with: they were all on sale during the same six month period and, most crucially, in our price range. After having seen the evidence of the problem in 3 separate houses, all in varying states of distress, which the broker was not honest enough to admit, we correctly deduced, which has subsequently been corroborated, that there were major problems with that part of the street because of structural problems caused by the subway and BQE and incline of the hill. We shortly stopped using that broker as we felt we were being duped. This assumption has been independently verified by a number of people we asked, brokers (of the honest variety) and inspectors who confirmed our suspicions. I do hope this answers your question. I offer as proof the fact that we now live in a townhouse in BH that is nowhere near there,nor over a subway, and which we will not need to hire dishonest brokers to sell, should we choose.
Posted by: anonymous at September 18, 2006 4:25 PM
I know of two people who have bought in that block. Both moved here from outside of country. Both sold within 4 years of purchase. Both made money. Although at the $2-3MM number, I think you have reached a top. I doubt anyone who lives in the Heights would pay that kind of money to move on that block. Only someone that does not know would.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 4:27 PM
yes, and all those houses from 1850 need restoring. who would have thunk it?
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 6:01 PM
It's you
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 8:10 PM
Funny post about selling their house to move to the slope because BH has no good restaurants. They OWN a restaurant in BH -- that's why they live there!
Posted by: Anonymous at September 18, 2006 8:22 PM
yeah, and the restaurant is called ben and jerry's....my kids love to eat dinner there all the time
Posted by: anon at September 18, 2006 11:07 PM
Take it from someone who has lived in BH for over 10 Years, there are no good restaurants (save for Noodle Pudding) FG, Cobble Hill and carrol gardens offer much better fare. Even Red Hook has better food.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 12:02 AM
"Round Trip Brooklyn Heights With Luck"
I don't see how luck figures into it.
This guy shelled out serious money for a boarded up, unwanted, extremely narrow shell. Obviously spent a lot of money, not a regular renovation, had to install all new systems. The audience for this type of property is extremely limited to users who have deep pockets. Sounds a lot less like luck to me.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 3:57 AM
are you pointing out that the market for brooklyn heights houses (small, carriage, otherwise) is limited to users who have deep pockets? let me write that one down.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 10:29 AM
Re: Noise under Eastern Parkway. I used to live on the corner of Eastern and Classon in a 2nd floor apartment. I was never able to hear any subway noise, just the cars on the street. Eastern Parkway is so wide that perhaps the subway runs underneath the street, sidewalk, and setback, thus avoiding the noise and vibrations. I also used to live 1/2 a block from the BQE. The house shook and the thrum of passing cars and trucks was constant.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 11:24 AM
could not agree more than restaurants in BH are horrible, with a few exceptions. I've lived in BH for 10 years and am staying, but I often ask myself why...
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 3:04 PM
I know that couple and can say that they wanted to try something different. Many people wouldn't take that chance to try somerthing new. They were dilligent and lucky and their hard work paid off. I personally thought it was a nice story. There aren't that many deals out there anymore but still a few if you look hard enough.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 19, 2006 8:53 PM
Yes, the BH resturant scene is dim. BUT living without drunk assholes under your window at night screaming well, i'll take it. It's great to have the walk home after a nice dinner in the surrounding neighborhoods. Keeps us thin!!
Posted by: Anonymous at September 20, 2006 11:10 AM
Sour Grapes. Joralemon St is one of the most beautiful in BHs. Regarding the subway, for those it bothers...stay off our street.
Posted by: anonymous at September 22, 2006 8:41 PM
Sour Grapes. Joralemon St is one of the most beautiful in BHs. Regarding the subway, for those it bothers...stay off our street.
Posted by: anonymous at September 22, 2006 8:43 PM
Sour Grapes. Joralemon St is one of the most beautiful in BHs. Regarding the subway, for those it bothers...stay off our street.
Posted by: anonymous at September 22, 2006 8:43 PM
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